Melted UTH Warning!

So, like most snake keepers, I use an UTH to boost the temps in my ball python's tank. I use a Zilla thermostat to keep the pad from getting too hot... or so I thought. Until one day I realized the thermometer over the UTH sky rocketed. I kept turning it down but the thermometer kept reading way too high so I unplugged it and checked it out. Lo and behold, I found the pad had melted off of the tank and down onto the floor burning a hole in the carpet! Of course I called Zoo Med to try to gain some understanding of what could have happened. Apparently the way I had it set up is wrong and I just wanted to pass this along to hopefully save someone else from a melted heat pad. I had the pad on the bottom of the tank. Inside the tank I had the thermostat probe and a thermometer probe placed directly on top of the heat pads location. Next I placed a layer of paper towels down to prevent my snake for laying directly on top of the pad. On top of the paper towels was a layer of Aspen bedding. Apparently the problem is the paper towels. The representative at Zoo med told me that the paper towels make the pad over heat and that's what caused it to melt.

So for anyone out there using heat pads, I have been told do not use paper towels, or newspaper.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36195246@N04/8097951589/

That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. What a ridiculous excuse. How on earth could the paper towels, from INSIDE the tank, on the OTHER SIDE OF THE GLASS, possibly cause the pad to melt? Think about this for a second. What probably caused your pad to melt was faulty wiring or a thermostat that was not working correctly. They just didn't want to have to replace it.

EDIT: Also, there are plenty of people on this forum that use under tank heat AND paper towels, that have never had a problem. I just can't believe that was the reason he gave you. RIDICULOUS! I would call them back and inform them that there is no possible way that the presence of paper towels on the OTHER SIDE OF THE GLASS caused the pad to melt. With that reasoning, aspen chips should cause it to melt just the same. In fact, ANY substance covering it should cause it to melt then. Please ask them for their "scientific" reasoning for that response. I'm dying to know.

Sorry, I just hate it when companies come up with stupid excuses. It's infuriating.

I'm sorry to say that is simply not true...

The real problem was your thermostat probe placement and the fact that the thermostat was a piece of junk.

A good thermostat will prevent this from happening. What substrate you use has absolutely nothing to do with this.

The problem was more likely the thermostat probe inside the enclosure than the paper towels. The thermoSTAT probe should be taped directly to the UTH outside the enclosure, the thermoMETER probe should be inside where you described. I use paper towels in every one of my enclosures and have no overheating issues whatsoever.

Actually there are a few issues here and those are not because of paper towel or newspaper that's what the person from customer service reads in their handbook.

Your problem are that you put the thermostat probe INSIDE the tank, and by doing so a lot of thing can go wrong, the snake can pee or tip his water bowl making the temps shoot up, he can also move the probe having the same effect.

Additionally when you are using a cheap thermostat you are also at greater risk for such incident.

If paper towel and news paper were a problem with any heat source it would be known ;)

My advice get a quality thermostat and place the probe DIRECTLY on the heat source between the heat source and the enclosure and not inside the tank.

I don't believe it was the paper towels... I've used zoomed heat pads and paper towels together for years.

Did you leave an air gap on the bottom of the UTH?

I'm really glad your snake is ok.

I much prefer paper towels and news paper over other substrates.
And the Zoomed excuse is ridiculously lame.

The issue is clearly the thermostat and probe placement inside the enclosure.
What you pay is what you get.
There's a reason why the Herpstat (minimum value of $99) is well advertised and used amongst keepers.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

Did you leave an air gap on the bottom of the UTH?

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Even that isn't necessary when using a good thermostat

The only time a UTH should overheat is if the the thermostat fails. Any other time the thermostat should kill power going to the UTH.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Even that isn't necessary when using a good thermostat

The only time a UTH should overheat is if the the thermostat fails. Any other time the thermostat should kill power going to the UTH.

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I'm just trying to understand how the incident happened. UTHs don't just melt even when they are left on full blast. Which leads me to believe it was sandwiched between the glass and the carpet. If the heat has no way to dissipate it will start to over heat.

Of course that thermostat is a piece of junk.

Probe placement has nothing to do with it either, the Tstat failed to shut down the heater at the set point plain and simple. Replace the Tstat and use a failsafe. A good t-stat has a much lower chance of failing and the failsafe will prevent over heating.

http://images9.fotki.com/v114/photos...drawing-vi.jpgHosted on Fotki

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cheap T-stats NEED a fail safe and most other should have one IMO the only ones that I would suggest it MIGHT be optional are the new higher end herpstats 1 or better as they have what amounts to a built in failsafe.

I only seen this happen when ther no air flow under the tank ( i melted some flexwatt befoer) but I got lucky andwhen it melted it stopped owrking at the same time ) but anytime you set a glass tank onto a surface that down not have a opening under it ( like a coin ot 2 you need to set it on something. I have in the pass used lego blocks on their side ( a couple of thme ) to allow air flow) and i even used small strips of wood anything that will give you the space ot let air flow under helps. and if on carpet a trickto prevent the carpet from getting burnt is as thin sheet of plywood. ( panellng) with some thing ot lift for air flow. this prevent the carpet from melting andgives a little better chance of the uth from failing ( seem like carpet will insulate the uth and cause it to run hotter .

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Originally Posted by mechnut450

I only seen this happen when ther no air flow under the tank ( i melted some flexwatt befoer) but I got lucky andwhen it melted it stopped owrking at the same time ) but anytime you set a glass tank onto a surface that down not have a opening under it ( like a coin ot 2 you need to set it on something. I have in the pass used lego blocks on their side ( a couple of thme ) to allow air flow) and i even used small strips of wood anything that will give you the space ot let air flow under helps. and if on carpet a trickto prevent the carpet from getting burnt is as thin sheet of plywood. ( panellng) with some thing ot lift for air flow. this prevent the carpet from melting andgives a little better chance of the uth from failing ( seem like carpet will insulate the uth and cause it to run hotter .

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But if the UTH is being regulated by a good thermostat this shouldn't happen even without any airflow. If heat starts to build up the thermostat detects it and reduces power going to UTH thereby preventing dangerous heat build up. People shouldn't be relying on air flow to keep their UTH's from burning up.

First - yeah, that advice from CS was crap. The reason that happened was because of your probe placement and the fact that you used a cheap, bad thermostat.

Second - I've been using ZooMed UTH pads for years with no incidents at all. The only thing I've had happen is that one of my pads just stopped heating up (after 4 years of use). And I use these pads inside homemade wooden cages. Granted, for extra safety I drill ventilation holes where the pad sits, but otherwise it's sandwiched between the vinyl flooring and the wood. And I leave the paper on the sticky side as well.

The main issue at hand is the thermostat. You NEED a good one, and the lowest I would recommend is a Johnson or Ranco. Do NOT go with Zilla or ZooMed unless they're backup or just for a short period like a car trip or QT.
Make sure you place the t-stat probe DIRECTLY onto the pad. I tape my probes right to the underside of the pad using foil tape, which can handle high heat better than most tapes out there. Remember, the STAT probe goes OUTside, and the METER probe goes INside. :)

As for the melted pad...only a short out and total failure would cause that. I've run those pads at full power, without t-stat control, on wood and plastic both for days straight to test them (empty cages and tubs, of course!) and a properly working pad could never even melt the tub plastic let alone itself, even at top power. So you either got one that shorted out and spiked horribly, or the pad somehow ran at much much higher than normal temps when uncontrolled. Either is rare.

It sucks that ZooMed didn't want to own up and replace the pad, but at least now you know what you can, and can't, do in the future. :)

I had a zoomed heat pad short out and catch fire a few weeks ago. I wouldn't say it's rare. You can google it and its happened to tons of people. A thermostat wouldn't be able to do anything in that situation.

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Originally Posted by CaGirl5

I had a zoomed heat pad short out and catch fire a few weeks ago. I wouldn't say it's rare. You can google it and its happened to tons of people. A thermostat wouldn't be able to do anything in that situation.

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If the probe is on the UTH itself it should as it will cut power before it gets that hot. It isn't 100% failsafe but most of the time a thermostat should catch things like that.

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Originally Posted by CaGirl5

I had a zoomed heat pad short out and catch fire a few weeks ago. I wouldn't say it's rare. You can google it and its happened to tons of people. A thermostat wouldn't be able to do anything in that situation.

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This is a good case for reptile specfic better T-stats (Herpstat,Helix,ecozone,herpkeeper,habistat •VE series• I am unsure about it is not mentioned in manual or specs...) If the probe were to be damaged in a short it still cuts power. Other units may when the probe is damages continue to power the pad. This is also a good case for a failsafe which will shut down the power in a short.

Probes should NEVER be inside enclosures

Just for the heck of it, I sandwiched a UTH between two pieces of glass and wrapped it in a big thick blanket (don't try this at home kids), left it on for hours, while it got super hot, nothing melted or caught fire. I'd say UTH was bad plain and simple. It shouldn't get hot enough to melt no matter the conditions. No I'm not saying it's acceptable to go without a thermostat because it will certainly get hot enough to cook your snake. And yeah a thermostat with a failsafe would have certainly come in handy here though. For half the price of one of the fancy thermostats you can get two of the Hydrofarms.

Sorry guys I posted this and have been completely offline since then. Thanks for all the replies!!!

Just to clear things up the tank and heater WERE lifted off the ground. No UTH sandwiching here.

And now thanks to all you lovely helpful people, I know the probe in the picture, should not be on the inside of the tank, like it was. :oops: But here is how it looked... The red wood underneath had the tank lifted off the ground. The small probe runs to a digital thermometer, the large one goes to the thermostat. You can see how the pad is melted off the tank and barely hanging on. The pic looks a little confusing cause you can see the wires that are running under the tank too.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me...q0jo2_1280.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me...q0jo1_1280.jpg

:agrees it is a thermostat problem:

Never had luck with Zoo Med UTHs myself. They either stopped working after 3 months or came unglued. Latest one I had, I came home and the pad was hanging from the tank stand with a hole in it and sparking. Been using a Zilla one since(7 mos.) with no problems.

That's what happened to mine. I bought 3 med zoomed UTH last august. All 3 of them were on their own t-stats, about 3 weeks ago all of them stopped working, I thought it was weird and took apart my cages (I have stacking showcase cages). It turns out all 3 of them had burn holes all over them. I'm lucky it didn't start a fire. I immediately replaced all of it with flexwatt.

This may have already been mentioned.... BUT.... :)

I have a Zoomed UTH on my display tank that I just recently got. For them to give you that excuse is ridiculous, especially since it actually SAYS on the box that if you use it on the bottom of the tank vs. on the side, to make sure that you put a layer of material (I chose natural felt) down to prevent the animal's direct contact with the heated glass. Paper towel should be no different (and actually insulate LESS than) the felt! I think there was a problem with the wiring within the pad itself, causing it to overheat like that.

I am not suggesting it's a good idea or that it's safe for a pet, but one of my neighbors has used her Zoomed pad with NO thermostat on the side of her tank for a long time with no repercussions or melting issues. I think it was a faulty pad in your case!! Just my opinion! :)

Kim

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Originally Posted by Amber Mathews

That's what happened to mine. I bought 3 med zoomed UTH last august. All 3 of them were on their own t-stats, about 3 weeks ago all of them stopped working, I thought it was weird and took apart my cages (I have stacking showcase cages). It turns out all 3 of them had burn holes all over them. I'm lucky it didn't start a fire. I immediately replaced all of it with flexwatt.

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I had that happen with my ZooMed UTH. Lucky I didn't start a fire either. And mine was on a t-stat too. I'll never use them again. I like the Ultratherms from Reptile Basics. They seem really nice, reliable, and much safer! :gj:

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Probe placement has nothing to do with it either, the Tstat failed to shut down the heater at the set point plain and simple. Replace the Tstat and use a failsafe. A good t-stat has a much lower chance of failing and the failsafe will prevent over heating.

http://images9.fotki.com/v114/photos...drawing-vi.jpgHosted on Fotki

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cheap T-stats NEED a fail safe and most other should have one IMO the only ones that I would suggest it MIGHT be optional are the new higher end herpstats 1 or better as they have what amounts to a built in failsafe.

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Somewhat off topic but thanks for the graphic. I was actually gonna ask how to properly set up a primary/secondary t-stat, but you've saved me the trouble. :D