Orange Dream Enchi

Anybody know whether these have been proven to be of the same allele? I'm trying to figure out a direction I want to go with a project and this information would be very helpful.

Thanks,
John

Garrick Demeyer did a od fire pin x enchi breeding not sure if he has revealed the clutch results yet though :confusd:

Try emailing George Sampson. I swear he had that combo, or something very similar, sitting on his table at the last white plains show. This guy has some HOT snakes. At the expo i spent more time drooling over his snakes than anyone else including NERD and BHB. :)

http://www.morphmadness.com/

Yes OD Enchis have been made. Ozzy Boids have made them. George Sampson made Enchi OD Fires this year as well as an Enchi OD Fire YB. I can't remember if he made just Enchi OD or not. Check out his facebook page!

I would be SHOCKED if they were allelic, they seem to be completely unrelated genetics as far as I know.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I would be SHOCKED if they were allelic, they seem to be completely unrelated genetics as far as I know.

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Well, sometimes I think the same but then I see certain combos and think of other allelic genes and how their combos/supers look similar, just with a twist, and I'm back on the fence again!

Here, you can see one in Ozzy's gallery:

http://www.ozzyboids.com/galleryball.htm

This seems like a good spot to ask a newb question....

What exactly does allelic mean? The two genes (in this case OD and Enchi) sit in the same spot on the DNA ladder?

I need this explained in small words, por favor.

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Originally Posted by BWyant

This seems like a good spot to ask a newb question....

What exactly does allelic mean? The two genes (in this case OD and Enchi) sit in the same spot on the DNA ladder?

I need this explained in small words, por favor.

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Yes, they both land on the same allele and therefor act like a homozygous(super) trait.

A superstripe is a specter/yellowbelly combo and when bred to a normal makes specters and yellowbelly's and no normals because the two traits are allelic.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Yes, they both land on the same allele and therefor act like a homozygous(super) trait.

A superstripe is a specter/yellowbelly combo and when bred to a normal makes specters and yellowbelly's and no normals because the two traits are allelic.

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so cinnamons and black pastels, and fires and vanillas are both allelic?

I realize the orange dream enchi has been made. What I'm trying to figure out is if these two morphs are allelic. I want to know if anybody has made a super enchi orange dream, super orange dream enchi, or a super orange dream super enchi. All of those combos are impossible of both enchi and orange dream are of the same allele.

I recall seeing pictures in early 2011 of at least 1 male orange dream enchi that had some size already so I was just hoping it had been proven one way or another by now.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

so cinnamons and black pastels, and fires and vanillas are both allelic?

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Yes, you can't make super black pastel cinnamons, or super cinnamon black pastels, or super vanilla fires.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

so cinnamons and black pastels, and fires and vanillas are both allelic?

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Absolutely, as are yellowbelly, sparks, gravels and specters.

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Originally Posted by John1982

I realize the orange dream enchi has been made. What I'm trying to figure out is if these two morphs are allelic. I want to know if anybody has made a super enchi orange dream, super orange dream enchi, or a super orange dream super enchi. All of those combos are impossible of both enchi and orange dream are of the same allele.

I recall seeing pictures in early 2011 of at least 1 male orange dream enchi that had some size already so I was just hoping it had been proven one way or another by now.

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Yes, you can't make super black pastel cinnamons, or super cinnamon black pastels, or super vanilla fires.

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I am assuming that you mean Super Black Pastel Super Cinnamon/Super Cinnamon Super Black Pastel?

*edit Also why wouldnt you be able to make a super Vanilla fire?

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You can make a super with Black Pastel, you can make a super with Cinnamon. You can also make a super by crossing a Black Pastel with a Cinnamon.

You can make a super with Vanilla, you can make a super with Fire. You will not however make a super by crossing Vanilla with a Fire.

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Originally Posted by John1982

I realize the orange dream enchi has been made. What I'm trying to figure out is if these two morphs are allelic. I want to know if anybody has made a super enchi orange dream, super orange dream enchi, or a super orange dream super enchi. All of those combos are impossible of both enchi and orange dream are of the same allele.

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Well, super ODs are pretty new. You could still prove/disprove it by breeding that OD enchi--if even one normal or OD enchi pops out, it's not allelic.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

*edit Also why wouldnt you be able to make a super Vanilla fire?

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Because fire and vanilla are allelic :)

Has anyone tryed to make a Super Vanilla Fire? hmmmmmm

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

I am assuming that you mean Super Black Pastel Super Cinnamon/Super Cinnamon Super Black Pastel?

*edit Also why wouldnt you be able to make a super Vanilla fire?

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You can make a super with Black Pastel, you can make a super with Cinnamon. You can also make a super by crossing a Black Pastel with a Cinnamon.

You can make a super with Vanilla, you can make a super with Fire. You will not however make a super by crossing Vanilla with a Fire.

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I meant super black pastel + cinnamon(3 genes), and super cinnamon + black pastel(3 genes) are impossible because black pastel and cinnamon are of the same allele so you can only have 2 in the same animal.

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It's the same for BEL complex animals. You can't have mojave, lesser and het russo in the same animal, it has to be a combination of any two of those as they are all allelic.

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Originally Posted by loonunit

Well, super ODs are pretty new. You could still prove/disprove it by breeding that OD enchi--if even one normal or OD enchi pops out, it's not allelic.

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Yes indeedy, pretty much any pairing with that OD enchi should at least hint at whether they are allelic or not which is why I'm inquiring if anybody knows. I'll have to find the post I came across before but it was early 2011 I think and the orange dream enchi that was pictured was a male in the 300+ gram range.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Has anyone tryed to make a Super Vanilla Fire? hmmmmmm

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You can't make a super vanilla fire nor can you make a super fire vanilla :gj:

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Originally Posted by John1982

I meant super black pastel + cinnamon(3 genes), and super cinnamon + black pastel(3 genes) are impossible because black pastel and cinnamon are of the same allele so you can only have 2 in the same animal.

It's the same for BEL complex animals. You can't have mojave, lesser and het russo in the same animal, it has to be a combination of any two of those as they are all allelic.

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Just wanted to make sure of what you were saying. Of course you are right about the Bel, Cinny and BP.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

You can't make a super vanilla fire nor can you make a super fire vanilla :gj:

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My question is has anyone tried? Just because you say you can't, doesn’t make it so. Now I have not tried to make one personally, but this is the first that I have ever heard that you couldn’t. Same with the OD/Enchi. I am not sure that anyone has tried to make a super OD Enchi. I don't see why anyone would assume anything unless it's been tried or done. I guess Oz would be the one to ask.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Same with the OD/Enchi. I am not sure that anyone has tried to make a super OD Enchi.

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As loonunit mentioned, you don't have to make a super enchi + orange dream, or super orange dream + enchi to prove whether or not they're allelic. If they are allelic then any breeding involving an orange dream enchi would be incapable of producing normals because the orange dream enchi is already a homozygous expression. Same way BELs can't produce normals, every offspring of a BEL has to carry one of the two components that made the parent BEL.

Has anyone thought that maybe all morphs are allelic? That there are hundreds of different allele working in a dominance series of multiple alleles? Possibly even Pleiotropic and Epistasis Alleles? Could even be Polygenic? Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Has anyone thought that maybe all morphs are allelic? That there are hundreds of different allele working in a dominance series of multiple alleles? Possibly even Pleiotropic and Epistasis Alleles? Could even be Polygenic? Just a thought.

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I'm looking for as simple an explanation as possible for what I'll get when I breed A to B and will leave the pondering of these deeper genetic questions to those whose fancy they tickle.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Yes, they both land on the same allele and therefor act like a homozygous(super) trait.

A superstripe is a specter/yellowbelly combo and when bred to a normal makes specters and yellowbelly's and no normals because the two traits are allelic.

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Who knew 8th grade science would ever come in handy again?

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Originally Posted by John1982

I'm looking for as simple an explanation as possible for what I'll get when I breed A to B and will leave the pondering of these deeper genetic questions to those whose fancy they tickle.

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Well the simple answer to your question is that OD and Enchi are not Allelic.
Though I guess you could verify that with OZ also if you wanted to. I did get a verification today though.