Reptile show let down.

I went to a couple shows in tulsa and okc last saturday. I didn't expect them to be very big, but was hoping they had what I needed. It turns out that they didn't have what I wanted, but that's not why it was a let down. (didn't really think they'd have them anyways) I was wanting a male blizzard corn snake and a female charcoal corn snake. I found one vendor that looked promising, I asked about a few of the snakes and she said they were granite. I didn't know what genes were in a granite, so I asked if she did. She had to call her husband and he told her it was charcoal and dilute. I was very close to buying one but I had to make sure they had those genes. I looked it up and granite was in fact anery and diffused, not charcoal and dilute. My point is, I now have trouble trusting the vendors. I wanted to tell her off a little bit, or at least correct her. Somebody probably bought a few of those "charcoals". Do you guys trust all the vendors at your shows? I guess I expected a lot smarter and trustworthy vendors.

The more shows you go to, the more people you converse with, the more everything you have with reptiles the more you begin to know who to trust and who to be a bit weary of. It will come with time. Don't let this one incident turn you off from all vendors, many of them spend weeks preparing for these things non-stop and are incredibly knowledgeable about their animals. Some of my favorite times of the year are going to reptile shows and talking with the vendors about their creatures, picking their brains and such. I love me the smell of a reptile show in the mornin'. :gj:

I mean, all she had were leos and a few corns. It shouldn't be that hard to know the genetics. Next year when I breed and buy a table at a show, I'm gonna know almost everything that someone could ask about my animals. Oklahoma shows are small, and quite frankly none of the tables looked real professional.

it happens, i went to the LI show and ended up spending 2 hours talking to one vendor. we talked about projects, and what i was planning on breeding and what i wanted to produce in the future. and he was the one who told me to save up more money and get a killer bee copared to a bumble bee to breed to my pastel lesser for my killer queen bees. he said having a 3 gene(super pastel+ spider) male will also help a lot in the long run. and sure enough i didnt even know he was going to be at the white plains and he picked me out of the crowd and was like "hey tom" and i went over said hi, and he showed me the out come of some of the pairing he was telling me about. Some vendors are in it for the quick sale, other are more about meeting people and talking and if you buy an animal from them thats great.
the vendor who is willing to talk to you and just talk, instead of trying to sell you something is the kind of vendor/breeder i would like to be, and if you buy something hey then were both happy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew21

I mean, all she had were leos and a few corns. It shouldn't be that hard to know the genetics. Next year when I breed and buy a table at a show, I'm gonna know almost everything that someone could ask about my animals. Oklahoma shows are small, and quite frankly none of the tables looked real professional.

---

It's Oklahoma. What do you expect, Daytona? Not going to happen.

http://www.corncalc.com/combos.jsp I would say that it'd be fairly hard to remember all those, admittedly, as breeders they should know what they're selling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1nstinct

it happens, i went to the LI show and ended up spending 2 hours talking to one vendor. we talked about projects, and what i was planning on breeding and what i wanted to produce in the future. and he was the one who told me to save up more money and get a killer bee copared to a bumble bee to breed to my pastel lesser for my killer queen bees. he said having a 3 gene(super pastel+ spider) male will also help a lot in the long run. and sure enough i didnt even know he was going to be at the white plains and he picked me out of the crowd and was like "hey tom" and i went over said hi, and he showed me the out come of some of the pairing he was telling me about. Some vendors are in it for the quick sale, other are more about meeting people and talking and if you buy an animal from them thats great.
the vendor who is willing to talk to you and just talk, instead of trying to sell you something is the kind of vendor/breeder i would like to be, and if you buy something hey then were both happy.

---

Just curious, which vendor?

I too do the same thing lol. I feel like im hindering their selling sometimes by hogging them but ive helped sell some snakes too probably by convincing people to buy from them bc theyre a good breeder. It probably balances out haha. Half the fun is going and talking to people!

OP i suggest finding a breeder you can trust, not all are of the same quality. Same way not all snakes are the same quality.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raptor

It's Oklahoma. What do you expect, Daytona? Not going to happen.

http://www.corncalc.com/combos.jsp I would say that it'd be fairly hard to remember all those, admittedly, as breeders they should know what they're selling.

---

I realize that all those morphs would get confusing, but she only had anerys, granites, amels, and stripes. I don't think that'd be to hard to remember.

Having bred corns for years, even I get confused sometimes but I think it's important to know what your own stock is. I would have had to look up granite but I can tell you what's in every last snake I own, right down to hets. That goes for the babies as well. Like others have said, some vendors are great and others, not so much. Find good breeders to connect with and build your network from there. Also, a rule that I always follow is when I go to a show for something specific, I research it if I don't already know about it. That way, not only can I identify the animal I want but whether or not the vendor is knowledgeable. Granted I know what I like when I see it but when it comes to breeding stock, I need to know if the genetics that animal is carrying are what they are stating. Unfortunately with hets in corns, you're going to have to put a little faith in the breeder.

My first two corns were a normal girl (het for amel and anery) and then a blizzard (charcoal/amel) boy. The breeder of the girl told me exactly what she carried. My boy's breeder said she was amel, anery, and 'patternless'. Thought I'd be getting snows until I talked to some who knew what they were doing and we figured out that Flurry is either a blizzard or a whiteout (charcoal/amel/diffused). Either way, you live and learn. I learned not to go back to that particular breeder and have since met many great breeders who've helped along the way. If you're one of those who can talk knowledgeably about your animals and are willing to take the time with people, you'll have a larger network, better reputation, and more customers. That's what it comes down to and from what you've posted, it looks like you're well on your way to that. :)

I'm realy young to be vending my own table, so I'm just hoping that when people see how knowledgable I am about the animals I sell, they'll see me a little bit more professional. And there were other snakes on my list, and ironically enough, charcoals were they only ones that I didn't know what the hatchling form looked like. The ok shows are so small that there really aren't any big time breeders to get connected with. Which i guess isn't neccesarily bad. It might turn out to be like a little community of small time breeders sharing their knowledge. I can't wait to vend a table next year!

A lack of knowledge by a vendor COULD work to your advantage if you know your stuff! They COULD be selling some rare/pricey genetics without knowing it! Not all vendors are the breeder of the animals they are selling. I have seen it happen! My wife got her Tiger Fire something or other beardies (sorry I don't know beardies genetics) from a vendor who was just trying to move them because he got them as part of a trade. My wife got the 2 of them for $30 ($15 each)! Apparently these particular beardies could be worth $150+ each!

Yeah, anery's go for like $25, and they were selling the granites for 30. (if they were in fact granites, they should've been 75) That's like 2 genes for the price of one! too bad it wasn't on my list. Maybe i'll find someone selling a whiteout as a snow. :rolleyes: (snows are 25, whiteouts are probably a hundred. I haven't ever seen one for sale)

I got my charcoal for $100, but she was also an adult and a proven breeder. This was back in 2009, though.

Yeah, they cost a lot more as adults!

And females tend to go for more since you can drop a male in with multiple females.

My boyfriend and I went to the Kansas City Reptile show this past time looking to buy some very specific types of ball pythons to start our breeding collection. One of the types we were looking for was a pair of Het Pieds to be able to breed some pieds. We found a table with some female het pieds in our price range and started talking to breeder that told me that buying two het pieds would not produce a pied, that we needed a full pied to breed with a het pied to produce pieds. We talked at lengths about this, saying that we thought pied was just a recessive gene and there was nothing complicated about the gene. He was very passionate in telling me that there were more complicated genetics involved and pied was the only one of the recessive genes that was.

Now, Mike and I have done some really extensive research in ball python morphs before we went to the show, so we had a good idea on what we wanted and what they would produce when breed together. As far as our research has produced, piedbald is a simple recessive gene and breeding two hets together will give us about a 1:4 ratio of pieds to normals (some of which will be het for pied). I have a bachelor's degree in a science related field, so have had some college level genetics classes. Genetics is not that difficult when looking at one gene.

Now if there is something more complicated about pied gene that is not mentioned in the morphs pages, I would really be interested in learning about it.

We ended up getting a male mojave, two normal females, and a male blood python to breed with the female blood (eventually).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raptor

It's Oklahoma. What do you expect, Daytona? Not going to happen.

http://www.corncalc.com/combos.jsp I would say that it'd be fairly hard to remember all those, admittedly, as breeders they should know what they're selling.

---

Have to agree I lived in Oklahoma for 2 years... Nothin there but cows, dirt, and brick town.

I agree with what someone else said about lack of knowledge on their part possibly being to your advantage. :) That show was pretty disappointing though. It was a lot of the same stuff over and over. And supplies that can be bought at any big box store. The big table at the front that the KC breeder had was pretty cool. And there was a girl there with a ton of healthy looking Leos that seemed pretty passionate and knowledgeable about them. She took a few out and got to handle them and I'll say, I'm kinda hooked now. :rolleyes: Thinking about getting one from her next time there's a show. Did you hear about the 8 foot yellow conda getting stolen there? Seriously, who walks out of a one door room packed with people carrying an 8 foot snake? Or even in a container large enough without being noticed? :weirdface

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LadyWraith

Did you hear about the 8 foot yellow conda getting stolen there? Seriously, who walks out of a one door room packed with people carrying an 8 foot snake? Or even in a container large enough without being noticed? :weirdface

---

How? WTF? How does someone walk out with an 8 foot snake and no one notices? The only think that I could say is that everyone thought that either the person bought the snake or that it was their own snake. I went to Tulsa show a few years ago. I bought my Dumerils boa there. I really wasn't impressed. I don't know if it has gotten any better.

The yellow anaconda was stolen sometime during the evening when the show was already closed and all vendors were gone. The doors should of been locked, and I believe they usually are.. Not sure how the person got in there. Along with the anaconda, a red footed tortoise, and quite a bit of other smaller snakes were stolen. It's a shame..

I went to the Tulsa show, too! At the Tulsa Select Hotel (August 4-5)?
I looked up all of the vendors that I knew were going to be there, and found out which types of reptiles they sold (I was looking specifically for a BP), and read reviews about them, so before I even went I knew who I wanted to buy from.
I can believe that some of the vendors had no idea what they were doing. You always get a few of those. :) Hope you find your blizzard and charcoal.

Thanks! I ended up ordering them from a breeder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gaiaeagle

My boyfriend and I went to the Kansas City Reptile show this past time looking to buy some very specific types of ball pythons to start our breeding collection. One of the types we were looking for was a pair of Het Pieds to be able to breed some pieds. We found a table with some female het pieds in our price range and started talking to breeder that told me that buying two het pieds would not produce a pied, that we needed a full pied to breed with a het pied to produce pieds. We talked at lengths about this, saying that we thought pied was just a recessive gene and there was nothing complicated about the gene. He was very passionate in telling me that there were more complicated genetics involved and pied was the only one of the recessive genes that was.

Now, Mike and I have done some really extensive research in ball python morphs before we went to the show, so we had a good idea on what we wanted and what they would produce when breed together. As far as our research has produced, piedbald is a simple recessive gene and breeding two hets together will give us about a 1:4 ratio of pieds to normals (some of which will be het for pied). I have a bachelor's degree in a science related field, so have had some college level genetics classes. Genetics is not that difficult when looking at one gene.

Now if there is something more complicated about pied gene that is not mentioned in the morphs pages, I would really be interested in learning about it.

We ended up getting a male mojave, two normal females, and a male blood python to breed with the female blood (eventually).

---

I have heard (and experienced) a lot of het. Pieds that just don't eat very well. I was told by a bigger BC breeder that he only breeds hets to visuals, and it seems to alleviate the bad appetite problem. Wish I knew that BEFORE we got our pair of het. Pieds, because our female has just hit the wall and absolutely refuses to eat anything. Except the other day, after about 4 months we got her to eat a fresh killed rat that I had scented with dirty mouse bedding.

But he was flat out wrong still, het. to het. SHOULD produce a pied, though there's no guarantees. You have to realize that the percentage is PER EGG not per clutch, so each egg only having a 25% chance of hatching out a pied is not great. I bred a het. Albino to a Spider het. Albino and got ZERO albinos. I trust the source I got the female from and I have no doubt she's NOT het. Albino, but time will tell. If she proves out next year, then we simply got bad odds.