Battle of the Tstats! R vs J

RANCO vs JOHNSON

so this is my first year breeding and im building an incubator out of a 32 bottle stainless steel wine cooler ... there shal be pictures when the time comes ;) and obv eggs incubate in the winter and i live where we have really cold winters so the heat stays on in the apartment at like 65-70 so the apartment stays at a pretty constant temp so i feel safe using an on/off Tstat and saving myself a few bucks and i will use water bottles to reduce any temp flux. Once i make some money breeding i do plan on putting the money back into my balls which would include upgrading to a herpstat or whatever is best when that time comes. but for the first few seasons im gonna make do with what i can afford as i am a broke college student with a broke college student girlfriend both working at this hobby to make it happen and we realize it will take a few years before it starts to pay for itself.

SO i digress

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Refr...item3f10537c80

Versus

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ranco-ETC-11...item35bf04ebd4

theres less the a $3 difference and both suit my needs so its solely on which one you think is best! everyone's entitled to their opinion id just simply like to know yours :)

Of the 2 I prefer the ranco.

I would buy one from Reptile basics: http://www.reptilebasics.com/ranco/johnson-controls/

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Of the 2 I prefer the ranco.

I would buy one from Reptile basics: http://www.reptilebasics.com/ranco/johnson-controls/

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ok so thats ranco 1 johnson 0 .... and there the same price at reptilebasics because they charge an arm and a leg for shipping so that their prices can seem lower.

I much prefer Herpstats. If you're planning on making any $ back from breeding, a good thermostat should be one of your primary investments.

Personally, I would NEVER use an on/off type in an incubator again. I have before, lost every egg.

Neither, proportional all the way for incubators, we use herpstats on our incubators and our racks.
Well except one rack that has a johnson controls A419 which imo is a way better quality thermostat than the Ranco.

I'm gonna vote Herpstat too.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

just figured out the ranco is only 46 bucks if i wire it myself, so iv made my purchase ill use a ranco this season and then it will probably get demoted to my rack tstat and ill probably buy a VE-200 for next season

didnt refesh the page lol so i didnt realize so many people had commented =P thank you all, but i am indeed a broke college student, i would love to run my rack and incubator on $100+ proportional thermostats, but as of right now thats out of the question, good news is i dont plan on making money from breeding i plan on putting the money i make back into the hobby ie adding to my collection and upgrading equiptment so i should eventually have these fancy top notch thermostats =P

I understand being broke. But I have to rant a second, again, not trying to be rude or anything here.
People don'to hesitate throwing down 100-200 for a big normal girl, or morphs. They buy multiple snakes for upwards of that knowing they got a good deal. But when it comes time to buy a thermostat, for your rack, you are putting the lives of all of your snakes (say 4 snakes at 100 each, $400..and that is way low for most starting collections) that's where they want to trim costs? It makes no sense to me. Then, even more silly is trimming cost on an incubator tstat, which in theory is the lives of say 2-3 clutches. Possibly over a thousand dollars in babies (not even touching on the fact they are lives.. just business perspective here) so they save <$80 on going cheap tstat. And then gamble a temp spike or failure...it just doesn't make sense to me. Don't pair until you have saved up for a good tstat. How long do you think it would take you to save up $100? If you already have 40. That's only $60 of saving. Put in $5 a week and you'll have the money in 3 months. 3 months...vs getting it now and risking all those babies.
again, I'm sorry..I wasnt trying to aattack you personally. I've just seen so many people recently going with a cheap tstat to save money ..I just can't imagine risking the lives of my babies over a $60 difference.

If you can't afford a good thermostat, then how are you going to afford to take care of the babies? What about proper housing for the babies? What about a thermostat for their rack or cages? I'd hold off on breeding until you could afford to get the right equipment and afford to care for the offspring. It is the responsible thing to do. Those two thermostats may do the job, but the thermostat on the incubator is the most critical piece of equipment in the breeding process. I have two of them, one to back up the primary. It isn't the area to scrimp when breeding. Lots of things go wrong if you get temp spikes or failures.

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

I understand being broke. But I have to rant a second, again, not trying to be rude or anything here.
People don'to hesitate throwing down 100-200 for a big normal girl, or morphs. They buy multiple snakes for upwards of that knowing they got a good deal. But when it comes time to buy a thermostat, for your rack, you are putting the lives of all of your snakes (say 4 snakes at 100 each, $400..and that is way low for most starting collections) that's where they want to trim costs? It makes no sense to me. Then, even more silly is trimming cost on an incubator tstat, which in theory is the lives of say 2-3 clutches. Possibly over a thousand dollars in babies (not even touching on the fact they are lives.. just business perspective here) so they save <$80 on going cheap tstat. And then gamble a temp spike or failure...it just doesn't make sense to me. Don't pair until you have saved up for a good tstat. How long do you think it would take you to save up $100? If you already have 40. That's only $60 of saving. Put in $5 a week and you'll have the money in 3 months. 3 months...vs getting it now and risking all those babies.
again, I'm sorry..I wasnt trying to aattack you personally. I've just seen so many people recently going with a cheap tstat to save money ..I just can't imagine risking the lives of my babies over a $60 difference.

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your missinformed but you make a good point none the less. in my case i have only paid $245 for my 4 snakes and about 180 building the rack for them... and this season i only have one female thats ready and my only male is a pastel so at most im going to have 1 clutch and its going to be female to pastel with the best odds probably a $400 clutch at most with which money i plan to buy a VE-200 which i will use to run my rack and then when i need my incubator the VE-200 will run the incubator and let the ranco run the rack for the 60 some odd days with a zoomed tstat as a failsafe the zoomed i have now so ill already have that and it will make a perfect failsafe for the ranco. honestly i am insulted to think that you think i would honestly put my snakes at risk due to shear ignorance, i have done my fair share of research and after all this is a HOBBY rent and bills comes first or me and the snakes will be on the streets with nowhere to plug in my fancy VE-200 or my herpstat 8. im trying to safely make ends meet here and i feel like im succeeding i was only asking for advice on which seemingly equal one was better.

and there is my rant :) see i can do it too

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Originally Posted by Don

If you can't afford a good thermostat, then how are you going to afford to take care of the babies? What about proper housing for the babies? What about a thermostat for their rack or cages? I'd hold off on breeding until you could afford to get the right equipment and afford to care for the offspring. It is the responsible thing to do. Those two thermostats may do the job, but the thermostat on the incubator is the most critical piece of equipment in the breeding process. I have two of them, one to back up the primary. It isn't the area to scrimp when breeding. Lots of things go wrong if you get temp spikes or failures.

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i have the rack and i have the bins and i have a cheap supplier for hoppers, i got this

But you ARE putting your snakes at risk. The price doesn't matter of how much you paid for your snakes, or if you'll be breeding one pair or twelve. You are putting your first clutch at risk, because you don't want to wait and buy a proper tstat for your incubator. You ARE putting those babies at risk. I never said it was out of ignorance, I actually believe it's out of impatience. It is a hobby, yes, and rent and bills come first. But what is stopping you from saving up a few more months and holding off on pairing? You can be insulted all you like, I stated I wasn't trying to be rude to you, but you seem to be failing at seeing the big picture. If you care about these animals, why rush. I just don't see the reasoning.

You will do as you see fit, that is your right. And I truly hope you have great success and all your babies come out wonderful and healthy, and your collection is able to thrive.

My brand new Ranco died just three days after getting it (*not from RBI*). Fortunately, it was being used the back up T-Stat for Herpstat 1 so there was no problem other than being out the cost. Now, I only will use VE-100's as back up T-Stats. Quality, not price, is what counts. You've been given a lot of good advice from the above posters.

My suggestion would be to scroll through the fire threads and see what can happen when things go wrong with a T-Stat.

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Originally Posted by jfaria1891

your missinformed but you make a good point none the less. in my case i have only paid $245 for my 4 snakes and about 180 building the rack for them... and this season i only have one female thats ready and my only male is a pastel so at most im going to have 1 clutch and its going to be female to pastel with the best odds probably a $400 clutch at most with which money i plan to buy a VE-200 which i will use to run my rack and then when i need my incubator the VE-200 will run the incubator and let the ranco run the rack for the 60 some odd days with a zoomed tstat as a failsafe the zoomed i have now so ill already have that and it will make a perfect failsafe for the ranco. honestly i am insulted to think that you think i would honestly put my snakes at risk due to shear ignorance, i have done my fair share of research and after all this is a HOBBY rent and bills comes first or me and the snakes will be on the streets with nowhere to plug in my fancy VE-200 or my herpstat 8. im trying to safely make ends meet here and i feel like im succeeding i was only asking for advice on which seemingly equal one was better.

and there is my rant :) see i can do it too

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i have the rack and i have the bins and i have a cheap supplier for hoppers, i got this

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Please do not take this the wrong way but...

Ok so if it's a $400 clutch, how much of that $400 is going to be spent raising the babies?

These are all approximations but here's a bit of a breakdown:

Wood/Melamine/PVC, etc: $40
Flexwatt or another heating device: $25
Tubs for each baby in an average sized clutch of 5-7 eggs: $25-$30
Food to feed the babies before you send them off to their new homes:
-$1 per fuzzy rat = $5-$7 PER FEEDING of each snake
-5 successful feedings before they go to their new homes (at $5-$7 per feeding x 5 feedings) = $25-$35. And that's IF they successfully eat every food item offered to them. Keep in mind BPs can be notoriously hard to get started, so think about double or even tripling these costs if you are feeding f/t and have to throw some of the rats away. So let's assume $100 for the cost of getting them started

GRAND TOTAL of raising this clutch: $190-$205. And that is on the very low end of things. The feeding costs may actually be much higher, as this approximation is BEST CASE scenario of all of them deciding to feed quickly and steadily, and you selling them and getting them out of your rack AS SOON AS they are ready to go. In my experience, this DOES NOT happen. You end up hanging on to babies longer than you think you will. Also, I didn't even factor in advertising costs to get people to buy the babies, hydro & electricity charges, the fact that you may have to buy ANOTHER thermostat for your baby rack, since BP clutches take anywhere from a couple of days to a week to fully hatch out. In which time, you may want to move the babies into their own tubs, which will need heat. You're going to have to deal with the fact that ball pythons aren't usually sold for what they are advertised as, and you may end up only making 1/2 - 2/3rds of what you're expecting. Their prices drop each year, etc.

NOT TO MENTION, what if you lose this clutch due to temp fluctuations? Then you're out the $ that you were going to use to purchase a better thermostat, and you're out 1 year of breeding. You would have to buy a proportional thermostat out of pocket, or risk losing all the eggs again in the next year.

I'm not saying Johnson or Ranco thermostats are BAD, I'm just saying in my own personal opinion, I would never use one for incubation. And I'm not going on a rant here, I just want you to see it from the perspective of people who actually try & make money in this biz. It's not easy. There are an astronomical amount of costs that people forget to factor in, and I just wanted to make you aware of them.

I too would not suggest either for an incubator. Both have not very accurate probes incubators need accurate temps. Both J and R have a 2º+/- error range. This is too inaccurate for a incubator. That means you would need to add an accurate thermometer better than off the shelf ones. That means adding more cash, I would think at least one accurate to 1ºF or better and certified accurate (traceable) Ones that fit this bill run in the hundreds of dollars. In fact you could save some cash by using something like say a herpstat as they are less than a good thermometer and have this kind of accuracy. This is a reason to buy a proportional as most (in N america anyway) have less than one degree error. IMO a J or R can be used but only in conjunction with an accurate thermometer.

It is like buying a sports car because you got a good deal on the tires.

Ok, to squamishserpants i have all the stuff i need to house the babies already but the price breakdown was still helpful, no sarcasm her thank you. And your all right i already ordered the ranco BUT i have months before im going to need the incubator which your right does give me time to save up so i will NOT run my incubator on the ranco i should have more then enough time to get a ve - 200 which will be well worth it even more so because i deff cant afford 2 of them so the ve200 can run my rack when im not using my incubator and for the 60ish days i do use my incubator ill use the ranco i already ordered on the rack with the zoomed failsafe, does that sound better?

I want to thank everyone for beating this into by the way. I can be stubborn at times.

Just out of curiosity why chose a VE over a herpstat? I have constantly wondered this, if someone else had released the VE200 and not RB it would likely be a flop. Of all the major bands (herpstat, ecozone, herp keeper, helix ,VE) it has the fewest features of all but the helix, which as near as I can tell is a copy of. The base model has no alarms, no night drop, no cooling, is pulse proportional. I actually don't get it, the price of the herpstat is the same and for 25$ more you can get a HS1 which has two more safety features (relay and low temp shut down). What is so attractive about the VE? Honest question I simply do not get it.

I've thrown away approx. six rancos in the last few years. In my experience they last two or three years and then die. I've switched to Herpstats and really like them. Also, I've used Helix thermostats for my incubators and never had an issue.

If I had to choose between a Ranco and a Johnston, I'd probably go with a Herpstat.

If your broke, why are u breeding?? If you cant buy the proper supplies, you shouldn't breed.

If your looking to save money go to hone depot and buy a shop light and a dimmer.. That should work!!!

I see my reply was answered already..

I just dont understand how you can be so chill about not providing the best care.

Im a cold hearted sob too, i separate myself emotionally from this hobby alot. Ive lost babies before, and it sucks dont get me wrong, but i dont cry about it. Because i know it wasnt an error in what I did. Nature acts weird sometimes..

You need to eliminate variables, not introduce them, u have beeding animals u have run off a zoomed im assuming reostat?

This is not s cheap hobby!!! Its not knitting.. Cant just pick up some cheap sticks.. U need titanium rods, or else the figurative scarf your trying to make is gonna unravel, and your gonna be left with a big headache.

My rant and .02

Thanks SImplex but the OP has already stated they are going to buy a better thermostat.

BTW...knitting is an expensive hobby too. Have you SEEN the price of some of those skeins of wool???

:P And yes I am being serious about the knitting thing

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Originally Posted by SquamishSerpents

Thanks SImplex but the OP has already stated they are going to buy a better thermostat.

BTW...knitting is an expensive hobby too. Have you SEEN the price of some of those skeins of wool???

:P And yes I am being serious about the knitting thing

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I understand that. But it bothers me that people jump the gun like this. A zoomed tstat. Seriously? For a rack of breeding animals.

Money doesnt grow on trees I know that. And to be fair, this doesnt annoy me even as much as those individuals whom have unlimited funds who decide on a whim one day to get into the hobby, with a few quad morphs and modest ars caging room controlled by 4 herp 4s but yet cant get there humidity right, or figure out why their 20bps worth 30k wont eat. (long story) but i digress...

If you cant do it right, it shouldn't be done... Right doesn't have to be fancy or pretty. In no means. But it has to be right by the animals.

To the op. Decide what you want to do. And do it. No one is going to stop you. But this hobby at times feels a lil like playing god. We are indirectly creating life. Thats a big thing!

Bills and housing comes first.. Dont get me wrong...
And maybe ive got my priorities wrong but ive put off paying bills for a week or so, so i could afford to feed my bps, who are housed in a room i rented before for 400 bucks a month.. So they in no way pay for themselves..

Imho you sound like your doing this just for the money.. Well you will soon find out. A pastel to normal clutch.. Is gonna cost you money... Alot of money..

The above mentioned price breakdown is very conservative as far as im concerned, your going to spend alot of money before u see a dime returned.. ALOT.

You may have got into this on the cheap, but that lucky horse shoe wont last forever. Can you afford your first vet visit? What about as mentioned when ur temps spike and u lose ur clutch?
Can u afford the time it takes to start 8 new babies on feed?? Btw assist fed one hatchling this year for 2 months.. Finally took his first live asf this week.

There is a lot of variables..and cost you NEVER think of. Trust me cause I was in your shoes.

On the cheap is not always the best way to go.

I'm sorry, but I would never use an analog thermostat to control a ball python egg incubator. Their eggs are TOO SENSITIVE. Other species can withstand more fluctuation, but not ball pythons. You go this route, and the worst that can happen isn't that you lose them....it's that they hatch, and they're all one-eyed, kinked, and fused.

You can get away with using analog thermostats to control heat in a rack, especially if you use a particulate bedding like cypress mulch, but you really need a good proportional thermostat for your incubator.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Just out of curiosity why chose a VE over a herpstat? I have constantly wondered this, if someone else had released the VE200 and not RB it would likely be a flop. Of all the major bands (herpstat, ecozone, herp keeper, helix ,VE) it has the fewest features of all but the helix, which as near as I can tell is a copy of. The base model has no alarms, no night drop, no cooling, is pulse proportional. I actually don't get it, the price of the herpstat is the same and for 25$ more you can get a HS1 which has two more safety features (relay and low temp shut down). What is so attractive about the VE? Honest question I simply do not get it.

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So your saying i should get a herpstat rather then a ve - 200 ? i was just going off of another thread i read that was saying how good the ve was ok so now ill look into herpstat and the herpstat 1 can be the second one i buy because i do eventualy want 2 of these one fore the rack and one for the incubator but for now i can only afford one so ill switch it between the two like i said earlier and by next season i should have no problem getting another one. So would anyone suggest one they think is better then herpstat thats around 100 130 area price wise?

Like squamish said simplex im going to buy a proportional thermostat for my incubator so if you would like to continue ranting about how people cheap out start your own thread because that no longer applies here. Thank you

Herpstat. Nuff' said..........

jfaria1891 actually I was just curious why. I actually don't understand what is the hype about the VE series. It reads like the Helix unit almost exactly which is unchanged since the early 80s the ve updated the box and menu and re-released it. I was just wondering why it is so popular. To my mind it is a very sad that a community leader would be involved in a product that takes a 30 year backward step. Every unit after the helix, advanced the features of a reptile t-stat (truly designed for the task at hand) the helix is a great unit but is not much more than an industrial proportional controller (Honeywell makes a number). The ones designed after the helix, customized a basic unit specifically for keeping herps, adding things like, lighting cycles, temp changes both seasonal and daily alerts, heating cooling and mist controls, added safety systems, and data logging ect. Each of the N American upped the anti with each new release. The herpstat offers the most sophisticated safety system on the market and a good selection of features common the the competitors then along comes the VE and it has no features, nothing added from units in the past 30 years, and it is really popular. It just baffles me, I have had my hands on two, one was not working properly. (failed to hold settings after losing power) It feels good well thought out menu but still it seems like a Helix. There is nothing wrong with Helix they have a track record that is amazing 30 years basically unchanged.

I feel like I am missing something!

I want an alarm, I want a soft start heat. I want to protect my animals against a probe being pulled loose. I really want a manual that is complete!!! (full specs would be nice... How accurate is the probe... It is +/- 0.9ºF but it took me 3 emails and posting that question on an open forum to get that answer.) I have a number of herpstats I felt when I bought them they offered the best range of features at the best price (still do, the ecozone and herpkeeper have a web interface and text/email alerts but are quite costly.) The menu is not something that matters much I change the settings on my thermostats once in 2 years, this for me is not a selling point, and that is stacks well all but one herpstat does (the intro is flush mount) the ecozone and the herpkeeper are too. The only non stackable unit on the market today is the helix and one herpstat. Hardly a selling point.


The only selling point is Rich at RB. It is not like Dion (herpstat) has poor service, actually the best service I have ever had came from him, that includes when I was the consultant for a 6 million dollar deal.