Your opinion identifying her please ?

I purchased (off Kijiji) what was claimed to be a female pastel BP.(My first snake)
It was purchased December 2011 and we were told it was 1 year old at that time. When he got her home and weighed her, she was just over 300 grams.
Her head was much larger (in proportion) to her body. Today she weighs just over 1500 grams and eats great.... no problems at all.
My question is.... Is she really a pastel ???
I've had a few people say no, but nobody can even guess what she is.
Just throwing it out here to see what you guys think.
Much appreciated.

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...4/nate_315.jpg
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...4/nate_316.jpg
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...4/nate_313.jpg
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...4/nate_312.jpg
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...4/nate_311.jpg
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...4/nate_314.jpg

She's a normal. Sorry

Not the best lighting but I'm gonna say normal. I've been wrong before though.

Thanks, a normal has been ruled out by a professional breeder ..hes thinking either yellow belly, vanilla or a few other possibilities. i was told to breed with my pastel to see the offspring. i know the lighting is bad i will try and take better pics. thanks again.

A professional breeder told you she could be a yellow belly? A professional breeder would know she doesn't even kinda look like yb. I don't see vanilla either. I only see normal.

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I see a normal. No pastel, vanilla or yellow belly. Very healthy girl!

do you have pics from when she was small? just curious what the seller saw in her.

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Originally Posted by Binoo

Thanks, a normal has been ruled out by a professional breeder ..hes thinking either yellow belly, vanilla or a few other possibilities. i was told to breed with my pastel to see the offspring. i know the lighting is bad i will try and take better pics. thanks again.

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I'm not trying to offend, but I would question the "professional" breeder. Not only does it not look anything other than standard normal, even subtle yellow bellies and vanilla looks pretty different. My suggestion is to get on google image search and you will see she is nothing more than normal. You're not the first person to get told their snake was something it was not, in fact you're far from it.

thanks... he didnt say she was yb or vanilla..he said the full white belly, the longer than usual striping on her back and the high blushing with the alien head patterning are characteristics of these other snakes, and others. I don't mean to offend any pros out there, i only meant to state that it wasn't myself trying to identify her. she kinda does look norm in the pics but if you could see her, especially beside a normal, the difference is apparent. my friend said if she is normal, she's the most unusual one he's ever seen. thanks for the input everyone!

She's a very pretty normal, her and your pastel male should make some nice babies. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Binoo

thanks... he didnt say she was yb or vanilla..he said the full white belly, the longer than usual striping on her back and the high blushing with the alien head patterning are characteristics of these other snakes, and others. I don't mean to offend any pros out there, i only meant to state that it wasn't myself trying to identify her. she kinda does look norm in the pics but if you could see her, especially beside a normal, the difference is apparent. my friend said if she is normal, she's the most unusual one he's ever seen. thanks for the input everyone!

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He hasn't seen a lot of normals then. She looks like some of mine. And I don't see ANY blushing on her?

Here's one I produced from pastel to normal:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...t/IMAG0064.jpg

Here's a female normal:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9.../BaileeJan.jpg

and another female normal:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...e/IMG_5170.jpg

This snake has blushing (the lighter brown area on her back)

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...ReeseBlush.jpg

will try to post.. i have a few pics.. the seller was a punk kid who knows less than i do. he said pastel,

Sure looks normal. The only thing I would second guess would be the clear/clean belly. Thats usually a "marker" of some sort.

Standard normal belly, standard normal marking....................NORMAL

Since you have the opinion of a professional breeder (which to me means HE breed for a living) do you mind sharing who this professional breeder is, because I cannot think of any that would tell someone that this snake has either the characteristic of a YB or vanilla.

Normal vary greatly in pattern, colors, belly pattern, blushing and this one show no characteristic of any subtle morph.

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Originally Posted by MS2

Sure looks normal. The only thing I would second guess would be the clear/clean belly. Thats usually a "marker" of some sort.

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Quite a few normals have clear belly's too, normals that are not het for anything.
The OP's snake is a nice normal, nothing out of the ordinary, a nice normal and nothing more.

It's amazing how many people sell normals as pastels :rolleye2:

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...e/P1030186.jpg

Normal;)
And no, this is not Robins snake in the 4th pic but they are close :gj:

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

It's amazing how many people sell normals as pastels :rolleye2:

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It's even more amazing to me that people buy normals that are sold as other morphs. Before anyone gets upset, I know there are a lot of hard to identify morphs out there. Just don't be too shocked when you buy one THEN come here to confirm you bought a morph that is in fact a normal. If the seller is being honest he/she shouldn't mind you posting pics here to get opinions before you buy. Just ask for permission to post pics of animals that aren't yours. If they don't want you to post their pics then that should raise a red flag.

Please don't blame the "punk kid" for not knowing what he has. Maybe he was told that it was a pastel when he bought it. You as the buyer should try to confirm the snake is what the seller says it is through photos, seeing it in person, or posting pics here or on other forums for more experienced opinions. I know you asked a "Professional Breeder". I'm sorry he isn't very experienced or knowledgeable. There is no shame in saying "I don't know...".

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Quite a few normals have clear belly's too, normals that are not het for anything.
The OP's snake is a nice normal, nothing out of the ordinary, a nice normal and nothing more.

It's amazing how many people sell normals as pastels :rolleye2:

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Just stating my opinion. Yes, I would say that snake is very much a normal, but to say it's a normal and nothing more only by looking at the pics:confusd:

Yes, alot of "normals" have clean bellies, but MOST morphs have clean bellies also. With all the crazy morphs out now...gravels, het puma, spector, special,.......You never know if you have something special until you breed it to the right genes.

I think thats how alot of breeders are coming up with all these new morphs. Breeding in large volume and pairing "interesting" looking normals into different gene pools.

Some people just HAVE to know everything!

Sorry, only a normal. There is tons of variation in normals.

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

Sorry, only a normal. There is tons of variation in normals.

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There are tons of variation in morphs also. Show me two of any Ball pythons that look the same. Just saying.........

I can understand your argument, I really can. What we are really trying to do, in our not always perfect way, is to warn you NOT to get convinced it is a morph, then get angry when it isn't. Does that make sense?

We see hundreds of people here all the time, who are convinced their normal is something else. Many of them refuse to believe it, and I can see why. But then, if you choose to breed it thinking it's something that it is not, you come back here dissapointed and angry when things didn't turn out the way you wanted them to. It happens all the time.

What you say is true, no two snakes are exactly the same, whether normal or morph, but try not to discard our combined wisdom at identifying a snake just because it isn't what you want to hear. I myself have normals that look anything but normal. It still doesn't make them a morph, no matter how much I might want it to.

Yes your snake is a real looker, I don't disagree with that. She is big and round and very healthy. But like it or not, she's still just a normal. You can argue the point until you are blue in the face, but that doesn't change the facts. If you prove her to be anything but a normal, I'll eat my husbands dirty hunting socks.

Gale

If you prove her to be anything but a normal, I'll eat my husbands dirty hunting socks.

Gale[/QUOTE]

LMAO...
(I still am working on getting that quote thing down, lol)
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Looks like a normal to me. Not seeing anything else.

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Originally Posted by angllady2

I can understand your argument, I really can. What we are really trying to do, in our not always perfect way, is to warn you NOT to get convinced it is a morph, then get angry when it isn't. Does that make sense?

We see hundreds of people here all the time, who are convinced their normal is something else. Many of them refuse to believe it, and I can see why. But then, if you choose to breed it thinking it's something that it is not, you come back here dissapointed and angry when things didn't turn out the way you wanted them to. It happens all the time.

What you say is true, no two snakes are exactly the same, whether normal or morph, but try not to discard our combined wisdom at identifying a snake just because it isn't what you want to hear. I myself have normals that look anything but normal. It still doesn't make them a morph, no matter how much I might want it to.

Yes your snake is a real looker, I don't disagree with that. She is big and round and very healthy. But like it or not, she's still just a normal. You can argue the point until you are blue in the face, but that doesn't change the facts. If you prove her to be anything but a normal, I'll eat my husbands dirty hunting socks.

Gale

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If this is directed towards me...first off it's not my snake. I could care less if it's normal or not. I just think it's funny how you can show a pic of a snake and have plenty of "experts" and hobbist all say normal. Like there is NO CHANCE it could be hiding something crazy in there just waiting to be unlocked. If this were the case, none of these new morphs would exist.

On the other hand, I post pics all the time and ask for opinions. This site is awesome for that. I think we all have "normals" that we wish were something else, but to just say " normal, nothing more nothing less" is pretty close minded. Definity NOT a Pastel as the OP was asking.

Sorry, I like to have a little bit of hope. The OP may breed it to a Yellow Belly or something along those lines and come up with something new. You never know. That's whats so great about Ball pythons. If the OP were to get something new from her.......I hope you have a good recipe for dirty hunting socks:D

I have a feeling I should make some popcorn and get comfortable. :pc:

There are a few professional breeders here...I'm a professional breeder. This just means you have registered a business name, and you breed snakes to make money. I've been breeding ball pythons since 2007. I have pastels, and a yellowbelly.

That is a normal. It's a pretty normal. Plenty of them have clear bellies. Plenty of them have partial stripes. I have many normal females that look stranger than yours does. Yours does not look anything at all like a yellowbelly, and she is not the right color (IMO) to be a vanilla, either. Besides, no one would accidentally sell you a vanilla as a pastel. Vanillas are worth a great deal more than pastels, and a lot more than normals.

A lot of pet owners believe that 'pastel' just means the snake is lighter and more yellow in color. They don't realize that it's a specific mutation with a definite difference in appearance from a normal ball python. They have no idea what to look for (Just as you did not, when you bought her).

I do hope you did not pay more than $60 for her. If you did then you were scammed. A pastel female would have sold for $200 back then.

The thing is, all those "normals" that hide amazing things have a look about them. Now, naturally you say that proves your point, but it actually proves mine. I've been speaking with a member here who purchased a normal who had a really unique look, he is in the process of proving her genetic. The point is, she doesn't look like every other run of the mill normal. In fact, her looks scream she's hiding something. That is why he chose her. If you spend your life chasing after every normal that looks slightly different, you are going to waste your life. Most true dinkers can be picked out a mile away.

Sure, you can argue any normal could be hiding something, and that is true. But to chase after a 1 in 1,000,000 possibility time after time trying to prove a point seems rather silly to me. Talk to the guys who proved the things like Mystics, Potions, Sables, Chocolates, Laces, het Reds, Yellowbellys, and the other subtle morphs. They will all tell you the snakes that proved genetic had very unique looks to them. They certainly didn't waste their time breeding every slightly different normal hoping to find something. That is also the reason 99% of dinkers never prove out. Because the fact is most normals are just that, normal.

Gale

Your point is well taken and very true. I'm not tring to argue the fact that "this snake" is something other than a normal. The only thing that bothers me is when someone shows a pic, and it's not a morph, everyone chimes in NORMAL.

When I see pics of baby morphs (sable, gravel, special, spector), heck I've been hatching them for years! All unproven ofcourse and I sell them as normal unless I proved them out. I'm also not into chasing the 1 in 1,000,000 dream. I'm sure everyone here would love to have that special "normal looking" snake in their collection that produces something crazy. Something like a hidden gene.

Personally I would like to get to the point were producing normals is a very small percentage.(or not at all)

I love to hear input from all the people on this site, thats what makes this forum so great. You can post pics and get peoples opinion from all over the world.

A normal is a noraml........unless is het for something. I think JK Reptiles had a pastel that he didn't know was het for Pied. Yes I believe he did say it looked a little different, bred back to mom and produced Pastel Pieds. Don't qoute me on this, it's been a while since I seen the story.

My favorite is the Pastel female Ben Rennick has. She looks as normal as normal gets, but throws some of the most outrageous Pastel offspring. I've seen her in person, and absolutely nothing about her even hints at Pastel.

One of the things that makes breeding these guys so entertaining.

Gale

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Originally Posted by MS2

Your point is well taken and very true. I'm not tring to argue the fact that "this snake" is something other than a normal. The only thing that bothers me is when someone shows a pic, and it's not a morph, everyone chimes in NORMAL.

When I see pics of baby morphs (sable, gravel, special, spector), heck I've been hatching them for years! All unproven ofcourse and I sell them as normal unless I proved them out. I'm also not into chasing the 1 in 1,000,000 dream. I'm sure everyone here would love to have that special "normal looking" snake in their collection that produces something crazy. Something like a hidden gene.

Personally I would like to get to the point were producing normals is a very small percentage.(or not at all)

I love to hear input from all the people on this site, thats what makes this forum so great. You can post pics and get peoples opinion from all over the world.

A normal is a noraml........unless is het for something. I think JK Reptiles had a pastel that he didn't know was het for Pied. Yes I believe he did say it looked a little different, bred back to mom and produced Pastel Pieds. Don't qoute me on this, it's been a while since I seen the story.

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I understand your point for sure. But if people see a normal that's what they are going to say it is. If it is het something, most people would just be grabbing at straws trying to guess what it is.

Point is, if its not a visual dom/codom/recessive or a reputable breeder sold it as a het or a het produced by you, then it's a normal until bred and proven otherwise.

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Originally Posted by angllady2

My favorite is the Pastel female Ben Rennick has. She looks as normal as normal gets, but throws some of the most outrageous Pastel offspring. I've seen her in person, and absolutely nothing about her even hints at Pastel.

One of the things that makes breeding these guys so entertaining.

Gale

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Was his Pastel bought as a Pastel or did it look normal until he bred it and produced Pastels?

Perhaps she is a paradox pastel. (Some paradoxes are the result of genetic mosaicism, where two embryos fuse during early development, and thus have 2 sets of DNA in their bodies--her reproductive cells may belong to her sister, in other words).

If there's poo flinging going on in here, I'm in!

Just wanted to take a moment here to remind the OP to clean under his fingernails every now and then.