I wish I had waited just another 5 or 6 days...

I just wanted to share a cautionary tale with any inexperienced breeders out there.

I had 7 perfect spider x pastel eggs incubated at 90*F and I cut on day 50. I've waited 3 years for this clutch as I've always wanted to produce my own bumble bee.

Today is day 53 and I've realized that 4 of the eggs have died ( I know they were alive the first couple days). I suspect bacteria is to blame as those 4 had white cloudiness developing in them whereas the others have remained clear the entire time. I did try to flush out the streaks of white and used saline to top off my eggs.

The 4 eggs that died included a normal, a pastel, a very high white spider, and my only bumble bee :(

I'm waiting for the others poke their heads out, which judging by their color will be any day now. While I'm eager to hatch out the remaining 3, I'm devastated and beyond burnt out... I will not be cutting if I ever decide to breed again

So sorry for your losses! :(

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That's a tough blow, my condolences.

I'm very sorry to hear about your losses. May things go better in the future. :( So sorry.

Live and learn.

I wouldn't let this stop me from having another season. I lost one last year, and 5 this year. All were not my fault.
Sometimes life isn't meant to be for longer than it should be.
Bet you next season you'll get more than one bee and a pair to boot!
Male and female!

It will happen.

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Sorry for your loss, but I believe you may have just cut a bit early. If you had waited till the 55 day mark it might have gone differently, so I wouldn't just drop cutting eggs like that or breeding for that matter. I recently cut open a pastel X spider clutch at day 55 and by day 56-57 they were all out. It's all trial and error unfortunately and this hobby takes a lot of patience.

I think it's a good caution. In this instant gratification age, some folks are too eager to cut, and I believe most of the twisted umbilical issues we see so often are a direct relation to cutting too early and then constant poking at babies before they are ready.

Sorry for your loss!

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Sorry for your loss.

That's a bummer, sorry. Hope the rest of them are healthy for you.

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The only mistake is the one from which we learn nothing.

And I fully respect that you show yourself as the responsible for the loss. There´s a lot of people that start threads saying a friend of my girlfriend, blablabla...We all know who did it....

Learn and move on! :gj:

Quote:

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I think it's a good caution. In this instant gratification age, some folks are too eager to cut, and I believe most of the twisted umbilical issues we see so often are a direct relation to cutting too early and then constant poking at babies before they are ready.

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I also have a theory that this is also the case. Didn't hear about cutting when people were actually patient enough to let eggs pip on their own years ago. Glad someone else thinks this may also be the cause of twists.

also how much were the eggs candled later in the eggs cycle? a good friend of mine justin kobylka told me some great advice a couple years ago, as you candle more and more the snake inside gets more stressed out which leads to umbilical strangulation. Once they are developed and near the end stages of their egg life they are very susceptible to light, and a flashlight is quite bright :/

As for cutting time, I usually stick with 53-55 days and even then it's not a huge cut just a small slit enough to see inside a little and give the easy exit.

sorry for your loss either way and better luck next year

Thanks for the kind words everyone. I'm still waiting to see if the other 3 come out fine.

On a side note- I didn't candle them more than once during late incubation and no dead ones had twisted umbillcus cords.

Sorry to hear. I am going to be tying to produce my own bumblebee next season and i know it would suck to have the little one not make it. This is a hobby, we all make mistakes just learn from it and keep doing what you enjoy.


1.0 - Spider / Ball Python
1.0 - Pastel, Het Orange Ghost / Ball Python
0.1 - Pastel, Het Orange Ghost / Ball Python

0.1 - German Shepherd (Kahlua)

1.1.0 Dendrobates Tinctorius “Azureus”
1.1.0 Dendrobates Auratus "El Cope"

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Cut on day 50 and dead on day 53? Seems quick to me. I've had babies go for 10 days with a cut egg and still come out o.k. I've also had plenty of eggs start to grow bacteria because I CUT THEM TO EARILY, but they still hatched and are doing fine.

I'm one of those people that tells myself I'm not going to cut this year......day 55 rolls around and I find myself with sissors in hand ready to cut.

After I do, I feel like I shoundn't have. So far I have not had a bad experience cutting early, but I know it's probably just luck.

Anybody esle think that 3 days in an exposed egg and the babies dying is a little soon?

Sorry for your loss. I know it is very heartbreaking and disappointing! Do not give up on breeding though, live and learn is the best motto. Also, when it comes to BPs, patience really is a virtue that must be learned. We live and work with them on their time not ours. Very frustrating. As far as pipping eggs, I usually wait until at least two pip on their own and then I cut the others. I figure if at least two are ready, then more than likely others will be too. Good luck!

I have hatched many hundreds of ball pythons and I never cut. Not because I don't believe in it but because I have seen many variations in incubation time from 53 days to 63 days and the only way to know for sure if they are ready is to let them pip on there own. Some may argue umbilical cord strangulation but after hatching close to 1,000 BP's I have NEVER had an umbilical cord problem,not saying it doesn't happen but IMO it is much more likely you will have problems from unabsorbed yolk(which I never have had) or bacteria growth in what was a perfectly sanitary and sealed egg.

Ball pythons hatch when they have reached absorbed their yolk, reached their final stage and are ready to emerge, when you cut you have no idea where they are in this cycle and therefore open the door to many possibilities. I have hundreds of animals to take care of and when I cut an egg now I have some eggs to take of too! the only time I cut is when the other eggs are pipped and one still hasn't.

Some say they cut only at day 55 but what if that clutch was supposed to be 63 day clutch? There is no way of telling.

I am very sorry for your terrible experience, thanks for sharing. Hopefully some can learn from your unfortunate experience.

Believe me hon I feel your pain.

I got impatient myself this year, and it cost me my very first pied. The one I'd been waiting 4 year for. That was just about the hardest thing I've had to deal with. Believe me, I was a wreck. It took me 3 days just to get the strength to post here about it.

Beating yourself up over it isn't going to help you any more than it did me. All I can say is, it does get better over time. The words sound dumb but they are true just the same. Console yourself with the babies you still have, and consider it a learning experience. And no, that isn't easy for me to say. I don't know about you, but I don't WANT to learn things the hard way! The babies you still have will offer you comfort, whether you want them to or not. And watching them grow and change will ease the pain. There is something so rewarding about seeing your little ones hatch, then shed, and then take their first meal. You just can't help but feel it was worth it.

Even if you don't think so now, and I had my second thoughts as well, you will want to try again. And next season you may just get the bee you longed for. Or maybe even two!

Gale

The remaining 3 did not make it.

@ MS2- trust me I'm shocked that they perished so quickly...

I don't even know what to say at this point... I was going to be picking up a male king pin or pastel lesser but at this point I just don't know.

Sorry for your loss.

Day 50 is really early for someone that doesn't have experience with cutting eggs, there's a lot to keep track of when you cut eggs. I wouldn't suggest before day 54 for anyone that hasn't done it, I don't even cut before then. You have to keep them clean and keep them moist. When I cut mine at day 54, I clean/mist them 2-3 times a day depending on what they look like.

I'm so sorry for your loss. But what eveyone is saying is true. We learn from our mistakes. It may have also just been some form of bacteria that you were unaware of. Don't let that stop you from pursuing your passion.