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Dream Scenario

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  • 08-30-2012, 02:43 PM
    BWyant
    Dream Scenario
    So, I've actually inquired about getting a loan to pull this off, not too seriously, but I have asked. Let's just say Regions bank wasn't thrilled with the idea of putting snakes up as collateral. But, I digress. This is essentially my initial dream plan, dealing with some of my favorite morphs. I got price quotes from the majority of all the big-name breeders and looked at the racks that I'd really like to have.

    Questions I have for you guys: all my prices seem correct? Some of them didn't list adult or baby or whatever stage of growth, help me out there and let me know exactly what I'd be looking at. Any ways to save some money without sacrificing quality? I'd really like to run a small-scale but extremely professional operation. I know Kobylka is kind of known for his piebalds, so are some breeders better with a morph than another? Things I'm forgetting? Just any tips in general.

    1 ARS 3033 Cage Unit (30 tubs, 33 inches) - $2500 + shipping.
    1 Vision Hatchling Rack (42 tubs, 15 inches) - $950 + shipping.
    Total Caging - $3500

    1.3 Mojave (to produce BELs) - BHB 1.2 $675, VPI 1.3 $1000, NERD Adult Male $300
    1.0 Yellowbelly Het. Piebald - JRK Adult Breeder $800, VPI $750
    0.2 Het. Piebald (to produce Pumpkin Pieds) - BHB Adult $250, VPI Adult $250
    1.2 Pinstripe Het. Black Axanthic (to produce Pinstripe Axanthics, obviously) - N/A... I couldn't find anybody with any of these.
    1.1 Phantom (to produce Super Phantoms) - NERD $2500, VPI 0.1 $1000
    1.0 Mystic (to produce Mystic Potions) - BHB $1100, VPI $700, NERD Adult $1200
    1.1 Champagne (to produce Super Champagnes or mix with others) - VPI $4000, Sloan Brothers $2200, BHB $2200
    0.8 Normal (to produce breeding stock and sellables) - BHB Babies $360 & Adults $1200, VPI $120ea
    I'd probably leave out either the phantoms or the champagnes just to save a little bit.
    Total Snakes - Approximately $7200 (minus either phantoms or champagnes)

    18 snakes x 52 weeks x 2 dollars per rat = $1900
    Total Food - $1900

    Bedding - ? (probably just newspaper or paper towels)
    Cleaner - ? (you'd have to tell me on this one, I'm a newb)
    Vets if needed - (hopefully not, but again, you'd have to tell me)
    Say $1000 for all of this...

    Incubator for eggs - Tough to say... Say, 500ish?

    Total cost - $14,000 (rounded up a couple hundred bucks)

    So.... Am I insane?
  • 08-30-2012, 02:53 PM
    tcutting
    what about heat? thats a cost.
    bedding costs something even if you use paper products. 18 snakes will cost a lot more than that in food per year if you are breeding. Plus what age/size are the first ones going to be?

    Now the real question is how can you tell them that the market isnt going to tank and their collateral is going to keep a decent value during the payback period. and better yet how can you assure them that you are going to be able to make the money back by selling the offspring for a reasonable profit?

    most of the morphs you listed are EXTREMELY common and many small timers have them as well. in the next 2 years the market is going to get a strong surge of these much like it did pastels and Hypos. now those are a dime a dozen and found at petsmart and petco's nationwide.

    thats just my very quick overview and thought on the topic. and building your own racks and incubator may save you some cash. and prices of the ones you want and listed are always changing. keep a close eye on kingsnake and faunaclassifieds.
  • 08-30-2012, 03:04 PM
    Mike41793
    I personally would start out WAY smaller and work your way up.

    What happens if you jump in head first and get bored of it? You'll be out $15K and Regions bank wont be happy lol. Have you ever kept/bred snakes before?
  • 08-30-2012, 03:16 PM
    BWyant
    Re: Dream Scenario
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tcutting View Post
    what about heat? thats a cost.

    Yup, electric bill going up. I knew that, just didn't account for it there. That's why I asked.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tcutting View Post
    bedding costs something even if you use paper products.

    Factored that in with the vets and cleaners.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tcutting View Post
    18 snakes will cost a lot more than that in food per year if you are breeding.

    Really? I assumed that not every snake would eat every week (shed, not hungry, etc) and because they were breeding, they also wouldn't eat as much during breeding season... Or are you referring to getting them up to breeding-weight?

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tcutting View Post
    Plus what age/size are the first ones going to be?

    Some adults, some babies. I wouldn't expect to make all my money back in a single year. More like three.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tcutting View Post
    Now the real question is how can you tell them that the market isnt going to tank and their collateral is going to keep a decent value during the payback period. and better yet how can you assure them that you are going to be able to make the money back by selling the offspring for a reasonable profit?

    most of the morphs you listed are EXTREMELY common and many small timers have them as well. in the next 2 years the market is going to get a strong surge of these much like it did pastels and Hypos. now those are a dime a dozen and found at petsmart and petco's nationwide.

    I probably wouldn't go with a bank based upon my first experience trying that route. I'd probably get financial help from the fam.

    As far as the morphs, obviously mojos are relatively common, but BELs, super phantoms/champagnes and potions are considered commonplace now?

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tcutting View Post
    thats just my very quick overview and thought on the topic. and building your own racks and incubator may save you some cash. and prices of the ones you want and listed are always changing. keep a close eye on kingsnake and faunaclassifieds.

    I appreciate the reply and hope the discussion keeps going.

    Thanks,
    -Brock.
  • 08-30-2012, 03:17 PM
    Andybill
    A plan and budget break down is great but there are always other costs that just pop up that are very difficult to plan for. Cost of electricity? Its gonna run your bill up. If you are looking to save money drop the 1.1 Champs. As far as I am aware the only super champs to have been produced have not survived so I would scrap that idea and just stick to one champ. And I dont think 1.3 mojos is necessary to begin with I would mix it up a bit more and get a male mojo with the following females:

    special, phantom, butter.

    Thats just me tho... I cant tell you to start out small cuz I didnt. I went from 2 bps to 13 in a span of 3 months... I would have a bigger cushion for unexpected expenses than just 1000.
  • 08-30-2012, 03:17 PM
    BWyant
    Re: Dream Scenario
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mike41793 View Post
    I personally would start out WAY smaller and work your way up.

    What happens if you jump in head first and get bored of it? You'll be out $15K and Regions bank wont be happy lol. Have you ever kept/bred snakes before?

    With a 15k investment.... Let's put it this way - I wouldn't allow myself to get bored. Period.

    I hear what you're saying though. I've had exotic fish (only really bad part about that was cleaning day) and I've babysat a friend's snakes before. I guess I'm just looking at it as more of a.... I'm 27 and want a business so that I can do something productive with my life, I love animals, snakes are awesome and worth money, why not combine the two and do something that I love rather than sit in a cubicle for the next 40 years?
  • 08-30-2012, 03:18 PM
    DavidMundy
    Instead of getting a huge loan on all those common snakes, why don't you slowly invest into multiple gene females and a few visual recessive females? Raise them up for a year or two then buy multiple gene males? I understand your excitement/hopes for a breeding business but you have to be smart. All of those snakes you listed are fairly common now and the prices will plummet in the next 2 years. It would probably take you 2-4 years if your lucky to be able to pay off that loan just from profit of selling babies.
  • 08-30-2012, 03:27 PM
    BWyant
    Re: Dream Scenario
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Andybill View Post
    A plan and budget break down is great but there are always other costs that just pop up that are very difficult to plan for. Cost of electricity? Its gonna run your bill up. If you are looking to save money drop the 1.1 Champs. As far as I am aware the only super champs to have been produced have not survived so I would scrap that idea and just stick to one champ. And I dont think 1.3 mojos is necessary to begin with I would mix it up a bit more and get a male mojo with the following females:

    special, phantom, butter.

    Thats just me tho... I cant tell you to start out small cuz I didnt. I went from 2 bps to 13 in a span of 3 months... I would have a bigger cushion for unexpected expenses than just 1000.

    Thank you. Good info, especially about the champagnes.

    Yeah, unfortunately that budget just continues to slowly get bigger and bigger.... kind of like a snake, really. LoL.

    I've definitely thought about scrapping the mojo route for the BELs though and getting at least one butter.

    Thanks again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DavidMundy View Post
    Instead of getting a huge loan on all those common snakes, why don't you slowly invest into multiple gene females and a few visual recessive females? Raise them up for a year or two then buy multiple gene males? I understand your excitement/hopes for a breeding business but you have to be smart. All of those snakes you listed are fairly common now and the prices will plummet in the next 2 years. It would probably take you 2-4 years if your lucky to be able to pay off that loan just from profit of selling babies.

    Oh, I'm not worried about paying off the money in a single year. That's not going to happen. It's damn near impossible for a small-business that's starting up to pay off their debt in the first year. I'd be looking at more like 3 years as the goal, just like you mentioned.

    The thing I'm not seeing is how the snakes I mentioned are fairly common. I mean, yeah, the base morphs are, but BELs, Pumpkin Pieds and Super Phantoms ain't cheap.

    You think it would be a better idea to just have a couple of powerhouse snakes so that food costs aren't as high and whatnot? I'm just a little concerned that if one of them were to croak or if the female didn't lay a clutch or if the eggs went bad... Then what? At least with that many snakes it's not like I'm putting all my eggs in one basket, literally.
  • 08-30-2012, 03:27 PM
    Freakie_frog
    Now the few things I saw missing.

    Water bowls
    Food for Babies
    More baby houseing becaue with the number of females you have listed you couldn't breed more than 7. so add another baby rack


    I say add another 2-3K for baby's and you'll be set..

    Other than water, power.
  • 08-30-2012, 03:28 PM
    tcutting
    most of the snakes you are trying to get up to weight will eat easily twice a week. especially the females. once up to weight and they drop their eggs to get them back up to weight you will want to feed them heavy again. Assuming only 1 meal a week per animal I don’t think is good planning. I say plan for the worse (in this case highest cost) and hope for the best. But in this case the females eating a ton is also the best case.

    BELs will be a dime a dozen and the potions may not be the as common but still by the point you will be producing they will be far more common than you think. here is a link that outlines what i am getting at....
    http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=943718

    I could be wrong but i could be right. food for thought.
  • 08-30-2012, 03:32 PM
    jjmitchell
    Re: Dream Scenario
    To be honest before you spend anything on snakes it seems you need to understand genetics a bit better...........

    There is no reason to have phantoms and mystics... they are the same thing.....

    no reason to have 1.2 pinstripe het axanthics you are shooting yourself in the foot spending alot of money and limiting yourself to makeing 2 morphs.... if that is what you want to swing do something like a het bel of some sort het axanthic male i would go with mojave myself to a pin het axanthic and pastel het axanthic or something simmilar it would open you up to making multiple morphs and make it easier to expand on that project sooner for such a blooming project as black axanthic

    and you are doing the same thing with 1.3 mojaves.... why not get the same number of animals save money and expand on you genetic power.. use your phantom male to breed a mojo female, mocha female, and lesser female or something simmilar open your diversity up

    I would not buy a pair of champagne the super form is lethal buy a male or female and open up your diversity and use the money on the other champagne for something else....

    I wont beat you up any more lol.... you are just new and have blinders on.... yes you will need some normal females at some point but fewer pastel females would be more bang off the line... fewer males with multiple genes would give you more power with less cost of caging and feed... I think you have good intentions, you just need to think outside the box..... dont work so hard to produce stuff that the market is being flooded with, you need to produce something new or rare to be able to move the offspring..... Just think about what I have said... I apologize if I have come off abrasive or rude
  • 08-30-2012, 03:34 PM
    DavidMundy
    I suggest you view this video if you haven't already.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYrHOBB5zoY
    It's not about the quantity of animals you have. It's all about the quality of the animals you have. A few 2 or 3 gene females costing anywhere from $500-$1000 each, when paired to a stunning quality male (preferably 2+ genes) can make you more than a lot of those single gene animals you were planning on purchasing.
  • 08-30-2012, 03:37 PM
    Mike41793
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BWyant View Post
    With a 15k investment.... Let's put it this way - I wouldn't allow myself to get bored. Period.

    I hear what you're saying though. I've had exotic fish (only really bad part about that was cleaning day) and I've babysat a friend's snakes before. I guess I'm just looking at it as more of a.... I'm 27 and want a business so that I can do something productive with my life, I love animals, snakes are awesome and worth money, why not combine the two and do something that I love rather than sit in a cubicle for the next 40 years?

    I HIGHLY suggest not doing this so fast then. My intention isnt to belittle you in any way, but if you have minimal experience with snakes then you cant honestly say that you know you'll like keeping them.

    The fact is no matter how much you spend, theres still a possibility that you could get bored of them. You cant force yourself to love something. If you do get bored of them and are forcing yourself to love them, then taking care of them becomes a chore and is not fun anymore. Thats when the animals will start to suffer. I realize it is possible for someone to hate bps and still take perfect care of them, but ive personally never seen that be the case.

    My suggestion for you is this: start out much smaller and with multigene snakes (as david suggested^). I would get a 4 tub rack from RBI and a VE-200 tstat. Get 3 multi gene baby females and start to grow them up. Then in 2 years add a multigene male to breed to them. This will give you the oppurtunity to gain experience with snakes/snake keeping and in your first year of breeding you'll get only 3 clutches instead of WAY more. You'll be able to produce wicked combos too bc all of your snakes are multigened. Spend your money on finding the BEST examples of the morphs you which to breed. Breed what you like, not what will sell best. Because if you cant sell your babies you'll end up having to holdback a bunch of babies of a morph you think is ugly lol.
  • 08-30-2012, 03:45 PM
    BWyant
    Re: Dream Scenario
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jjmitchell View Post
    To be honest before you spend anything on snakes it seems you need to understand genetics a bit better...........

    There is no reason to have phantoms and mystics... they are the same thing.....

    no reason to have 1.2 pinstripe het axanthics you are shooting yourself in the foot spending alot of money and limiting yourself to makeing 2 morphs.... if that is what you want to swing do something like a het bel of some sort het axanthic male i would go with mojave myself to a pin het axanthic and pastel het axanthic or something simmilar it would open you up to making multiple morphs and make it easier to expand on that project sooner for such a blooming project as black axanthic

    and you are doing the same thing with 1.3 mojaves.... why not get the same number of animals save money and expand on you genetic power.. use your phantom male to breed a mojo female, mocha female, and lesser female or something simmilar open your diversity up

    I would not buy a pair of champagne the super form is lethal buy a male or female and open up your diversity and use the money on the other champagne for something else....

    I wont beat you up any more lol.... you are just new and have blinders on.... yes you will need some normal females at some point but fewer pastel females would be more bang off the line... fewer males with multiple genes would give you more power with less cost of caging and feed... I think you have good intentions, you just need to think outside the box..... dont work so hard to produce stuff that the market is being flooded with, you need to produce something new or rare to be able to move the offspring..... Just think about what I have said... I apologize if I have come off abrasive or rude

    Not abusive or rude at all, friend.

    That's why I put myself out there to people with far more experience than I've got (zero). You don't get answers if you don't ask questions and you end up making a lot of mistakes if you don't ask for an instruction manual (metaphorically speaking). You were quite helpful. Thank you.
  • 08-30-2012, 03:46 PM
    jjmitchell
    Re: Dream Scenario
    Just wanting to throw another thought out.... any investment in an animal is riskey and well stupid... just think about this....lets say you barrow the money for these animals.... if you do not buy adults (most of your prices reflect baby price) how will you make payments on the loan untill animals are at breeding size? What happens if for something happens and you loose one or more animal (lets face it there are some nasty things in the reptile world that can wipe out a collection quick)....

    Why not do it this way... figure out what your monthley payments would be for your 15k loan and make the payments to yourself and use what you pay yourself to build your collection it may be slower but you will not have someone with their hand out saying you owe me.....pay up.... and you will grow your collection slower and have the ability to work on newer more exciting projects that pop up between now and the time you start actually breeding instead of having your set projects and not being able to change directions or aquire new projects along the way... just know how often I change directions on the projects I want to work....
  • 08-30-2012, 03:48 PM
    Jabberwocky Dragons
    Have you considered where and how you'll sell all these offspring?

    Another reason for starting out slowly is to give yourself time to establish a good reputation. What are you going to do if you can't sell a significant amount of the babies you produce? Take the advice given repeatedly by many different posters and go with a couple females. Learn how to breed and sell the offspring while steadily building up your collection. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable buying animals from a large collection where the owner asks this:

    Quote:

    Cleaner - ? (you'd have to tell me on this one, I'm a newb)
    You better know how to clean everything inside out with that many animals! Start slow, enjoy the ride, and you'll get there in the end if that's your goal :gj:
  • 08-30-2012, 03:53 PM
    Freakie_frog
    Re: Dream Scenario
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jjmitchell View Post
    Just wanting to throw another thought out.... any investment in an animal is riskey and well stupid... just think about this....lets say you barrow the money for these animals.... if you do not buy adults (most of your prices reflect baby price) how will you make payments on the loan untill animals are at breeding size? What happens if for something happens and you loose one or more animal (lets face it there are some nasty things in the reptile world that can wipe out a collection quick)....

    Why not do it this way... figure out what your monthley payments would be for your 15k loan and make the payments to yourself and use what you pay yourself to build your collection it may be slower but you will not have someone with their hand out saying you owe me.....pay up.... and you will grow your collection slower and have the ability to work on newer more exciting projects that pop up between now and the time you start actually breeding instead of having your set projects and not being able to change directions or aquire new projects along the way... just know how often I change directions on the projects I want to work....

    Someones a Dave Ramsey listener.
  • 08-30-2012, 03:58 PM
    jjmitchell
    Re: Dream Scenario
    LMAO I have never listened to Dave Ramsey.... I just dont believe in buying things I cant afford with few exceptions (house, car ect)
  • 08-30-2012, 03:58 PM
    BWyant
    Re: Dream Scenario
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DavidMundy View Post
    I suggest you view this video if you haven't already.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYrHOBB5zoY
    It's not about the quantity of animals you have. It's all about the quality of the animals you have. A few 2 or 3 gene females costing anywhere from $500-$1000 each, when paired to a stunning quality male (preferably 2+ genes) can make you more than a lot of those single gene animals you were planning on purchasing.

    Thanks,

    That actually makes me feel better about doing it either direction - lots of snakes or just a few powerhouses.
  • 08-30-2012, 04:08 PM
    Dave Green
    Don't borrow, buy what you can afford and slowly build your collection...slow and steady wins the race.
  • 08-30-2012, 04:10 PM
    BWyant
    Re: Dream Scenario
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jabberwocky Dragons View Post
    Have you considered where and how you'll sell all these offspring?

    Website (I work for a friend with web-design company part-time, so it'd come free). Pet stores. Local reptile shop. Local reptile expo. I've also got a few ideas for things to do with the sheds, ala. J. Kobylka.

    Selling offspring isn't the only way to make money with a snake, thankfully.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jabberwocky Dragons View Post
    Another reason for starting out slowly is to give yourself time to establish a good reputation. What are you going to do if you can't sell a significant amount of the babies you produce? Take the advice given repeatedly by many different posters and go with a couple females. Learn how to breed and sell the offspring while steadily building up your collection. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable buying animals from a large collection where the owner asks this:

    You better know how to clean everything inside out with that many animals! Start slow, enjoy the ride, and you'll get there in the end if that's your goal :gj:

    LoL. I'd probably go with chlorhexidine and then rinse it really well since I haven't got a steam cleaner. I was more concerned with how much it cost to clean snake cages for a year. But yeah, I probably wouldn't buy from someone that didn't know what to clean a cage with either.... Think a little Febreeze and Windex would work? :P

    Thanks.
  • 08-30-2012, 04:12 PM
    jjmitchell
    Re: Dream Scenario
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jjmitchell View Post
    LMAO I have never listened to Dave Ramsey.... I just dont believe in buying things I cant afford with few exceptions (house, car ect)

    LOL looked at this and it seemed stupid.... I dont buy houses and cars I cant afford lol... those are the only things I can justify financing......
  • 08-30-2012, 04:21 PM
    Jabberwocky Dragons
    Re: Dream Scenario
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BWyant View Post
    Website (I work for a friend with web-design company part-time, so it'd come free). Pet stores. Local reptile shop. Local reptile expo. I've also got a few ideas for things to do with the sheds, ala. J. Kobylka.

    Selling offspring isn't the only way to make money with a snake, thankfully.



    LoL. I'd probably go with chlorhexidine and then rinse it really well since I haven't got a steam cleaner. I was more concerned with how much it cost to clean snake cages for a year. But yeah, I probably wouldn't buy from someone that didn't know what to clean a cage with either.... Think a little Febreeze and Windex would work? :P

    Thanks.


    Gotcha, thanks for clarifying that! You can get a gallon bottle of chlorhexidine for ~$15 shipped and it should easily last a year. Paper towels, shop towels, etc will end up costing more than the cleaner.
  • 08-30-2012, 08:35 PM
    BWyant
    Re: Dream Scenario
    So... Let's talk plan revision.

    Since folks seem to think I'd be better served to go with fewer snakes and more powerful genes....

    Ya'll set me up a scenario where I'd still produce BELs, Pumpkin Pieds, Pin-Axanthics, Potions and Super Phantoms, spend less, and have less snakes. Not trying to be snooty or whatever, just want to see how other folks would do it, 'cause I thought I'd put some decent thought into my plan. Then again, me planning all of that is kind of like the president of a graduating high school class thinking he should be a senator, no experience.

    Thanks everyone,
    -Brock (wishes my last name was Wagner) :P
  • 09-03-2012, 08:28 PM
    BleedingOrange36
    Are you handy with tools and building materials?
    You could get your self started with a nice 4 bin rack ( I wish I had the money to buy a nice setup rack, I just can't justify it when I can build one myself)
    Get 3 multi gene females and 1 multi gene male of your choice. While growing them out start building a hatchling rack, a rodent rack and an incubator.
    Breeding your own rodents would cut down on some expense, and you could possibly build your name and customer base by selling them.
    Now that I have given you my strategy..... It's back to the drawing board lol.
    I have built my collection from 1 ball python to 11 snakes in under 3 months for under 300$
    I also have some of the best examples of the morphs I own. They may all be single genes, but I can't be picky on my budget. After my 2300$ in bills each month, I'm not left with much.
    I feel like I lost the point to what I was getting at. You should think of ways to get your name out there and bring in at least some type of income with your project. You may even find that you enjoy building racks, then you could sell them on Craigslist or at expos. You get to talking to people, give them a heads up on future projects and you may possibly get a fees calls or emails come hatching season.
  • 09-03-2012, 08:44 PM
    Mike41793
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BleedingOrange36 View Post
    Are you handy with tools and building materials?
    You could get your self started with a nice 4 bin rack ( I wish I had the money to buy a nice setup rack, I just can't justify it when I can build one myself)
    Get 3 multi gene females and 1 multi gene male of your choice. While growing them out start building a hatchling rack, a rodent rack and an incubator.
    Breeding your own rodents would cut down on some expense, and you could possibly build your name and customer base by selling them.
    Now that I have given you my strategy..... It's back to the drawing board lol.
    I have built my collection from 1 ball python to 11 snakes in under 3 months for under 300$
    I also have some of the best examples of the morphs I own. They may all be single genes, but I can't be picky on my budget. After my 2300$ in bills each month, I'm not left with much.
    I feel like I lost the point to what I was getting at. You should think of ways to get your name out there and bring in at least some type of income with your project. You may even find that you enjoy building racks, then you could sell them on Craigslist or at expos. You get to talking to people, give them a heads up on future projects and you may possibly get a fees calls or emails come hatching season.

    You got ten bps that are the best examples of their morphs for $300...? I call BS.

    Either youre yanking my chain or you got the best deal ever lol.
  • 09-03-2012, 09:23 PM
    BleedingOrange36
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mike41793 View Post
    You got ten bps that are the best examples of their morphs for $300...? I call BS.

    Either youre yanking my chain or you got the best deal ever lol.

    I said 11 snakes, not all of them are Bp's. 2 are womas, one of which was a trade for a paintball gun I've had sitting around. Free Cali banded kind and free hypo- Mel corn.
    I picked up a gorgeous male fire for 100$
    http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/04/a9ezuhyz.jpg

    http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/04/ehypajuj.jpg
    My other morph male is a NERD line lemon pastel. He is absolutely gorgeous with incredible blushing. And the brightest green eyes I have ever seen.
    http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/04/e4umejeq.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/04/9e3upudy.jpg
    I picked him up with a sweet 1300 gram normal dinker girl that has a granite thing going on. The pair of them set me back 100$http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/04/agese9uz.jpg
    http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/04/juqy8e9a.jpg
    My big normal girl was 50$ and she is 2473grams right now empty.
    My little female set me back 40$
    A very nice lady actually bought me a male from petsmart after talking to get for about an hr about reptiles.
    He may be a normal, but I plan to dink around with him as soon as he's up to weight. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/04/4ydabyny.jpg
    http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/04/2avyzude.jpg
    He has extremely pinkish/ peachish sides. Almost has an enchi look to me.

    In my eyes an from what I'm told by people that see them in person, I'm doing alright for only 3 months in.
    I have more into my snake room than my snakes.
    I was just offering up some ideas from someone just into this, but from a budget minded view.
  • 09-03-2012, 09:54 PM
    BleedingOrange36
    I also meant that in my eyes and from what I've seen, I feel my fire and lemon pastel are really nice examples of those morphs. I have also been told that they are excellent examples and would be a nice addition to any collection.
  • 09-03-2012, 10:15 PM
    Mike41793
    Ahhh ok i interpreted that wrong then. Not all bps, gotcha.

    Your fire is hot. The pastel is pretty nice too. Id say youve done pretty well for only 3months :gj:
  • 09-03-2012, 10:41 PM
    BleedingOrange36
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mike41793 View Post
    Ahhh ok i interpreted that wrong then. Not all bps, gotcha.

    Your fire is hot. The pastel is pretty nice too. Id say youve done pretty well for only 3months :gj:

    I didn't mean to come off in a negative way by any means. There is always misinterpretation through text of any sort.
    I just want to shed some light to people like myself that are new to this. A majority of younger people I talk to that want to get into this think they need to Max out every credit card and pull small business loans out to be a name in the game.
    If it was that easy, wouldn't everyone do it? It takes a real dedication that I imagine every breeder, large or small realizes. I spend roughly 2-5 hrs each day after work in my snake room. I have barely seen any of my best friends in the last two months. If it wasn't for my girlfriend, who also is as passionate about this as myself, I would probably seem weird to people that don't understand.
    I think the point I'm getting at now is that you have to have a real passion for this to succeed.
    I see the original poster has taken the time to lay out a budget, and seek the necessary information to make revisions to that budget. But with no prior experience with keeping a large collection or exotic animals, it may become overwhelming.
    I can probably say with certainty, that a large majority of breeders on this site, and most breeders in general become overwhelmed at times.
    There are many other aspects involved with this besides budgeting for the project. You need a well established herp vet that has exp with bp's. I wouldn't trust the life of a 20,000$ snake in any ones hands. Depending on the state of residence, there are also necessary permits needed to breed for profit.
    His budget also didn't include thermostats, quarantine rack ( or separate room to guarantee the health of 10,000$ collection) oil heaters on a separate thermostat, an increase in home owners/ renters insurance to cover the collection. He would also need a way to document an record his information. A high quality camera and some way to take a professional photo.
    There are many many others things I am not hitting on, but I would like to hear from people with more thantype 3 months experience I have.
  • 09-03-2012, 10:44 PM
    cecilbturtle
    Don't forget to factor in your time. Time is a pretty valuable commodity. You'll spend a good amount of time cleaning, watering, checking temps, etc... Once breeding season comes around you'll be even busier.

    I'm not saying you are but if you are going into this solely based on making money then my advice is don't. You really have to enjoy this hobby to make any money from it. I've made money breeding but enjoy it way more when there's not so much pressure.
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