Don's prey items

Hey Rusty. I plan on breeding my Ratsnakes, Boa Constrictor, Anoles (for feeders for my ratsnakes), and Leopard Geckos (I am getting a new baby tomorrow.) Maybe my Ball Python as well since he is 4yrs old:)

I am not positive on how old he is but I would have to guess like 6 months maybe? I got him as a WC from a friend....so I have no idea. But thanks I love him:)

Why are you going to feed your ratsnakes anoles?? Its quite obvious it will eat rodents, even if they are of inappropriate size.

I was also pondering that David

Because if I have them why not use them? I am not going to make any profit off of my Anoles. But I would only feed anoles to the snakes that I will keep. I will feed the ones available with pinkies:) Dont worry;)

I still see no reason to feed your snake anoles......its a ratsnake not a Vine Snake. Jeez.

Ok thanks:)

What difference does it make if they're not for sale to others who would need to keep up the prey item? If he has them and they are a natural prey item, it makes sense to me to feed them. it's not like anoles deserve to live more than rats, mice, gerbils, or rabbits do.

It makes a big difference. Anoles are nowhere near as nutritional as rodents. Snakes such as Black Rats & Corns who are native to both places that do and don't have endemic populations of reptilian prey such as anoles are very different in phenotypes. For instance....Florida Corns feed primarily on anoles, tree frogs and other small prey items. Kentucky locales feed primarily on a rodent diet. KY corns attain larger adult size in the wild and are of a much thicker build. This of course is because of diet.

In captivity, Black Rats adjust perfectly to a diet of strictly rodents. There is no good reason to feed anything else if the snake willingly takes rodents. It would be like living off of Doritos and White Castle burgers when you could be living off of Steak, Veggies, and other parts of a balanced diet. You see my point?

would you feed your dog cats?


though small lizards may be a natural prey item for ratsnakes, i think feeding one that will willingly take rodents, which are higher in nutrition and easier to obtain (most ratsnakes will eat frozen), is extremely uncalled for. this is a herp loving site, in fact our pres keeps anoles as pets, and loves them all. if you want to kill another herp for no reason, please do me a favor and don't go public with it. i enjoyed this thread, you have beautiful animals... but find another forum for that talk if you don't mind.

Oh...I forgot to mention.....In the wild, Black Rats don't eat JUST anoles.....they are oppurtunistic feeders who eat a wide variety of prey. A diet that was only or mainly anoles may cause a deficiency. Just FYI.

feeding a black rat anoles isnt gonna kill the snake. i will agree with the fact that a staple diet of anoles is not healthy. but it would take alot of anoles to breed enugh feeders to make them a staple in the diet. but a staple diet of mice with the occasional anole sounds ok. if the snake were to get addicted, that could be a problem. im not sure if that is common or not. that would be something to look into before you fed anoles to your snake.
one of the great parts of the herp community is the diversity of succesful husbandry techniques. just because someone wants to do something a little differently doesnt mean they shouldnt be treated with the same respect as anyone else.

I agree with your point, Mike....but I stand by my opinion that there is absolutely no *good* reason to feed a rodent-eating snake anoles. It certainly won't add anything to the diet....plus it would take several anoles to even make a good meal. And feeding that many prey items could do a number on the gut flora of the snake. Just my .02

ya know, i never even thought of feeding an anole to an adult rat. i will agree, that would be pointless. an anole to a hatchling/juvi would make alittle more sense though. you would definatly have to go out of your way to do it.

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you would definatly have to go out of your way to do it.

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Yeah, and its not worth it if you ask me.

not to you or me, but i guess some people like to.

btw, Xtreme, welcome to the site. thats a nice collection. i wish i could keep a burm in my house.

There are lots of things that people like to do that I don't agree with......I suppose all I can do is lead them to the water, I can't make them drink it.

Thanks Mike!

And as of all you Anole lovers out there. Who ever said I was going to feed them through adulthood? I could easily switch over(not a fact). But I'm sure I could do it if I feed Anoles and PInkies. YOu guys are simply assuming that I'm going to feed strictly Anoles? Please dont assumee....

And David I dont know what happened but it seems like you have a hint of frustration when it comes to me?

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Originally Posted by Wizill

would you feed your dog cats?


though small lizards may be a natural prey item for ratsnakes, I think feeding one that will willingly take rodents, which are higher in nutrition and easier to obtain (most ratsnakes will eat frozen), is extremely uncalled for. this is a herp loving site, in fact our pres keeps anoles as pets, and loves them all. if you want to kill another herp for no reason, please do me a favor and don't go public with it. i enjoyed this thread, you have beautiful animals... but find another forum for that talk if you don't mind.

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No, and I wouldn't feed my cat dog either, nor would I feed my kids' pet rats to my snakes. It's all part of the whole cycle of life thing that's part of loving and feeding predators. If I have a snake whose most optimal food source is lizards, then that is what I will feed him, because that is good husbandry practice. If he's an opportunistic feeder and rodents are actually better nutritionally, then I will feed him rodents. I don't feed rodents to my ball pythons because I don't like rodents. I had my first mouse before I had my first snake, and while mice are stinky, rats are very smart and generally clean and make very good pets.

So why should I not consider anoles as a potentially valid food item just because John keeps them or you're fond of them when people talking about whacking rats all the time around here and I have two pet rats in my house? It's not about being cruel to the anoles, you, or John, it's about feeding appropriately. I want to feed my snakes what's best for them, not what's convenient for me or what I like to see dead. If that were the case, I'd be feeding my snakes roaches and camel crickets.

and feeding anoles is "appropriate" marla?

What I said, Will, was

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If he has them and they are a natural prey item, it makes sense to me to feed them.

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and

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If I have a snake whose most optimal food source is lizards, then that is what I will feed him, because that is good husbandry practice.

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which ought to indicate to you that I would do my research regarding natural and optimal prey items for my snake. If anoles are natural but not optimal for that particular species, I probably would not use them for food. If it were a snake that primarily ate lizards naturally and anoles were the most nutritious appropriately-sized prey item I had access to, you bet I would feed them. I haven't had any reason to do adequate research on this particular species and make the judgement call that would be required, so I can't answer that for if I had Don's ratsnakes. My off-the-cuff guess would be that it's called a "rat"snake for a reason and that rodents would be appropriate prey, but if it naturally has a diverse diet that includes lizards, I don't see any reason to jump on Don for breeding anoles as one part of his snakes' diet.

Mice are more eviler and deserve it.

Proof:

http://www.dutchindoorvillage.com/im...nalee/2195.jpg

Kidding aside I would think the most appropriate diet would be based on nutrition with convenience as a secondary or tertiary consideration. My kids will eat mac'n'cheese all day and while it's not BAD for them - and certainly easy for me since we have a mega box around - it is a poor cornerstone for decent nutrition. (throw a little mouse in the omlette for calcium and protein).

LOL...yer funny, Smulkin!

I think what Marla was trying to say was that it was inappropriate to tell someone NOT to discuss certain feeders on this forum because we're fond of them...which is what it sounded like Will was saying in an earlier post. That got all mixed in with the question of whether or not its appropriate to feed anoles to rat snakes...which of course is open for debate...but maybe should be moved to the feeder forum????

Thank you, Judy. I think any remotely reasonable feeder item is worth discussing, and some unreasonable ones are good for joking around (ya know, like Chee-tos). I've admitted I don't know the optimal food for ratsnakes, but I don't know for a fact that anyone else here does either because I haven't seen anyone offer evidence so support their positions. As people who keep company with predators, I think we have to be willing to face that our friends may prefer food that we're fond of in some way other than food. King Cobra keepers certainly have to face that.

I think it might be helpful for everyone to remember that the purpose of a forum like this is to EXCHANGE IDEAS, not dictate what is right or wrong or good or bad. If you disagree with what someone else is suggesting, you can say so without being argumentative or completely slamming the guy (or girl).

Quite right, Smynx....quite right!

Come on people......this is a RATsnake not a Vine Snake. Anoles are definitely NOT necessary and add nothing to the diet at all. I simply see no reason for this whatsoever.

David, let it go. I see no reason for you to be so argumentative, regardless of whether or not anoles are a "necessary" addition to the snakes diet. You've stated your opinion and Don can take it or leave it. It is, after all, his collection.

I suppose you're right. :roll:

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Originally Posted by Smynx

I think it might be helpful for everyone to remember that the purpose of a forum like this is to EXCHANGE IDEAS, not dictate what is right or wrong or good or bad. If you disagree with what someone else is suggesting, you can say so without being argumentative or completely slamming the guy (or girl).

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Smynx, you've just been promoted to "Queen of Common Sense."

And, with your permission, I'll change my sig line to the above quote. :D

As to the discussion about Anoles being used as feeders.....
Don has stated his intentions, has been given advice to the contrary, and now has to make his own decision. We are not going to harp on the issue. Anoles are used as feeders for some reptiles, so can be part of any feeder discussion, no matter who keeps them as pets. We would all extend the same courtesy to a King Cobra keeper who was a part of the site, even if they fed their KC ball pythons. Just because it is objectionable to you, doesn't necessarily make it wrong.
Play nice.

Amen.

Randy, you are hereby granted permission to use that as your signature line. I will not even copywrite it or charge you royalties.

Thank you, Highness!

After reading this thread, I 've decided to start feeding my BP doritos and White Castle hamburgers.

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Originally Posted by Ken

After reading this thread, I 've decided to start feeding my BP doritos and White Castle hamburgers.

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LOL......smarta$$! :lol: :P

White Castle are low in protein. I would suggest you consider Burger King, Wendy's, or even Arby's as a better source of nutrition for your growing herps. And the Doritos will leave an odd orange tinge to his scales, but that's more of a cosmetic issue.

Long John Silver's! Just keep em away from Taco Bell or you will NEVER be done cleaning the cages.

Si! Es verdad.

ROFL - Who changed my rank?

I'll bet that would be Randy, who dubbed you that. He has The Power.

Randy - you rule.

No, no, Queenie, YOU rule! LMAO :lol: :lol:

Hehe!! That's very cool, Smynx! You deserve it!

wait, wait a minute
I eat anoles, they aren't good for me?
Will I do feed my dog cats! Is that so wrong?

I could definalty go on about this subject, but I agree fully with Randy's comments.
And this is just my opinion based on a *few* years of experience:
Everyone who owns a pet takes care of their pet differently then the next guy. But they ussually think their way is correct. Many of you may not agree with certain aspects of what we do, and I may not like or use the rubbermaid approach (example), but to his, his own.
As long as it works out best for the animal in question
Rusty

I've just started my BP on a strict diet of pancakes (f/t of course) I shape them like Mickey Mouse and he seems to be happy... just lays dormant... content?

I'm sure that's a good sign that he's thriving on the pancake diet. And good for you for going with frozen/thawed. We pretty much all agree that's a better choice. ;)

yeah, definatly, those live pancakes can do so much damage!
MMM where's my syrup
Rusty