I feel sick...

So, I ordered 5 rat weanlings (30-40g), and 1 rat pup (20-30g) from my local mom and pop shop. I told them that frozen would be best for the weanlings, but I needed the pup to be live. Also, if they could only get live, that was alright. I would euthanize and freeze the ones I needed f/t. So they came in today, much to my dismay all being 20-30g pups. Evidently weanlings are a myth, and rats magically jump from 20-30, to small rats (60+g)...or at least that's what the local shops like me to believe. (sorry, end rant on that..)

Anyways, back when I worked at Petland, (I know, I know, devil) when we fed the snakes we would um...what's the word, thump them? Stun / kill them basically. I decided, due to my lack of CO2, and familiarity with that, that I would thump then freeze. Hopefully to remove as much long-term suffering as I could for the rats. I figured it was more humane than just sticking them in the freezer to slowly freeze to death.

So I fed my one live eater, and proceeded to thump the remaining rats. My lord...the first one was no problem, second I started to get a little queasy...by the last rat I had that "chills" feeling and my stomach was in knots.. I can't do that again...I don't understand, I used to do it without any issue back when I worked at the store (teen), but now it seems I've changed.

My stomach is still in knots...I don't even like rats. Ugh... I will be picking up a co2 tank this weekend...I don't think I can do that again... I feel like such a horrible person right now. *shivers*

I apologize for the mini rant / expression... Just needed to vent. :(

You made it farther than I would have. I hate feeding live and I can't imagine killing the rodents myself. :(

I'm surprised you couldn't get weaned rats from the mom and pop shop. Those are usually the places that have them. If most of yours will eat f/t I would suggest looking into buying a bag of frozen from a place that does bulk orders. If you can team up with someone in your area you could split shipping.

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Originally Posted by Kinra

You made it farther than I would have. I hate feeding live and I can't imagine killing the rodents myself. :(

I'm surprised you couldn't get weaned rats from the mom and pop shop. Those are usually the places that have them. If most of yours will eat f/t I would suggest looking into buying a bag of frozen from a place that does bulk orders. If you can team up with someone in your area you could split shipping.

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I know what you mean, that's why I went to the mom and pop shops. But alas, they both seem to look at me like I'm crazy when I say rat weanlings. One of them looked at me like that when I said rat pup. Same place gave me a pup when I asked for a fuzzy...and one of the employees gave me a large mouse when I asked for a small rat... oye.

I've thought about getting a bulk bag, it would be fine for my big girl because she's 2kg+ and will be on medium rats for the rest of her life more than likely. I was afraid of ordering bulk for my smaller ones because they grow so darn fast! I have a feeling my lesser pastel (currently at 268, was 89g when I got her mid August) will out grow the bag of weanlings before she gets halfway through them. She's a great feeder and grower. Those are the only two I have on f/t right now, my Mojave is a stubborn little poop that will only eat live. Also, my enchi boy isn't home yet, so I don't know how easily he will switch.

The shipping is what kills me, and the places that offer free shipping are all out of my rat sizes I need. Grrr...I think I'm just going to bite the bullet and go bulk in the next month or so, after I get Enchi home and see what kind of feeder he is.

I personally use cervical dislocation, which I feel is the most humane and quickest method. Place something like a screw driver, chopstick or butter knive behind the head and give a firm, quick yank at the base of the tail. They die instantly.

I split my f/t orders online with a friend of mine. Day of shipping she comes over at some point and picks up what she needs. If I wasn't able to do that... the local supplier is pricey, but still cheaper after shipping. Is there anyone around you that you could maybe split order with?

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Originally Posted by Valentine Pirate

I split my f/t orders online with a friend of mine. Day of shipping she comes over at some point and picks up what she needs. If I wasn't able to do that... the local supplier is pricey, but still cheaper after shipping. Is there anyone around you that you could maybe split order with?

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Not really :( I don't have any local friends that keep snakes unfortunately.

I guess I'll just have to buy more snakes to make it worth the bulk order ;)

Coleslaw: I've read about that, and that it is a great way to do it...I just had never done it, and I was afraid of messing up. After that experience though, I don't think I'll be doing any hands-on euthanasia anytime soon...

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Originally Posted by Coleslaw007

I personally use cervical dislocation, which I feel is the most humane and quickest method. Place something like a screw driver, chopstick or butter knive behind the head and give a firm, quick yank at the base of the tail. They die instantly.

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This.

And when theyre babies their skulls are like paper thin and a strong flick to the skull will kill them.

CO2 isnt as an effective method for killing baby rats. Their lungs dont need as much oxygen so you may gas them an *think* theyre dead when they really arent.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

This.

And when theyre babies their skulls are like paper thin and a strong flick to the skull will kill them.

CO2 isnt as an effective method for killing baby rats. Their lungs dont need as much oxygen so you may gas them an *think* theyre dead when they really arent.

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Is there any information about what age CO2 starts working properly? I assumed weanlings no longer under the mothers belly would be susceptible to CO2, or more like small rats?

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

Is there any information about what age CO2 starts working properly? I assumed weanlings no longer under the mothers belly would be susceptible to CO2, or more like small rats?

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Im not really sure. I was just repeating that so you knew why it might not be working on them if you tried it. PM satomi, she knows alot more than me about this stuff and what size is safe to gas them at.

Tiffany, are there any reptile shows near you? I get all my rats there. For 4 snakes, it takes up a relatively small part of my freezer :D I've done the mom and pop stores, but the quality isn't so great. And shipping costs have scared me away from ordering online. I completely understand why you had issues euthanizing them, I would cry :(

Isn't bludgeoning/stunning pretty inhumane? Anyways I couldn't even throw away the f/t rat pup that my snake didn't eat... I had to bury it! I just couldn't imagine throwing an animal into a trash can or just flushing them :P

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Originally Posted by barbie.dragon

Isn't bludgeoning/stunning pretty inhumane? Anyways I couldn't even throw away the f/t rat pup that my snake didn't eat... I had to bury it! I just couldn't imagine throwing an animal into a trash can or just flushing them :P

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Well, the way I see it is such; I would rather be hit in the head and knocked out, or killed, than freeze to death slowly. I wasn't trying to say what I did was humane, just more humane than sticking them straight in the freezer.


Kristen, there is a repticon that comes every 4 months or so about 45mins from me. I got some rats there last time they came. I plan on getting more in December. My girl grew a lot faster than I anticipated lol also, picked up 3 more bps since then...oops ;)
Honestly I'm not sure I want to buy from them on a regular basis though. The quality was subpar in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by barbie.dragon

Isn't bludgeoning/stunning pretty inhumane? Anyways I couldn't even throw away the f/t rat pup that my snake didn't eat... I had to bury it! I just couldn't imagine throwing an animal into a trash can or just flushing them :P

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Not at all if you do it right.

Freezing is DEFINETLY not a humane method.

I know how your are feeling. When I first got started with BPs, I had to do something similar. HATED it! Now we raise our own rats for those that still eat live and use CO2 for the rest of our rats. I was able to get through it a lot easier when I realized it is just the circle of life thing and that this was strictly to feed my BPs. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

Kristen, there is a repticon that comes every 4 months or so about 45mins from me. I got some rats there last time they came. I plan on getting more in December. My girl grew a lot faster than I anticipated lol also, picked up 3 more bps since then...oops ;)
Honestly I'm not sure I want to buy from them on a regular basis though. The quality was subpar in my opinion.

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:( Awww, then you really are kinda stuck. I keep hoping to find someone local who raises their own and has a surplus :D Wishful thinking....

For me the way to do the smaller rats and most all mice is this:

A quick but not overly hard thump to the skull, the idea is to stun it momentarily or at least slow it down a bit. Then you grasp the tail firmly near the base, NOT the tip. Place your thumb and forefinger on each side of the neck just behind the head. Once you have a good grip on the neck, yank the tail away from the hand holding the neck really quickly. It will be a small, faint pop, and it's all over.

I tried using a pencil or something and doing it, but it never seemed to work like everyone said. I'd end up with squealing rats or mice flopping around half paralyzed. It almost killed me. But, once I learned to do it by holding the neck between my fingers and then pulling with the other hand, I almost never have that happen. Maybe once out of every 30, as opposed to one out of every 4 or 5 when i was trying the pencil trick. However, this method will also get you bitten if you fail to do a little head thump, so if you can't manage that, then go with CO2.

I can do this with mice from fuzzy to adult. And rats from fuzzy to weanling. I'm not to comfortable trying it over weanling size, but I'm sure it could be done.

Gale

Never feel badly about taking a life it shouldn't be easy. The concern about doing it right and humanely is noble and my hats off to you for being so concerned about this. How we treat feeders (animals in general) describes us as people. A person capable of planned cruelty to an animal makes me wonder what else they are able to do as well. Not a person I want to know.

I would suggest that you may find it easier to order in rodents, I believe anyone feeding rodents should euthanize some at one point so they understand what they are responsible for. That said if you can find frozen it will likely make your life easier. I would suggest looking on Kijiji or craigs list for snake people and either message directly asking about frozen feeders or post an inquiry of your own. It is likely that there is a small local person whom has or brings in feeders that you can buy from or piggyback on an order.

Talk to the rodent vendor at the next show. Maybe they are close enough to pick up orders between shows.

My guy will deliver any size rodent order for $15 every Friday. Plus they are fresh killed the day before.

They supply the zoo, some local pet stores, the raptor rehab. Try calling around to see if you can find a breeder.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Never feel badly about taking a life it shouldn't be easy. The concern about doing it right and humanely is noble and my hats off to you for being so concerned about this. How we treat feeders (animals in general) describes us as people. A person capable of planned cruelty to an animal makes me wonder what else they are able to do as well. Not a person I want to know.

I would suggest that you may find it easier to order in rodents, I believe anyone feeding rodents should euthanize some at one point so they understand what they are responsible for. That said if you can find frozen it will likely make your life easier. I would suggest looking on Kijiji or craigs list for snake people and either message directly asking about frozen feeders or post an inquiry of your own. It is likely that there is a small local person whom has or brings in feeders that you can buy from or piggyback on an order.

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I could not have said this better myself. There is nothing wrong with feeling badly about killing a feeder animal and I'd think you cruel and unusual if you DIDN'T feel bad. I also give you a lot of credit for trying to be as humane as possible. A life is a life no matter how small.

I buy f/t rodents from Layne Labs - www.laynelabs.com. I can order in nearly any amount and in any sizes I want (and they are excellent quality!). I rebag the rodents when I recieve them into groupls of 5-10 in small but sturdy freezer bags. I put those bags into a gallon sized freezer bag. The biggest enemy to f/t rodents is air. Continually opening and closing the bag allows them to be exposed to too much air and they'll freezer burn. Bagging them this way allows me to keep them up to 8-12 months! That makes it well worth the shipping costs since I can buy a 6-8 month supply. I use a spare freezer to keep them - a small apartment-sized freezer works really well and is relatively inexpensive. :gj:

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

Well, the way I see it is such; I would rather be hit in the head and knocked out, or killed, than freeze to death slowly. I wasn't trying to say what I did was humane, just more humane than sticking them straight in the freezer.


Kristen, there is a repticon that comes every 4 months or so about 45mins from me. I got some rats there last time they came. I plan on getting more in December. My girl grew a lot faster than I anticipated lol also, picked up 3 more bps since then...oops ;)
Honestly I'm not sure I want to buy from them on a regular basis though. The quality was subpar in my opinion.

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I wasn't saying you we're doing anything bad (you didn't insinuate this but I'm just clarifying just in case :))
But the others touched up on this, cervical dislocation is the best if done right. But I can't do it ever. Layne labs allows smaller orders, but try to find a local breeder. They will most likely have rats they'll sell you. I have a nice local breeder and the breeder I bought my snake from is an hour and a half away but he gave me about 3-4 months supply of f/t for $20. Which was way cheaper than buying from anywhere!