Do you ever feed directly on Loose Substrate

I have never fed my snakes on loose substrate like Aspen, Cypress Mulch, etc, and haven't actually used loose substrate for most of this year. It does looks like a lot of the bigger breeders feed directly on the loose substrate (for convenience with a large collection I'm sure.)

Many people believe that there is no risk to their animals accidentally consuming some of the substrate on occasion considering how powerful their digestive system is. Others worry about impaction or think it's not worth the risk, even if that risk is small.

Which leads me to the question and the poll above! Do you ever feed your ball pythons directly on loose substrate?

I feed my snakes on what every they are using as bedding. Some get paper towels, some get aspen and some get cypress mulch.

All of mine are on repti bark and they feed fine, now problem. People tend to forget in teh wild they wouldn't be eating on plates or smooth rocks necessarily. You should be careful, but sometimes people go too far and act like animals can't exist without them doing ABC. I've never met somone personally that had an issue with impaction.

I feed my Dumeril's boa on aspen and my king snake on Sani-chips.

Ball pythons/carpet pythons are on paper.

I feed mine on Aspen all the time. Not a problem.


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Thanks for the feedback. Don't forget to vote i the poll at the top! =)

We feed all of our BPs on shredded aspen and the colubrids on sanichips

Votes "sometimes" because out of all my snakes only four are on aspen. One is my corn who's my display snake and the others are my three biggest BP girl who I switched to see if their feeding improved (maybe being able to burrow would give them the extra security: they've been pigs lately but I don't think that's totally due to the substrate switch). The BPs have digested some aspen but nothing to worry about and I haven't had any problems. Everyone else is on paper towel/newspaper for convenience, I do prefer to NOT feed on aspen/loose substrate.

Earlier today I fed two of my three snakes in their terrariums for the first time. Previously I fed in separate tubs. My girl BP ThunderKiss is on cypress mulch. She had refused her last 2 frozen meals. I'm glad I have a field behind my house to toss uneaten mice in. Something will eat it. I picked up 2 adult mice at a feed store, and found out she hunts, and really lives up to her name. Both negative things associated with feeding on substrate happened today: First, she struck and wrapped up the mouse butt first leaving the head to bite. I was right there in a flash with my tongs to prevent any damage. Second, while she was eating I watched a 1/2" long piece if cypress go down with the mouse. Hopefully she will be fine. Also today my male spider Razor finally ate! He is 6-7 weeks old and this was his first meal in my ownership. I have him in a tub on paper towels so I didn't worry about any impaction. He refused 2 frozen meals so I went with the smallest live adult mouse I could find. After showing no interest for about 15 minutes my patience finally paid off. A perfect strike and coil. As thin as he is he took that mouse like a champ. I feel like a proud daddy today. Hope I can get them feeding on frozen sooner than later.

I feed directly on paper towels :)

I do it every week with my hatchlings (they are kept on aspen) and I do it with other species who are kept on cypress and used to do it with BP when I kept them on cypress.

I have had all my snakes on paper for the last 6 months and enjoy it for the worry free feeding (especially with my girls that require me to leave the f/t rodent in over night.) I'm considering moving a couple stubborn eaters back onto cypress and feeding directly on it. If their appetite improves, it might be worth the risk to make it permanent for just them.

Thanks for the input everyone. I would have guessed the results would have been opposite, but it seems like I might be worrying too much about it.

I always feed on coco coir yup they often eat some it is not a problem. I have had a snake become constipated due to substrate ingestion (cyprus at the time) but she is a very odd case (one eye and mostly blind) The only substrate that I know of that has ever caused issues with ingestion is paper towels. To my mind it isn't worth the risk as it is the same as paper for the snake there is no clear advantage to make up for the minimal risk. Some have their reasons for using it and those reasons out weigh the chance but I don't see it myself.

I feed all of my ball pythons on their aspen substrate and have never had any issues. Ball pythons eat SO much better if you let them eat in their enclosures than putting them somewhere else for feeding. Most of mine eat warm wet frozen / thawed rats off of tongs, and I know there is some potential for the aspen to stick, but I have been doing it this way for years and never seen a single impaction nor even found shavings in their poo.

When Volvagia was on aspen shavings, I would feed her right there, but once I switched to sani-chips and saw the mess she made while eating (and about 50% of her prey was covered in chips), I decided to put paper towels over the sani-chips before offering food.

:) Remember this one fact: Snakes digest rodent bones and fur. Do you really think a little piece of wood is going to affect them much?? I would say, only if it's really sharp and gets stuck somewhere, or if they take in a whole mouthful of it.

Always use aspen bedding, always feed on it with no issues. Once, one of my BPs got a piece stuck in their mouth, but they worked it out on their own before I could even open the cage door. :)

We had messy eaters, and the rat or mouse would always be covered in mulch subtrate, but they never had an issue with it. If they ever had any in their mouth after slurping down that tail, it would get spit out before they finished their yawning.

I feed on aspen. My snakes do such a good job of packing it down that they rarely injest any.

When I used to feed on paper towels one of my snakes used to "gift wrap" his rodents as he ate them. It never did him any harm either.

All of my snakes are fed on Sani-Chips...

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My biggest bp is fed on ground coco husk. If he gets substrate in his mouth he will usually spit it out.

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Originally Posted by Argentra

:) Remember this one fact: Snakes digest rodent bones and fur. Do you really think a little piece of wood is going to affect them much?? I would say, only if it's really sharp and gets stuck somewhere, or if they take in a whole mouthful of it.

Always use aspen bedding, always feed on it with no issues. Once, one of my BPs got a piece stuck in their mouth, but they worked it out on their own before I could even open the cage door. :)

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True however people don't mention that the bones are inside soft mouse or rat exterior. I feed my girl on her eco earth because she eats better in her home and it's just coconut shavings.

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i always feed on shredded aspen, have never had any issues with it. always figured the aspen we get is clean in the wild they eat who knows what along with their prey they have noone running around putting down a buffer between them and the dirty ground and they seem to do ok.

I dont feed her with any substrate around, but thats only becasue when I feed her is when I clean out her home. I put her in a seperate big old bin and dump a feeder in there. By the time shes done eating her tank is clean. :)

I feed all of my snakes loose substrate.

I don't want to take a risk feeding them rodents because I'm worried they will choke. Loose substrate is an excellent source of trace minerals and is high in fiber.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

I feed all of my snakes loose substrate.

I don't want to take a risk feeding them rodents because I'm worried they will choke. Loose substrate is an excellent source of trace minerals and is high in fiber.

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Uhm, what?! LOL....

My dragons feed on newspaper and now that I have a BP he feeds in a separate enclosure that I put him in. I'm a paranoid person as it is so I can't leave them in any sort of loose substrate especially after what happened with my chameleon a few years ago :(... But there are different circumstances I suppose.

I had soil imported from the African Savannah. Kidding, cypress mulch and eco earth with some sphagnum moss from drug out from the hides. I've seen a couple of mouthfuls of eco earth go down with a rat but no visible ill effects so far.

I feed mine on their bedding, newspaper lol. The boas are on reptibark and coco husk, both have no issues eating directly on the bedding.


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Mine is picky and won't eat wet rats... (F/t) so the substrate doesn't really stick to the rats

I have fine (kiln dried) pine chips, they are small, and I feed in-enclosure.
I feed live though, so the rat isn't exactly dragging in heaps of substrate with it.

If you feed appropriate size meals you don't usually have to worry about substrate. I feed FT on ASPEN and I have never had a problem.

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Originally Posted by Argentra

:) Remember this one fact: Snakes digest rodent bones and fur. Do you really think a little piece of wood is going to affect them much?? I would say, only if it's really sharp and gets stuck somewhere, or if they take in a whole mouthful of it.

Always use aspen bedding, always feed on it with no issues. Once, one of my BPs got a piece stuck in their mouth, but they worked it out on their own before I could even open the cage door. :)

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I stopped using aspen long ago, not because of digesting a few pieces, but because pulling it out of the throat of a large adult female ball python that is freaking out is no fun ...
I'm sure it's rare but...
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...loodyaspen.jpg

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Originally Posted by CaitJaye

I dont feed her with any substrate around, but thats only becasue when I feed her is when I clean out her home. I put her in a seperate big old bin and dump a feeder in there. By the time shes done eating her tank is clean. :)

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^^^^^this^^^^^^^

I know everyone has their own beliefs, and their own way of doing things.

I'm certain that there aren't herp keepers running around the jungles to ensure that the wild ones don't eat substrate while they dine...but I figure that IF I can control it, why not?

I feed all my babies in feeding tubs...and while they're chowing down, I clean their tanks. Like CaitJaye said - by the time they're finished, so am I. I get to return them to their homes with a full belly and a clean house.

Two birds - one stone.

Just my $0.02, and I can make change.

I used to keep all mine on cypress mulch and I fed F/T and live fine on it. I've since switched to keep everyone on newspaper since I get it free and it's cleanlier since I usually check everyday and just clean the individual tubs as they become dirty.

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Originally Posted by FoxReptiles

Thanks for the feedback. Don't forget to vote i the poll at the top! =)

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Those of us on tapatalk can't see polls. ;)

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I feed directly on paper towels :)

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X2



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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

Those of us on tapatalk can't see polls. ;)

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yeah, this needs to be fixed.

At home I feed all of my critters on their substrate - never had an issue at all, even if they did ingest some. My blue tongues can be the worst at eating their bedding, but they usually spit it all out, and what they don't, I've seen in their feces. The ball pythons I rarely, if ever, see them actually get any into their mouths, even when feeding on live prey items.

From watching the hundreds of animals in the stores, they're extremely capable of removing substrate from their mouth on the occasions that they do get any in or near that area. The only potential issue would be when substrate chunks are too large - it's best if they're big enough to be spit out (I prefer mixing eco earth with bark or cypress for this reason) but not so big that it can't be easily swallowed if it has to be (so smaller bark pieces, smaller shredded wood chip beddings, etc).

My folks have a panther chameleon that was chewing the bark off of the wood perches in his cage... he passed a 4" long strip of tree bark one day. He certainly didn't seem to enjoy the process (coincidentally, he hasn't really chewed bark on the perches since) but he did manage to pass it on his own. One of the more unusual texts/phone calls I've received from my mother, to be sure.

While in the wild there's no one out there picking the bark/dirt/wood out of the animal's mouths when they eat, true, it's also worth considering that in the wild, not every single animal makes it for a full natural lifespan. We don't know how often wild reptiles die from complications with eating something they're not supposed to. Not saying that we should never feed directly on substrate (again, I feed directly on loose substrate at home), but it's worth remembering that they're not indestructible, either. Flukes happen! So just monitor your pets while they eat. :)

-Jen

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

I feed all of my snakes loose substrate.

I don't want to take a risk feeding them rodents because I'm worried they will choke. Loose substrate is an excellent source of trace minerals and is high in fiber.

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I feed on directly on Loose Substrate because my doctor told me I need more fiber to aid digestion, and it's pretty good with a little steak sauce. I'm not sure what snakes or rodents have to do with it.

^^ LOL

One of Sylvanas' feedings went a little funny as she went to strike the mouse moved and she got a mouth full of coconut substrate.
That was horrible and not fun :(
So now I don't feed her in her tank and put her in a small bin that I had been using for storing some makeup.

I do every time, but I use newspaper for all my pythons. I do how ever feed my Boas on coco husk bedding and reptibark ever time, no issues ever!!!

I always feed my snakes on their coconut husk substrate. In the wild, it would be near impossible to not get dirt of some kind in their mouths. And they hardly ever actually get the substrate in their mouths anyway. One of my kingsnakes actually spits dirt out :)

I would never feed on loose substrate. I DO feed on Eco Earth, but I pat it down firmly to make sure my ball python doesn't get any of it in his mouth. Working pretty well so far. :)

I feed my snakes in a separate bin after I skin the rats, chop of their claws and pull their teeth. I also lop off their tails. and shave their little whiskers.

This way I am sure that no harm will ever befall my delicate little snakes.

A number of years ago one of my snakes died after I fed it on substrate. Even though I have since changed my substrate from glass shards and barbed wire to silk, I still don't take any chances.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

I feed my snakes in a separate bin after I skin the rats, chop of their claws and pull their teeth. I also lop off their tails. and shave their little whiskers.

This way I am sure that no harm will ever befall my delicate little snakes.

A number of years ago one of my snakes died after I fed it on substrate. Even though I have since changed my substrate from glass shards and barbed wire to silk, I still don't take any chances.

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Do you feed live or F/T?

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Originally Posted by 3skulls

Do you feed live or F/T?

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I feed braised with a little jus and garnish.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

I feed braised with a little jus and garnish.

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How do they taste?

I feed mine on loose substrate but my little lavender died recently of an impaction most likely due to substrate :tears: so I may be changing my opinion on feeding on loose substrate. Now I use paper towels for all my baby corns. My balls get cypress mulch or shredded paper, sometimes carefresh or newspaper. I use a variety of substrates to mix it up a little.

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Originally Posted by ToriTheBallPython

I feed mine on loose substrate but my little lavender died recently of an impaction most likely due to substrate :tears: so I may be changing my opinion on feeding on loose substrate. Now I use paper towels for all my baby corns. My balls get cypress mulch or shredded paper, sometimes carefresh or newspaper. I use a variety of substrates to mix it up a little.

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Most likely?

Never seen a necropsy come back saying "most likely".

There are numerous causes for impactions - most have nothing to do with substrate. Substrate caused impactions are so rare that most vets who actually encourage necropsies state that they never see them. In fact most impactions are secondary complications that are preceded by a primary infection cheesing up the gastric system............

Case in point, I sold some Louisiana pines to a lovely lady in Idaho. After a year of ownership two of them died from what she claimed were impactions.

Now toss out the coincidence that TWO snakes died within the span of 10 days and toss out the fact that her vet was too stupid to look at other potential issues and instead was willing to collect her $125 for treating the animals and claim they died of "impaction".

When a third snake in her collection died shortly after (a milksnake if memory serves) I pleaded with her to get the animal necropsied. The necropsy showed that the gastric tract was completely filled with ricotta and further histology showed a viral infection. Her bone dumb vet was willing to chalk up a third death to impaction when she had a virus raging through her collection, which was later tracked to a recent arrival.

Now there are a subset of hack vets out there who will willingly tell you something based on a WAG. As long as people continue to THINK that their animals died from impacted substrate and as long as vets are willing to take guesses on causes of death without recommending a necropsy; the stupid, useless, yet apparently persistent myth that feeding on loose wood fiber substrate is a risk will continue to pollute these forums.

It's very simple. If they can digest BONE... They can digest a little bit of plant matter...
I've fed for 7+ years on loose sub. Never had an issue.

As always Skip you are hilarious!



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Originally Posted by Homegrownscales

It's very simple. If they can digest BONE... They can digest a little bit of plant matter...
I've fed for 7+ years on loose sub. Never had an issue.

As always Skip you are hilarious!



Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

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The ability to digest plant material is different from being able to digest animal material. But I agree with the point that substrate should pose absolutely no problem.

I feed on whatever substrate my reptiles have in their set up. My snakes are all on eco earth currently. So far, I haven't had any troubles.