In the nude! what do you think?

So I wrote and re-wrote this thread. I said a lot of preachy things, I tried to express my opinion, and I deleted it all. 3x in fact.

So without further ado I have edited it down to this:

Skinny VS Fat..and somewhere in between; in relation to the female form both personally, media and body image, as well as recent women's empowerment campaigns.

I would love to hear everyone's opinion on this, thought I would like to keep the discussion civil and honest. If someone ruffles your feathers just try to counter with an educated response.
Thanks!

If that is supposed to be a link it's not working for me :(

Edit: Nvm..I'm an idiot... >_> Will post opinion in different post...

If this takes off it should be a fun thread to say the least lmao :D

I think girls/women are treated very unfairly by the media and their portrayal of what a "beautiful" woman should look like. In my honest opinion i do NOT find Victoria's Secret models or other models with that "body type" attractive. The whole tall and skinny thing is weird. First of all, im only 5'10" so if i have to look up to see her then thats annoying lol. As far as the skinnyness thats fine if youre a healthy skinny, i know plenty of girls that are bc of genes or athleticism. If i can see all your ribs and bones sticking out bc youre starving yourself to be a model then thats gross. Youre not a healthy skinny, youre not athletic, you have an eating disorder and are just contributing to the inncorrect mental image of what a woman should look like according to the media in america.

As far as my concern...there are many different approaches and situations to this topic. As far as the media, models, and etc goes..honestly I could care less what they are showing. They are all airbrushed, photo-shopped, professional make-up / hair etc. It is fantasy, not reality. I tell my girls that as well. I show them on the computer how much you can change an image, and how that image is no longer "real" (we give animals different parts, like unicorn horns etc). I let them know that those women, are real women, but the pictures are not real anymore. What irritates me more than the media and models in magazines is toys. And no, I don't mean Barbie. I mean those toys called BRATZ dolls that make thug and gangster style clothes seem cool, and being snotty seem "ok". Not only do they have giant heads, big eyes with insane amounts of make up, and fat lips (duck faces...duck faces everywhere) but they glorify being a rude little snot ball. Grinds my gears man.

Now, enough with the parent talk...

As far as women empowerment...honestly I think most of it is a crock. Do I think women should get paid the same as men if they are doing the exact same job with the exact same output? yes. Do I think a woman should be paid the same as a man, when the man is doing a better job? Hell no. Would I expect to be paid the same at a construction site as a man when I can only lift about 40lbs? Nope. Do I think that's sexist? Nope. That's work. If I can't do the job as well as whomever else, then I don't deserve the same amount of money as that person. We ARE different. Men and women, and people trying to say we are not are just putting blinders on. Are there some extraordinary women that can out bench most men? You betcha. But say you had the same level of extraordinary man doing the same benching as the woman...guess who's going to win that strength competition... :rolleyes: It's not insulting, it's biology.

Body image is everyone's personal opinion. Some people prefer big women, some people prefer tiny, some prefer in the middle. There's nothing right or wrong about any choice, there is majority vs minority of opinion..but no wrong or right. If 80% of the population's favorite color is blue...does that mean the people who like green are wrong?

Maybe I don't expose myself to enough social media to get all fired up about what they are showing celebs doing etc...I'm sorry, I just don't give 2 poops about what celebs are doing, or wearing, or saying... I make my own decisions on what to wear, how to act, where to eat and how I like my hair.

I like being small, and if and when I gain weight, I will work to be small again. Not because I think big women aren't pretty, but because I know how I want to look. If that makes me shallow, then I guess I'm shallow. I want to be comfortable in my own skin. If my husband puts on 50lbs I would still think he's a sexy beast. If he wants to work out and diet, that's fine too. If either of us got unhealthily large, we would help each other get back to a safe area.

To sum it up...

women and men are different, everyone should be judged on their ability to do their job, or school, rather than race, gender etc
attractiveness is a matter of opinion
the media doesn't effect my way of life or thoughts
I couldn't care less about celebs, models etc
I like being small
I like cake

Without getting too up or down on the media portrayal of women(cuz that would turn in to a rant), I will just say that women look best when they have some curves. Not meant in a pervy way either. I just mean that I don't want to be able to count ribs or see hip bones, etc.

As, the father of two young daughters, both of whom dance ballet, and both of whom are thin and quite psychically fit from dancing ballet, I find it sad and disturbing how many times a day they are told by someone (namely some random boys) at school how they are fat. And how they are actually worried that it's true.
That is a direct result of the crap on TV and in movies and other print media showing certain women looking a certain way that frankly is quite unrealistic and unhealthy for must normal people.


Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk 2

Omg some of the teenage girls at my work we hire are ridiculous. Im not sure if its a coincidence or not but the guys we hire are way better workers. These chicks we bring in have zero work ethic and cant ever hope to get paid the same as a man at a real job if he's working harder than them. Although most of my generation is pretty lazy anyways so who knows. What you get paid should be based off of how hard of a worker you are and how good you are at the job rather than your sex/race/age.

Personally, I just like women don't really have a preferance
Media, is a poor measue of what a woman should be.
Body image, has more to do with what,who and how a woman is taught to look for the measure of woman's body

Rosey,

It is refreshing to see someone with that realistic view. I work in a male dominated profession and hate hearing a tiny 4 foot nothing 90 pound girl say she is the same on my job. I have no problem working with a women a long as she can do the work. I feel the same about a guy of the same stature. It's frustrating to do your work and pick up the slack of another for the same pay.

Now the topic at hand.

I don't see what the media or Hollywood calls beautiful as that. My fiance used to record the Victoria Secret fashion show for me thinking I would enjoy it and thought it weird when I told her I would pass.

Now my inter caveman.

I like a curvy girl that does not look like she needs someone to buy her a cheeseburger. A girl under 5-5 with a muscular athletic build. I also love a women with a top and bottom that stick out. ;) Skinny girls have never really done it for me and I will choose a girl with meat on her bones everytime.

Put girls with meat on their bones in the fashion shows and I bet their ratings would rise. I know I would watch.

On the other side.

I do think that men and women are now really having the issue of to much meat. Our nation is becoming fat and the amount of children that are obese is concerning. People need to educate themselves and their children and try to lead healthy lives. Big may be beautiful but that does not mean it is healthy. I Think the movie Wall-E might have an accurate portrayal of our future. Everybody riding hovering chairs with no bones.

Wait, so unicorns aren't real!? :O :rofl:

I do like women to be very fit, but that doesn't only mean skinny. There is a female soldier that I work with right now that has fairly developed lats and some of the guys call her a guy. She is incredibly fit and I find her very attractive. I also can appreciate a woman that is more thin without a lot of muscle tone, and I've dated women with that body type, and within that body type women that were both well endowed in the chest and that weren't. I feel that the reason that I won't walk up to an unfit (or overweight) female and strike up a conversation is because you can't see a lot of the features that we as humans look for in the opposite sex, and I'll go into that in depth here.

For me I believe that it is a matter of what we as humans look for in potential mates (here is the evolutionary biologist coming out). Men and women alike are biologically inclined to look at the oppostie sex in terms of what they have to offer us (genetically speaking). A man with strong, symmetrical features is genetically healthy and women find this attractive. For men, we find things that are femenine attractive, especially larger breasts, as they will be able to provide life giving milk to any potential offspring, and this is again a result of good genetics. Keep in mind that this "assessment of potential mates" happens in a few seconds when we see a member of the opposite sex for the first time.

Ultimately, I've dated skinnier girls, but most of my girlfriends have been between 5'6" and 5'8" and not skinny. They are athletic and have meat on their bones (and by meat I mean muscle, not fat), and on average wiegh in at around 140-150 pounds. This is what I personally find attractive, and I won't go into media because I can't stand the idiocy that is main stream media. I don't even own a TV!

I'm short (5'7"), so I like girls that are shorter than I am. I've tried to be the big spoon when the little spoon was bigger than me. It's mechanically frustrating.

The media is a joke. The influence on youth and body image is quite unfortunate. I'd write a book if I started on this topic. It makes women who are desirable to decent men think that they're inadequate and they become envious of women that just plain suck, to put it simply. You don't want a guy who wants a body, you want a guy who wants you. You can sit and laugh and mock at the women who think otherwise and devote their energy to it once you make this realization. That's the kind of girl that's attractive to me.

More importantly is the idea that people are envious of things they simply should not be envious of. Those people end up on TV and magazines because they're entertaining, not because they're higher value than anyone else. Do you know what kind of guy creates a happy relationship with one of those snotty, duck lipped, drama-loving, clown-painted women? I've been friends with some of them. You don't want them.

That was my realization recently. Only in the last few years (I'm 26 now) did my brain change its version of what is attractive to me. Personality is much more attractive than physical form. Post-realization I'd say my only physical requirements are that a girl look healthy. Too skinny and too heavy, too much make-up or too nice of clothes, too baggy of clothes, etc are all signs of personality flaws. I'll pass on those, too.

All that said, I do prefer women with a healthy grip to them. I want them to be soft, but to still be able to identify muscle and bone beneath. Man that sounds weird to put in such... scientific terms lol

I like women. Simple as that. My wife is probably IFBB quality as far as fitness goes and her body type. She is FIT! And a fitness fanatic. But she does pageants too. I like a woman who is comfortable with herself and is confident but not conceited. Confidence is sexy. But the important part is that a lady takes care of herself. I dont like a woman who cakes her face in make up. Every woman should only go light on the make up as too much is not attractive! While I do like em fit I also like some curves and I like em natural. Fake girls are a total turnoff.

Well.. I will give you my honest to to God answer..... It is the same thing I tell both of my pre-teen daughters and pound it into their heads.....

Beauty is not what you look like, but what is inside. I have dated women in my life that run as wide a variance as 6ft tall and 115 lbs, and 5ft tall and 160...... Was one more beautiful than the other.... Not really, they were both beautiful people with amazing personalities.

I understand that this thread is more meaning to discuss phsyical attraction and visual stimuli. That being said I just cant force my self to be attracted one of the "hot model types" if they have crappy attitudes and are just not nice people.

Take it for what you will, I learned a lesson early in life, I dated I probably should have married when I was younger, but my ego screwed that relationship up..... She was a biger girl, close to 6ft and not thin, but not heavy, very attactive. But I didnt stay with her because I thought I could find someone better looking... I have regretted that the rest of my life. We had something special we truly cared about one another and were best friends....That is what is truly beautiful

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Well.. I will give you my honest to to God answer..... It is the same thing I tell both of my pre-teen daughters and pound it into their heads.....

Beauty is not what you look like, but what is inside. I have dated women in my life that run as wide a variance as 6ft tall and 115 lbs, and 5ft tall and 160...... Was one more beautiful than the other.... Not really, they were both beautiful people with amazing personalities.

I understand that this thread is more meaning to discuss phsyical attraction and visual stimuli. That being said I just cant force my self to be attracted one of the "hot model types" if they have crappy attitudes and are just not nice people.

Take it for what you will, I learned a lesson early in life, I dated I probably should have married when I was younger, but my ego screwed that relationship up..... She was a biger girl, close to 6ft and not thin, but not heavy, very attactive. But I didnt stay with her because I thought I could find someone better looking... I have regretted that the rest of my life. We had something special we truly cared about one another and were best friends....That is what is truly beautiful

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Originally Posted by Andybill

I like women. Simple as that. My wife is probably IFBB quality as far as fitness goes and her body type. She is FIT! And a fitness fanatic. But she does pageants too. I like a woman who is comfortable with herself and is confident but not conceited. Confidence is sexy. But the important part is that a lady takes care of herself. I dont like a woman who cakes her face in make up. Every woman should only go light on the make up as too much is not attractive! While I do like em fit I also like some curves and I like em natural. Fake girls are a total turnoff.

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I figured you just married your wife for her epic looking eyes... :rofl:

No but really, theyre sick looking :gj:

EDIT: i should also add i agree with what you said here. Not just trying to derail the thread lol.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

I figured you just married your wife for her epic looking eyes... :rofl:

No but really, theyre sick looking :gj:

EDIT: i should also add i agree with what you said here. Not just trying to derail the thread lol.

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Haha! Yeah I tell her that when I need a vacation I go swimming in her eyes! They are like tropical waters man! Kinda cheesy, I know, but it works well for me :D

But on more of the topic she was not so fit when I got with her 6 years ago. But she was still smokin hot! Curvy with some meat on her. But when we both joined the Marines she became a fitness fanatic.

I really like how this devolved quite quickly into guys saying what they like appearance wise in a woman. Very good way to make women who don't meet the general "like" of curvy, feel insecure about themselves.

As a 40 something wife and mother and woman I will try and enter this conversation.

I despise general media and their portrayal of women in general. According to them, only skinny blonde, blue eyed women with giant fake breasts and pouty lips that have nasty attitudes and chase after old rich men are acceptable. It's disgusting. All day long you are bombarded with so-called reality shows filled with fake women who scream obscenities and throw things at one another. With women who lie, cheat, steal and sleep with anything that has boy parts. And people watch this garbage. They must or there wouldn't be so many of them on. Young girls are taught that you must be mean, selfish, rude and dress like a slut to be acceptable. I fight it with my own daughter every day.

I find most men, most real-life men anyway, are not attracted to this type of girl at all. Now I am not attractive, not by a long shot. I've never thought of myself as pretty. I've been rather heavy most of my life, and now I am fat. I don't deny it. I never understood what my husband saw in me when we met. But, I must have something going for me because I still get a flirt now and then. Makes me feel good. And I will tell you a secret. On the day of my wedding, I was getting ready to leave. I had my dress on, my hair fixed, a little bit of makeup, and when I looked in the mirror I saw something incredible. I was beautiful. I don't mean pretty, I mean beautiful. I couldn't believe it, but on that one day the ugly duckling became a swan.

I find it sad that so many pretty girls don't think they are worthwhile because they don't live up to the unrealistic things they see on TV and in magazines, billboards and in movies. It's a sad comment on the state of our lives when our children feel worthless if they are polite, respectful and dress tactfully.

Gale

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

Maybe I don't expose myself to enough social media to get all fired up about what they are showing celebs doing etc...I'm sorry, I just don't give 2 poops about what celebs are doing, or wearing, or saying... I make my own decisions on what to wear, how to act, where to eat and how I like my hair.

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I agree with every comment you stated haha. Everything I was thinking, but was incapable of wording it in a way that makes sense, is in your reply :P. I'm just going to add to the quoted section simply to add to it. The shows on TV are getting worse and worse.. I remember when I would watch TV, if you wanted to watch and laugh at stupid people, you would watch shows like Jerry Springer, and the "my 14 year old daughter had sex with 60 men!" Maury specials.. Nowadays, these shows have been replaced with shows like the jersey shore, the hills, or that show about the Kardashians...

They used to ridicule the idiots, and now they pay them so they can record them doing stupid things... There's nobody there to say "THESE PEOPLE ARE IDIOTS.." instead, they end the episodes with "happy endings" where snooki goes back to the club and finally succeeds in bringing a big buff guy to their house...

TV is just going downhill.. People are getting dumber every year in the US.. Kids are STILL extremely impressionable.. I'm not a parent, so I'm not qualified to give advice, but in my opinion, parents need to educate their kids about the media, and how the people who dish out the garbage make their money... My dad gave me the talk about adult content when I was 13 haha. He explained how people on TV or in videos are actors. He made it a point to give me national geographic magazines and DVDs.. He lectured me quite often about the jungles of Peru, the importance of the advancements in medicine, and how unfathomable the size of the universe is.. He convinced me that aliens existed, and that they were probably more super intelligent than humans when I was 9 or 10.. I liked his approach.. Rather than telling me not to do something, he educated me on the consequences...

Wow sorry for the rant.. I just think the power of the media is crazy. That must be why some families don't allow TVs.. Educate your children :gj:... Intelligence boosts confidence.. Women are beautiful creatures. All of you are. Big or small, short or tall..

Haha I think this is what Sissysnakes felt like when she erased her posts :D.

I like women. I prefer some attributes more than others, but I don't judge much by looks alone.

I often wonder if women wonder why they worry so much about what some people who only want to separate them from their money, tell them about how they look now, how they should look and what they need to buy to look that way.

It's all predicated on sales. Sell a woman makeup so she'll be attractive enough to ....have worth? Because of some paint?

Sell her some dental floss and a couple of postage stamps so she'll be...sexy? Because some clown somewhere says so?

Sell her weightloss programs, food, drugs so she will be able to fit into the dental floss and postage stamps that no woman could ever catch a worthwhile man without...

Hammer her with images, some of which have no basis in reality, none of which are actual live women, slam her with advice from made up foundations and batter her with advice from people who have no business having an opinion much less cramming it down the throats of so many who are so insecure because, and only because, of what they've been told they need to look like by a bunch of rich old men who make money every time an insecure woman buys something she needs to enable her to be the woman a real man wants, not some, to quote one of my favorites, 'some syntho in the hay.'

Ladies, there are men out there who realize that what you see in the media is much akin to what you see on your shoe when you leave the dogpark. Sadly, there are also a great many weeny waggers who have no clue, mostly due to age, stupidity and inexperience, along with simply being male, who have not yet realized that a woman who needs an hour and a half to paint her face and another hour to figure out what she's going to wear just to go out, is probably pretty high maintenance and may be pretty shallow as well. But, what you, ladies, think of yourselves is what's really important. No matter what you look like, if you like yourself, you're attractive to other people.

What we're told, by people whose advice I would never take for any reason, is that A and B and C are the best ways to be and if you're E or F or, heaven forfend, G or I or Q, you'll grow old alone, childless and the laughing stalk of all the beautiful people who wear three pounds of war paint any time they go out in public and dress only in celebrity approved wrappings that no sane person would be caught dead in. These face corporate suckers of cash and souls alike, and indiscriminately, care nothing for you, ladies, but have a great care for how you think. How you think of yourself and how you think of what they sell that they go to great lengths to convince you you need to be happy. It's a bloody shell game.

Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder, but it starts with the confidence of the beheld. Confidence. If you've got that, you don't really need anything else because you realize that you have within what can't be bought or applied with a putty knife or achieved with seven thousand shades of brown you're constantly told you need to cover up the grey that comes naturally, that actually, usually, brings a beauty along with it. Not being young is OK. No matter what you do or what you buy or how many surgeries you have, you WILL age, you will change. It's going to happen.

I've been pondering this subject for quite a while and will probably address it further sometime in the near future. Back to the point, I like women. Some shapes and sizes I favor more than others, but the inside is always more important than the outside.

I like women in terms of attraction, regardless of the packaging; attitude is everything and the rest is just bonus.

The media...ha! Where to start with that one?! I think the media is the single greatest threat to children in terms of nearly everything. When a child is inundated with images of scantily clad women with implants from top to bottom along with commercials extolling the virtues of the latest and greatest:_________________ (clothing line/brand, makeup, sports drink, cereal, car, social media site/device, etc.), when do they have time to form their own opinions or to learn what really matters in life? The media is a joke as far as I'm concerned and the parents that buy into that crap and want to be their kids' friend instead of their parent(s) are equally responsible for raising a generation of self-absorbed narcissists who expect an Ipod at 10, a cell phone at 12 and a new car of their choosing at 16, along with any and every possible name-brand item that is the current rage at the time. I'd rather take my kids fishing or help them with a 4-H project or just hang out with them and teach them what it means to be a person rather than plop them down in front of a computer or T.V. and have the media at large raise my child for me.

As to women's empowerment: I'm all for it. I fully support women doing any and every job they're capable of doing and for a fair and competitive salary/wage. If a woman can do the job how it needs to be done, then where's the issue? I can't (and have no desire to!) carry a child. My wife can't write her name in the snow. Biology is what it is but as far as jobs go: so long as the work is getting done in an acceptable manner and to the same level of accuracy that's expected of anyone, the pay should be the same regardless of the plumbing of the person performing the work.

I was watching family guy just now, and Peter went on this little route at the end of the episode:

"Peter Griffin: If you're watching a TV show, and you decide to take your values from that, you're an idiot. Maybe you should take responsibility for what values your kids are getting. Maybe you shouldn't be letting your kids watch certain shows in the first place if you have such a big problem with them, instead of blaming the shows themselves. "

Thought it was a pretty funny coincidence :P.

people are not that stupid are they? if your not a model, then your simply not. these women, girls will realize it one day that they will not and cannot look like the models in magazines. airbrushing does not make a big difference either. it is still their face their body. so the best thing for these below-average looking woman is better start reading a lot of books and do good in school not worrying about their appearance.

Clearly, you've never seen what photoshop can do.

I don't mind a little baggage, I don't want to see rolls of fat bouncing around as they walk down the street.

I have really enjoyed everyones comments so far!

Now for my two cents: For all you guys hatin on tall women you dont know what you are missing! lol lol

It is not just our girls who are effected by the media and the overall absurd concept of a "feminine" figure. I remember a great amount of teasing from boys in JH and High School and later even boyfriends (in HS) centered around girls who did not fit the mold. I think it is wonderful that you want to educate your girls on body image, but I think the boys often need some educating as well. They are effected just as much as our girls, and can have an effect on our girls with out knowing any better.

Not to mention men also get pressured to look a certain way, i had a friend in school who became anorexic and had to leave. He got teased so much for being fat that he stopped eating, and he wasn't fat to begin with. I know that it is unusual for men to develop these types of disorders, but the message is still there.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

I really like how this devolved quite quickly into guys saying what they like appearance wise in a woman. Very good way to make women who don't meet the general "like" of curvy, feel insecure about themselves.

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The thread is created by a woman and discussing female body image. What other way would a man chime in than to explain their point of view towards women? Should we just say 'you're beautiful inside no matter what!' I did not get the impression that was the goal of the thread. People are being honest. Most of the men chiming in are more or less saying that looks aren't as important as most women and the media make them out to be, anyway.

Marilyn Monroe = hot I think that explains how my view on body image.

In the words of Forrest Gump: "And thats all I got to say about that"

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Originally Posted by MrLang

The thread is created by a woman and discussing female body image. What other way would a man chime in than to explain their point of view towards women? Should we just say 'you're beautiful inside no matter what!' I did not get the impression that was the goal of the thread. People are being honest. Most of the men chiming in are more or less saying that looks aren't as important as most women and the media make them out to be, anyway.

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If looks aren't important, then why the need to say "I like x"?

My statement wasn't one that was formed from this thread alone. I browse many forums, and this isn't the first time I've seen a conversation such as this pop up. In the rest of them, the general consensus was that curvy = good, everything else = bad.

Since we're being honest, here's my take on things. If you've got kickin' curves, awesome. Guys are going to be all over you. If you don't, well, too bad, so sad. Regardless of what people are trying to say, looks are important. It's a proven scientific fact. We're genetically hardwired to find certain shapes attractive. Unfortunately, those that aren't lucky enough to get the genes get kicked to the curb.

Look i get both sides going on here but i am tired of saying real women have curves.. i am a real woman i am 5'10" i weigh 120-130lbs. It works i am healthy.. yes i have been a model, have done runways .. i do watch what i eat but i also feel better when my diet is clean not say i don't love food and cooking. Like the guys have said everyone has their preferences and anything on the extreme of fat or skinny is out of the norm of attraction which is fine. But just as much as its wrong to pick on women that are larger, don't pick on the skinny girls either. If we are healthy its ok. I am tall and its hard to find guys ok with it or as tall as or taller than me. I also understand my body type isn't for every man/woman. I know what i like and someone can be attractive without being what I am attracted to. Variety is teh spice of life. As long as we are healthy no one should be that concerned unless you want their number ;)

I think either way a woman needs to be comfortable in her own skin. I know, I know! Easier said than done! I'm probably in the best shape that I have been since before having my son 6 years ago, but I still look in the mirror and see flaws! I'm 5'6" and have been as skinny as 115 lbs (pre-child lol) and as heavy as 200 lbs (post-child lol). I am now sitting comfortably at about 135-140 lbs. I know how hard it is to be a bean pole and how difficult it is to be heavy. I think no matter where women are on their scale they will see their flaws, usually 10x worse than they actually are. Some of the most beautiful women I've ever seen have no shape to them, and some were very heavy! Beauty is how you carry yourself. I have seen some super model standard women that were the ugliest backstabbing female dogs I've ever met. I may not be 100% comfortable with how I look all the time, but I sure can sleep at night knowing that I am a decent, hardworking, caring human being.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

If looks aren't important, then why the need to say "I like x"?

My statement wasn't one that was formed from this thread alone. I browse many forums, and this isn't the first time I've seen a conversation such as this pop up. In the rest of them, the general consensus was that curvy = good, everything else = bad.

Since we're being honest, here's my take on things. If you've got kickin' curves, awesome. Guys are going to be all over you. If you don't, well, too bad, so sad. Regardless of what people are trying to say, looks are important. It's a proven scientific fact. We're genetically hardwired to find certain shapes attractive. Unfortunately, those that aren't lucky enough to get the genes get kicked to the curb.

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This imo, is a perfect example of how NOT to live. I'm a small girl. 5'3, 105lbs. By no means "curvy". I used to have a low self esteem like I am assuming you do (I apologize if my assumption is incorrect, but your demeanor in your posts have been that of someone who doesn't find worth in themselves) This thread didn't "devolve" into what men like, it's just men can't sit there and say how the media makes them feel about themselves as a women (you know..since they aren't) And most women aren't going to sit there and say what they think is attractive in another women, because most of them aren't attracted to women..So everyone's comments have been pretty on par with a thread such as this thus far. (I cannot speak for the other forums from which you say you've read similar threads obviously)

So guys on a forum like curvy women. So what? Being a tiny person myself, I never felt I was "kicked to the curb" because I wasn't large breasted and plump bootied. There are PLENTY of men out there, good men, who are attracted to every shape. I think the reasoning behind most men coming out in a thread like this saying how they like curves has nothing to do with everything else being sub par. But more about them proving to the OP that not all men like the super skinny chicks like the media likes to show.

I'll be 100% honest here, I did have a low self esteem with my first husband. He told me every day how I was lucky to have him, and how no one else would be interested in me. After hearing that for 4 years you start to believe it. When I finally woke up and left him, I did a lot of soul searching. (mind you, mostly in the form of bar hopping and excessive partying..) Anyways, I realized there where a whole slew of men who would be happy to have me. (no I don't mean like THAT...I mean guys interested in me and dating etc ;) ) My self esteem started to come back up and I felt great. Then I met my husband Bill, and from that moment on my self esteem was much higher. I felt good about myself. I discussed it with him, and I went and got breast implants a while after having my second kiddo. It was a mommy's day present to myself, and though Bill didn't want me to do it, he knew it would make me feel that much better about myself. I didn't do it because I thought guys would like it more, I did it because it's what I wanted. It's what I wanted to see when I looked in the mirror, and I really don't give a hoot what others think. I didn't go crazy, and people who didn't know me pre op are super surprised when/if they find out. Does this make me a bad person and fake? Well, not to me. It might to you, or people in general, but honestly, I don't care. I am who I am, and as long as I'm happy with what I see in the mirror, I will not let anyone bring me down. Never again.

If you are unhappy with yourself, fix it. Don't let other people tell you what men want, in the end, who cares what men want. I care what I want, and I found a man who wants that too. Woot! When you are happy with yourself, you shine. Whether you're 100lbs, or 300lbs. You SHINE. Confidence and self esteem are worth more than anything. After all, how can you expect to love another, when you can't even love yourself? (I know I stole that line from somewhere, but I can't remember...so...whoops)

And Raptor, this whole reply wasn't meant directly at you. It's just your comments about devolving, and getting kicked to the curb metaphorically, reminded me so much of something I would have said 6 years ago...
Yes, looks are important. To a degree. They are the first impression. That doesn't mean that one type looks better than another, that is all based entirely on opinion. Looks are the cover of the book, they get your attention, but what's on the inside is what keeps your gaze and gets you to keep turning pages.

Sorry for the baggage dump LOL *packs up*

I'll keep my opinion short and to the point...
I like a sturdy girl; I'm 6'4" and about 250 lbs...I might break a skinny girl. ;)

For the record, I do prefer slender women. However, I have seriously dated women who weren't, women who were as tall as I am, 6ft, and veritable midgets, 4'10", heavy and not so much.

A confident woman, size not withstanding, is far more attractive than one who questions her worth based on her looks.

The advice I give my offspring, as well as anyone who wants it, is to totally ignore EVERYONE and make up your own mind about how you feel about yourself.

I'm a bit on the fat side, I work out, am stronger and in better shape than I look and don't give a rat's patootie what anyone else thinks of me. I know I'm a good guy on the inside and were I looking for a steady, it would be important for me to see in someone I wanted a relationship with regardless of whether she was tall, short, heavy, thin or any colour of the rainbow. I may be genetically hardwired to look for certain attributes, but I am also a thinking man who is capable of making my own decisions based solely on my own feelings and totally disregarding what anyone else says I should think.

The standards set by society and the media are a crock. Real women rock. I'll take a real chick over a plasticine model every time.

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Originally Posted by mikeandsheleen

I'll keep my opinion short and to the point...
I like a sturdy girl; I'm 6'4" and about 250 lbs...I might break a skinny girl. ;)

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Sorry but this reminded me of rocky IV.

"I must break you." lmao

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

This imo, is a perfect example of how NOT to live. I'm a small girl. 5'3, 105lbs. By no means "curvy". I used to have a low self esteem like I am assuming you do (I apologize if my assumption is incorrect, but your demeanor in your posts have been that of someone who doesn't find worth in themselves)

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Lol. You're not tiny. I'm tiny. I'm 4'11" and a little over 80 pounds. I have zero curves, in fact, I'm built like boy that hasn't hit puberty. Bony? That too. No, I don't have much. Even as a child I didn't. What little I manage to scrape up tends to get obliterated by my family.

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I'll be 100% honest here, I did have a low self esteem with my first husband. He told me every day how I was lucky to have him, and how no one else would be interested in me. After hearing that for 4 years you start to believe it. When I finally woke up and left him, I did a lot of soul searching. (mind you, mostly in the form of bar hopping and excessive partying..) Anyways, I realized there where a whole slew of men who would be happy to have me. (no I don't mean like THAT...I mean guys interested in me and dating etc ;) ) My self esteem started to come back up and I felt great. Then I met my husband Bill, and from that moment on my self esteem was much higher. I felt good about myself. I discussed it with him, and I went and got breast implants a while after having my second kiddo. It was a mommy's day present to myself, and though Bill didn't want me to do it, he knew it would make me feel that much better about myself. I didn't do it because I thought guys would like it more, I did it because it's what I wanted. It's what I wanted to see when I looked in the mirror, and I really don't give a hoot what others think. I didn't go crazy, and people who didn't know me pre op are super surprised when/if they find out. Does this make me a bad person and fake? Well, not to me. It might to you, or people in general, but honestly, I don't care. I am who I am, and as long as I'm happy with what I see in the mirror, I will not let anyone bring me down. Never again.

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I get told fairly often by my mother that the only way anyone will be interested in me is if I wear make up and completely change my wardrobe ("no one is interested in a woman that wears boys clothing" nevermind that's the only thing that fits me). This was further driven home at christmas when I was given nothing but makeup. Which I've only touched once for an awards ceremony.

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If you are unhappy with yourself, fix it. Don't let other people tell you what men want, in the end, who cares what men want. I care what I want, and I found a man who wants that too. Woot! When you are happy with yourself, you shine. Whether you're 100lbs, or 300lbs. You SHINE. Confidence and self esteem are worth more than anything. After all, how can you expect to love another, when you can't even love yourself? (I know I stole that line from somewhere, but I can't remember...so...whoops)

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Well, I'm not going to get taller and I can't stand heels in the least bit, so that's not going to change. I once dyed my hair green because it made me happy. When I was done, I was told by a family member to "come here so I can see how ugly you are". Love is really a strong word. I'm really only interested in companionship since I don't really have a wide range of emotions.

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And Raptor, this whole reply wasn't meant directly at you. It's just your comments about devolving, and getting kicked to the curb metaphorically, reminded me so much of something I would have said 6 years ago...
Yes, looks are important. To a degree. They are the first impression. That doesn't mean that one type looks better than another, that is all based entirely on opinion. Looks are the cover of the book, they get your attention, but what's on the inside is what keeps your gaze and gets you to keep turning pages.

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Then I'm up a metaphorical crap creek. I'm not that great on the outside, and the inside, well, that's enough to scare some people.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

Lol. You're not tiny. I'm tiny. I'm 4'11" and a little over 80 pounds. I have zero curves, in fact, I'm built like boy that hasn't hit puberty. Bony? That too. No, I don't have much. Even as a child I didn't. What little I manage to scrape up tends to get obliterated by my family.



I get told fairly often by my mother that the only way anyone will be interested in me is if I wear make up and completely change my wardrobe ("no one is interested in a woman that wears boys clothing" nevermind that's the only thing that fits me). This was further driven home at christmas when I was given nothing but makeup. Which I've only touched once for an awards ceremony.



Well, I'm not going to get taller and I can't stand heels in the least bit, so that's not going to change. I once dyed my hair green because it made me happy. When I was done, I was told by a family member to "come here so I can see how ugly you are". Love is really a strong word. I'm really only interested in companionship since I don't really have a wide range of emotions.



Then I'm up a metaphorical crap creek. I'm not that great on the outside, and the inside, well, that's enough to scare some people.

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I've been around a couple of blocks more than a couple of times. Do what makes you happy and sooner or later you'll find someone to compliment that. The trick is knowing that someone when opportunity knocks. Stay strong and confident. One of my exes, with whom I parted on good terms, was literally 4'10". If I turned around without looking I could knock her over without trying. There really is someone for everyone.

Raptor,
Throw the make up away. Dye your hair green and wear whatever the hell you want. I didn't mean fix it as in do things that other people think help. Do things to fix you for yourself. Your family saying those things is not a good place to be. As others have stated, there is compainionship for everyone. My husband and I own a little local hole in the wall bar. There is this girl that comes in, and she is about 4'8 4'10 Max. She is, by far, the life of the place when she comes in. She runs around and goofs off having a great time, she has purple hair, wears boyish clothes and turns every head in our place. She sings karaoke and people love to pick her up randomly. She is freaking awesome. She...sounds a lot like you. If you could get past what the people around you are saying...and I know that's hard.. but surround yourself with positive people. It takes time, but you can build that confidence. Being short is a pain, but it has it's perks. Like asking tall guys to help you reach the top shelf :) I wish you were close to us. I would love to introduce you to her and take you out with people who won't tell you how you should dress etc.

Oh, and I hate make up. I only wear it maybe 3-4 times a year at most. I prefer my boots (20+ year old dingos) to any heels I own. Do and wear what makes you feel good.

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

Raptor,
Throw the make up away. Dye your hair green and wear whatever the hell you want. I didn't mean fix it as in do things that other people think help. Do things to fix you for yourself. Your family saying those things is not a good place to be. As others have stated, there is compainionship for everyone. My husband and I own a little local hole in the wall bar. There is this girl that comes in, and she is about 4'8 4'10 Max. She is, by far, the life of the place when she comes in. She runs around and goofs off having a great time, she has purple hair, wears boyish clothes and turns every head in our place. She sings karaoke and people love to pick her up randomly. She is freaking awesome. She...sounds a lot like you. If you could get past what the people around you are saying...and I know that's hard.. but surround yourself with positive people. It takes time, but you can build that confidence. Being short is a pain, but it has it's perks. Like asking tall guys to help you reach the top shelf :) I wish you were close to us. I would love to introduce you to her and take you out with people who won't tell you how you should dress etc.

Oh, and I hate make up. I only wear it maybe 3-4 times a year at most. I prefer my boots (20+ year old dingos) to any heels I own. Do and wear what makes you feel good.

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x2 to this, for anyone, Raptor as well. Been there and done that as far as listening to the negativity people can try to force feed you, especially family. I wrote most of mine off and couldn't be happier. Find your fireteam; the people or person who will go to the gates of Hell with you and back, no questions asked, who will share in the filet mignon times and the pork and bean times both and support you the same throughout it. Basically find the people that love you for YOU, family or not and like RoseyReps said, that starts with loving and accepting yourself for who you are & who YOU want to be.

I have always preferred a women with little to no makeup. I like the natural look.

I also find one of the sexiest looks for a women is Jeans, t shirt, and a ball cap. I don't know why and you may think it weird but I love it.

In my earlier post I mentioned what I liked to look at but that is not all I have dated. That was just my caveman side describing the kind of women I would like to grunt at, club, and drag to the cave. I have dated tall girls, short girls, thin girls, heavier girls, curvy girls and non curvy girls. I would never not date a girl just because she didn't fit my idea of a perfect girl. While I do believe a visual attraction is needed it is not the number one concern in a mate, well not mine. I Am a guy and can find almost any women sexy and arousing but I can find the most beautiful women a complete turn off if she is a self centered, materialistic, stuck up witch.

I really lucked out and found a girl that will put up with me that happens to fit the mold of my perfect girl. I'm a lucky man. Now if I could just get her to like the snakes.

I am a photographer, I worked in fashion for a number or years photographing professional models in europe (london, munich) and have seen much of the underbelly of that industry. I have worked with women whom are toted as beautiful. Some are truly remarkable women smart interesting and that fact that comes in a contemporary beautiful body is actually intimidating. They are few and far between, shallow, demanding and mean is more common. Are they beautiful? well like the song says 'she ain't pretty she just looks that way.' Photographs lie they are not truth. Lighting, angle, make up effects even before post can grossly alter the 'look' of a person. Add common post effects, enlarging eyes, re-colouring skin tone, eyes and hair, line removal, and the odd digital cosmetic surgery leave a increase the gap between reality and photograph.

This generates an idealized (surreal) body, an impossible podium to reach. I dislike this a lot so much I moved away from europe and went home to NS canada and shoot mostly furniture (at a massive pay cut) but no matter what tricks I use to make a table look the best it can the decision is still when you walk into the store and see the demo unit and go 'gee it looks better in the photo' and walk out. Most high fashion magazines (vogue) have images of impossible women even the models can't live up to their own modified image. Sadly most images of women and men for that matter are selling an idea. If you wear Armani you will become beautiful desirable and rich.... These images prey on peoples insecurities and coheres them into thinking 500$ sweaters are worth it. Years ago the porn industry were the only image factories that could be counted on to show 'real' images of women free of the massive manipulation. Even that is gone now porn sets up a different kind of expectation between couples and pushes insecure people to do things they are not comfortable with, a similar problem.

There is no easy answer, change the way we market products? unlikely if not impossible, it is a tool that works very well. The answer is to teach young people (men too are effected by the same issues and the plight is not as well recognized but still there.) to be confident and comfortable with them selves. confident people are harder to take in they look at a 500$ sweater and think what are they thinking ? and walk away.

Personally I find a whole women attractive or not at all. The way a person moves, speaks, acts holds as much importance as the shell they live in. I am attracted to the whole package it is not important as Raptor says no curves curves don't make a women a woman. One of the sexiest women I know fits that description she is lithe and moves like she has no mass. It isn't the look but the way really at least in my eye.

As long as you're healthy and happy it shouldn't matter what size you are. Women can be beautiful at any size and this skinny vs. fat argument is stupid.

Also, why is this just for women? Can't we discuss skinny vs. fat men?

I have lots of opinions on this. The media is only partially to blame. Magazines will print what sells. If we stopped buying the ones with the anorexic looking models they would stop making them.

Men and women ARE different! I embrace those differences. We are supposed to be different.

As far as different standards in the work place, I don't think sex should ever be an issue. If a man or a woman can competently do a job then everything should be equal. When I was in college we discussed women firefighters. Do I think women should be fire fighters? Absolutely. But they need to be able to complete the same physical requirements as the men do. I don't want to burn in a fire because there were lesser standards for a woman to qualify to pull me out. If you can do the job great. If not, then find something else. That goes for anybody and any profession. As far as pay, it should reflect your work not your sex.

I personally love women. ALL women! I don't have a specific type. I do like fit women. I'm an active guy so I want an active girl. I love tattoos. I love a feisty girl. The first thing we "judge" someone on is looks. Is that right? Of course it is! We all have different views on beauty and attraction. I should be allowed to find a fit, tattooed, girl attractive. I also shouldn't be made to feel bad because I don't find an overweight woman attractive. You do you and I'll do me.

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Originally Posted by babyknees

Also, why is this just for women? Can't we discuss skinny vs. fat men?

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Certainly can, and i dont think the OP was purposely excluding them for any particular reason. Its just that in general society doesnt put nearly the same amount of pressure on men to "look beautiful" like it does with women. Im a bigger guy, not morbidly obese, but bigger, and ive never once seen a commercial or something and thought to myself "wow, i need to starve myself so i look pretty like that model on tv". I highly doubt im the only guy like that either, though i could be wrong. I know plenty of guys who are the opposite and are skinny as a rail, but theyre not eating a bunch to try and add weight so they look more muscular bc of pressure they feel from some commercial or something they saw. Idk, imo as far as media/society's portrayal of what an ideal body image is, the double standards between men and women really arent fair.

Let me also add that I have 6 older sisters. I grew up seeing this first hand. It blows my mind the differences between what girls find attractive in girls and what guys find attractive in girls. Most of the guys I know will agree with this. We want to see less make up and more meat. We want a girl who is comfortable with herself not trying to make herself into a photo she saw once in a magazine. Chances are that most men have not seen that photo and don't care to.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Certainly can, and i dont think the OP was purposely excluding them for any particular reason. Its just that in general society doesnt put nearly the same amount of pressure on men to "look beautiful" like it does with women. Im a bigger guy, not morbidly obese, but bigger, and ive never once seen a commercial or something and thought to myself "wow, i need to starve myself so i look pretty like that model on tv". I highly doubt im the only guy like that either, though i could be wrong. I know plenty of guys who are the opposite and are skinny as a rail, but theyre not eating a bunch to try and add weight so they look more muscular bc of pressure they feel from some commercial or something they saw. Idk, imo as far as media/society's portrayal of what an ideal body image is, the double standards between men and women really arent fair.

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I think I read the OP's intent incorrectly because I was grouchy already. Apparently my reading comprehension skills need work.

Come on now Mike! You are a handsome devil!

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Originally Posted by cecilbturtle

Come on now Mike! You are a handsome devil!

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As are you, good sir!

(i failed to mention our stunning good looks in that post bc i didnt want to derail the thread. Now just thinking about us will get all these lovelaaay ladies too worked up to respond!) :rofl:

You mean when you see those guys with their thighs attached to their shoulders it doesnt make you want to take steroids??? I think the biggest thing for guys is at some point in their lives a lot of guys say "I wanna get big!" I like to lift weights and I think Arnold is probably my idol when it comes to lifting because he revolutionized bodybuilding but I dont want to look like that at all. Not even close. I think muscles are stupid looking when they get to a certain point. Sure I have looked at muscle and fitness magazines and saw a dude that was built and I thought I wanted to get like that. But the more I read the more I just want to keep a healthy lifestyle and be fit not be ripped.

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

Raptor,
Throw the make up away. Dye your hair green and wear whatever the hell you want. I didn't mean fix it as in do things that other people think help. Do things to fix you for yourself. Your family saying those things is not a good place to be. As others have stated, there is compainionship for everyone. My husband and I own a little local hole in the wall bar. There is this girl that comes in, and she is about 4'8 4'10 Max. She is, by far, the life of the place when she comes in. She runs around and goofs off having a great time, she has purple hair, wears boyish clothes and turns every head in our place. She sings karaoke and people love to pick her up randomly. She is freaking awesome. She...sounds a lot like you. If you could get past what the people around you are saying...and I know that's hard.. but surround yourself with positive people. It takes time, but you can build that confidence. Being short is a pain, but it has it's perks. Like asking tall guys to help you reach the top shelf :) I wish you were close to us. I would love to introduce you to her and take you out with people who won't tell you how you should dress etc.

Oh, and I hate make up. I only wear it maybe 3-4 times a year at most. I prefer my boots (20+ year old dingos) to any heels I own. Do and wear what makes you feel good.

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I generally wear what I want to, anyway. I just get tired of the crap for it. Parents have been bugging me to get some new shirts since a lot of mine are getting old. So, prior to the new semester, I did. A bunch of tees with graphics on them. The majority were black, but I liked the look of them. Got them home and my step-dad immediately grumbled something about being goth. Your friend sounds nothing like me, actually. While I would dress the same, I wouldn't act like that. I can't stand people I don't know touching me, for one. I'm fairly..Standoffish, I suppose.

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Originally Posted by youbeyouibei

x2 to this, for anyone, Raptor as well. Been there and done that as far as listening to the negativity people can try to force feed you, especially family. I wrote most of mine off and couldn't be happier. Find your fireteam; the people or person who will go to the gates of Hell with you and back, no questions asked, who will share in the filet mignon times and the pork and bean times both and support you the same throughout it. Basically find the people that love you for YOU, family or not and like RoseyReps said, that starts with loving and accepting yourself for who you are & who YOU want to be.

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Unfortunately, all the people I know that do that are online and out of state. Truthfully, I doubt I'll ever accept/love myself. I never have. Even as a child I didn't like myself, didn't like my name, and I really still don't. It's an uncommon spelling of a common name and almost all my professors/instructors have to ask how to pronounce it. Suffice to say, I've never been a happy person.

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Originally Posted by sissysnakes

I have really enjoyed everyones comments so far!

Now for my two cents: For all you guys hatin on tall women you dont know what you are missing! lol lol

It is not just our girls who are effected by the media and the overall absurd concept of a "feminine" figure. I remember a great amount of teasing from boys in JH and High School and later even boyfriends (in HS) centered around girls who did not fit the mold. I think it is wonderful that you want to educate your girls on body image, but I think the boys often need some educating as well. They are effected just as much as our girls, and can have an effect on our girls with out knowing any better.

Not to mention men also get pressured to look a certain way, i had a friend in school who became anorexic and had to leave. He got teased so much for being fat that he stopped eating, and he wasn't fat to begin with. I know that it is unusual for men to develop these types of disorders, but the message is still there.

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Ah for my credit I did mention men as well in a later post. I would love for members to add opinions on men as well as women.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

I generally wear what I want to, anyway. I just get tired of the crap for it. Parents have been bugging me to get some new shirts since a lot of mine are getting old. So, prior to the new semester, I did. A bunch of tees with graphics on them. The majority were black, but I liked the look of them. Got them home and my step-dad immediately grumbled something about being goth. Your friend sounds nothing like me, actually. While I would dress the same, I wouldn't act like that. I can't stand people I don't know touching me, for one. I'm fairly..Standoffish, I suppose.



Unfortunately, all the people I know that do that are online and out of state. Truthfully, I doubt I'll ever accept/love myself. I never have. Even as a child I didn't like myself, didn't like my name, and I really still don't. It's an uncommon spelling of a common name and almost all my professors/instructors have to ask how to pronounce it. Suffice to say, I've never been a happy person.

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So if you know what the problems are, why don't you fix them? Change your name. Toughen your shell or explain, one final time, how it makes you feel when they treat you that way, whomever they may be. Start now, while you're young and eventually you'll find something better. Hopefully you can take that betterness and grow it even more.

It's better than being unhappy, I think.