The Full Spectrum Lighting Experiment

I prefer to use full spectrum bulbs for viewing purposes in my cages. I use Zoo-Meds Naturesun 2.0 bulbs that have a color temperature of 6500 K and a CRI of 98. These bulbs are advertised to have a slew of benefits for animals so I have decided to put that to the test.

I currently have 4 ball pythons with identical cages. each will have a different light installed in their cage. All 4 cages have 18" T8 Fluorescent fixtures in them the difference will be the bulbs.

Cage #1 will be my control without any supplemental lighting

Cage #2 will have a standard Fluorescent tube installed I am not sure of the color temperature,but is is very low (produces a yellow tinted light)

Cage #3 will have a standard tube with a color temperature of 4200 K (not full spectrum but close)

Cage #4 will a a Zoo-Med Naturesun 2.0 Full spectrum bulb 6500 K

I will record feeding, general activity, growth, and disposition for 1 month, then switch the bulbs around (to make sure that it isn't just the snake in each cage) and run the experiment again.

I'll be honest I'm not expecting any difference at all but I figured that if there was a difference it might effect how we see supplemental lighting.

Cage #1

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...psf233a066.jpg

Cage #2

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...s/IMG_0455.jpg

Cage #3

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...ps77b00a80.jpg

Cage #4

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...ps743950fd.jpg

Cage #3 on the left and #4 on the right

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...psa85c2c32.jpg

I think that's a great experiment but I think a month is too short of a time frame to really see any real results. I think I'd go at least 6 months.

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Originally Posted by ChrisS

I think that's a great experiment but I think a month is too short of a time frame to really see any real results. I think I'd go at least 6 months.

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Can do, I keep the exact same records regardless so making it longer doesn't really add any work for me.

Interesting considering they are nocturnal, I'll be interested in seeing the results.

I kept our breeding snakes in a small bathroom last year and the only light they ever saw was about an hour and a half every 2-3 days.
They ate great, bred fine and the outcome for me was no change from the season before when they had a normal light schedule with a window in the room.

Good luck :gj:

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Interesting considering they are nocturnal, I'll be interested in seeing the results.

I kept our breeding snakes in a small bathroom last year and the only light they ever saw was about an hour and a half every 2-3 days.
They ate great, bred fine and the outcome for me was no change from the season before when they had a normal light schedule with a window in the room.

Good luck :gj:

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And that is exactly why I have a cage without any lights on. My guess is that the snake in the cage with no lights does exactly the same or better than the snake with the full spectrum bulb

After this I am going to try the same thing with a diurnal snake/reptile.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

And that is exactly why I have a cage without any lights on. My guess is that the snake in the cage with no lights does exactly the same or better than the snake with the full spectrum bulb

After this I am going to try the same thing with a diurnal snake/reptile.

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I do believe that a diurnal species would benefit much more from a full spectrum bulb. But with that being said I also feel that all living things benefit from natural sun light.

Great Idea make sure to keep us posted on the results. I know I will be watching.

Aaron do you have a UVb meter? I would be very interested to see what a full spectrum with and with out UVb if that would make a difference. There is an ongoing experiment with crepuscular snakes and general health with UV inclusive and non inclusive lighting.

Personally I dislike having off colour fluorescent lights I typically use D50s as I have them anyway. I have been known to use 'cool white' which is close ish to daylight (5600 or so range). I am guessing you do not have a colour meter and are just using a Dslr as a colour temp source. keep in mind that you need to shoot JPG as colour settings are not applied to RAW files and that the camera settings need to be neutral.

The other issue with fluorescent light is colour temp is only describes yellow/blue and fluorescent light is often off in the green/magenta end. That means 'daylight' fluorescent lights (d50s) are still slightly green even though a colour meter reads it as 6300-6500ºK.

It's a waste of time on a nocturnal snake.

I've borrowed a UVB meter from a friend before I might be able to get ahold it one again.

Here some cool links on UV and snakes

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18241029
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum
http://jeb.biologists.org/content/202/14/1931.full.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/29/23/7519.full.pdf
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/skintests.htm

http://vetmed.illinois.edu/mmitch/pdf/corn%20snake.pdf

There is another study but I can no longer find reference to it.

Any update on the data, Aaron??

I keep UVB on my ATBs, and have done it on other species before as well. Ball Pythons tend to be lumps regardless... but I found my other species exhibited a wider range of behaviors (the ATBs are clearly nocturnal but their perching/basking/nighttime movements were distinctly different with a UVB light vs without), and did well with them. I like lighting cages with UVB lights, either 2.0 or 5.0 in most cases... You see a more noticeable difference in insect eating lizards, even nocturnal ones like Leopard Geckos, when they're kept with it, but I feel even though snakes don't *need* light, they at worst don't mind it, and at best do better with it.

I think we understand less about how reptiles perceive and utilize light than we think we do, and we're still scratching the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the lighting discussion. In most snakes, it is a less relevant discussion than with a majority of lizards, but it's still an interesting discussion to have. Looking forward to see what the results were like :)

-Jen

Thumbs up man. I havnt been on for a long time and this was the first thread I read.

Well here is the first update. Unfortunately there aren't any meaningful results yet. I have completed the first round of testing. I will now be switching the bulbs so that each snake has a different bulb. I will run the test 3 more times so each snake will get each bulb. This is why the current results are meaningless. I don't have anything to compare them to.

The snake that did the best was the snake without any artificial lighting. she ate the best, and subsequently grew the most (proportionally to her weight).

The runner up had the nature sun 2.0 bulb.

Third Place goes to Cage #2. This had a standard tube from AP. (Low color temperature/yellow tinted light)

Fourth place goes to Cage #3 This cage had a high color temperature bulb in it (4200K)

There wasn't a huge difference in the snakes, but The girl that was in total darkness grew a noticeable amount while the others not so much. They didn't eat as regularly as she did. But of course I don't have enough data yet to claim that her growth was due to the lack of artificial light and not something else.

The next update will be in 4 months. Then we will start to get results that might actually mean something!

interesting update....

a few small questions

Was the snake that did the best during the experiment, also your better eating/growing snake before the experiment started?

how are you measuring growth...weight and diameter/length? or just weight?

other than growth/eating habits did you observe any noticeable activity level changes?

Are growth measurements correctly adjusted for snakes varying ages and weights before the experiment started?


Thanks!!

Looking forward to the next set of results!!

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Originally Posted by OsirisRa32

interesting update....

a few small questions

Was the snake that did the best during the experiment, also your better eating/growing snake before the experiment started?

She wasn't eating as consistently, but was about on par with the other female in the test (the other female had similar eating habits before and during the first round of testing)

how are you measuring growth...weight and diameter/length? or just weight?

I am measuring growth by weight in grams, and total length

other than growth/eating habits did you observe any noticeable activity level changes?

Her habits did change some, almost all of my snakes are active between midnight, and 2:00 A.M. Once I put her in total darkness, I have noticed her out and about during the day more often. She also more readily eats at any time of the day vs before when she ate more consistently at night.

Are growth measurements correctly adjusted for snakes varying ages and weights before the experiment started?

All of the BP's in this experiment are around the same age (within 6 months. All are mid - late 2011's) I have 2 males, and 2 females in the experiment. Because of this I am leveling the playing field. I am taking the amount of weight that the snake put on and put it into proportion with the snakes starting weight. Basically I am measuring the % increase in weight. No matter what the starting weight, these numbers can be compared with each other. (I am doing the same for length) I don't measure girth, but that value could be derived by taking the total length of the snake, and dividing it by the total weight. This will tell you how much the snake weighs per inch.


Thanks!!

Looking forward to the next set of results!!

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Thanks for the additional info...glad to see your being quite thorough!

How many individuals are in each group? Unfortunately if there is a small size in each group it wont help much

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Originally Posted by barbie.dragon

How many individuals are in each group? Unfortunately if there is a small size in each group it wont help much

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

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There is only 1 per group. But that is why I am running it 4 times so each snake will have all 4 types of light. This isn't meant to be a lab grade experiment. I'm being as through as possible but I don't have the resources for a large scale test.

This is a clearly long term project I am very interested in results but we as a community need to be patient it will take time.

Aaron, I wonder what it will be like as adults. I personally find sub adult snakes rarely refuse and will often feed even after events that are stressful, (like travelling my latest addition was interested (and fed) they day he was driven 770 Km in a bag. I got him home at 2 pm and he showed interest in feeding (feeding day) so I thawed a pinkie for him and presto.) I have only a few animals under 900gm range refuse at all, it is over that mark that I get refusals. My oldest (20+) refuses regularly. I wonder if the back side might be influenced by this or not. It may take a couple of rounds to get more reliable results. I can't say but with a small sampling it may take a lot of repeated results to make up for that.

I use a 5.0 tropical uvb with my ball during his daylight hours, is that full spectrum?

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

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Originally Posted by DeathByDabs

I use a 5.0 tropical uvb with my ball during his daylight hours, is that full spectrum?

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

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It should tell you on the light bulb's packaging....I would assume not if its specifically just a UVB light bulb......Full spectrum would mean both UVA AND UVB is my understanding...more experienced light ppl please correct me if I am incorrect...

"Tropical" bulbs are going to be full spectrum because they are emitting visible light in addition to UVB light. If UVB light is being emitted, then UVA light is going to be emitted as well - it is "on the way" as far as the spectrum is concerned; to emit UVB and visible light, you also have to emit UVA, as it's the wavelength of light inbetween them.

Fun fact, most bulbs that emit visible light of any kind also usually emit UVA. :)

-Jen

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Originally Posted by LLLReptile

"Tropical" bulbs are going to be full spectrum because they are emitting visible light in addition to UVB light. If UVB light is being emitted, then UVA light is going to be emitted as well - it is "on the way" as far as the spectrum is concerned; to emit UVB and visible light, you also have to emit UVA, as it's the wavelength of light inbetween them.

Fun fact, most bulbs that emit visible light of any kind also usually emit UVA. :)

-Jen

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Ty :)

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Somebody have a lot of confusion!!! Actually they wanted to know What is Full spectrum light?

The term "Full Spectrum" implies that a lamp is designed to produce energy across the full visible spectrum like natural light. This term is often used to describe metal halide arc tube lamps.
Full spectrum light is light that covers the electromagnetic spectrum from infrared to near-ultraviolet, or all wavelengths that are useful to plant or animal life; in particular, sunlight is considered full spectrum, even though the solar spectral distribution reaching Earth changes with time of day, latitude, and atmospheric conditions.

some other Uses of full spectrum light

1. Full spectrum fluorescent lamps are used in the art studio to make sure that the colors they are using appear in their natural hue as they will appear when the painting is displayed in a home or in an art gallery. Full-spectrum lamps are also used by color scientists or color matchers in paint stores to match colors at night or inside when they don't have access to north sunlight.

2. Full spectrum lighting is used both for tropical and marine fish as well as many other water pets. The use of full spectrum lighting assists aquarium plants to grow and aids in the health of the fish and the tank as a whole.

3. Gardening under lights keeps plants blooming almost year-round, for a wintertime harvest. Some plants grow better when given more of a certain color light, due to the mechanism of photosynthesis.

4. Full spectrum lighting has been used in the treatment of seasonal affective disorder (SAD) through the use of "light boxes" that mimic natural sunlight, which may not be available in some areas during the winter months.

I just found this thread, but isn't it time for another update? I'm very interested in the second wave of results. On a side note, I'm curious of the differences in types of bulbs, considering all are full-spectrum. Halogen bulbs for instance, I'm led to believe are more hazardous. Of course I'm also not aware of which ones come full-spectrum.

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Originally Posted by Qoph

I just found this thread, but isn't it time for another update? I'm very interested in the second wave of results. On a side note, I'm curious of the differences in types of bulbs, considering all are full-spectrum. Halogen bulbs for instance, I'm led to believe are more hazardous. Of course I'm also not aware of which ones come full-spectrum.

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I've had to temporally postpone the experiment due to a lightning storm that blew out more than half of the ballasts in my light fixtures. I'm still in the process of getting the fixtures back up and running.

This thread is only looking at linear fluorescent light bulbs.

Most light bulbs are not full spectrum as it requires a special type of quarts glass to allow the lower wavelengths to pass through (or no protective glass at all in the case of some HID lights) . This is one of the reasons why UV and full spectrum bulbs tend to cost more.

Aaron, did you ever get this back on track and get some final results?
I'm curious about this. My snakes are kept with various combinations of heat lamps and UTH, and I've noticed the one without supplementary light is by far the most active during the day. I assumed it was a quirk of the snake, but there might be something to this lighting business.

Ive used a full uv spectrum for 2out of 4 years with my snake. Yes, occasional daytime roaming(ecpecially if you drop the temp a few degrees). After a few months we noticed richer coloration after a shed. Never had a hunger strike. Shes far more relaxed at ALL times like feeding and such when they are in go mode, she dont care lol. We get occasional day time basking. If you pay attention you will notice all kinds of small positive changes.

We use on all tanks snakes, frogs, lizards....
56-65 k grow lights(full spectrum) NOTE: they mainly produce UVA ONLY a uvb must be used
5.0-10.0 zoo med uvb's
And 40w reds for supplemental heat.

It takes a little bit but small behavioral changes will come first. It took about a year before i realized my olive green lady was actually a pretty gold/bronze.

You gotta think all animals, hiders or not, rely on the sun for alot of nutrients, skin development, immune system building, digestion(not just a warm belly) and alot of other vital life functions. So while corner cutting pet owners only get the bare necessities(infuriates me, i want to snap on alot of people but i shut up and be respectful), its better in the long run to simulate "Real Nature" as close as you can.

Give it a whirl and keep an eye on your logbook for changes to begin(if you have a logbook lol)

By the way, full spectrum lamps on humans is an obsolete technology and even artists are hardly using these lamps anymore. Fluorescent has gone leaps and bounds over previous years.
Since in the wild these snakes would occasionally see daylight, it might be for their benefit. The eyes of animals absorb the UV rays and the specific spectrum, at least on daytime animals has a very distinct effect on the body.

Even sleeping next to a blue LED digital clock next to the bed has shown to produce much less quality sleep. Blue wavelengths wake up the mind.

Then its a good thing were discussing uv for snakes and not humans lmao. Theres even current vet/herp studies showing the benefit of full uv on captive reptile/amphibians.

This is interesting. Ive been thinking of installing good broad spectrum light for my bullsnake and my pine. I will probably work my way over to my corns as well.
You use both a uvb and a broad spectrum? Where do you get the grow lights? You must have a gob of fixtures and cords for each cage.
I sure would like to see a picture of the setups.

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Originally Posted by Kris Mclaughlin

Then its a good thing were discussing uv for snakes and not humans lmao. Theres even current vet/herp studies showing the benefit of full uv on captive reptile/amphibians.

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Yeah I was multitasking while writing the last post. I think my point was that animals evolved for a day/night schedule and UV has benefits to life we may not yet understand for nocturnal reptiles.

Its all in the proper fixture. We use mostly exo terra multi switch/socket fixtures. The lid on her tank i made with a few scraps of laminate hardwood and a 1x2. The hood will support a 60w red with no problem if you keep if away from the switch(cheap switches).

Theres a few hydroponics stores in the area so were lucky there. But, plusrite is our brand usually. Google shopping has cases cheap everywhere. I had a better writeup but while looking for the pic on my photobucket my lovely phone refreshed... fml...

Heres a pic of her setup. Ill snag a better one of the bulbs n whatnot from a few tomarrow during my daily poke and prods in the various tanks. Yes the plants are real btw(needs its own thread for that)

http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/...psxq6oma6o.jpg

http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/...pspz69bqvo.jpg

Please pardon the temps being different/low. Shiva was in her feeding tub and the lid was off for a while for the one pic

I've been considering using live plants as well..

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Originally Posted by Boomerang

I've been considering using live plants as well..

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Well, ground crawlers are your friend. Squish proof and can withstand being poked through and trodded Ivy and other crawlers, mosses, palm grass(squish proof its thick and flexible), and the almighty herp favorite pothos. Pothos is almost impossible to kill... As for a taller thicker plant, well that takes experimenting... That pretty cronos has had its better days but refuses to give up so neither will we. Hoping the stalk thickens up some. We are going to possibly give a bromiade or dracendra a try in there too. They have nice thick foilage and a hearty thick stem. The broms develop beautiful bright orange red or yellow top flower/stalks. They also hold pockets of water from the fogger and misting which i forsee being great for humidity. Our girl loves roaming her little forest and seems more at home and comfy the more i thicken the plant life.

The fogger is a $40 ultrasonic humidifier btw.

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Originally Posted by Kris Mclaughlin

Well, ground crawlers are your friend. Squish proof and can withstand being poked through and trodded Ivy and other crawlers, mosses, palm grass(squish proof its thick and flexible), and the almighty herp favorite pothos. Pothos is almost impossible to kill... As for a taller thicker plant, well that takes experimenting... That pretty cronos has had its better days but refuses to give up so neither will we. Hoping the stalk thickens up some. We are going to possibly give a bromiade or dracendra a try in there too. They have nice thick foilage and a hearty thick stem. The broms develop beautiful bright orange red or yellow top flower/stalks. They also hold pockets of water from the fogger and misting which i forsee being great for humidity. Our girl loves roaming her little forest and seems more at home and comfy the more i thicken the plant life.

The fogger is a $40 ultrasonic humidifier btw.

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Oh cool, so you bought a fogger for your ball! I was thinking about doing this, I'm tired of hosing the tank down in the morning and at night just to keep it up above 50% humidity.

Heres the pics as promised. With a new brom and palm grass. She loves her forest and interacts nicely with everything. The light has 2 switches. One for the center. One for the outers. They are always on sale at our petsmart for $35.

Btw. 3power plugs. 2 heat panels and 1light. The fogger has its own deal.

http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/...psjpagylk1.jpg

http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/...pso2rpfwjc.jpg

Currently with fog full bore 85hot 75cold. 56% humidity. Mmmmm perfecto.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

I've borrowed a UVB meter from a friend before I might be able to get ahold it one again.

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hey was there ever any results from the different bulbs?