odd.. some questions..

yesterday I bought a spider ball python and I have some questions:
I know it's long but please please please read and give me your replies.
1. Does this seem odd?

When I went to look at the spider ball I bought yesterday, the guy told me that he doesn't use any substrate and that he puts the UTH under the tank. He wouldn't let me see the tank "because the dogs were in the room with the snakes". His other snake tanks had no substrate either and he had a burmese... no hide.. no heater... no soaking bowl... in a tank I thought was only big enough for a full sized BP. Granted, this burmese was only 5 feet long, but still. The spider I chose felt very cold and looks thin, and probably dehydrated when I held him, so I'm assuming that he was in the same boat as the burmese. He said he's had these snakes since they were hatchlings, sooo my question is.. this is wrong right? is it possible that he's kept these guys alive in these conditions since hatchlings?... None of them appeared to have mites and no signs of an RI in any of them. I went ahead and paid $100 for the spider and brought him home, which again seems odd since I've seen them sold between $400-$500, sometimes more. I had someone else that has morphs look at him right after and they said he is definitely a spider.

The enclosure I now have him in is an under the bed storage unit with ventilation holes all over the top, a UTH, and paper towel for substrate. I don't have a heat lamp because the UTH seems to do great on it's own and I don't feel the need to bake the guy with a light too, but please, correct me if i'm wrong.
Humidity- 70%
Cool side-fluctuating between 70-75 degrees
warm side-fluctuating around 90 degrees
I have his water bowl on the cool side and his hide on top of the UTH. I put my hand on the heating pad and it isn't hot, just warm, nothing that could burn him. (he will not go in it and it is big enough for him to curl up into. I've tried moving it off the UTH for a few hours, he doesn't want to go in it. I've moved it to the cool side, nope, still doesn't want to go in.) I understand he could be stressed, but he moves around his enclosure when he gets his dark time, but curls up in a corner when I put the enclosure out in the light of the room.

2. Feeding...? I don't know what to do...

The guy I bought him from said that he last ate 15 days ago right after his shed.. keep in mind that this snake is thin already. maybe it's just me, but why would he sell the snake to me hungry?.. because now I'm in a stuck spot. i have always waited a week after bringing a snake home before feeding, but this guy is thin already and hasn't eaten for 15 days. plus he is a young age and still growing, and I always fed my juveniles once a week. the person with morphs that I had look at him said that I should definitely feed him by today because he is thin and hasn't eaten in over 2 weeks now. what should i do? Also, the guy that I bought him from feeds him pre-killed and I am so so sorry but i cannot knock a mouse out. i just cannot. I have always fed live.. but everyone at pet shops keeps nagging at me that it takes off 10 years of their life and they can be harmed, but i never ever leave a snake unwatched with live prey. what do you guys think? frozen or live for this guy?

1: your cool side is too cold. It needs to be 80-82 degrees. Some say even 78 degrees, but I wouldn't go any lower than that. Your hot side sounds good.

YOU NEED A THERMOSTAT FOR YOUR UTH!!!!

This is a must have, not a luxury.

2: feeding your snakes live does not shorten their life span. I have never heard of that before. Try feeding him, if he eats, great! If not, wait a week and try again. No harm, no foul.

I would like to see pics of your new snake.

Wow...lots to address here. I'll try to be quick and brief because my time is short, but thorough as well...

1. Sounds like you got that snake from a horrible place. Good deal or no, I wouldn't have given someone like that my money...all it does is reinforce their bad business/husbandry practices.

2. I'd be very concerned about the overall health of an animal from a place like that. He may be harboring all sorts of nasties...from mites to parasites to any manner of germs. Make sure you keep him VERY WELL quarantined away from the rest of your animals...different room, different handling/husbandry supplies....never, ever share supplies or rodents with the other animals. Watch for signs of mites, signs of RI, and seriously consider a thorough checkup from a good vet.

3. Your cool side temps are too low...especially for a ball python who is at such risk for health problems. Aim for something closer to 80 on your cool side....definitely nothing below 75. 90 is good for the warm side, BUT...is that the temperature of the surface? Or the air? Our hands are NOT accurate ways to measure a heated surface. And what if he goes under the paper towels? They like to do that, and would be directly against the heat pad. What are you using to measure that surface temp? And what are you using to control the max temps on the heat pad? Both critical questions.

4. Nothing wrong with live feeding, so long as it is done carefully and correctly. Do what works for you and for your snakes. The dangers in live feeding come primarily from tossing in freaked out, hungry, thirsty rodents and then leaving them unattended for some stretch of time. Don't do that. Make sure your rodents are well fed and watered before feeding them off...and don't do anything unnecessarily rough before putting them into the tub...and don't leave them in there if the snakes don't show interest in eating right away.

Hope this helps some....you've got your work cut out for you on this one. Good luck!

Go live first of all and try and feed ASAP but don't be too alarmed if he doesn't eat.
Secondly, some folks heat the whole room and don't use belly heat. It is summer time and that is fairly easy to do at moment. No matter what the ball is going to feel cool to your touch. The subsadrate part well that's not something I would do.. I use aspen bc I find it much easier to spot clean.
Some of the things you said It I guess depends on the whole set up of the room, etc. without knowing any if that can't really say its off or not.
The price of him really isn't bad. It's a male spider and ive seen them at shows for inbetween 75-150.00 for youngins. The price goes up when weight goes up.
Him not eating in 15 days could be a sign that he's a picky eater. I would go with a smaller than normal live prey. He won't starve even though he hasn't eaten in a couple of weeks. I've seen neonate hatchlings go for 1.5 month without eating anything after hatching. It's not what I like to see but these guys can handle alot. Your set up sounds great and I would seriously keep him in the dark for a week before you try and feed. At least for a few days. We don't want to make him refuse and keep refusing by hovering and offering before hes ready. Let him settle and then offer. Well go from there. Pics too wth!



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All of the above X2. Cold side is too cold, and you must have a thermostat on your heat pad, or else your snake could get terribly burned. I would go ahead and try to feed him. You may need to start with live or p/k until he settles in. Let's see some pictures of him. :)

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http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...=1#post1898651
i have pictures of him on this thread! i will take more here in a minute(: enjoy!

I run a small fan/heater to help the ambient air outside my tubs. Which usually is around 77-80f. My wife hates it. Oh well.

All the above comments are very useful.

It's sad the guy isn't taking care of these animals correctly. He prob. didn't want you to see the other snakes, cause of their conditions, and lack of care.

Please continue updating us on the conditions of your spider.

http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/...7/7c2b22f2.jpg
http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/...7/b851a0cc.jpg
http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/...7/38f678a9.jpg

good size. :-)

the pictures make him look bigger than he is(: but thank you. he is beautiful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JLC

Wow...lots to address here. I'll try to be quick and brief because my time is short, but thorough as well...

1. Sounds like you got that snake from a horrible place. Good deal or no, I wouldn't have given someone like that my money...all it does is reinforce their bad business/husbandry practices.
he wasn't a breeder. he was just looking to get rid of his snakes because he had an autistic son that handled them too roughly. but i understand where you are coming from and i would have taken them all home if i could have. if i wanted to report him, how would i do that?

2. I'd be very concerned about the overall health of an animal from a place like that. He may be harboring all sorts of nasties...from mites to parasites to any manner of germs. Make sure you keep him VERY WELL quarantined away from the rest of your animals...different room, different handling/husbandry supplies....never, ever share supplies or rodents with the other animals. Watch for signs of mites, signs of RI, and seriously consider a thorough checkup from a good vet.
he definitely doesn't have an RI or mites. i am definitely going to try and get him into the vet this week. i sent the exotic vet an email with all of what i wrote in this post before i posted it. i just wanted some other BP owner's feedback.

3. Your cool side temps are too low...especially for a ball python who is at such risk for health problems. Aim for something closer to 80 on your cool side....definitely nothing below 75. 90 is good for the warm side, BUT...is that the temperature of the surface? Or the air? Our hands are NOT accurate ways to measure a heated surface. And what if he goes under the paper towels? They like to do that, and would be directly against the heat pad. What are you using to measure that surface temp? And what are you using to control the max temps on the heat pad? Both critical questions.
okay. phew didn't know that. i got the cool side up to 80, so that's good! i have the therm. on the side of the enclosure so i'm guessing that's the temp of the surface then right? how would i measure the air temps if it's attached to the wall?.. i have a thermometer strip thing on the plastic underneath the paper and it reads 93 degrees. is that bad? it hasn't gone about 94 and i have been checking on it every 2 hours. i've never had a problem with paper towel, but i will definitely do more research. my vet that i've used for my other snakes said paper is okay, but i'll ask around.

4. Nothing wrong with live feeding, so long as it is done carefully and correctly. Do what works for you and for your snakes. The dangers in live feeding come primarily from tossing in freaked out, hungry, thirsty rodents and then leaving them unattended for some stretch of time. Don't do that. Make sure your rodents are well fed and watered before feeding them off...and don't do anything unnecessarily rough before putting them into the tub...and don't leave them in there if the snakes don't show interest in eating right away.
okay cool. thanks!

Hope this helps some....you've got your work cut out for you on this one. Good luck!

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thank you for your thorough reply! i answered the questions with bold under your questions(:

Nice looking spider. He doesn't look thin to me. He has good body condition based on the photos.

I agree with everyone else who posted.

I'll just emphasize on the thermostat. You need to get one asap. A heating pad can reach up to 130+ degrees when unregulated. That's hot enough to cook your snake. A thermostat regulates the pad and keeps it at a steady set temp.

And ball pythons don't need soaking bowls. Small water dishes are fine. It's not normal for a ball to soak unless there are other issues abound. (aka skin problems, mites, or too hot of a temp)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by satomi325

Nice looking spider. He doesn't look thin to me. He has good body condition based on the photos.

I agree with everyone else who posted.

I'll just emphasize on the thermostat. You need to get one asap. A heating pad can reach up to 130+ degrees when unregulated. That's hot enough to cook your snake. A thermostat regulates the pad and keeps it at a steady set temp.

And ball pythons don't need soaking bowls. Small water dishes are fine. It's not normal for a ball to soak unless there are other issues abound. (aka skin problems, mites, or too hot of a temp)

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the pictures are misleading. his backbone is pretty prominent.

- - - Updated - - -

first of all i want to thank you for everyone's input! i am going to get a thermostat. no worries:) i got the temp up to 80 degrees on the cool side and it is 91 degrees on the warm side right now. i talked with a few people and they said paper towel is fine as long as i have a thermostat. he ate the adult mouse i offered him within 30 seconds of it being in there! and then he was cruising around his enclosure, and finally chilled out in the corner, so he's a happy guy now :)

another thing the guy told me is that he's a really picky eater that's why he doesn't "waste his time" offering every 5-7 days. but he took the mouse no problem about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aimeejmpr

the pictures are misleading. his backbone is pretty prominent.

- - - Updated - - -

first of all i want to thank you for everyone's input! i am going to get a thermostat. no worries:) i got the temp up to 80 degrees on the cool side and it is 91 degrees on the warm side right now. i talked with a few people and they said paper towel is fine as long as i have a thermostat. he ate the adult mouse i offered him within 30 seconds of it being in there! and then he was cruising around his enclosure, and finally chilled out in the corner, so he's a happy guy now :)

another thing the guy told me is that he's a really picky eater that's why he doesn't "waste his time" offering every 5-7 days. but he took the mouse no problem about it.

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He's a little thin, but not on death's doorstep by any means. Judy's point about the paper towels was that he can get under any substrate and be closer to the heat, so you need to measure the temp of the plastic directly above the UTH, not on the wall beside it, for the hot spot. You can get an infrared temp gun or a digital Acurite indoor/outdoor thermometer with probe (Walmart $12) to do this.