Help please A little long....

Well a little frustrated... for 2 reasons
{Background} About 4 weeks ago I bought my youngest son a Ball Python for his birthday. The 4 1/2-5 foot 15 year old ball, 55 gallon tank, hide, bowl, heat lamp, screen top, UTH, 2 frozen rats, bad of repti bark.... Got a great deal. I have had snakes in the past (about 25 years ago) , no big deal, keep them warm when it is cold, moist when they are about to shed, feed them, yadda yadda yadda.... Well figured I needed to do some research as my snake keeping skills were REAL rusty!! Went to this message board, asked a lot of questions, got lots of great advice, took me a little bit but finally figured out the UTH was not working when I put the probe on the basking side. I decided I had to replace the UTH and also to get a thermostat so I was able to regulate it a lot better. (I had bought a thermometer/hygrometer too) I wanted to do this right!

{Reason #1 for frustration} I ordered from Amazon, paid for expedited shipping so it was supposed to be here in 2 days. Amazon did their part and it got to my post office in 2 days, my mail carrier is a clueless ditz though! Instead of being NORMAL and honking or pulling into my drive to alert me the package had come, she leaves me a card. By the time she gets back to the post office after her "rounds" the lobby is closed so no way I can pick it up have to wait to the next day! GRRRR some people have NO common sense! She could have left it in a bag on the mail box, she could have honked, she could have pulled into my drive.... Normally when people pay for faster shipping it means they want it....FASTER!?!?!?!?!

{Reason #2 for frustration} Well I get everything all set up, all set to the proper temps have the basking temp and the cool temp and the humidity is 50-52% and now the snake HATES it!! It does not go into the hide, even though I lowered the "optimal" temps down to 82°F under the hide. the snake stays on the "cool" side, that I lowered to 72°F {had to do this or the snake was just"pacing" the tank all the time or stayed wrapped on it "tree". The cool side hide I put in, the snake just moved it out of the way and refused to use it at all.... At a loss as to what to do!

Is it possible the snake had been without "proper" temperatures for so long {don't know this for a fact, but the guy it was bought from was not too knowledgeable, he said so himself, and was only selling the snake because his buddy that he was "watching" the snake for had abandoned it and this guy had not heard from the buddy in over 6 months} that it does not like the proper temps? Should I up the temps to where they are supposed to be and force the snake to adjust? Leave the temps real low, where the snake will go into his hide, and increase them a few degrees at a time until they are at proper levels?

I was told when I bought it, the snake is 15 years old, the UTH was always left plugged into the repti- therm, the dial was on all the way. The repti-therm does work ( I tested it with the heat lamp) but the UTH showed no signs of life when plugged into the repti- therm or when plugged straight into an outlet (Found this out when I bought the thermometer/hygrometer and put the probe to the glass under the hide) so I don't know for how long it has not been working. The heat lamp has a 200 watt bulb in it, the heat lamp is on 24/7 (he said he always kept it on). The snake has had no problems eating the past 4 weeks. When I posted pictures asking if it was too thin, people said it looked to be healthy.

Has anyone ever encountered anything like this before? I am open to suggestions. I don't want to stress the snake, but I want it to be healthy, warm, safe, whatever I can do to keep it in its best interest. I normally do not get an animal that I don't have a lot of background information on, but my son just fell in love with the snake, loves to hold it and play with it, loves to feed it, every night when he says goodnight to the snake, the snake yawns.... (So cute I must get a video of it)

I am open to suggestions. Thanks in advance for any help you may be able to give.

You need to provide proper temperatures, 90 hot side, 80 cool side. Your snake will regulate between the two, but they need the choices.

you seem to know what you are doing... just set everything up with proper temps (90 high 80 low and place temp probe on the heat source not in the tank) and humidity and leave the snake alone for a week or so.... try feeding and just let your snake settle in and get comfortable....


some snakes like hides.... some don't..... in my experience only hatchlings and juveniles like hides, my adults tend to just lay around.....

some balls like to pretend they are green tree pythons..... and some don't lol

and post office workers are lazy.... nothing we can do to help you there

Wow thats quite a story! Im surprised nobody has posted anything yet you should definetly be able to find an answer here. I personally think your temps might be the problem. You didnt specify what the warm side of you're enclosure is. The warm side should be about 90-92 degrees, and your cool side or ambient temperature should be about 80-82 degrees. You can of course provide hides on both sides and the snake will thermo-regulate. Snakes, especially Ball Pythons are picky sometimes.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

You need to provide proper temperatures, 90 hot side, 80 cool side. Your snake will regulate between the two, but they need the choices.

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You beat me to it!

Is the 200 watt bulb on, your using it?

If so, do you know what surface temps it's creating? The most accurate way to check it is with a ir temp gun.

Where is the main beam of heat hitting the cage floor? Is it pointed to where the snake likes to lay?

Pics could be very helpful.

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Place the tstat probe on the heat source and the thermometer probe in the tank just under the substrate.

Thanks for the answers so far! I guess in my frustration I did leave some things out... So as soon as all the new equipment was set up:
UTH with thermostat probe between it and the bottom of the tank
thermometer with "outside temperature" probe stuck to the bottom of the tank over the UTH and unit on the "cool" side.

I used these 2 threads to help get it right:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...p-w-pics-*DUW*

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...e-Basics-*DUW*

For the thermostat, I bought:
http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR...upplies_text_y

For the UTH I bought:
http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-ReptiT...I20K8X9PB6TOPX

For the thermometer/hygrometer I bought:
http://www.amazon.com/Chaney-Instrum...ywords=acurite


So after all this was installed, here is what I had
Under hide: 92°F
Cool side: 84°F
Humidity: 52%
The snake spent the next 2 full days in its tree. I lowered the under hide temp to 87°F, it still won't go in. Right now it is curled up in a coil on the "cool" side not in a hide, right next to the water bowl, the cool side I had lowered to 78°F just to get the snake out of the tree...
I guess I will get the temps and humidity to where they are supposed to be ie: 92°F hot side under hide, 82°F cool side and 50-60% humidity and hope the snake gets used to it and starts back to using its hide. Have to figure out a way to stop it from flipping over the other hide (plastic tub) I just put in for it on the cool side. It never had one before, only the half log on the "hot" side

Thanks so far for the answers!

Try for an 88 hot spot and 78 cool spot. I have one snake that is picky about his temps being higher then these. These temps are acceptablr and my snake eats, drinks, digests, and thermo regulates just fine :)

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How are you warming the cool side? The lamp?

I Have a feeling your surface temps are higher than you think.

A pic would be really great.

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Originally Posted by KMG

How are you warming the cool side? The lamp?

I Have a feeling your surface temps are higher than you think.

A pic would be really great.

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Yes lamp

I will get a pic as soon as I find my camera

I am brand new to keeping snakes so minimal advice but I can say two things. One, I love my infrared thermometer for figuring out surface temps. Two, if I was a snake who had spent who knows how long in a cold tank and all of a sudden the temperatures where raised I probably would spend a couple days lounging in a tree. Think humans basking at the beach. So if your surface temps around the tank are good maybe the snake is just enjoying its new great home. And it obviously thinks hides are for wimps.

Also if he is a full grown adult he might not want to use a hids. My adult kind of just lay around sprawled out or balled up as someone else suggested. And it is not completely unusual to see BPs climb. Its not common but does defrinetly happen. I would set him up with the proper temps and let him be. He'll figure out what he wants. It doesn't seem like your doing anything wrong.

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Originally Posted by PorcelainxDoll

Try for an 88 hot spot and 78 cool spot. I have one snake that is picky about his temps being higher then these. These temps are acceptablr and my snake eats, drinks, digests, and thermo regulates just fine :)

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X2 while I just got my snake she would not go to the warm side until I lowered it to 86-87F (per request of the breeder) and now she happily thermoregulates. My snake also likes the cool side to be around 78-79 degrees. She just likes cooler temperatures I guess.

I tend to agree that your temps may be higher than you think BUT I also agree with PorcelainXDoll...the if the snake seems to prefer it, the hot side can be cooler than 90 without hurting anything. Even if you drop the hot side to 86, he will be fine.

Here are some pictures I took today.

This is the tank, 55 Gallon. The log hide is the only one in there because he just flipped the plastic one I put in, he would not use it. The log hide is above the UTH. When I go back to the pet store, I will buy another log hide to put on the cool side, he does not flip them.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...n/tankfull.jpg

I see the snake put some of his repti bark in his water... Have to clean it out :cool:

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/snomoon/tank.jpg

Here is the thermometer: top number is the probe under the log hide, left bottom number is cool side, right bottom number is humidity

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...n/thermohi.jpg

In a coil on cool side

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...oon/incoil.jpg



Showing him the rat

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...n/afterrat.jpg

After I took the lid off the top (some humidity escaped)

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2.../thermolow.jpg

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

If so, do you know what surface temps it's creating? The most accurate way to check it is with a ir temp gun.

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Where is the best place to get a ir temp gun?

I got my IR therm from Reptile Basics and my hides too.

I'm pretty new to snakes too but ours won't go near a log hide.

You can get a heat gun from Canadian Tire as well ;)

I can see why he wraps around that tree........... it is directly beneath the 200 watt heat lamp. That would make it pretty warm there .

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Originally Posted by mohawk

I can see why he wraps around that tree........... it is directly beneath the 200 watt heat lamp. That would make it pretty warm there .

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Good point!! Now why didn't I think of that??? Now I kind of feel pretty stupid.....

OK I have my new list started for my next purchases... ir heat gun and log hide for cool side. Snake was always in log hide until I started messing with the tank to make it "perfect" so I don't think it has a problem with them, just maybe me messing with the tank??

:cool: I cleaned out all the old repti bark too.... looked like it had not been cleaned out in a LONG time...Maybe I took away its scent? I know it smells better to me!

Thanks to all that gave advice! Maybe one day I will be knowledgeable to help someone else out.

A couple more questions if I can! The inside of the tank is streaked and has water spots on it, what would be the best way to clean? What can I use to disinfect? How often should I do the repti bark? Should I take it all out each time, or just do "spot" clean? Would Aspen be better?

Reptibark is fine. You can spot clean and do a full replacement every few months.If you do switch substrates I would recommend cypress over aspen, it holds humidity better.

I use healthy habitat, sold at petco i know, it is safe to use with your pet in the cage. I spray it on a towel then clean the tank. I like it and it smells nice. Using filtered drinking water, I buy it by the gallon, will not leave water marks on the glass.

From the pic it really looks like the log is to short for your snake to get under it. I just recently bought a new plastic hide from lllreptile and really like it. Is it possible that the plastic one you were trying to use was to small and getting flipped over by the snake trying to squeeze into it? Other members have posted pics of their snake lifting hides off the floor by trying to fit in them.

If you didn't actually see your snake playing with the hide I would put it back in and try to see how it gets flipped. These black ones are better than the logs for a few reasons.

Can be sanitized
Won't mold or mildew
Cheap
More secure feeling (one door, not a tunnel)

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/...lack-hide-box/

I forgot

This is the temp gun I have. It is cheap but has worked very well and uses regular 9 volt batteries, not a specialty battery.

Thank you for the pics. Many times its the best thing to help us help you.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o04_s00_i00

Skip the log hide and get plastic ones from reptile basics or make some heavier ones. I use kitty litter pans for my bigger guys that like hides.

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