What's the right thing to do?

What are some of the mishaps that can occur when breeding and selling balls?

Accidentally selling a ball with a barely noticeable kink?
Selling a ball that refuses to eat after a move?
Selling a het that doesn't prove out? (sperm retention mistake*)
Shipping a ball that shows up dead, or not at all (shipping mishap?)
Selling a desert female to someone who plans to breed, but didn't do the research?
Selling a sick snake (RI, mites, internal parasites, scalerot, etc..)

I'm sure there are more. Feel free to comment with more potential issues. I do realize that some of these can be avoided with strict quality control and buyer responsibility, but when these issues DO happen, what would you do to rectify the situation? You can quote this post, and enter your solution to the situations in a line beneath them :gj:. I have yet to breed and sell my babies, but i've been the buyer in some of the situations mentioned.

I just talked to a breeder today that I got my Pied girl from. I was wondering if he had any 100% Het pied girls of breeding size. He said he had 2 possible Hets around 2000g each. They were sold to him as 100% hets, but he could not prove them out, so he refuses to sell them as 100% hets. That's the stand-up thing to do.

Another breeder I bought a snake from had a female I was interested in. He said she's a horrible eater.... a 2009 at 900g. He'd discount it disclosing that information to me, but he could have said she was a 2010 he was just letting go.

Another breeder had a super pastel girl on his site. When I inquired about it, he said he was not 100% she was a super anymore after her last few sheds, and could not sell her as a super in good faith but would sell her as a pastel.... again, the stand up thing to do.

No one can predict how a bp will act, or feed after being shipped across country, or simply changing homes from being picked up at a local show. Generally there is no guarantee on feeding due to these issues, but a good breeder will work with you.

Return policies.
That's what they're for.
Also honesty
Most breeders are very much honest and not out to actually "make money" for the sake of money.
Its a passion of the hobby.
I plan on selling my babies and intend on pricing for quality, shipping quality healthy worms, and making a good name for myself in doing so.
If things go wrong, well there's nothing to do but rectify it with the buyer.
And personally, I'd rather keep my customer happy and loyal than filthify my name.
Do what is right.
And all will be well.


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

I don't think anyone should ever sell a sick or mite infested snake. Those are things anyone who isn't a flipper would notice beforehand.

As for arriving dead, this can be avoided by shipping and packing properly. I believe any other reason would be the carriers fault, or the person receiving it. Being lost or held up in shipment for days.. Or the person receiving it leaving it outside too long. Of course this can also be attributed to the carrier not getting a signature. If the shipment is set up correctly by the seller, designated overnight express with signature required, insuring the package, shipped only to a hub or business if using FedEx with your own certified account, or following the protocol listed by SYR when using them, these things can all be avoided and should never fall on the seller.

The other issues you speak of should be dealt with professionally.

Only once did I sell a mis-sexed ball and immediately offered a replacement. The customer instead opted for a better morph at a discount. Which I was happy to do. It was, and still is, a repeat customer :)

A breeder needs to take every precaution with every animal, and every sale. If a mistake is made and it is the breeders fault, they should definitely fix the issue.

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Originally Posted by sookieball

Return policies.
That's what they're for.
Also honesty
Most breeders are very much honest and not out to actually "make money" for the sake of money.
Its a passion of the hobby.
I plan on selling my babies and intend on pricing for quality, shipping quality healthy worms, and making a good name for myself in doing so.
If things go wrong, well there's nothing to do but rectify it with the buyer.
And personally, I'd rather keep my customer happy and loyal than filthify my name.
Do what is right.
And all will be well.


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

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What is "right"? That's the point of the thread. What if something goes wrong? What would you do?

I also sold a ball that refused to eat FT. She would not switch no matter what and the guy she was sold to was not able to feed live. I traded her out for an even better one that would eat for him.

It's better to fix the situation with another animal if possible, but if that's not possible, offer a refund with the return of the snake, or a partial refund if they want to keep the animal and can work out the problem on their own.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Only once did I sell a mis-sexed ball and immediately offered a replacement. The customer instead opted for a better morph at a discount. Which I was happy to do. It was, and still is, a repeat customer :)

A breeder needs to take every precaution with every animal, and every sale. If a mistake is made and it is the breeders fault, they should definitely fix the issue.

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Ah, mis-sexing a snake, that's a good one. Again, maybe I wasn't clear :oops:. What would be a "fix" to some of the issues? What exactly is the right thing to do? Replace a snake? Money refund? Vet-bill coverages? What situation can be the buyer's fault? I know in retail you're told the customer is always right. Is this the case in ball python breeding?

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

I also sold a ball that refused to eat FT. She would not switch no matter what and the guy she was sold to was not able to feed live. I traded her out for an even better one that would eat for him.

It's better to fix the situation with another animal if possible, but if that's not possible, offer a refund with the return of the snake, or a partial refund if they want to keep the animal and can work out the problem on their own.

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This is more like it :gj:. Good response!

Here are my opinions for solutions do these problems:

Accidentally selling a ball with a barely noticeable kink?
If the kink was barely noticeable and was noticed by the buyer depending on where the kink was and their intentions with the animal. I would possibly offer a small compensation for the animal. About 10% of the price back, but then again it really depends and this is situational. If the both the buyer and seller don't notice it, then who really knows/cares lol.

Selling a ball that refuses to eat after a move?
First of all animals sold should at least have a few meals before being sent out to alleviate this non-feeding problem. Secondly I would ask to make sure that the husbandry is correct and the correct prey/prey size is being offered. Further suggestions would be given if necessary.

Selling a het that doesn't prove out? (sperm retention mistake*)
This is a problem that can happen but can be avoided with proper record keeper. With hets it is harder to be 100% sure especially if there are multiple sires. Could be possible though that this person is tremendously unlucky with their odds. Solutions for this can get complicated.

Shipping a ball that shows up dead, or not at all (shipping mishap?)
This is something that is dreaded with all people who buy and sell through shipping. Though not unheard of, it is up to the seller to help determine what went wrong with the shipment if properly packed. I believe its the sellers responsibility to find out what went wrong and if need be refund the price of the animal or work with the buyer to possibly send a replacement of equal or lesser value and refund the difference.

Selling a desert female to someone who plans to breed, but didn't do the research?
If I were in this situation I would make sure their intentions for the animal is not to breed. If the buyer wants to try and work breeding a desert female, by all means do so, but do it at their own risk.

Selling a sick snake (RI, mites, internal parasites, scalerot, etc..)
NEVER sell a sick snake!! Especially if the seller is aware of it. Its just had business. Though health guarantees are usually in place and most sellers are willing to work with you, it is difficult to tell where the illness came from. Its just bad business to sell a sick snake to begin with anyway.

The general consensus here is keeping the buyer well informed about the snake and not doing anything shady will keep people coming back for more and give you better rep as a seller. Again, though I have never sold a snake yet, I believe that this business is about integrity and having integrity will further grow the business and this community. Just my 2 cents.

PS: correct me if I'm wrong. Its getting late. :-p


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

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Originally Posted by h00blah

What is "right"? That's the point of the thread. What if something goes wrong? What would you do?

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Prevent it, hopefully
And if it did, fix it.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

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Originally Posted by sookieball

Prevent it, hopefully
And if it did, fix it.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

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Originally Posted by h00blah

I do realize that some of these can be avoided with strict quality control and buyer responsibility, but when these issues DO happen, what would you do to rectify the situation? You can quote this post, and enter your solution to the situations in a line beneath them :gj:.

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Accidentally selling a ball with a barely noticeable kink? Selling a sick snake (RI, mites, internal parasites, scalerot, etc..)

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That fall under the same category so I will respond both at the same time. You should obviously inspect your animal not only when they hatch but also prior to shipping, if you notice an issue when packaging the animal your customer should be advised immediately and a refund or exchange for another similar animal should be offered. Being pro-active and not shipping the animal is better than shipping it and have a dissatisfied customer that will have to return the snake before being able to get their money back.

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Selling a ball that refuses to eat after a move?

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Sadly you can NEVER guarantee that an animal will eat for his new owner, when I sell hatchlings I can guarantee that they eat for me, and will informed any potential customer if the animal is off feed (which generally occur in proven breeders). If the animal does not eat for is new owner I will try to guide the new owner the best I can (especially if the owner is inexperienced) but there is not much I can do asides from that.

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Selling a het that doesn't prove out? (sperm retention mistake*)

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While rare it can happen and if the owner does not produce any visual after 2 breeding season I would compensate my customer with a visual and allowed him/her to keep the animal purchased. Of course this would apply if the het is paired to a visual or if both hets that were paired were produced by me. If it is het x het and one of the het comes from someone else it would be slightly different.

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Shipping a ball that shows up dead, or not at all (shipping mishap?)

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Carrier mistake leading to DOA can happen, I had 2 packages lost this year but because the animal were packed properly the slight delay did not affect them. Make sure you learn to pack properly, use common sense and do not ship in extreme conditions, ship Monday through Wednesday, make sure the information are correct and that the customer will be home to open the package immediately upon arrival...etc. After following all that if the animal is DOA, DEMAND to be informed within 2 to 4 hours and DEMAND pictures to be provided. If the animal is indeed DOA issue a full refund or offer to ship another animal if the person has their eye set on something similar.

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Selling a desert female to someone who plans to breed, but didn't do the research?

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I believe buyers should research what they are buying it goes from car to houses to snakes. If someone has questions I will be more than happy to answer their questions or concerns (happens with Spiders all the time).

When it comes to Desert yes they make cool combos and males do not have any issues, however my dilemma is with females, and even if I were to sell a female as a PET and PET only I cannot guarantee that the customer will not decide to give breeding a try and therefore I chose not to work with this mutation.

If I was working with them I would make sure to have a disclaimer on my website regarding female Deserts and would have it linked to each available desert female.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

I don't think anyone should ever sell a sick or mite infested snake. Those are things anyone who isn't a flipper would notice beforehand.

As for arriving dead, this can be avoided by shipping and packing properly. I believe any other reason would be the carriers fault, or the person receiving it. Being lost or held up in shipment for days.. Or the person receiving it leaving it outside too long. Of course this can also be attributed to the carrier not getting a signature. If the shipment is set up correctly by the seller, designated overnight express with signature required, insuring the package, shipped only to a hub or business if using FedEx with your own certified account, or following the protocol listed by SYR when using them, these things can all be avoided and should never fall on the seller.

The other issues you speak of should be dealt with professionally.

Only once did I sell a mis-sexed ball and immediately offered a replacement. The customer instead opted for a better morph at a discount. Which I was happy to do. It was, and still is, a repeat customer :)

A breeder needs to take every precaution with every animal, and every sale. If a mistake is made and it is the breeders fault, they should definitely fix the issue.

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IMO, my customers are paying for a live snake. I won't ship if I can't guarantee live arrival (too hot, too cold, storm, holiday,address outside of 10:30am delivery area,ect). But that doesn't make a DOA impossible. And if it happens, I owe the buyer a refund or replacement, even if it's the carrier's mistake. If I don't want to have the risk of the refund coming out of my pocket due to carrier error, I use the SYR insurance. I 've read a few TOS that seem to void the live arrival guarantee in the event of a carrier error/delay, and that seems silly. If you are shipping a healthy animal, and you do everything right, the most likely cause of a DOA is some type of carrier error. I understand it probably isn't the seller's fault, but it's not the buyer's fault either, so why should it come out of their pocket?

Fedex can make mistakes. It isn't something we can prevent 100% no matter how hard we try. I don't want to go to far off topic, but I just want to add a caution about signature required. I don't ever use it, instead I have my customers contact me within a designated amount of time after delivery. Why? I've had packages sent to me signature required. I was sitting there waiting for the truck (I could see the driveway the whole time), 10:30am came and went, no package. Checked the tracking, and the driver had put a note that no one was available to sign. But in reality he never attempted delivery, just put that note in there to avoid it. I've had this happen more than once, fortunately not with anything living, so I don't have much faith in that service.

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Originally Posted by FireStorm

IMO, my customers are paying for a live snake. I won't ship if I can't guarantee live arrival (too hot, too cold, storm, holiday,address outside of 10:30am delivery area,ect). But that doesn't make a DOA impossible. And if it happens, I owe the buyer a refund or replacement, even if it's the carrier's mistake. If I don't want to have the risk of the refund coming out of my pocket due to carrier error, I use the SYR insurance. I 've read a few TOS that seem to void the live arrival guarantee in the event of a carrier error/delay, and that seems silly. If you are shipping a healthy animal, and you do everything right, the most likely cause of a DOA is some type of carrier error. I understand it probably isn't the seller's fault, but it's not the buyer's fault either, so why should it come out of their pocket?

Fedex can make mistakes. It isn't something we can prevent 100% no matter how hard we try. I don't want to go to far off topic, but I just want to add a caution about signature required. I don't ever use it, instead I have my customers contact me within a designated amount of time after delivery. Why? I've had packages sent to me signature required. I was sitting there waiting for the truck (I could see the driveway the whole time), 10:30am came and went, no package. Checked the tracking, and the driver had put a note that no one was available to sign. But in reality he never attempted delivery, just put that note in there to avoid it. I've had this happen more than once, fortunately not with anything living, so I don't have much faith in that service.

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I do agree with you, and believe me, I would not refuse some sort of compensation in the event of a DOA. I'm simply saying this is rare and should never happen. When shipping/packing properly, and following all the rules, in the end it's likely the carriers fault if there is a DOA. In that case, compensation should be made even though there would likely be a wait while the reason for the DOA is researched.

A good reason to use SYR in my opinion. Robyn and his team are good at researching these issues and getting something done about it.

Definitely get photos right away to prove the DOA. There have been scammers who claimed their animal died but would not provide proof.