Running out of options... 6 month battle with RI

Cliffs: Conventional treatment for this snake hasn't worked. Baytril, amikacin, and tylan 200 weren't effective. Options?

I'm running out of options with my granite's battle with a vicious RI.

My granite female began to snifflle a bit in late february. She was instantly quarantined, humidity was raised to 70%, temps went up from 88 to 92. A couple of weeks later she showed almost no signs of RI. Late march, on feeding day, I was debating returning her to the female rack but when I got to her tub to feed her she was not in good condition. She was in midshed, deep in blue. I must have ticked her off and she hissed, blowing mucus and sounding horrible. It sounded like someone with a mouthful of mayo trying to yell at the sky.

I made her a vet appointment as soon as possible which was in early april. I spent the next week freaking out that I was going to wake up to a dead snake, but her symptoms all but disappeared up until the day of the vet appointment. The vet said she looked great, better than most snakes he ses in his office. She barely made a peep as far as noise was concerned and he said he'd most likely keep her for a week and run baytril as alot of the snakes he'd seen lately had turned out to have bacteria infections vunerable to baytril.

I called to check up on her a week later and was told he'd switched to amikacin, as she still had a bit of a sniffle after the baytril, and he'd call back with any significant changes. I couldn't get ahold of the vet for a bit after that but recieved a call a week later saying she'd most likely come home in another week because he switched to a higher dose of baytril. That put her at the vet for a grand total of a lil over a month.

While she was at the vet my male cinnamon developed a sniffle( he was still in the quarantine room and had been there even before the granite became ill). I decided to nebulize tylan 200, versus take him to the vet, since the granite's RI seemed resistant to amikacin and baytril. Two weeks later the cinnamon was clear of symptoms but remained in QT.

I went to pick her up late-may, she looked great but still had a bit of a sniffle. The vet said to give her warm baths for the next week or so to help her move the last bits of congestion out and she'd be fine. I was skeptical but agreed.

I got her home and put her back in the QT room. I moved to cinnamon to a seperate room before bringing the granite home for safety. I continued to follow the vets advice for 2 weeks. I gave warm baths once a day, kept her humidity at 70% and her temp elevated to 92. She still had a sniffle and I could still feel congestion in her chest. I decided to pursue the same route that I had taken with the cinnamon (who was still symptom free at this point in freaking june) since it worked for him and nebulize tylan.

A month later, July, the cinnamon was still symptom free.... my granite still had this god forsaken RI, after amikacin, baytril, and tylan 200. I decided to switch up my tactics and see if lowering the humidity would help. Two weeks later after symptoms began to fade they showed right back up. I gave up and resumed elevated humidty at 70% ..and an odd shed happened. The skin between her eyes an nostrils shed before the rest of her skin and contained pigment....her skin under her jaw looked odd. Her skin was breaking down. After watching her I found she had found a place in her tub where she was wedging her head and attempting to escape. She was in one of those purple latching 32 qt tubs from target, they have 2 places on either side of the handle where small rounded corners poke out. She had abraded her own jaw and forehead. I became vigilant at preventing this from becoming infected and dropped the humidity back to 50%. I cut to corners off and melted the areas down to smooth them.

So now I sit here, cinnamon cleared QT and the granite is still there. She's about to go into shed and her forehead looks like it got worse. The skin is not infected but isn't healing as fast as I'd hoped. The RI is just as bad as when i first noticed it. She's not mouth breathing, she doesn't blow bubbles, her mouth has clear mucus when opened, and I can feel congestion in her chest when handling her. I'm out of options and six months of QT procedures and sterilizing procedures are becoming tedious. I think my only option is to get a culture but the only herp vet here is the one she's already been to. I'm not sure I have faith that the culture and treatment can be done while making sure I'm posted on progress how I would like to be and her forehead/jaw injury can be keep uninfected so it can heal. Thoughts? lol

I'm afraid the only advice I have is to get a new vet. Unless I misread, nowhere in your thread did the vet run a swab culture to know what kind of bacteria he/she was treating for, which means all the antibiotics and "treatments" were just guesses, not medically backed, while you paid for boarding to boot. Best of luck to you.

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Originally Posted by Annarose15

I'm afraid the only advice I have is to get a new vet. Unless I misread, nowhere in your thread did the vet run a swab culture to know what kind of bacteria he/she was treating for, which means all the antibiotics and "treatments" were just guesses, not medically backed, while you paid for boarding to boot. Best of luck to you.

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A culture wasn't ran. This guy is the top vet locally imo. It's just disappointing he sent me home with a snake that was still sick with new scars. He did tell me that he'd never had to give a dose of baytril that high( the second baytril round). I was left under the impression that this infection had surpassed his level of experience/skill.

What kind of bug would baytril, tylan, and amikacin not knock out?

And, while i'm extremely grateful, what kind of bp has an RI for 6 months and hasn't died?

I feel your pain. I recently went through a similar bout with RI's and my vet is not a reptile vet.however he is the only exotic vet within a couple hours drive. DVM Dale Covy Dover, Ohio. I give you that name incase there are any questions about what I'm about to say. Ask your vet about convenia. It is a long lasting antibiotic for bacterial infections developed for dogs and cats. However he saw it fit for reptiles and other animals. My worst case required only 2 injections 6 weeks apart and correct husbandry to make a full recovery. And the 2nd shot was just to ensure that he was 100% because the vet thought he still heard a slight rasp in him. I've used baytril years ago and thought it to be stressful to the animals and tylan 200 didn't help me at all when I tried to self Medicare them. Convenia really turned it around for my collection. I also kept all ill snakes in quarinetine. And only newspaper substrate and complete tub and water dish swap out daily until all animals were cleared by my vet. It has been a couple months now and all are doing great.

I only have one response here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJCnP...ature=youtu.be

Watch the video and if there are any further questions feel free to PM me and I will get back to you as soon as I can.
BTW drop the humidity and dry her out slowly.:gj:

I've seen the vid before, and while helpful I think this is beyond the scope of that video

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To h.o.F.R., as far as the Convenia is concerned, do you have any info as to dosages your vet used? A quick search and skim makes it even look kinda risky to cats. Sounds like it'd be lethal at the wrong dosage. Any info I could pass along to my vet?

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Originally Posted by RaltsXIV

I've seen the vid before, and while helpful I think this is beyond the scope of that video

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Funny thing is its your snake and not mine, you posted asking what else to do and my sons problem red tail is all good.;)

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Funny thing is its your snake and not mine, you posted asking what else to do and my sons problem red tail is all good.;)

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Lol, at this point I may as well give it a shot.

Get a culture. Even a non-specialist can send a sample in to an outside lab for culture. Stop guessing at treatments until you know WHAT you are trying to treat. For all you know, it isn't even bacterial. Even better, find an actual specialized reptile vet to examine and get the culture. A few hours drive would have likely cost you less than multiple rounds of the wrong medicine and weeks of boarding.

As for the convenia dosage without contacting him all I can go by is the invoice. He gave my 1100g male .50 ml and my 600 g boy .35 ml. And can't find the invoice for the others. But I'm sure if your vet contacts him he would be happy to share any info he has. He isn't a reptile specialist but is herp friendly and sees many in my area. But I have to agree with the others you need a new vet. Even my vet ran coultures to make sure he was giving the right meds. Most of the time it is bacterial and that's what we treated for while we waited for the lab results.

Culture.

All the way.

There are myriad causes for URI's - some viral some fungal and some bacterial.


dr del

Argh.... Time to search the surrounding five hundred mile radius for a new vet. Starting to notice a bp.net trend lol

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Originally Posted by Annarose15

Get a culture. Even a non-specialist can send a sample in to an outside lab for culture. Stop guessing at treatments until you know WHAT you are trying to treat. For all you know, it isn't even bacterial. Even better, find an actual specialized reptile vet to examine and get the culture. A few hours drive would have likely cost you less than multiple rounds of the wrong medicine and weeks of boarding.

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Well, ive attempted to find the best care locally and found THE herp vet locally and was left in the situation I started in. Now I need a new vet.
Youre close enough, who do you use in georgia?

Hi,

I'm not sure of your location but this is in our recommended vets list;

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TENNESSEE

Nashville

Airport Animal Clinic
Dr. Mike Corwin
215 Pineway Dr., Nashville, TN 37217
(615) 367-9319

He treats all exotics, furry and scaly (including fish). No venomous though ~Cheryl (replver)~

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Does that help?


dr del

Many breeders will ship their sick snakes to Dr. Scott Stahl, the leading herp vet in the country. You can also ask your vet to consult with him as well.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

. This experience has me a little hesitant as my last vet came recommended locally by other bp keepers. A list of vets online seems less credible. Im honestly not trying to be difficult I just want the best for my girl.

No vets even made their presense known at the nashville repticon at the beginning of this month, as that was a big reason I went.. Tennessees first real in state show. What kind of vet who specializes in herps doesnt attend the first herp show in their own state..or better yet their own town? If annarose has a good herp vet id be more willing to driven down there versus to nashville. Unless someone can personally vouch for the nashville vet.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Many breeders will ship their sick snakes to Dr. Scott Stahl, the leading herp vet in the country. You can also ask your vet to consult with him as well.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

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That sounds like a fantastic idea. Ill have to look into that quick before the weather gets cool. Thanks!

You could try contacting the closest veterinary college to see if they have a herpetology specialist who would be willing to see you. Best of luck to you and your granite!

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Funny thing is its your snake and not mine, you posted asking what else to do and my sons problem red tail is all good.;)

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Officially owing Pit an apology! This RI has been kicked! To believe I could have saved a few hundred bucks and spared my girl a dozen scar leaving injections if I had only tried f10 from the jump.

I ended up injured and out of work for a while so I had plenty of free time. I set her QT. tub on my bedside table and got to work!

It took a 1:250 diluted solution, nebulized for twenty minutes, three times a day for about two weeks but all that's left now is to get her back eating her regular sized meals!

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So even though nebulizing f10 may sound like, at least to myself at first, just some piece of info bounced around the net, with persistent, methodical treatment it managed to kick a very advanced RI in a couple weeks.

Its all good.
I was sceptical at first too but I dont recommend anything I havent tried first hand:gj:

That is good to hear. I am going to have to try it. I have one with an RI just starting