Lost My Clutch

Well I sadly lost my clutch and am really rather discouraged about it. I am thinking perhaps I just did not set up the egg tub correctly and it got too wet. If anyone has some links to some more educational sites about setting up good tubs and taking care of eggs I would really appreciate it. I am not sure what I am doing wrong. If I am checking on them too much, changing the substrate too much or not enough. How often do people check their eggs? Is it ever necessary to switch to a new tub with fresh substrate for the right moisture content? Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks guys.

I use hatchrite and add water to the corners in small increments as needed, theres no reason to switch containers. I incubate at 89.5 to 90 F. What are using for an incubator?

I never switch substrate. I use the SIM method, suspend eggs over wet vermiculite. No humidity in the egg box whatsoever, until a little before hatch time.

So far, the SIM method has been by far the most successful for us.

Changing the substrate? :O

I use 6qt locking tubs, vermiculite about two inches thick, with light diffuser on top. I add water in the corners until the vermiculite is thoroughly saturated. I don't really ever check them besides the initial vein check and peeking through the incubator glass. I don't have to add water. There is no humidity in the tub until they are about a week from hatching and then condensation forms on the tub walls. I cut at day 50-51 with small triangle slits. They usually come out 4-5 days after. I incubated at 90.5 or so.

Regards,

B

I have an old wine fridge that was converted into an incubator. The temps were good the whole time, steadily between 89.7-90. I think my issue was too much moisture. I had the verm with the light difuser that the eggs were sitting on. The eggs began to look dimpled, which scared me, I thought the moisture was too low so I ended up adding more. I think I ended up adding too much because the eggs molded. So once you set the box up the first time with the substrate equal weight (based on he video I saw) water and verm, where it crumbles in your hand... then you never have to change it or anything? You just add a little moisture? How often? I am terrified of blowing it again. :\

My method 15 good eggs this year.

Shoe box tubs
Light diffuser panels, from lowes. Or an. Old office building
Vermiculite from your local garden center
Glad press and seal
Incubator 88-90

Cut ur light diffuser to size. Place vermiculite in tub. Fill with water until there is slight standing water. Then place two layers of light diffuser. So top layer is just above wAter..place eggs, cover with glad and lid.. Leave them. Open tubs and exchange the air once a week.

How do you guys not get condensation? I haven't had any BP eggs, but I do use the same method for my leopard gecko eggs. My eggs are all hatching fine, but I do have constant condensation on the lid of my tub.

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Originally Posted by Crawly's Mom

I have an old wine fridge that was converted into an incubator. The temps were good the whole time, steadily between 89.7-90. I think my issue was too much moisture. I had the verm with the light difuser that the eggs were sitting on. The eggs began to look dimpled, which scared me, I thought the moisture was too low so I ended up adding more. I think I ended up adding too much because the eggs molded. So once you set the box up the first time with the substrate equal weight (based on he video I saw) water and verm, where it crumbles in your hand... then you never have to change it or anything? You just add a little moisture? How often? I am terrified of blowing it again. :\

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If you're using the "crumbly vermiculite" method, usually the eggs sit directly on the verm. If you're using the light diffuser method, you add water till the verm is thoroughly soaked. There might even be small puddles forming on the top of it, then you add a light diffuser on top and the eggs go on top of that. The eggs should never come in direct contact with the water. Honestly you could use just water and a light diffuser, no substrate, but then there's nothing to prevent the water from sloshing around when you move the tub and getting on the eggs. If you think your eggs look a little dimpled too early, you can lightly mist them with water or place a damp paper towel on top of them.


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I use the light diffuser method as well, with Perlite. The only reason you use vermiculite or perlite is to keep the water from sloshing and touching the eggs. I've even seen some people use pebbles in the bottom. Sorry you lost the clutch. If you do a search on this forum for egg tubs, you will find many different ways to set them up. I think for the inexperienced, the diffuser is a good method because you don't have to worry about how wet or dry your medium is.

I don't change the substrate AT ALL. That's odd, you shouldn't have to do that.

I did wind up having to cling-wrap the tubs to keep the humidity up. I didn't have to do that last year---I think it's the new incubator with the fan blowing dry Arizona air around.

I also check on the eggs once a day, particularly as the hatch date gets closer. (Partly because I was worried about oxygen. But mostly I'm bored and I want them to hatch already.) I don't think checking on them hurts them, just your/my sanity.

There's plenty of condensation on my tubs, particularly on the side by the fridge door. Condensation means there's a temperature gradient in the incubator, so the inside of the tub is warmer than the outside. It's nearly impossible to avoid in a small incubator.

I keep the eggs away from the side of the tub, and I use a bit of the plastic light grating to keep the eggs from sitting directly in the vermiculite:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-G...0/IMG_5608.jpg

... I would definitely recommend the grating next year. Given what happened this season, you might even want to try the substrate-less incubation, with just some water in the bottom of the tub and three pieces of grating stacked to keep the eggs out of the water. I don't really like water incubation, because I do check on the eggs so frequently, and the water sloshes when I pull the tubs out.... but definitely do consider the grating on top of a slightly drier substrate next year.

And last, temperatures. A heat spike can kill a whole clutch like that. What's your incubator?

Sorry you lost your clutch, I'm sure you are pretty disappointed as it takes a lot of work and time before you finally get eggs and to loss them must be hard. No offense at all and please take this as advice not criticism. I think beginners mess with eggs way too much; but, that's understandable as they are stressed, excited, anxious, etc. I know it can be stressful but these eggs are incredibly hardy. I actually drove two clutches across the country in a rattling RV and all the babies hatched no problem. I'm old school (because I'm old) and put the eggs directly on moistened vermiculite. I don't measure anything, I just mix the vermiculite until it clumps together. If you squeeze the vermiculite and it doesn't clump add more water, if it clumps but seeps water add vermiculite. Once the eggs are set up I check on them from time to time but that's about it. I almost never add water and they are fine. I also have a few small air holes in the tubs. I know many seal up their tubs but I always figured a little air is good. You can ask 10 people and probably get 8 different ways people set up their eggs. I think consistency is best and messing with them causes more problems then it helps. Good luck in the future.

I think my problem really was adding too much water. I had a grate/light diffuser in my tub. Apparently I added too much water and the grate sunk into the vermiculite so that it was touching the bottom of the eggs. By the time I realized it I think it was too late, it was only a day or so but it was still too much time. Maybe I will try stacking the grates next time so that there is no chance that they touch the verm below. I was checking them pretty frequently, maybe I would have just been better off leaving them be. I was just so stressed and I wanted everything to go well. Apparently I didn't get that wish. Hopefully next time around I will be better off.

In my larger egg boxes, for big clutches, I cut pieces of PVC to hold up the light diffuser. It keeps it from sinking in and allowing the eggs to get wet. Maybe you could do that. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Crawly's Mom

I think my problem really was adding too much water. I had a grate/light diffuser in my tub. Apparently I added too much water and the grate sunk into the vermiculite so that it was touching the bottom of the eggs. By the time I realized it I think it was too late, it was only a day or so but it was still too much time. Maybe I will try stacking the grates next time so that there is no chance that they touch the verm below. I was checking them pretty frequently, maybe I would have just been better off leaving them be. I was just so stressed and I wanted everything to go well. Apparently I didn't get that wish. Hopefully next time around I will be better off.

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Aw, that sucks. It just doesn't sound like you did anything all that obviously wrong, so I wonder if there was a heat spike.

Yeah, I put too much water in after the first clutched dimpled badly the first day. Overcompensation is the devil, I tell you. But my friend keeps pounding me on the head about "too dry is better than too wet", so maybe it was only a LITTLE too wet.

That's why I use light diffuser on top of the substrate. That way you don't have to worry about your eggs getting too wet. I pretty much ruined my eggs the first year because I put the eggs directly on hatchrite.

Sorry to hear about your first clutch issues. Don't feel too bad same thing happened to me last year with my first clutch. Made some adjustments and have not had a problem since. Hang in there.

I am sorry for your loss dear. If it is any consolation, I lost my first clutch due to inexperience as well. I had decided to go substrateless, and I had my pearlite in the box, a grate on top of that, and then water about 3/4ths of the depth of the pearlite. I put the lid on the tub, but the eggs caved in right away. I added more water and added more water. Finally I ditched the pearlite and just had the eggs suspended over about 4" of water. They just would not plump up, and I didn't know why. Eventually I knew they were gone, and when I cut them, they had dried out to the point almost of mummification. I couldn't understand why they were dried out. For crying out loud, they were sitting over 4" of water, how could that be dry??!!

The next season, we tried again. Same pearlite, same grate, and same eggs collapsing. Then I did what I should have in the first place and got a hygrometer. Turns out the lid was NOT holding in humidity. Despite the ridiculous amount of water under the eggs, humidity in the box was only 30%. Added saran wrap under the lid, and the humidity went off the chart, 60 days later I had babies. So it happens to a lot of us.

Now, you talk about the eggs molding. Can I ask exactly what they looked like? Did they turn greyish at first, then kind of yellowish? Did you see actual mold and if so what color was it? I've had eggs get some mold on them and still hatch, so we need to pinpoint what went wrong. I do know when I incubate, I use hatchrite but I put my eggs in a basket and suspend them over the hatchrite. I add enough water that I can see it slosh around a bit when I move the box. I open the box once a week to exchange air until about day 50, when I open it every three until someone pips. It is critical your egg tub is good and clean, no sense in adding extra problems. How sure are you your incubator held steady temps? I know temps that swing up and down will kill clutch. And sometimes you can do everything right, and still loose the eggs. It happens.

Gale

I was afraid they were not moist enough because they began to dimple really badly. So I was adding more water, then thought maybe the tub was releasing too much moisture, so I put some plastic wrap between the tub and the lid to hold the moisture in. I must have put too much water in because the grate sank into the substrate and when I caught it the water was touching the bottom of the eggs. I tried to fix the issue. I was told to wipe them dry, I did. I was told to sprinkle them with foot powder to try and kill any bacteria, I did that too. Here is a picture... really hard for me. I was so excited when I candled and saw movement, so to lose them is very rough.

http://i50.tinypic.com/5ysz8n.jpg