Help/advice/thoughts? (LONG POST w/PICS)

I was talking to some of the neighborhood kids (between the ages of 9-12) and they mentioned they had snakes. I was surprised and asked them what they had; turns out they have a normal ball python and a baby marble blood python that they got a few days ago. They asked if I wanted to see them and I said sure, and let them ask me questions about my snakes and in general. Well their ball python looked fine, they said it eats great and everything (and it looks like it). But as soon as I saw their blood python I felt awful. I thought it was dead at first. It's maybe 10inches long, definitely a baby, but limp, tongue barely able to get out of its mouth (it was like it was too sticky) and about as responsive as a piece of spaghetti. I got his mouth open and didn't see any excess mucus, but it looked a little swollen, especially the left-hand side of bottom jaw in the front. They had tried to buy food for it today but the store was out of anything smaller than adult mice, so I offered for them to come up to my apartment and let me try and feed it a rat pink, since I've got tons. Put down some paper towels on the table and set it down, and the poor thing just laid on its side, something I've never seen a snake do. It looked so wrong. It felt kind of like fine sand paper too, mostly on the bottom, but I've never touched a blood python so I couldn't tell if that was normal. The scales looked especially shriveled on it's belly, so I thought maybe it was dehydrated (which wouldn't surprise me) so while I was thawing the pink I filled a shallow bowl with lukewarm water and placed it in. THAT made him thrash a little bit, but after a second he just laid there too. It looked like he might've drank too, but when I pulled him out to feed him he blew some water out of his mouth and nose. While doing this, I asked them how they kept him.

He's in a 75 GALLON tank, WITH the ball python. I'm not sure what they have in there, but they definitely said they've got a heat rock in there, which I stressed severely to get taken out of there. I told them the enclosure is wayyy too big for either snake, and that they should NOT be housed together, period. I tried without success to feed the little guy (they said they haven't tried to feed him) so I gave them the rat pink to take home (just in case they could have more success at home feeding him in the tank or something) and gave them the number for my snakes' vet, and told them they should REALLY get their parents to go get him checked out, because the way he was acting was just so WRONG. I've NEVER seen a snake lie completely on it's side, even his head was to the side. I took some pictures, just in case y'all are able to see something I can't... :(

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...911_202259.jpg
You can see how his jaw's weird-looking in this one. ^
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...911_202314.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...911_202357.jpg
That last one almost makes me cry. That's pretty much how he looked when just left alone, minus his head being all the way upside-down. I wanted to get a belly shot and we had to prop his head up because he just hung there like he was dead. I was continually checking to make sure he was breathing. Since I have no experience with them, can people chime in and tell me what I can do to at least give them proper advice beyond the basic "general snake knowledge"? I'm hoping that it's nothing too serious and that this baby will make it.

Wow, that poor baby. No blood experience here, but I would say vet ASAP, if that poor thing even makes it much longer. :( Wonder what is wrong with it?

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I pray he makes it. I told them they could come back to talk to me or watch me take care of my snakes, or their parents could come talk to me if they wanted. I even said I'd come help them set up proper enclosures for both their snakes if they wanted. I hope their parents care about the snakes and don't just brush this whole thing off. The whole time I was trying to help, the "this is such WRONG behavior for a snake" alarms were going off. Since they haven't had it more than a week, I would point most of the blame to the pet shop, but that doesn't change anything... He's such a gorgeous little man too.

I didn't want to scare them, but I was thinking the whole time that this poor little guy's time is just ticking away... :tears: The vet I gave them the number for is 24/7 so the sooner they take him in there, the better.

I hope they do something, that was pretty much my thoughts upon seeing those pictures, is that the clock is ticking...:(

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One of the kids said he loves snakes, and wants to be an exotics vet. (That's exactly what he said. He's 10! I was so proud of him) I'm hoping that his passion for the animals drives him to put pressure on his parents. But I know a lot of people that have that "my kid doesn't know better than me, the adult!" mentality... Ugh, makes me so mad! :rage: It's clear as day that this poor animal isn't acting right, even my roommate who doesn't know a thing about snakes thought that the little guy was dead when he came in. It's not a subtle thing.

The last pic affected me as well. Bloods are not ball pythons and have different requirements that aren't as forgiving as balls. Do you know what temps and humidity this blood is being kept at? I see you had stated this blood is being kept with the ball? Please tell them to separate them, bloods especially are very sensitive and being the requirements for balls and bloods are quite different they definitely need to be separated.

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Originally Posted by Xeperxi

The last pic affected me as well. Bloods are not ball pythons and have different requirements that aren't as forgiving as balls. Do you know what temps and humidity this blood is being kept at? I see you had stated this blood is being kept with the ball? Please tell them to separate them, bloods especially are very sensitive and being the requirements for balls and bloods are quite different they definitely need to be separated.

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No idea of the temps or humidity. I don't think they even measure it, judging from what they told me and the "what's that?" questions when they saw the gauges in my enclosures. All I know is that it's in the 75 gal. with the Ball and a heat rock (which I told them to take out, and they could buy a 10 gal. tank for the Blood for now since he's so small. I stressed that they should NOT be housed together) and possibly an UTH, since when I showed them the ones they had they seemed to indicate that they had them too. When I held them, both snakes were very warm, and when asked if they ever laid on the heat rock the kid told me they do, and I told them that those aren't made for these snakes and they could severely burn themselves on something like that. I told them that for Balls there should be an ambient 80 with a hotspot of 90 with 50% humidity; I didn't get to check on here for the caresheet for Bloods until today so if they come back I'll give it to them, but my boyfriend told them they should check online as well and do some research. I wish I had given them my number as well, so if they wanted to get in touch with me they could. The kids know where I live at least, and both my boyfriend and I told them they are more than welcome to come back if they want.

I talked them out of buying a RTB because they were just going to put it in with the Ball and the Blood too. I told them different species of snakes should NOT be housed together because they have different needs. I know it's a rare occurrence but to drive my point home I told them that there are cases where a RTB has eaten another snake. (I remember seeing someone post about how they had a RTB and a Ball together for a drive home from a show or something, and the RTB had eaten and then threw up the Ball.) They agreed to wait until they had another enclosure.

There's definitely fight left in the little Blood though, it's a slim hope but if they get a proper set up and get him to a vet stat I think he can be saved (with a lot of care and preserverence). On two occasions he struck at us, and the few times we could get the pinkie in his mouth he tried to constrict it. As a last ditch effort I tried to force feed him, but he wouldn't open his mouth and I was afraid of hurting him since I don't have much experience doing it and he seemed so fragile.

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Originally Posted by xFenrir

There's definitely fight left in the little Blood though, it's a slim hope but if they get a proper set up and get him to a vet stat I think he can be saved (with a lot of care and preserverence). On two occasions he struck at us, and the few times we could get the pinkie in his mouth he tried to constrict it. As a last ditch effort I tried to force feed him, but he wouldn't open his mouth and I was afraid of hurting him since I don't have much experience doing it and he seemed so fragile.

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First off, good on you for trying to help this little guy. Baby bloods can be tough. At this point I would not recommend force-feeding, as it typically causes more stress than it does good. Focus on getting this snake into the correct environment first, and letting the snake get settled and acclimated. A small plastic tote in the 6-15 quart range is a good size for a juvie like this. Use several thick layers of folded newspaper that the snake can hide between, and keep the entire enclosure in an area that averages 80-82 degrees with no hot spot. A simple water bowl completes the equation & will help maintain correct humidity in the enclosure without excessive fiddling or spraying.

Once he has a chance to hang out in a species-correct environment for a couple of weeks (may take a little longer), you should see his appetite start to kick in. Young bloods & STPs that are kept correctly are typically voracious feeders, and improper environmental conditions is one of the biggest causes of failure to feed.

Best of luck in getting him straightened out!

Where are these kids getting snake money? If they have the money to buy another snake they should use it to buy the correct tanks and equipment for the two they have. I would tell them to ask their parents if you can look at the setup and help them correct it. Maybe even volunteer to go with them to get the new supplies. Then after they are setup in their own tanks tell them to sell the 75 gallon on craigslist to make alittle money and free up the room.

I also second Kara's idea of totes but you need to know more information about their home and heat sources before suggesting it. Do some recon and get back with us.

I would search your local craigslist for two proper tanks. Small ones are usually listed at pretty good prices.

Commend you for trying to help. Can't add much more than what Kara and others have suggested, get temps around 82 and get into the proper enclosure and them give some time. Bloods aren't for a novice (not saying you are, talking about the original owners) but they can be hardy but need the correct environment. I wish luck and if you need anything lets know, my passion is bloods and wish you the best

Well haven't seen the kids since that day. Hopefully they'll come around today because they wanted to see me feed my boa, and I can ask them for an update on the little guy. I'm holding out hope that the parents took the advice I gave to their kids and don't just brush it off. There's a lot of people that get very defensive when you're "up in their business", even if it's just because you're worried about the welfare of another. :( I see a lot of stubborn people with animals, that know they're doing something wrong but get defensive because they don't want to admit it. It's really sad and frustrating.

I guess the parents have good intentions at heart with enabling the kids to buy snakes, but from what they explained to me they just did NO research themselves and just took the instructions of the pet store. Unfortunately, the poor snakes are the ones that pay the price.

I hear you on that one. My parents dog is nasty, and bit me 3-4 times, blood too, and my mom got very defensive about it, and even said it was my fault...

try your best to help that blood. pics are so shocking :-( let us know how it goes...

Since I don't know the kids that well, and don't know their parents/whoever they live with at all, I feel like just going up there and knocking on the door to say they're keeping their pets wrong will get me the immediate boot and a "mind your own business". It sucks knowing the poor guy is suffering and there's nothing more I can really do until they come find me again. :( Even though he's not my pet, I worry about that snake every day.

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Originally Posted by xFenrir

Since I don't know the kids that well, and don't know their parents/whoever they live with at all, I feel like just going up there and knocking on the door to say they're keeping their pets wrong will get me the immediate boot and a "mind your own business". It sucks knowing the poor guy is suffering and there's nothing more I can really do until they come find me again. :( Even though he's not my pet, I worry about that snake every day.

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I totally understand. I had a friend who was at their friends house and noticed a "unique" setup for his pet ball python. It was in a glass tank FILLED WITH WATER. All the snake had in terms of land was a turtle landing. I saw one picture and it was the saddest picture I've ever seen. I told her to give him my contact info and I would gladly help him make some changes, but she said he refused to believe anything was wrong with his setup. Such a shame. I'd like to help them all, but some of them just don't want to be helped.

Sad ending to this story... One of the kid's friends came over today to see me feed Satin, and he told me that when he went to see his friend who owns the Blood but he wasn't home, he noticed a rock over in the bushes. He looked under it and the little Blood was buried in a hole under it... :( I can't say it took me by complete surprise but I was holding out hope that something could be done... :tears:

R.I.P. little Blood Python... Hope you're in a better place. :please:

That is really unfortunate. Although I can't say I didn't see it coming... poor little guy! Thank you for trying to help him out!

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I'm so sorry you weren't able to save the little blood. It's wonderful that you are acting as a resource for the kids, though. You sound concerned about meeting their parents, but speaking as a mom, showing up on the doorstep is the very best possible thing you can do in this situation. I know that if my son came home and told me he had been inside the home of a person I didn't know, I'd be very, very concerned and upset.

If you just go over and introduce yourself and say that you own snakes and were answering some of their kids' questions, so you just wanted to let them know who you were and let them know where you lived, that *should* warm them up to you. I wouldn't even offer any unsolicited advice the first time over, just give your contact info, and let them know you'd be happy to help.

Good luck, and both the kids and their pets are lucky to have met you!

Well, that's just sad. Poor little guy. :(

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@Kaorte: I kind of felt that his time was up when I first saw him... I was just hoping that I was wrong. :(

@Libby: You are absolutely right, and I'm upset at myself that I didn't ask. I'm not sure where the kid lives though. When I saw their snakes for the first time we went to two apartments, but the kid that came over today said he had no snakes, and both places they went to had snakes (I think). Should I really go to both places and ask if he lives there then introduce myself? Should I just go over to the area they were at and see if I see them? Or should I just wait and see if I see them around the neighborhood then ask if I can meet their parents? I don't want to come off as if I'm stalking their children or something. If he comes around again I will be sure to at least send my number back with him, or ask if I can meet his guardians just to touch base. I feel really bad that I haven't, since both my boyfriend, roommate and I were talking about that we are responsible for the kids if they do decide to come visit. I have to say though, he was a very good kid. Knocked on the door, asked if he could see the snakes eat since it was feeding day (since we had told them they were getting fed today), played some Mario Kart with us and played with my roommate's dog while we waited for the rat to thaw and at 8 o'clock sharp said he had to get home and left. Very polite kid, which is more than what I can say about some of the teenagers around here. :/

@DrDooLittle: Yes, it's a sad ending for the little guy. I just hope he wasn't suffering for long. :(

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Originally Posted by xFenrir

Since I don't know the kids that well, and don't know their parents/whoever they live with at all, I feel like just going up there and knocking on the door to say they're keeping their pets wrong will get me the immediate boot and a "mind your own business". It sucks knowing the poor guy is suffering and there's nothing more I can really do until they come find me again. :( Even though he's not my pet, I worry about that snake every day.

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Take pride in knowing that you yourself gain knowledge before stepping out..Heres one for ya, in the neighborhood a individual gets a puppy..Puts it on a cable tie out, Sometimes shade, sometimes not..A plastic coffee can for water..NO dog house or shelter of ANY sort..:rolleye2:When dealing with humans sometimes your not dealing with much intelligence..:O Sorry to say..:tears:
:salute:

Sorry to hear about the snake.

This might be off topic but I would be careful about letting children into your home without their parents knowing. I have had neighborhood kids want to see my collection and really want to watch feedings. I tell them they most certainly can as long as they bring their parents. As long as their parents know where their children are and feel comfortable with their kids being in my home then I'm totally fine with it. Once their parents get to know me and they are okay with the kids coming over by themselves I readily welcome it.

As a parent, if my kid came home and told me he was in a house with a stranger for any reason I would be extremely upset regardless of the "stranger's" intentions. My kid shouldn't be talking to strangers. In this day and age you just never know who is out there.

I'm not saying you are one of the bad ones, just saying until a parent meets you how do they know?

@xFenrir, don't be too hard on yourself! Things like contacting parents didn't come automatically to me until after I had a child of my own, and you were extremely concerned and upset about what you (correctly) thought might be a dying animal. If you don't think the BP is in any imminent danger, then I wouldn't go out of my way to track down the family, but just be ready to take the opportunity to reach out if it occurs. Oh, and neighborhood kids almost always know who lives where, so if you have have a chance to talk to one without being stalky, be sure to take it!

Lots of (((hugs))) to you for trying to make the world a better place for kids and animals!