Angolan or Ball Python

I was looking for a female Bumble Bee ball python to eventual breed with my Male Cinny, but then today I saw a Angolan Python so......the question is should I get the female bee which I could breed in time or the female Angolan which is very cool but I couldn't breed without getting more snakes. From what I read Angolans are still rare and go for good money. Also I am not sure what an Angolan should go for these days?

I can't give you a specific price point, but I know they are dang expensive. Well, atleast for me anyway, lol.

If you are more concerned with breeding for money, or the value of your potential new pet- I strongly urge you to reconsider keeping these animals at all.

At a pet level or at a breeding level I would go with the Angolan.... Angolans are just amazing animals and relatively rare (something not everyone has for sure even if not considered rare anymore) and well bee's are a dime a dozen these days......

M&M I am not worried about the value of a pet or breeding. I am doing this as a hobby and was meerly asking for a going price on a snake so I know what is far price. This is a hobby for me and asked for help with a decision so calm down.

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Originally Posted by MMReptiles

If you are more concerned with breeding for money, or the value of your potential new pet- I strongly urge you to reconsider keeping these animals at all.

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I thought breeders try and make money off their sales? And that they buy new morphs just so they can combine them with other morphs that they will then sell? Maybe I'm putting too much thought into this...

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Originally Posted by MMReptiles

If you are more concerned with breeding for money, or the value of your potential new pet- I strongly urge you to reconsider keeping these animals at all.

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Every snake that I purchase, is an investment. Apparently I'm going about my business the wrong way :rolleyes:

Maybe you should fill us in on how it "should" be done.

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Originally Posted by MMReptiles

If you are more concerned with breeding for money, or the value of your potential new pet- I strongly urge you to reconsider keeping these animals at all.

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I only buy and own my snakes to make money so i see all purchases as an investment. :gj:

OP: bumblebees are pretty common nowadays. I'd go with an angolan!

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

I only buy and own my snakes to make money so i see all purchases as an investment. :gj:

OP: bumblebees are pretty common nowadays. I'd go with an angolan!

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:( ^^
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;)
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Originally Posted by Andrew21

I thought breeders try and make money off their sales? And that they buy new morphs just so they can combine them with other morphs that they will then sell? Maybe I'm putting too much thought into this...

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Doesn't mean it's right, the fact so much of this hobby is driven based off money and profiting from animals is disgusting.

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Originally Posted by heathers*bps

Every snake that I purchase, is an investment. Apparently I'm going about my business the wrong way :rolleyes:

Maybe you should fill us in on how it "should" be done.

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You are. Perhaps you should start keeping animals you enjoy, the morphs you enjoy, because you enjoy them, not because they will net you the most return. Passion should come first, not your wallet. The sooner this hobby realizes this- the better.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

I only buy and own my snakes to make money so i see all purchases as an investment. :gj:

OP: bumblebees are pretty common nowadays. I'd go with an angolan!

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Again, this is why it's disgusting and sad that this is what the hobby has become. I go to reptile expos to talk and chat with fellow reptile enthusiasts and breeders, not investors and bankers. I'd buy from someone who put passion and care and effort into their animals over someone trying to squeeze in a couple extra dollars. Get a real job ;)

I adore my Angolan male and will be getting a female for him within the next couple months. It's up to you though: I love both him and my balls and hope to one day make bees/lesser bees as well.

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i3...t1020122-1.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i3...ly420121-1.jpg

I DO do this with passion and care. Just because I can also make some money by doing what I love, means that I'm wrong?

Every morph that I own is what "I" want. Every morph that I produced as been what "I" want.

Why don't you just worry about you, mmkay?

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Originally Posted by MMReptiles

Again, this is why it's disgusting and sad that this is what the hobby has become. I go to reptile expos to talk and chat with fellow reptile enthusiasts and breeders, not investors and bankers. I'd buy from someone who put passion and care and effort into their animals over someone trying to squeeze in a couple extra dollars. Get a real job ;)

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I have a real job too. :gj:

I take excellent care of my snakes. They all eat for me and shed perfectly. I do put alot of effort and care into my animals, i assure you. How am i squeezing in a couple of extra dollars? Just bc im going to make money breeding them? As long as i provide perfect care for them, who are you to say i shouldnt be in this hobby?

Im not a banker by any means, and am not even gunna attempt to invest in the stock market. I know id lose money lol. I'd rather invest in quality snakes and raise them up to make money. Whats so wrong about that?

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Originally Posted by MMReptiles

Doesn't mean it's right, the fact so much of this hobby is driven based off money and profiting from animals is disgusting.


You are. Perhaps you should start keeping animals you enjoy, the morphs you enjoy, because you enjoy them, not because they will net you the most return. Passion should come first, not your wallet. The sooner this hobby realizes this- the better.


Again, this is why it's disgusting and sad that this is what the hobby has become. I go to reptile expos to talk and chat with fellow reptile enthusiasts and breeders, not investors and bankers. I'd buy from someone who put passion and care and effort into their animals over someone trying to squeeze in a couple extra dollars. Get a real job ;)

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I understand your point. Kinda sorta. What is the effect of having breeders that expect money for the reptiles they sell? I mean, we spend all this time arguing over how snakes don't love humans or get attached. How they just care about the husbandry that is required for them to thrive. Well, if this is all in the best interest of the reptiles, then why should we care if a breeder is in it just for the money? As long as they give the snakes the proper care. I don't understand why they would breed something they don't love, but still.

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Originally Posted by Andrew21

I understand your point. Kinda sorta. What is the effect of having breeders that expect money for the reptiles they sell? I mean, we spend all this time arguing over how snakes don't love humans or get attached. How they just care about the husbandry that is required for them to thrive. Well, if this is all in the best interest of the reptiles, then why should we care if a breeder is in it just for the money? As long as they give the snakes the proper care. I don't understand why they would breed something they don't love, but still.

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Omg andrew its bc if you dont give your snakes hugs and kisses and tuck them in every night then youre a heartless person who doesnt belong in this hobby! lmao :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Omg andrew its bc if you dont give your snakes hugs and kisses and tuck them in every night then youre a heartless person who doesnt belong in this hobby! lmao :rolleyes:

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Then I guess I'm good to go! :snake:xoxoxox:snake:

My GF told me of [someone] replying to this thread and I guessed right, its MMReptiles. This special case has been on my ignore list since their stupidity in the "Thinking of stepping away from balls" by ChrisS... would strongly encourage others to do the same and be better off cause of it.

I guess I am going to chime in again as I am a banker investor and independently wealthy :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Now that I have gotten that outta the way... Let me put my .02 in on this argument going on about how disgusting I am because I make money on my snakes.
First I would like to say that I have had a very bad breeding season... It is September and the only thing I have produced was a litter of blood boas, I have nearly a dozen female balls that are either going way late or more realistically not going to produce this year (there is always hope they will ;) ). You dont see any of them for sale anywhere..... I in fact despite my bad breeding year have acquired nearly 6k worth of new boas, yes they are to breed but more so because I enjoy them....

That being said if I or anyone else (no I am not really taking any of this personally as it was only unknowingly pointed at people like me :D ) that has had a bad year of breeding they would have gotten out and been done... If it was all about the money I would be done as I didnt produce anything this year and have actually lost a small fortune.....

Again... Last year my extremely picky quarantine situation proved to be my best asset.... I acquired approximately 10 ball pythons last season all worth 1k-1500 bucks a piece and due to poor scheduling on my part all ended up in quarantine together... one of those said animals had something wrong with it... add another 3k worth of vet appointments and meds to try to help the animals in my quarantine room I still lost every animal in there...... Upon this happening all racks, tubs thermostats and anything else that possibly got Cootiefied were burnt..... entire room was bleached from floor to ceiling (yeah a bit excessive it almost caused a divorce in itself) I then intern locked my collection down for a matter of 6-8 months to ensure nothing else was infected..... All in all well you do the math I lost enough to pay off both of the vehicles I own (or the bank owns and I make payments on :D )

I dont carry on in hopes of getting rich (no doubt when I do make a bit of money it is well appreciated but hour for hour probably less than minimum wage of what I put in) I dont do this for the money... it is a passion, yes the set backs last year killed me, and my attention being turned to taking care of the problem in the qt room is the primary cause I may not produce any ball pythons this season, next year I hope to make a good amount of money on my projects.... But at that same time it wouldnt matter if I did........

I hope this sheds some light on how disgusting I am.... And for all of those people that will be upset that my collection got beat up.... I learned... my main collection is safe, and belive me the persons responsible for the sickly animal know who they are..... At the same time I went to great lengths to ensure my main collections stayed safe and believe me when I tell you.... I would never send out an animal like the one I received, my animals are safe, healthy (and a big majority of the females hopefully gravid)

I know what you think you see from standing on the outside of this hobby looking in.... But consider this.... I was told by a very smart man once.... Do something you love and you will never work a day in your life... do I believe that I will one day do this for a living NO, but does the time I spend with my collection make my every day crappy job worth going to every day.... You bet

Justin, don't get him started on vet fees or anything like that. You will be damned an idiot then :rolleyes:

Back to the original topic, I absolutely LOVE Angolans!! I saw a few at the San Jose Expo this year, and IIRC they were going for around $700? I guess it depends on your specific goals with these snakes, but I'd kill to get an Angolan in my collection. :tears:

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Btw (and I hope it's okay to post them here), these are the Angolans I saw in San Jose - both males, and it took a LOT of willpower not to ask "will you take payments?" ;)

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...4/IMG_2393.jpg

Angolan for sure! They're gorgeous animals.

MMReptiles:
I love and enjoy my animals. I don't expect to make any profit breeding snakes, but it would be nice to make some money to put back into the snakes. If they could pay for their own bedding, heating, and food, I would highly appreciate it. My small colony of 3:13 rats are finally paying for themselves just by selling 3 dumbo pups a month. It definitely helps save up for other things.

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Originally Posted by devildog_dk

My GF told me of [someone] replying to this thread and I guessed right, its MMReptiles. This special case has been on my ignore list since their stupidity in the "Thinking of stepping away from balls" by ChrisS... would strongly encourage others to do the same and be better off cause of it.

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I'm probably going to do the same based on the "Vet Visit" thread by BWyant....

On topic: I've only ever handled my girlfriend's Angolan but their scales are really what sold me, its like letting a tiny little cobblestone road run between your fingers, nothing like any other snake I've felt so far (even the velvet of a retic). A lesserbee is really the only thing with the spider gene that interests me at all but i would still prefer an Angolan over it.

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Originally Posted by devildog_dk

On topic: I've only ever handled my girlfriend's Angolan but their scales are really what sold me, its like letting a tiny little cobblestone road run between your fingers, nothing like any other snake I've felt so far (even the velvet of a retic). A lesserbee is really the only thing with the spider gene that interests me at all but i would still prefer an Angolan over it.

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Dude you suck. Now i have like a compulsive urge to hold one and feel that cobblestone feeling lmao!

Thanks everyone for the replies. I think I am going with the Angolan. She just caught my eye and is definitely a crazy looking snake, but I have another option M&M if you want to share you great passion for snakes I would be happy to take a free free Bee or Lesser from your collection if you have them. Let me know I would even pay for shipping just to show you how much I care for snakes! I will be sure to post pics.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Dude you suck. Now i have like a compulsive urge to hold one and feel that cobblestone feeling lmao!

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That's exactly how I was feeling when I read that. Lol. :)

To the OP: If you can afford it, go with the Angolan. They are beautiful animals and I personally would LOVE to have one. They are less common in the pet trade for the time being and as such would definitely be a point of pride in any collection. Whether you eventually decide to breed them as well or not, an Angolan would be a very beautiful addition. ;)

Edit:I was a little late with that...:rolleyes: Yay Angolan! Can't wait to see the pics. :D

I took a few pics of my new girl before putting her away. Its hard to let them settle in and not mess with them. I will post some better pics when she is settled.

[IMG]http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...8/img_1120.jpg[/IMG]

She is gorgeous!!! Congrats :)

Are they similar to a bp in size and temperment?
They look similar.

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Originally Posted by PorcelainxDoll

Are they similar to a bp in size and temperment?
They look similar.

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In my experience they get a bit larger than ball pythons 5.5-6ft is pretty common, and they can be a bit heavier bodied.... I would compare their personalities to a red tail boa..... curious, mellow mannered, not bitey, but feed very well

I really want to ad a pair of Angolans in the future

Nice girl! Who'd you get her from? I'm waiting on a female from Chad Duggin to match my little guy I got from him.

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Originally Posted by devildog_dk

On topic: I've only ever handled my girlfriend's Angolan but their scales are really what sold me, its like letting a tiny little cobblestone road run between your fingers, nothing like any other snake I've felt so far (even the velvet of a retic).

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so...fairly similar to a carpet python? (I love retic scales...so smooth!!!!)

Day Breaker I got her from a local guy here in PA that has been working with these guy for awhile. Do you know what line yours is from? My girl is from the Huston Zoo Line.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/10/uze5e4un.jpg

Ok, I just read through this thread. I'm sorry to go off topic, but I can't stand bullies, hypocrites, or trolls.

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Originally Posted by MMReptiles

Doesn't mean it's right, the fact so much of this hobby is driven based off money and profiting from animals is disgusting.


You are. Perhaps you should start keeping animals you enjoy, the morphs you enjoy, because you enjoy them, not because they will net you the most return. Passion should come first, not your wallet. The sooner this hobby realizes this- the better.


Again, this is why it's disgusting and sad that this is what the hobby has become. I go to reptile expos to talk and chat with fellow reptile enthusiasts and breeders, not investors and bankers. I'd buy from someone who put passion and care and effort into their animals over someone trying to squeeze in a couple extra dollars. Get a real job ;)

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Here's a thread started by MM asking if he can make money off of snakes http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...orth-it-at-all

Here's one where he blantantly states that ball pythons are an investment for him http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...arting-breeder

I don't like starting trouble, I just can't stand this hate culture that the internet breeds. Plus this is supposed to be the friendliest place for ball python lovers.

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P.S. to the OP That is a beautiful angolan. I think you made a wise choice!

that snake is so cool. I want one now and I have to agree with the I hate who ever made the cobble stone comment, now all I want to do is hold one of those lol.