Burnt/Browning Paper Towels

Hello all,

First post on these forums, I'm a regular over on the Repashy forums under the same username.

I was wondering if anyone had any solutions for paper towels burning in the cages? I'm using 20-30gallon sterilite bins for our two new BPs both of which have Zoo med 8watt under tank heaters. Zoo med does say not to use the heat pads on plastic (so does Exo Terra) but I have personally used Exo Terra heat pads with many of our Nephrurus amyae setups without a problem.

The issue I'm having is that temps seem to be 76-78F cool side, 77-81F warm side, 90F basking which is a little cooler then I would like. The two heat pads are hooked up to a rheostat and are set between medium and high.

The issue is, when I tempgun the pad itself on the outside of the cage its hitting 165F or so and the paper towels on the inside are browning after 5 days. I'm afraid that this is going to cause a fire and after doing a bit of research I've found that zoo med heat pads run hotter then some others.

Any tips or pointers would be much appreciated. :)

Turn off the heatpads immediately. Your snakes can get burned. Buy a thermostat to regulate the temps of the pads. I have a VE-200 and love it :gj:

A thermostat.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Turn off the heatpads immediately. Your snakes can get burned. Buy a thermostat to regulate the temps of the pads. I have a VE-200 and love it :gj:

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Does the VE-200 allow for multiple cages to be hooked up to the one thermostat? Also, until I get the thermostat should I turn the heatpads off completely? I'm kind of worried that they will end up being too cool to digest properly.

Like I said the basking temp is only 90F measured with a PE-1 temp gun its only the heatpad itself thats hitting those high temps 140-160F.

Thanks.

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Also, I'm wondering, how would a thermostat bring the temps up by 2-5F in the cage without causing the heatpad itself to stay at 140-160F?

Like if I purchase the VE-200 and set it to 80F, isnt that just going to drop the heatpads output down to 80F? I would think that this would cause the temps in the cage to drop lower then what they are currently.

I'd invest in some other heating equipment. Anything reaching those temperatures and staying that way is dangerous (and I don't trust zoo med/exo terra pads, too many sad stories). Have you considered using a ceramic heat emitter? They don't emit light but get things nice and toasty. I've also been using ultratherm pads with no issues, you can get them from most supply sites such as reptile basics or the bean farm.

How is your set-up?
There is no way your pads are getting that hot but not inside the tub.
My flex-a-watt is set to 98 degrees to get 94-95 degrees in the tub.

BTW you hook the mats/pads to a power strip then plug the strip into the stat;)

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Originally Posted by Valentine Pirate

I'd invest in some other heating equipment. Anything reaching those temperatures and staying that way is dangerous (and I don't trust zoo med/exo terra pads, too many sad stories). Have you considered using a ceramic heat emitter? They don't emit light but get things nice and toasty. I've also been using ultratherm pads with no issues, you can get them from most supply sites such as reptile basics or the bean farm.

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I could definitely purchase some different heat pads, if I did I would go with ultratherm or heat tape. The emitter wouldn't work with the bin setup so well because I have no where to mount the light/dome.

If I did purchase a heatpad that say only put out 100F though, how would this keep my cages hot enough for the BPs? If the 160F output is keeping these sterilite bins at 78-82F, how would a heatpad with less output be alright for this species?

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

How is your set-up?
There is no way your pads are getting that hot but not inside the tub.
My flex-a-watt is set to 98 degrees to get 94-95 degrees in the tub.

BTW you hook the mats/pads to a power strip then plug the strip into the stat;)

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One sec, gonna snap some pics for you all, appreciate all the quick responses.

yes pic please

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

BTW you hook the mats/pads to a power strip then plug the strip into the stat;)

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Semi-OT: This has never made sense to me. If you have several mats pugged into your strip, but only one probe to measure the temp of one mat, what happens if another mat, without the probe shorts out? Wouldn't that injure a snake, thus defeating the purpose of the Thermostat?

Heres a link to the album over at the repashy forums. Just hover over the pics for a description.

http://www.forums.repashy.com/album.php?albumid=592


Heres a few important ones.

Enchi Lesser's Heater
http://www.forums.repashy.com/pictur...pictureid=6171

Enchi Lessers Basking spot above paper towels
http://www.forums.repashy.com/pictur...pictureid=6172

Enchi Lesser Middle of cage temp, could have been higher because PE-1 was probably bouncing off of the condensation.
http://www.forums.repashy.com/pictur...pictureid=6173

Bumble Bee Heater
http://www.forums.repashy.com/pictur...pictureid=6165

Bumble Bee Heater temp
http://www.forums.repashy.com/pictur...pictureid=6166

Bumble Bee Bask spot temp above paper towels.
http://www.forums.repashy.com/pictur...pictureid=6163

Bumble Bee bask spot under paper towels w/ burnt towel.
http://www.forums.repashy.com/pictur...pictureid=6168

Not sure how the pad could be getting to 165 on the outside of the tub and only 90 on the inside? Where are you checking the temp? If the temp of the pad on the outside is 165 then the inside surface would/should be the same, especially on a plastic tub. If the paper towels are browning/burning then I guarantee the surface temp is way more than 90!

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Originally Posted by Tfpets

Not sure how the pad could be getting to 165 on the outside of the tub and only 90 on the inside? Where are you checking the temp? If the temp of the pad on the outside is 165 then the inside surface would/should be the same, especially on a plastic tub. If the paper towels are browning/burning then I guarantee the surface temp is way more than 90!

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Not sure if you saw the pics or not but I'm pointing the PE-1 directly at the bask spot about 1-2inches above it.

The room temperature is about 75-78F because I also keep Uroplatus and Rhacodactylus.

Hmmmm, guess I missed those pics? You're definitely getting a hot spot somehow. Not sure of the exact temps it would take but to do that to a paper towels is REALLY hot!

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Originally Posted by Tfpets

Hmmmm, guess I missed those pics? You're definitely getting a hot spot somehow. Not sure of the exact temps it would take but to do that to a paper towels is REALLY hot!

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They should be back on page 1, are they working here? There might be a weird hotspot going on.

You only want the SURFACE TEMP between 88 and 95 degrees............ not the air temp

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Originally Posted by OctagonGecko729

They should be back on page 1, are they working here? There might be a weird hotspot going on.

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Are you sure it is Browning from getting too hot? I use paper towels as substrate and occasionally when a snake urinates its a amber/brown color that looks exactly like your pics after it dries. I'm not doubting you or anything, just thought maybe it was new to u.

I agree that its weird that yur heatpad can get sooo hot while the basking stays lower like that. How many layers of paper towel are you using?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

also, you can set the tubs directly on the mats, as long as your stat is regulating them you should be good.
set the stat so that the inside floor temp doent get over 95.
your snakes will move the paper towels so dont worry too much about above that.

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Originally Posted by akillian24

Semi-OT: This has never made sense to me. If you have several mats pugged into your strip, but only one probe to measure the temp of one mat, what happens if another mat, without the probe shorts out? Wouldn't that injure a snake, thus defeating the purpose of the Thermostat?

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Its a balance game, I set my stat and give it time for all of them to level out. Then I temp gum all my shelves, depending on the temp difference I move the probe to either the 2nd or 3rd from the hottest mat. Then readjust the stat and recheck everything till I get it where I want it.
BTW most of the thermostats only have one probe and yes a lot rides on that one little probe;)

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Originally Posted by Zombie

Are you sure it is Browning from getting too hot? I use paper towels as substrate and occasionally when a snake urinates its a amber/brown color that looks exactly like your pics after it dries. I'm not doubting you or anything, just thought maybe it was new to u.

I agree that its weird that yur heatpad can get sooo hot while the basking stays lower like that. How many layers of paper towel are you using?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

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You might be right, it may be urates, the stains only occur underneath the paper towel though and I do not think I've found them on the cool side of the tank before.

I am new to snakes in general.

I'm using two or three thick paper towels.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

You only want the SURFACE TEMP between 88 and 95 degrees............ not the air temp

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Ok cool, I'll go turn down the temps then until we are at that. I'll also measure the temps from the actual floor of the cage instead of ontop of the paper towels.

Measured some hotspots under the paper towels at 130-140F this time. Luckily my two girls didn't go under the paper towels and get scorched.

Dropped the rheostat halfway between low and medium.

My cool side under the paper towels is at like 75F though, is this too low? Both snakes will have access to full body basking at 88-95F under the paper towels. Should they be alright even if the cool side is 72-75F?

the cool side really shouldnt be under 78ish but that is more regulated by air temps.
depending on how cool you keep that room, you might have to add heat to the cool side to get those up a litte.

I wouldn't fuss over what the temps are in the low range just make sure they arent being burned. I don't really care what people have to say about my methods but i just use my hand to test the temperature. If its too hot for me itll burn the bp for sure. If it is hot but I can handle it its about 100 degrees... still too hot. Once it is mildly warm I find that is the best for the hot spot and the cool end is ussually many degrees cooler so there is a gradient. My snakes feed multiple times per week, shed whole every time, never strike, and never regurge. Also never had and RI (knock on multiple wooden surfaces....) and I have never used a hygrometer. Just make sure you snakes are happy, and they usually do a good job of letting me know when that is :). Good luck mate.

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Originally Posted by Adam Bittel

I wouldn't fuss over what the temps are in the low range just make sure they arent being burned. I don't really care what people have to say about my methods but i just use my hand to test the temperature. If its too hot for me itll burn the bp for sure. If it is hot but I can handle it its about 100 degrees... still too hot. Once it is mildly warm I find that is the best for the hot spot and the cool end is ussually many degrees cooler so there is a gradient. My snakes feed multiple times per week, shed whole every time, never strike, and never regurge. Also never had and RI (knock on multiple wooden surfaces....) and I have never used a hygrometer. Just make sure you snakes are happy, and they usually do a good job of letting me know when that is :). Good luck mate.

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I know that for my own personal reasons, I like knowing exactly what's going on in my tubs. I am responsible for these animals and there are many tools that help me give them the best possible chance at a stress free life. I also have thousands of dollars in animals and would not risk any of them. Purchasing a nice tstat is a good investment. Why even risk the possibility of an issue?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

This is a fire waiting to happen!

My suggestion, if you are going to keep the bins on the floor as it looks in the picture.

1) Get heat tape
2) Pick up some cheap ceramic tiles to put beneath the bins (between carpet and bin)
3) Get those tiny rubber/silicone bumpers you might use on a cabinet/drawer that slams shut
4) THERMOSTAT!

Place the heat type on the ceramic tile, place the bumper on the tile so the bin is just above the heat tape and not right on it. Put thermostat probe in that space. Should be no more than 3/8-3/4 inch depending on size of the bmpers

DO NOT FEED THE ANIMALS until you have the right temps.