Morph ID??? Please Help

I bought these two to Ball pythons from a girl on craigslist. She was selling them as a pair of pastels. I told her they were not pastels but they look like something is different about them. I am breeding them back together this breeding season. I was told they are not related but they look like they are considering they have the same pattern and coloration. Does anyone have any idea what they are?

Male:
http://picpaste.com/male_4-JZkRp8HL.JPG
http://picpaste.com/male_3-Z7e64CZU.JPG
http://picpaste.com/male_2-eiiI7dMs.JPG
http://picpaste.com/male_1-nXbq0I0G.JPG

Female:
http://picpaste.com/female_3-eut6qYl3.JPG
http://picpaste.com/female_2-3iKeA1pP.JPG
http://picpaste.com/female_1-e4e8MW3M.JPG

Both are normals.

Both are normal.
The discoloration in pigment is usually a sign of lack of nutrients. But sometimes, discoloration is random and just occurs out of no where after a shed because the new skin wasn't developed correctly under the old skin.
I would bet with proper care and feeding, they will look like regular normals.

But the male does have a neat pattern.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by satomi325

Both are normal.
The discoloration in pigment is usually a sign of lack of nutrients. But sometimes, discoloration is random and just occurs out of no where after a shed because the new skin wasn't developed correctly under the old skin.
I would bet with proper care and feeding, they will look like regular normals.

But the male does have a neat pattern.

---

Do you think its is worth breeding them together?

That would be completely your call. If you think there is something to them, then go for it! Just make sure you have adequate space/food/time to care for the babies!

Me personally, I wouldn't breed for normals. I would mix in another morph in there and see if the reduced pattern gets passed down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by satomi325

Both are normal.
The discoloration in pigment is usually a sign of lack of nutrients.

---

This looks probable.
There's nothing there that would make me want to breed 2 normals together.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

This looks probable.
There's nothing there that would make me want to breed 2 normals together.

---

Even size? If I had a pair of 6 foot normals I'd have to go for at least 1 clutch with em! :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by earthdragons737

Do you think its is worth breeding them together?

---

If it were me.. no.

They have darker pigmentation and coloration that I prefer to not select for.

But that's me, and me alone. Have fun with your animals, and sometimes breeding just for the sake of the experience is enough of an incentive to give it a go, even once!

I can virtually guarantee you that breeding them together is going to cost you much more $ than what you will be potentially able to sell any offspring for, so if you do it, consider it just money spent for an experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mainbutter

If it were me.. no.

I can virtually guarantee you that breeding them together is going to cost you much more $ than what you will be potentially able to sell any offspring for, so if you do it, consider it just money spent for an experience.

---

Why would it cost much more $ to breed the two normals? It cost nothing to breed ball pythons. You have to pay for feeding (either by breeding your own or buying the rats) and heat true. He already owns the two snakes and already has to take care of them. The babies can be sold relatively quick. Heck if he gets 5 eggs he could make back $100. I don't see how breeding them is going to cost so much more money than what the babies can be sold for. Besides the experience of breeding balls and hatching the babies is well worth the minimal amount of money to feed and care for the babies than the extra $$ that you make from selling them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Why would it cost much more $ to breed the two normals? It cost nothing to breed ball pythons. You have to pay for feeding (either by breeding your own or buying the rats) and heat true. He already owns the two snakes and already has to take care of them. The babies can be sold relatively quick. Heck if he gets 5 eggs he could make back $100. I don't see how breeding them is going to cost so much more money than what the babies can be sold for. Besides the experience of breeding balls and hatching the babies is well worth the minimal amount of money to feed and care for the babies than the extra $$ that you make from selling them.

---

He could make back $100 IF he sells them. Just because you breed them doesn't mean they will get sold.

Also it is worth mentioning that the startup costs of breeding are not small. You will need a proper incubator, thermostat, egg box, incubation medium, and housing for the babies. Not to mention food for all those babies.

I am going to say that the price of all of the above is much more than $100.

I have the adequate space to care for many clutches of ball python eggs. I already breed ball pythons so This would be just another clutch to go into the incubator. It would not cost me much to breed to normals together. I have many more snakes then what is listed.

They do have some nice size to them, so that is a plus. Are you sure they are male and female? If you didn't sex them yourself I sure wouldn't count on that.

Depending on your area, there just might be a market for normal babies. Truthfully though, if you are breeding them in search of something more than normal, I don't think I would. Normals vary so widely in appearance, the odds that they are more than normals is slim. You already know they aren't pastel so if you have any other morphs that would help their look along I'd go that route.

Gale

Often pet stores buy normal ball pythons..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Capray

Often pet stores buy normal ball pythons..

---

For $5-10 per. :( at least around here anyways. But thats better than having to give them away.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by satomi325

Both are normal.
The discoloration in pigment is usually a sign of lack of nutrients. But sometimes, discoloration is random and just occurs out of no where after a shed because the new skin wasn't developed correctly under the old skin.
I would bet with proper care and feeding, they will look like regular normals.
before
But the male does have a neat pattern.

---

Thank you,

I need to remember this, because I'm sure I'm eventually gonna' be staring at a baby snake's butt and think to myself "That looks dinky."

I remember the half axanthic half normal looking one with the silver sides about a week ago.

In all seriousness though, this makes complete sense. We even see it in humans.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaorte

He could make back $100 IF he sells them. Just because you breed them doesn't mean they will get sold.

Also it is worth mentioning that the startup costs of breeding are not small. You will need a proper incubator, thermostat, egg box, incubation medium, and housing for the babies. Not to mention food for all those babies.

I am going to say that the price of all of the above is much more than $100.

---

If you already have the ball pythons to breed there really is no "start up" cost to breed unless you want to spend the money. You don't have to have an incubator. One can always do a maternal incubation. Maternal means no bator or medium is needed. If you are already breeding rodents then there is really no extra cost for food to feed any babies. People buy normals all the time. The most expensive thing with breeding bp's is the initial purchase of your breeders. After that its the rodents. Anyone who has a decent collection is more than likely breeding their own rodents so the extra food for one clutch is not even a problem. Of course the bigger the collection = more power consumption and more rodents, which means more rodent food and bedding. If someone did want a bator, they are relatively cheep to make. You can find the fridge for free so you would just need to buy heat tape , stat and a fan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

If you already have the ball pythons to breed there really is no "start up" cost to breed unless you want to spend the money. You don't have to have an incubator. One can always do a maternal incubation. Maternal means no bator or medium is needed. If you are already breeding rodents then there is really no extra cost for food to feed any babies. People buy normals all the time. The most expensive thing with breeding bp's is the initial purchase of your breeders. After that its the rodents. Anyone who has a decent collection is more than likely breeding their own rodents so the extra food for one clutch is not even a problem. Of course the bigger the collection = more power consumption and more rodents, which means more rodent food and bedding. If someone did want a bator, they are relatively cheep to make. You can find the fridge for free so you would just need to buy heat tape , stat and a fan.

---

OP Already said they have space for the babies and an incubator. This changes a lot of things.

When people post about breeding normals together I make the assumption (since I don't know anything about them) That they only have a few animals and might not have bred them before. I like to lay out the fact that breeding these animals is not "free". Going from caring for 2 adult ball pythons to 4-8 hatchlings is a pretty big jump. As long as the person has a way to incubate the eggs (Maternal incubation being an option, yes, but not my preferred method) space to house the babies, and plenty of food then I have no issues.

I'm sure if the OP has already bred ball pythons then they either have good access to feeders or breed them.

Also, an incubator is going to cost around $125 to make assuming you get a fridge for free.

My point is not the numbers, my point is that anyone who wishes to breed these animals be prepared to take care of a lot of babies. Not everyone is cut out for caring for a large number of animals. Breeding should be done responsibly. Being able to sell the babies is never a guarantee. I see tables full of normals at the local show around here. People don't buy normals "all the time". It depends where you live and where you are trying to sell them and for how much. I like to make people aware of the worst case scenario where they can't sell any of their babies.

Is it bad to assume that they are related because of this discoloration?

I got a pair of "normal ball pythons" from a lady on craigslist. She was selling them as pastels because the owner of her local pet shop said she had never seen anything like them and said they resembled pastels. I would not trust the petshop owner due to her telling the previous owner that if the pair of ball pythons if bred the female will lay 60, yes 60 eggs! But besides that fact they still look different to me. I posted a thread on "what this morph"
( http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ID-Please-Help ) about them and people were saying how they were just normals and the discoloration was due to lack for nutrients. When I picked them up they were in great health, Although she was feeding them mice, it was once a week at 5 mice each. Not an approved diet (by me anyway) but still better than what I have seen before. What make me wonder is with alot of research I could not find any pics that look similar to what they look like. Also people were telling me it is not worth breeding them. I would like to get a wider range of opinions on this. I dont want to sound like I think every normal ball python I see is a dinker but these guys are relitivly odd.

Male:
http://picpaste.com/male_4-JZkRp8HL.JPG
http://picpaste.com/male_3-Z7e64CZU.JPG
http://picpaste.com/male_2-eiiI7dMs.JPG
http://picpaste.com/male_1-nXbq0I0G.JPG

Female:
http://picpaste.com/female_3-eut6qYl3.JPG
http://picpaste.com/female_2-3iKeA1pP.JPG
http://picpaste.com/female_1-e4e8MW3M.JPG

other than some bright parts of their pattern i see nothing else that say that they are anything other than normals. but normal do come in a variety not all look the same

Hi,

The male has slight het pied markers - but those are in no way reliable as not all hets have them and plenty of non-hets have them too.

Other than that I will stick to the two normals reply.


dr del

I still want to know more on the missing nutrients caused this. I under stand that there are MANY different colors patterns for normal ball pythons. But they still catch my eye as somthing strange especially in person.

I got a pair of "normal ball pythons" from a lady on craigslist. She was selling them as pastels because the owner of her local pet shop said she had never seen anything like them and said they resembled pastels. I would not trust the petshop owner due to her telling the previous owner that if the pair of ball pythons if bred the female will lay 60, yes 60 eggs! But besides that fact they still look different to me. I posted a thread on "what this morph"
( http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ID-Please-Help ) about them and people were saying how they were just normals and the discoloration was due to lack for nutrients. When I picked them up they were in great health, Although she was feeding them mice, it was once a week at 5 mice each. Not an approved diet (by me anyway) but still better than what I have seen before. What make me wonder is with alot of research I could not find any pics that look similar to what they look like. Also people were telling me it is not worth breeding them. I would like to get a wider range of opinions on this. I dont want to sound like I think every normal ball python I see is a dinker but these guys are relitivly odd.

Male:
http://picpaste.com/male_4-JZkRp8HL.JPG
http://picpaste.com/male_3-Z7e64CZU.JPG
http://picpaste.com/male_2-eiiI7dMs.JPG
http://picpaste.com/male_1-nXbq0I0G.JPG

Female:
http://picpaste.com/female_3-eut6qYl3.JPG
http://picpaste.com/female_2-3iKeA1pP.JPG
http://picpaste.com/female_1-e4e8MW3M.JPG

I remember this one.

Can't say for sure, but I would be interested in seeing the offspring!

Goodluck!

Cant see the pics

Sent from my LS670 using Tapatalk 2

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by decensored

I remember this one.

Can't say for sure, but I would be interested in seeing the offspring!

Goodluck!

---

should I breed the male and female together or just female to a morph?

Just because they ate a lot of mice, doesn't mean good health. Lots of people raise their mice on substandard food because it's cheaper. Poor food in the mice, poor nutrition in the mice you feed the snake. It happens more than you would think.

Neither of those snakes look remotely like a pastel, not even an ugly pastel.

If you want to bred them then by all means do so. But do it with the expectation they will produce average quality normal offspring which you may or may not have trouble finding homes for.

I've seen many and many snakes in my day, and what you see in these two is really not all that uncommon in mass produced, malnourished ball pythons. I see more rescues every year that have these same pale splotches, or should I say snakes in need of being rescued from neglectful or inexperienced owners. I've even owned a few like that. And a couple of them really were morphs. My husband's super pastel is a great example. When he got her [ because she was cheap ] she was the palest, brownest, ugliest excuse for a super pastel I'd ever seen. And I mean UGLY. Now, while she'll never win any beauty contests, she did color up really nice once she was offered good quality food on a regular basis.

Had a mojave the same way. He was pale, washed out, almost a greenish color. He looked like he was sick. A few months later, with plenty of good food in his belly, he's starting to look like a mojave should.

Also have a fire, same thing. She'd been starved down to 400 grams at 2 years old. Pale and sickly looking, with these odd bright patches like your snakes have. Today, she eats like a horse on the healthy food I raise myself, and you'd never know she was the same snake.

So by all means do breed them. That's the only way you'll ever know for sure. But don't expect something never before seen out of them, because that will only set you up for disappointment.

Gale

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by angllady2

Just because they ate a lot of mice, doesn't mean good health. Lots of people raise their mice on substandard food because it's cheaper. Poor food in the mice, poor nutrition in the mice you feed the snake. It happens more than you would think.

Neither of those snakes look remotely like a pastel, not even an ugly pastel.

If you want to bred them then by all means do so. But do it with the expectation they will produce average quality normal offspring which you may or may not have trouble finding homes for.

I've seen many and many snakes in my day, and what you see in these two is really not all that uncommon in mass produced, malnourished ball pythons. I see more rescues every year that have these same pale splotches, or should I say snakes in need of being rescued from neglectful or inexperienced owners. I've even owned a few like that. And a couple of them really were morphs. My husband's super pastel is a great example. When he got her [ because she was cheap ] she was the palest, brownest, ugliest excuse for a super pastel I'd ever seen. And I mean UGLY. Now, while she'll never win any beauty contests, she did color up really nice once she was offered good quality food on a regular basis.

Had a mojave the same way. He was pale, washed out, almost a greenish color. He looked like he was sick. A few months later, with plenty of good food in his belly, he's starting to look like a mojave should.

Also have a fire, same thing. She'd been starved down to 400 grams at 2 years old. Pale and sickly looking, with these odd bright patches like your snakes have. Today, she eats like a horse on the healthy food I raise myself, and you'd never know she was the same snake.

So by all means do breed them. That's the only way you'll ever know for sure. But don't expect something never before seen out of them, because that will only set you up for disappointment.

Gale

---

I'v had them scince July and been feeding them med rats weekly that I rasie myself on mauzri rat breeder food. they havent changed a bit in color althought they put on about 800- 1000 grams.

Well the only way to know for sure is to breed them. It could be something cool, or it could be just a bunch of normals. I agree they do look a little odd. If nothing else I'm sure a local pet shop would take the babies off your hands if they proved to be just normal but there is always that small chance that you have a new morph hiding inside them. Either way you wouldn't have to wonder anymore, I say breed them and find out.

It can take years for their normal color to come back. They are not pastels. As others have said they look like normals that for what ever reason either lost or started to lose their coloring. No one really knows why some ball pythons do this color change. Some think it was something they ate, but its just speculation. Usually it is a snake that has been improperly cared for, eating who knows what and living in sub-par filthy conditions.
I say breed them if you want to. Just be prepared to get normal looking ball python hatchlings.

This is a pair that we had. The male was like this when he was imported many years ago. The female doesn't look like this any more. She has most of her color back now. It's taken here about 3 years.
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...1/100_3658.jpg

There's nothing about those two that would compel me to breed them together.

Get the girl to good weight, then selectively breed her to a mutation that she would compliment.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

Hi,

Well most colour changes in ball pythons we understand are caused by hormonal changes.

Those can be caused by breeding, stress, illness and a whole host of reasons we know nothing about. :rolleyes:


dr del

The way the male's pattern comes together to form those brown blocks instead of separating is pretty cool.

If I was going to do anything with this particular group, I'd see if I could get babies to inherit that big block pattern.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by earthdragons737

I bought these two to Ball pythons from a girl on craigslist. She was selling them as a pair of pastels. I told her they were not pastels but they look like something is different about them. I am breeding them back together this breeding season. I was told they are not related but they look like they are considering they have the same pattern and coloration. Does anyone have any idea what they are?

Male:
http://picpaste.com/male_4-JZkRp8HL.JPG
http://picpaste.com/male_3-Z7e64CZU.JPG
http://picpaste.com/male_2-eiiI7dMs.JPG
http://picpaste.com/male_1-nXbq0I0G.JPG

Female:
http://picpaste.com/female_3-eut6qYl3.JPG
http://picpaste.com/female_2-3iKeA1pP.JPG
http://picpaste.com/female_1-e4e8MW3M.JPG

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by earthdragons737

I got a pair of "normal ball pythons" from a lady on craigslist. She was selling them as pastels because the owner of her local pet shop said she had never seen anything like them and said they resembled pastels. I would not trust the petshop owner due to her telling the previous owner that if the pair of ball pythons if bred the female will lay 60, yes 60 eggs! But besides that fact they still look different to me. I posted a thread on "what this morph"
( http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ID-Please-Help ) about them and people were saying how they were just normals and the discoloration was due to lack for nutrients. When I picked them up they were in great health, Although she was feeding them mice, it was once a week at 5 mice each. Not an approved diet (by me anyway) but still better than what I have seen before. What make me wonder is with alot of research I could not find any pics that look similar to what they look like. Also people were telling me it is not worth breeding them. I would like to get a wider range of opinions on this. I dont want to sound like I think every normal ball python I see is a dinker but these guys are relitivly odd.

Male:
http://picpaste.com/male_4-JZkRp8HL.JPG
http://picpaste.com/male_3-Z7e64CZU.JPG
http://picpaste.com/male_2-eiiI7dMs.JPG
http://picpaste.com/male_1-nXbq0I0G.JPG

Female:
http://picpaste.com/female_3-eut6qYl3.JPG
http://picpaste.com/female_2-3iKeA1pP.JPG
http://picpaste.com/female_1-e4e8MW3M.JPG

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by earthdragons737

I got a pair of "normal ball pythons" from a lady on craigslist. She was selling them as pastels because the owner of her local pet shop said she had never seen anything like them and said they resembled pastels. I would not trust the petshop owner due to her telling the previous owner that if the pair of ball pythons if bred the female will lay 60, yes 60 eggs! But besides that fact they still look different to me. I posted a thread on "what this morph"
( http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ID-Please-Help ) about them and people were saying how they were just normals and the discoloration was due to lack for nutrients. When I picked them up they were in great health, Although she was feeding them mice, it was once a week at 5 mice each. Not an approved diet (by me anyway) but still better than what I have seen before. What make me wonder is with alot of research I could not find any pics that look similar to what they look like. Also people were telling me it is not worth breeding them. I would like to get a wider range of opinions on this. I dont want to sound like I think every normal ball python I see is a dinker but these guys are relitivly odd.

Male:
http://picpaste.com/male_4-JZkRp8HL.JPG
http://picpaste.com/male_3-Z7e64CZU.JPG
http://picpaste.com/male_2-eiiI7dMs.JPG
http://picpaste.com/male_1-nXbq0I0G.JPG

Female:
http://picpaste.com/female_3-eut6qYl3.JPG
http://picpaste.com/female_2-3iKeA1pP.JPG
http://picpaste.com/female_1-e4e8MW3M.JPG

---

In an effort to keep the forum clutter free all 3 threads have now been merged into one. :gj:

Yeah so basically something caused them to change colors. No one understands how or why, it is a mystery. Over time they will get their normal coloration back.
:rolleyes:
Here is a link to other similar cases.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/-Female-ball-python-color-change-after-shed

First - please do not start yet another thread asking the same thing - we've already had a moderator have to merge all three of your threads asking the same thing.

Second - re-posting the same question is not going to change the fact that these are two normals. You really don't need our approval to breed them together if that's what you want to do.

You asked for opinions, and most of the opinions are - it's not anything that most of us with some years under our belts haven't seen before - and in most cases, it's believed to be related to their diet.

If you believe it to be more than that - then breed them together and find out.