Giant Python ban?

I've been reading through the Giant Python section, and have heard a little about a ban.
I'm new to snake keeping (just got my first Ball Python), but I was hoping somewhere down the road I would be lucky enough to keep or be around Burmese Pythons.
Could someone explain the ban to me? Like, no large pythons at all? Or do you have to get a permit, or something?
I've heard of the Lacey Act, where they can't cross state lines.

Google the Lacy Act. It was expanded this year to prohibit the transportation of Burmese Pythons (along with some other large snakes) across state lines.

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Originally Posted by Don

Google the Lacy Act. It was expanded this year to prohibit the transportation of Burmese Pythons (along with some other large snakes) across state lines.

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Why were Burmese Pythons banned, and not retics? That's ridiculous.
*sigh. Very sad. I wish they had just made it harder for irresponsible people to own large snakes.

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Originally Posted by Arcapello

Why were Burmese Pythons banned, and not retics? That's ridiculous.
*sigh. Very sad. I wish they had just made it harder for irresponsible people to own large snakes.

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Because there is a population of Burmese Pythons in the everglades. This is why they were able to pass it. If there was a breeding population of Retics out there, they would have also been banned. Count yourself lucky, the people who push these bans also had boa constrictors and, I believe, ball pythons on the list. They've got their foot in the door, so expect them to come back and push for bans on other species in the future.

The ban makes it illegal to import the listed snakes (burms, anacondas, rock pythons) into the US. It also makes it illegal to cross state lines with one of those snakes. Which is just plain stupid, because now when someone moves out of Florida, they can't bring their Burmese with them, so they are forced to break the law, give it away, kill it, or release it...which is what the problem was in the first place. Although most people state that the burms in the everglades are there because they were released as pets...I'm now hearing that there is good evidence pointing towards a breeding facility that was destroyed in a hurricane as the reason they ended up there.

You can legally have a burmese python as long as you purchase it in the state you live in, and don't transport it across state lines.

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Originally Posted by johnmauser

Because there is a population of Burmese Pythons in the everglades. This is why they were able to pass it. If there was a breeding population of Retics out there, they would have also been banned. Count yourself lucky, the people who push these bans also had boa constrictors and, I believe, ball pythons on the list. They've got their foot in the door, so expect them to come back and push for bans on other species in the future.

The ban makes it illegal to import the listed snakes (burms, anacondas, rock pythons) into the US. It also makes it illegal to cross state lines with one of those snakes. Which is just plain stupid, because now when someone moves out of Florida, they can't bring their Burmese with them, so they are forced to break the law, give it away, kill it, or release it...which is what the problem was in the first place. Although most people state that the burms in the everglades are there because they were released as pets...I'm now hearing that there is good evidence pointing towards a breeding facility that was destroyed in a hurricane as the reason they ended up there.

You can legally have a burmese python as long as you purchase it in the state you live in, and don't transport it across state lines.

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Wow, ball pythons? I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people who would be angry about that. Myself included.
And the way I understand it, the breeding facility that was destroyed in the hurricane let a lot of Burms out, but there were a few people who released pets- the pet burms weren't what started the problem, though. They just added to it (mildly).
I don't understand why some people can't just appreciate snakes. I do realize that the everglades are a huge problem, but, let's face it, Florida has a LOT of invasive species. Bull sharks (who can live in salt water or fresh water) have gotten into the canals, there are iguanas (If I heard correctly), and quite a few other exotic animals.
Anyways, sorry for turning this into a debate/conversation. I just like to hear other peoples views.

There are exotic iguanas, geckos, anoles, chameleons, etc, and all types of tropical fw fish living in southern florida. All of this stuff could be potential future banned species if we aren't pro-active about it.

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Originally Posted by johnmauser

There are exotic iguanas, geckos, anoles, chameleons, etc, and all types of tropical fw fish living in southern florida. All of this stuff could be potential future banned species if we aren't pro-active about it.

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Wow. Are there people who are trying to get the ban removed?

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Originally Posted by Arcapello

Wow. Are there people who are trying to get the ban removed?

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YES, and a lot of people are donating to USARK because all the money goes to lawyers to help us fight against this and future Bans.

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Originally Posted by AZ_Equine

YES, and a lot of people are donating to USARK because all the money goes to lawyers to help us fight against this and future Bans.

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Glad to know someone's trying to make it right.

Tegu's are also a big problem in Florida, if I remember correctly.

I understand that Burms and other invasive species are changing the environment and forcing out native species, but I kind of feel that that's life. Evolution will take its course, and either animals will evolve to adapt to new predators/prey or they will unfortunately be wiped out. Isn't that nature though? It's happened a million times before on Earth, it's just now we think we can do something to stop it.

I mean, look at humans. The single most disruptive and destructive animal on the face of the Earth, but we aren't trying to remove ourselves. We think we belong here more than anything else. :/

I dunno, I feel like since Burms/etc are so settled in, eradicating their population is pretty much impossible.

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Originally Posted by xFenrir

Tegu's are also a big problem in Florida, if I remember correctly.

I understand that Burms and other invasive species are changing the environment and forcing out native species, but I kind of feel that that's life. Evolution will take its course, and either animals will evolve to adapt to new predators/prey or they will unfortunately be wiped out. Isn't that nature though? It's happened a million times before on Earth, it's just now we think we can do something to stop it.

I mean, look at humans. The single most disruptive and destructive animal on the face of the Earth, but we aren't trying to remove ourselves. We think we belong here more than anything else. :/

I dunno, I feel like since Burms/etc are so settled in, eradicating their population is pretty much impossible.

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Exactly! So glad to meet someone with the same opinion as me. I mean, humans are an invasive species. We've invaded every animals habitat, but no one wants to declare hunting season on us. I mean, I'm not saying we should kill off the human race, but... We're way worse than other animals.
And it is evolution. Life goes on, the earth changes. That's how it works, and it's how we survive.

I agree too that humans are an invasive species! lol... We take whatever we want because we have this idea that we have a right to everything! If a man jumps into water that has a sign that says "danger alligators" and gets bit we go out and kill an alligator even though that dumbass jumped into the alligators house. People are wondering why more and more moose are walking through neighborhoods in Alaska when its obvious we just threw up a new apartment complex on a piece of land that once was inhabited by those moose... I am no environmentalist but an animal lover and I hate to see this kind of thing. It makes me angry!

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Originally Posted by xFenrir

Tegu's are also a big problem in Florida, if I remember correctly.

I understand that Burms and other invasive species are changing the environment and forcing out native species, but I kind of feel that that's life. Evolution will take its course, and either animals will evolve to adapt to new predators/prey or they will unfortunately be wiped out. Isn't that nature though? It's happened a million times before on Earth, it's just now we think we can do something to stop it.

I mean, look at humans. The single most disruptive and destructive animal on the face of the Earth, but we aren't trying to remove ourselves. We think we belong here more than anything else. :/

I dunno, I feel like since Burms/etc are so settled in, eradicating their population is pretty much impossible.

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Their population is not major. They do not have high numbers, they are not outnumbering many of the native fauna, it's all misguided statistics based on the Nature Conservancy, as much as I love those people for their work with endangered species. None the less, to say that "evolution will take over" is a very misunderstanding of the feats of evolution in action. You have to remember that a factor of evolution is time. Lots and lots of time. Humans are the reason we have to put species on the endangered list, because they can not adapt fast enough to deal with our presence in areas we once were vacated from.

We have to continue to control the native population because they are native and their species has a right to survive. By allowing invasives to overrun "out compete" our native population we are in essence allowing a species with no right to survive in that area, out compete a species who has the right to continued existence. The thing that triggered the burmese python stuff in Florida started because scientist found a wireless transmitter from an endangered species they were monitoring (rat species) inside a burmese python. This led to population surveys to give us an idea of the density these pythons had established. Thanks to flawed surveys, and well paid researchers who are pro anti species endangerment (please note the sarcasm in that tone), numbers were generated that made this issue look out of control . . . If you go to the everglades, chances are you will not find a burmese python. That seems pretty surprising giving the latest polls stated 36-50k were inhabiting the everglades.

On that note - eradicating the population in the wild is still plausable, but moot. Cold spells kill them off. It's been proven with research from a univeristiy in South Carolina... However, the bans are simply hurting the industry and those who seek to use these amazing animals in education classes across the US to encourage respect toward snake populations in the wild, and an appreciation for the populations in captivity.

Will the ban do anything? Heck no . . . I'm pretty sure that if a DPS officer pulls you over crossing state lines and sees your snake and you call your burmese a reticulated python, they will not know a bit of difference. . . this is the government stepping in to fix a problem that will in the end be able to fix itself, or have other means of a solution at a STATE level, and not a federal one. . As an officer told me the other day when we were talking snakes . . . "I can kill our enemies or die for my country trying, but when I come home, I can't even take my best friend across state lines" . . .

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Originally Posted by xFenrir

Evolution will take its course, and either animals will evolve to adapt to new predators/prey or they will unfortunately be wiped out. Isn't that nature though? It's happened a million times before on Earth, it's just now we think we can do something to stop it.

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I hate to bring this thread a bit off topic, but the problem with invasive species is that they are not natural, and they never were a problem until humans came up with the idea of moving a species from one area of the world to another. Without human involvement, the Burmese pythons never would have made it to the Everglades. Invasive species flourish because they have no natural predators in the area they are taken to and therefore do not experience the normal checks and balance of an established ecosystem. They can potentially wipe out many native species, at a rate that does not occur in a "natural" situation.

Yes, eventually things balance out (probably in hundreds or thousands of years), but the ecosystem is never the same again and can even become a "dead zone" of sorts if the invader kills off everything, loses all of its resources and then dies off itself. And yes, humans are the worst of the invasive species, but we definitely don't help things by continuing to introduce new invasives.

Don't get me wrong - I am generally for the keeping of exotic animals (with the exception of endangered species and the strong belief that everyone should buy captive bred animals if possible), but invasive species are a huge problem, ecologically speaking. There definitely needs to be better education or adoption programs or something before creating a law that's just going to force more people to release their exotic pets.

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Originally Posted by Arcapello

Exactly! So glad to meet someone with the same opinion as me. I mean, humans are an invasive species. We've invaded every animals habitat, but no one wants to declare hunting season on us. I mean, I'm not saying we should kill off the human race, but... We're way worse than other animals.
And it is evolution. Life goes on, the earth changes. That's how it works, and it's how we survive.

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Hitler did just that. He believed his race of people to be superior, and if he could collectively destroy the other races, his particular race deserved the right for continued existence as the stronger genes. It was his viewpoint on human evolution, and a theory that was originally thought up in Darwins time. . .

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Originally Posted by Andybill

I agree too that humans are an invasive species! lol... We take whatever we want because we have this idea that we have a right to everything! If a man jumps into water that has a sign that says "danger alligators" and gets bit we go out and kill an alligator even though that dumbass jumped into the alligators house. People are wondering why more and more moose are walking through neighborhoods in Alaska when its obvious we just threw up a new apartment complex on a piece of land that once was inhabited by those moose... I am no environmentalist but an animal lover and I hate to see this kind of thing. It makes me angry!

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Same here, it upsets me that most people either can't see it, or they don't care.

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Originally Posted by reptileexperts

Hitler did just that. He believed his race of people to be superior, and if he could collectively destroy the other races, his particular race deserved the right for continued existence as the stronger genes. It was his viewpoint on human evolution, and a theory that was originally thought up in Darwins time. . .

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I don't think one species should die off, I just don't think we should be killing off other species because "We're better than them", when we really are the ones at fault for moving into their habitat.

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Originally Posted by gruneaugen86

I hate to bring this thread a bit off topic, but the problem with invasive species is that they are not natural, and they never were a problem until humans came up with the idea of moving a species from one area of the world to another. Without human involvement, the Burmese pythons never would have made it to the Everglades. Invasive species flourish because they have no natural predators in the area they are taken to and therefore do not experience the normal checks and balance of an established ecosystem. They can potentially wipe out many native species, at a rate that does not occur in a "natural" situation.

Yes, eventually things balance out (probably in hundreds or thousands of years), but the ecosystem is never the same again and can even become a "dead zone" of sorts if the invader kills off everything, loses all of its resources and then dies off itself. And yes, humans are the worst of the invasive species, but we definitely don't help things by continuing to introduce new invasives.

Don't get me wrong - I am generally for the keeping of exotic animals (with the exception of endangered species and the strong belief that everyone should buy captive bred animals if possible), but invasive species are a huge problem, ecologically speaking. There definitely needs to be better education or adoption programs or something before creating a law that's just going to force more people to release their exotic pets.

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There should be a database or something where exotic pets are recorded. Something like that- The law just makes people more likely to dump their pets.

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Originally Posted by reptileexperts

Their population is not major. They do not have high numbers, they are not outnumbering many of the native fauna, it's all misguided statistics based on the Nature Conservancy, as much as I love those people for their work with endangered species. None the less, to say that "evolution will take over" is a very misunderstanding of the feats of evolution in action. You have to remember that a factor of evolution is time. Lots and lots of time. Humans are the reason we have to put species on the endangered list, because they can not adapt fast enough to deal with our presence in areas we once were vacated from.

We have to continue to control the native population because they are native and their species has a right to survive. By allowing invasives to overrun "out compete" our native population we are in essence allowing a species with no right to survive in that area, out compete a species who has the right to continued existence. The thing that triggered the burmese python stuff in Florida started because scientist found a wireless transmitter from an endangered species they were monitoring (rat species) inside a burmese python. This led to population surveys to give us an idea of the density these pythons had established. Thanks to flawed surveys, and well paid researchers who are pro anti species endangerment (please note the sarcasm in that tone), numbers were generated that made this issue look out of control . . . If you go to the everglades, chances are you will not find a burmese python. That seems pretty surprising giving the latest polls stated 36-50k were inhabiting the everglades.

On that note - eradicating the population in the wild is still plausable, but moot. Cold spells kill them off. It's been proven with research from a univeristiy in South Carolina... However, the bans are simply hurting the industry and those who seek to use these amazing animals in education classes across the US to encourage respect toward snake populations in the wild, and an appreciation for the populations in captivity.

Will the ban do anything? Heck no . . . I'm pretty sure that if a DPS officer pulls you over crossing state lines and sees your snake and you call your burmese a reticulated python, they will not know a bit of difference. . . this is the government stepping in to fix a problem that will in the end be able to fix itself, or have other means of a solution at a STATE level, and not a federal one. . As an officer told me the other day when we were talking snakes . . . "I can kill our enemies or die for my country trying, but when I come home, I can't even take my best friend across state lines" . . .

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I heard someone argue the other day that our soldiers can die for this country, but if they ever have to move, they can't take their pets with them. It's sad.
And the bans are definitely not helping. I do understand that something has to be done at some point, but I don't think the bans doing anything but upsetting people. I'm sure there's some other solution.

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Originally Posted by gruneaugen86

Don't get me wrong - I am generally for the keeping of exotic animals (with the exception of endangered species and the strong belief that everyone should buy captive bred animals if possible), but invasive species are a huge problem, ecologically speaking. There definitely needs to be better education or adoption programs or something before creating a law that's just going to force more people to release their exotic pets.

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I agree that invasive species such cats and pigs are incredibly destructive but I'd like to see the tiniest shred of proof that Burmese are causing major even minor ecological damage in the Everglades. I suggest going back and reading the Python Report and other studies used to justify the large constrictor's inclusion to the Lacey Act. You can read more about one of the more popular studies here:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...the-Everglades

Even while concluding about that the decrease in white tailed deer population, rabbits, and foxes must be attributed to Burmese, the authors actually found that the coyote, panther, and rat population has increased in Florida :8:

This is the exact opposite of what would be expected if the python population was out of control. Rodents, the ideal prey for most sizes of python, should rapidly be decreasing in such a scenario. Likewise, as near or actual apex predators, Coyotes and Florida Panther populations should also be declining if Pythons were responsible for the decimation of most other prey species. There is no way possible for populations of other top predators to increase if pythons were single-handedly wiping out their food sources :colbert:

Here's another quote from the article in the link:

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Everglades National Park spokeswoman Linda Friar said park biologists have "no hard science" demonstrating there has been a dramatic reduction in mammal populations.

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It's very easy for an author of a report to conclude whatever they wish by choosing certain data points and ignoring others (as well as an incredibly limited sample size)