Heat Tape?

I recently bought a huge plastic storage bin for my female ball python. I plan to move her into it as soon as I can so she'll have plenty of room to grow, and I hear heat tape is what's typically used for that type of enclosure(I can't use a tank because it would be way too heavy for me to move and clean). I just wanted to verify that it's completely safe for the snake and the plastic won't melt? How much/how big of a piece do I need - does a certain size provide a certain amount of heat? If you can recommend me any specific brands or sites that'd be great.
The tub is probably about 30-40 gallon, looking to heat it efficiently and just enough that an adult ball python would need.

heat tape is a bit of a slippery term, there is heat cable and heat films tape could be either.

NO heat source can should be used UNREGULATED

Typically in UTH that do not need to be wired I'd recommend ultratherm or lately zoo med *I think* (or kane) they are restricted heat and under no circumstances get hot enough to melt plastic. They max at 100ºF too hot to be use with out a regulator but not hot enough that if it failed it would be a huge issue.

Flexwatt is another carbon element (same as uths) but it comes un wired and needs to be wired it also gets VERY hot unregulated and it is not recommended to ever be used with out control the manufacturer states it should not be run over 100ºF but it will exceed 160º unregulated. In the case of a failure it can have steep consequences.

Heat cable or rope is coated wire that gets hot. It is wired and water resistant so it can be easier to deal with if it might get damp or splashed upon. It also gets quite hot and unregulated could cause severe problems.

The easiest for a single enclosure is a UTH I personally like the ultratherms solid and dependable and they run cooler than most so T-stat failure is not such a huge problem.

UTH = undertank heater? So those are safe for plastic bins as well?
What does it mean to 'regulate' the heat source?

Regulate by buying a thermostat or dimmer switch. Keeps the heat source at the temp you need it to be to be safe for your baby!

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

So, just to be clear, heat tape/UTH/heat cable is NOT going to increase your ambient temps by more than a degree or two, especially in a tub as enormous as 30-40 gallons. 41 quarts is the size I use for my full-grown females (2500g+), and many of them would be perfectly content in a 32-qt. as adults. If you have a hatchling, a tub that size could end up being a nightmare to clutter up enough for her to feel secure and to maintain proper temps in.

Yes UTH=under tank heater
Flexwatt = carbon heating element

These are all carbon heat elements in different configurations. The base tech is all the same however.

Example of a UTH http://beanfarm.com/product_info.php?products_id=5577

Regulators,

Dimmer (rheostat) they type used for home lighting. The simplest type they need absolutely stable room temps to work if the room varies the temp does too.

Thermostats vary the heat based on a reading from a probe (thermal sensor) that is placed on or near the heat source. they come in two basic varieties.

On/off type this is a dead basic type. It will run full power until the probe is over the temp set on the thermostat and shut down the heat until the probe cools below the set point then it starts over again. They do best in reasonably stable rooms temps with low power heating elements (like an ultratherm that do not get too hot too quickly) and heavy enclosures (that do not heat or cool quickly) The should be used in conjunction with a good or know accuracy thermometer as they have poor accuracy on their own. (viv electronics, johnson, ranco are the best there are many others of poorer quality)

Proportional thermostats these in basic function keep the probe at the point programmed into the thermostat. The method they use varies but basically they if set to 90ºF they heater stays basically at 90ºF all the time never going cold or hot. Constant even heat. They have accurate probe temps so lesser quality thermometers or unknown ones can be used and checked against the probe reading for accuracy. They are the best on the market. There are a number some with the most basic function (Viv, electronics and helix) and some with advanced control and reporting (ecozone and herpkeeper) and the most safety features and best price (Herpstat my personal recommendation the safest and cheapest on the market...)

ALL HEAT SOUCES NEED TO BE REGULATED!!!!

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Yes UTH=under tank heater
Flexwatt = carbon heating element

These are all carbon heat elements in different configurations. The base tech is all the same however.

Example of a UTH http://beanfarm.com/product_info.php?products_id=5577

Regulators,

Dimmer (rheostat) they type used for home lighting. The simplest type they need absolutely stable room temps to work if the room varies the temp does too.

Thermostats vary the heat based on a reading from a probe (thermal sensor) that is placed on or near the heat source. they come in two basic varieties.

On/off type this is a dead basic type. It will run full power until the probe is over the temp set on the thermostat and shut down the heat until the probe cools below the set point then it starts over again. They do best in reasonably stable rooms temps with low power heating elements (like an ultratherm that do not get too hot too quickly) and heavy enclosures (that do not heat or cool quickly) The should be used in conjunction with a good or know accuracy thermometer as they have poor accuracy on their own. (viv electronics, johnson, ranco are the best there are many others of poorer quality)

Proportional thermostats these in basic function keep the probe at the point programmed into the thermostat. The method they use varies but basically they if set to 90ºF they heater stays basically at 90ºF all the time never going cold or hot. Constant even heat. They have accurate probe temps so lesser quality thermometers or unknown ones can be used and checked against the probe reading for accuracy. They are the best on the market. There are a number some with the most basic function (Viv, electronics and helix) and some with advanced control and reporting (ecozone and herpkeeper) and the most safety features and best price (Herpstat my personal recommendation the safest and cheapest on the market...)

ALL HEAT SOUCES NEED TO BE REGULATED!!!!

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Okay, thank you for all the info!

I've been keeping her in a 20 gallon tank with an undertank heater. She has a thermometer, but I didn't know a thermostat was important as well. ._.;; I just looked at the tutorial on how to set up a storage tub for a snake. Seems easy enough so I will try that. I hope PetCo sells thermostats, otherwise I will order online.

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Originally Posted by skinnyrascal

I hope PetCo sells thermostats, otherwise I will order online.

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Our local ones do, if you like to pay $45 for a $30 thermostat...

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Our local ones do, if you like to pay $45 for a $30 thermostat...

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Haha, that's lame. But online I'd have to pay shipping anyway...

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Originally Posted by skinnyrascal

Haha, that's lame. But online I'd have to pay shipping anyway...

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Go get a hydrofarm on amazon. 30$ shipped

PLEASE look at the herpstat intro for 100$ it is much better than on off types for the situation. Hydrofarms IMO need to be coupled with an accurate thermometer as they are have such poor accuracy on their own. (4ºF +/-) . Good thermometers cost more that the difference between the thermostats. It is better than the T-stat shuffle, buy cheap and shuffle back for better in a month or two.

I would unplug your UTH until you have a thermostat

What are your temps hot side cool side and the ambient temp? I would NOT turn off you UTH if the hot spot is 1/2 way correct (under 100ºF) I would do the best to balance it until you get a T-stat. My snakes would not last long with no heat in my rooms (60ºF today) the concern is a burn but not all UTH get to the same temp especially when you look at the effect room temps can have.

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Originally Posted by martin82531

I would unplug your UTH until you have a thermostat

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X2!

No thermostat=risk of serious injury to animal, and fire to house!

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Originally Posted by AdamF

X2!

No thermostat=risk of serious injury to animal, and fire to house!

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So if I had no T-stat you would be suggesting a royal python could live for a week or two at a temp of 60ºF or less (it is now 53ºF in my snake room)? REALLY? Especially if I was using an ultratherm that when the room temp is 60º it only heats to 87ºF MAX. The advise you are offering is just as dangerous to the snake as the reverse. I personally do not offer advise that could kill someone's pet when I don't have enough information to know what the exact situation is.

I have a rescue in currently because of irresponsible advise from a forum (could be this one... I didn't ask or want to know) and you have just offered the same advise. Ball Pythons do not do well with no heat and temps in the high 50ºs for weeks... they get RI and very very ill the owner of this particular snake had a ultratherm heat pad... (it has to be replaced it does not cannot hold a warm spot to 90º not enough power. Should it be regulated yes. but...)

The point is I do not nor is there enough information to offer advise with no knowledge of the OPs situation and yet still people are.

X2 Get the Hydrofarm Tstat on amazon. I bought it for 28$ with free shipping. Far as I can tell it's the best deal around and it works just fine.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

So if I had no T-stat you would be suggesting a royal python could live for a week or two at a temp of 60ºF or less (it is now 53ºF in my snake room)? REALLY? Especially if I was using an ultratherm that when the room temp is 60º it only heats to 87ºF MAX. The advise you are offering is just as dangerous to the snake as the reverse. I personally do not offer advise that could kill someone's pet when I don't have enough information to know what the exact situation is.

I have a rescue in currently because of irresponsible advise from a forum (could be this one... I didn't ask or want to know) and you have just offered the same advise. Ball Pythons do not do well with no heat and temps in the high 50ºs for weeks... they get RI and very very ill the owner of this particular snake had a ultratherm heat pad... (it has to be replaced it does not cannot hold a warm spot to 90º not enough power. Should it be regulated yes. but...)

The point is I do not nor is there enough information to offer advise with no knowledge of the OPs situation and yet still people are.

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I am not commenting on OP situation. I am stating simply, "no thermostat with heat tape is high risk". Period. Now if you ask me, "Should I risk killing my snake by 53 degree temps, or by burning him, and possibly my house?". I cannot give you a real good answer to that question. Can anyone?

Furthermore, before one "rescues" a pet (any pet), one should be sure the situation they are bringing the animal into, is actually good for the animal. If you wish to rescue BPs with the only options being over heat them, or freeze them, I suggest you re-consider rescue efforts, until you have proper set-up. The OP asked the question about heat control, and we answered.

Good luck to you...and the poor snake

I run fully controlled better than most. Exact temp control over ambient warm and cool accurately too. I actually own an accurate thermometer. Your advise if I had a unregulated UTH (I don't) is to turn off the heat. Good thinking. Apparently you don't know that UTHs Flexwatt are available in different wattages. I guess you never heard of LOW density carbon elements...

So AdamF what exactly are the temps of the OPs enclosure? What UTH do they have? What are the ambient room temps? Before you offer advise that could kill the OPs snake don't you think you should KNOW WHAT THE SITUATION IS??? NO, just give advise without having any facts and who cares if it kills their snake it isn't yours right? Great advise there. The EXACT SAME advise that gave the snake RI so badly it is blowing blood bubbles.

So about a month ago did you tell someone that they should unplug a UTH that had no T-stat that wasn't getting hot enough? Well if you did it was great advise, the snake is on deaths door, good going.

The op has not mentioned the temps the ambients or anything at all, and yet you still suggest to kill all the heat even if the heat may not be that hot (the max temp on the 17" flexwatt low density is 88º in a room that is 80ºF)

Offering advise with out having the information needed is IRRESPONSIBLE. It is DIRECTLY responsible for the snake in my care with sever RI bad advise from a form. The EXACT advise you have just gave. Try not to kill other peoples snakes with your poor advise.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

I run fully controlled better than most. Exact temp control over ambient warm and cool accurately too. I actually own an accurate thermometer. Your advise if I had a unregulated UTH (I don't) is to turn off the heat. Good thinking. Apparently you don't know that UTHs Flexwatt are available in different wattages. I guess you never heard of LOW density carbon elements...

So AdamF what exactly are the temps of the OPs enclosure? What UTH do they have? What are the ambient room temps? Before you offer advise that could kill the OPs snake don't you think you should KNOW WHAT THE SITUATION IS??? NO, just give advise without having any facts and who cares if it kills their snake it isn't yours right? Great advise there. The EXACT SAME advise that gave the snake RI so badly it is blowing blood bubbles.

So about a month ago did you tell someone that they should unplug a UTH that had no T-stat that wasn't getting hot enough? Well if you did it was great advise, the snake is on deaths door, good going.

The op has not mentioned the temps the ambients or anything at all, and yet you still suggest to kill all the heat even if the heat may not be that hot (the max temp on the 17" flexwatt low density is 88º in a room that is 80ºF)

Offering advise with out having the information needed is IRRESPONSIBLE. It is DIRECTLY responsible for the snake in my care with sever RI bad advise from a form. The EXACT advise you have just gave. Try not to kill other peoples snakes with your poor advise.

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Kindly re-read my (and your!) posts. I advised ONLY that any UTH source should be regulated, period. Also, the OP said he couldn't use a tank, and had to sue plastic tub. In addition, a hot spot of "100 or so", can still lead to RI for snake in a room with 60 degree ambient temp. What temp is the cool side? A UTH warms only a spot. The advice from any on this forum would be:

To properly care for a BP they require a warm spot of 88-92 and a cool spot 78-80. However you achieve this without fire risk is up to you.

Can a BP manage at a low of 76 from time to time, or a hot spot of 93-94? Of course they can, but nobody here will endorse a 100 degree unregulated UTH in a room with 60 degree ambient. FYI I have experience with UTH, Flexwatt and over head heating. Even low wattage FW can start a fire if unregulated.

I wrote "an unregulated heat source is high risk" So did another who responded. The only way to eliminate that risk is to unplug it. Frankly, without knowing the ambient temps, and humidity, the whole situation is bad. For the last time, an unregulated heat source, especially under plastic tubs, is ill advised and dangerous, EVEN IF THE SNAKE CAN GET SICK.

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Originally Posted by AdamF

X2! (I would unplug your UTH until you have a thermostat)

No thermostat=risk of serious injury to animal, and fire to house!

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Sound like no heat to me. Apparently you still fail to understand not every product and situation is the same. There are products on the market DESIGNED to run not beyond 100ºF most low density do. Given the loss to ambient temps plastic insulation and substrate they often produce interior temps that are below 92º and yet the advise is the same no heat. Yes all heat sources need to be regulated in fact after the amount of rescues (160+) I have seen I would suggest that this be proportional or accurate thermostats only but that is me. But the fact that with absolutely no information a dramatic change like unplugging a heat source should not be suggested. We do not know ambient temps interior surface temps or anything at all. we don't know if there is a secondary or anything about the set up.

The snake I have in rehab was in a tank in that case and had a UTH and che the advise turn them off until you get a dimmer and thermostat. The fact the hot spot surface temp was 88 or below and the cool side was 76 or below whom ever gave the advise didn't know or care. So the 11 year old kid did the 'right' thing and too temps that were too cool and went to stupid cold. Than then started saving for a thermostat. We got called in by the parent asking for help the kid is frantic and seriously freaking about the state of the pet the snake is despondent and has no strength to hold its body up. We evaluated the enclosure and set it up correcting the issues and gave him a rehab snake from a previous place to look after while we try to save his snake.

I am sorry I have come on strong but it makes me seriously pissed when advise is tossed about that is potentially very dangerous for the animal with out anyone mentioning that it is and with no knowledge of the situation or conditions at all. There is nothing intelligent to recommend with out information. For all we know the OP might have a Kane pad with a rheostat built in or a pad with resisters to cut power to the element (ultratherm) and as more and more companies recognize that unrestricted temps are not safe they will (hopefully) be more and more low density self regulating systems (still should have a t-stat) but the risks of both burn and fire are dropped to very low.

technology is changing it is time to adapt.

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Originally Posted by martin82531

I would unplug your UTH until you have a thermostat

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I understand the well-meaning behind this, but my house stays around 65 F this time of year and I do not think that would be good for Kleo.
The only other option would be to use the handwarmers I have for emergency, but those would be unregulated as well so probably not much difference.

So far she's been well and healthy for 7 months under the conditions I've had her, so I believe she will continue to thrive for another day or two until I set up her new enclosure. But thank you.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

What are your temps hot side cool side and the ambient temp? I would NOT turn off you UTH if the hot spot is 1/2 way correct (under 100ºF) I would do the best to balance it until you get a T-stat. My snakes would not last long with no heat in my rooms (60ºF today) the concern is a burn but not all UTH get to the same temp especially when you look at the effect room temps can have.

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Normally I've only been able to keep it at 65 - 70 on the cool side and 80 or so on the hot side. I moved Kleo's favorite hide to the middle so at least she is getting enough heat for now (she has never refused a meal and always feels warm or room temp to the touch, not cold). She never even lays directly on the UTH since I did that, so I think she's safe from burns for now. But that's the biggest reason I looked into upgrading her enclosure with more space and a larger heat pad.

The only thermostat PetCo carried was a Zilla one for $53 e.X;;; I just hope it works well! I kept the receipt just in case. Got a medium sized Zilla UTH to go with it.

If anything I know I'm at least doing better than PetCo...their BP tank had the humidity on the 'desert' range as usual, and one of the poor dears already had a sunken eye. Reptiles always seem to be the least of everyone's priority in most pet stores, it infuriates me.

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Originally Posted by skinnyrascal

Normally I've only been able to keep it at 65 - 70 on the cool side and 80 or so on the hot side. I moved Kleo's favorite hide to the middle so at least she is getting enough heat for now (she has never refused a meal and always feels warm or room temp to the touch, not cold). She never even lays directly on the UTH since I did that, so I think she's safe from burns for now. But that's the biggest reason I looked into upgrading her enclosure with more space and a larger heat pad.

The only thermostat PetCo carried was a Zilla one for $53 e.X;;; I just hope it works well! I kept the receipt just in case. Got a medium sized Zilla UTH to go with it.

If anything I know I'm at least doing better than PetCo...their BP tank had the humidity on the 'desert' range as usual, and one of the poor dears already had a sunken eye. Reptiles always seem to be the least of everyone's priority in most pet stores, it infuriates me.

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You are heading in the right direction, but if Kleo never lays on the hot spot, it means it's too hot. 70 Degrees on the cool side, and 80 on the hot side just cant work. If she lives through this either your temps are wrong, or she is the exception to the rule. What are you using to measure temps?

skinnyrascal I am glad you did not shut you heat down, you would have had all kinds of issues. :colbert:

Ideally the temps should be close to 90ºF for the warm side and 80ºF cool side and the ambient air temps you have a bit more flexibility 78-85ºF range that can be quite difficult in a cool room. I would suggest you get a probed thermometer especially as the zilla T-stats are not reliable temp wise. You will need a decient thermometer to help get it set. Be very careful with the zilla pad it will deliver very hot temps with no regulation. Not all pads will but the zilla is not among the new generation of them.

For a thermometer I would suggest the cheapest digital unit you can fine. All the inexpensive ones are about the same accuracy (+/-2ºF or worse) and this is just not good enough really. The solution is either spend buckets of cash (buy a better T-stat first) or buy a few (4 or more) the same and check them against each other typically you will find two that read the same these usually are close to correct. This is the only way to get cheap and 1/2 way accurate at the same time.
something like this... I usually buy 10-20 at a time eliminate 3-6 as incorrect and the rest become extras. I replace them at the first sign of damage to the cords or probe.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-LCD-...item439ed521dd

I am not a fan of the zilla T-stat (using the term loosely) they often have a great deal of back lash (swing) and hysteresis. Keep a very close eye on the temps with this unit you may see extreme spikes especially with a higher wattage pad.

Skinny,

I am also glad you did not burn anything down. Get your temps regulated, and use reliable means to measure them. Often times if a BP gets sick/stressed out from poor husbandry, by the time you notice it, it could be too late.

Many BP care sites that are NOT this forum, will tell you 65 ambient, and nothing warmer than 80-85, will is not adequate for a BP.


Good luck