undecided: pied vs. firefly

need help guys! im stuck getting undecided on which morph to choose... if you were to choose which one is cooler? Firefly or Pied morph? disregarding the price...

Pied is cool, Firefly is better for breeding. Its all personal preference.

Pieds are great looking pets but more difficult to get cool combos when breeding. Firefly is beautiful and can breed anything and produce cool babies. I would say Pied if a Pet and Firefly if planning to breed.

Really? A pied has been reduced to pet status these days? Never thought I'd see the day. :-(

I'd say my enchi pin pied is pretty darned cool looking as a combo.

I wonder if Justin Kobylka and Jeff Holloway know all the pieds and combos they're making with them don't have potential any longer now that pieds are only valued at pet status?

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I didnt say anything about them being pet status, they are really cool, one day maybe I would work on breeding them, but me I personally would reather have a firefly right now. So that is why I vote that way.

I think what they meant by "pet status" was that because the pied is recessive, the potential for creating pied combos is much less than the potential for firefly combos would be. No one is saying the pieds aren't worth anything, just that they're more difficult, per se, to get results with.

That being said, id go for the firefly myself. I'm not a huge fan of pied and pied combos but I love fire combos. :)


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Originally Posted by heylookitsjon

I think what they meant by "pet status" was that because the pied is recessive, the potential for creating pied combos is much less than the potential for firefly combos would be. No one is saying the pieds aren't worth anything, just that they're more difficult, per se, to get results with.

That being said, id go for the firefly myself. I'm not a huge fan of pied and pied combos but I love fire combos. :)


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They said, get a pied if a pet, a firefly for breeding.

I guess I come from an era where there was great satisfaction in working hard for an end result.

The era after is used to instant gratification and easier results. That's why recessive tend to hold their value longer.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Really? A pied has been reduced to pet status these days? Never thought I'd see the day. :-(

I'd say my enchi pin pied is pretty darned cool looking as a combo.

I wonder if Justin Kobylka and Jeff Holloway know all the pieds and combos they're making with them don't have potential any longer now that pieds are only valued at pet status?

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I'm with you Robin I believe the Pied is a must, a foundation animal, gotta have the recessive's also not only the co-dom and dom instant gratification animals. Me, I can't wait to produce an Axanthic Pied and Albino Pied gotta have them. Remember this Pied's are still King.

Nothing in my collection gets more "oohs" and "ahs" from people new to BPs than my pied.

Pieds Pieds Pieds. I can sell pieds before they ever even hatch. Seriously, I had two people waiting for my girl to lay and was willing to put down a deposit. If you have a good quality pied, it will be much more in demand than a firefly. I have both, but the pieds are more popular. I wish I had a 100 of them.

Also, if you are planning on breeding, get the pied first. Because it is recessive, you may want to pair it up with other morphs to get those morphs (like fire) het pieds. So, doing combination pieds takes a lot longer. However, it is worth every minute, IMHO.

Pieds....without a doubt.

The FireFly Pied (there isn't one on the big morph list yet)

I have to say pieds as well... It is what got me back into BPs. My pied is the model for my logo. Recessives darn sure aren't instant gratification, but when I finally get to produce my own pied.... OMG that will be a VERY happy day for me. I guess I love recessives, my collection is in my signature, notice a pattern? LOL

I will say firefly's are freaking awesome as well, I am actually looking to grab one before too long down the road but I just spent my money this past weekend getting my champagne so the firefly will have to wait a little bit, but that is fine... I am patient. (I think you REALLY have to be if you want to breed balls.)

I LOVE fire combos but you cant beat a good looking pied imo :gj:

Mmmm, Pie(d). :Homer Simpson drool: ;)

I love fireflies, especially If you want to see "immediate" results with your breeding. However, pieds will always be one of my top morphs.


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Im not a huge pied fan BUT the big questions are :
What are your plans for it?
If breeding then what do you have now?

I want both! But I said pied first.

When I saw a pied for the first time I was like :O.... So I got one. Everybody that has seen my collection are wowed by my pied. I love showing off my pied guy and I have 2 girls lined up for him already! Pied all the way!

I love pied, and I plan on getting a firefly soon. Are you looking for a male or female? If female I would say pied hands down! Male it is a tuff choice, if your looking for a quick results go firefly. If your like me an trying to build a solid breeding project for the next 5 years go with pied. The hardest part is trying to find ___ het pied females that you really like and will make a solid breeding project for the next 5 years, while trying not to kill the bank account.

Just by owning a pied, many people get that "instant gratification". They open a tub, and see some white and some pattern. It's a pretty good feeling. I was personally never really into pieds that much. They looked cool on their own, but I don't like that there are so many of my favorite combos that don't mix well with pieds =\. White bodies and patterned heads was cool the first time. It's getting old lol...

Bring on the enchi :D:D:bow::bow::gj::gj::banana::banana:!!

That's the whole reason I got into pieds :D! The best looking pied combos are double recessive combos. Axanthic pied, albino pied, clown pied, caramel pied, hypo pied :tongue2:.......

I suggest the OP look into these, and set a long term goal. Maybe add a co-dom or double co-dom into the double recessive project to start making magic :gj:.

Pieds are my absolute favorite morph. Just straight up Pieds. Once you start throwing some combos to the Pied gene, it gets even more exciting! I would love to own a Pumpkin Pied. They are a project worth working with, as it'll keep you guessing, keep you trying and keep everything exciting. Breeding shouldn't be about 'instant gratification', as far as I'm concerned. Especially if you're working towards something fantastic. It'll be worth the wait!

I say Pied... because if you find a good Pied, you should never pass it up. Fireflies come and go. Pretty Pieds are worth the investment.

Edit: You said Hypo Pied.... Omgdroooool....

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Originally Posted by 4Ballz

The FireFly Pied (there isn't one on the big morph list yet)

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You beat me too it. I was asking this same question pied or firefly as first snake, then I decided that a firefly pied would be one hot snake, but it appeared that one does not exist as of yet. From that day, I decided that was going to be one of my ultimate goals down the line. Decided to go with pieds. Although in retrospect, for what I spent for the 1.1 adult pieds, I should have gone the other way, as I could have produced more variety and most likely with less cash.

Fires are nice.
Fire Pieds are VERY nice.
http://www.piedpeddler.com/data/stor...f80c320e4a.jpg
Firefly Pieds should be amazing!

-Paul

Justin has a shot of producing the first firefly pied this year from Clutch #82 laid on June 20th!

Recessive before Dom/Codom for me all day everyday.....so I go with the Pied

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Originally Posted by seeya205

Pieds are great looking pets but more difficult to get cool combos when breeding. Firefly is beautiful and can breed anything and produce cool babies. I would say Pied if a Pet and Firefly if planning to breed.

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I'll take a Pet Pied any day :rofl:, Albino Pied, Hypo Pied, Pastel Hypo Pied, Enchi Pied, Pinstripe Pied, I want the all ;)

Sure for people without patience and wanting instant gratification I guess a firefly would be a better option :rolleyes:, but I can tell you that for anyone who likes pied and is serious about breeding you never have enough pieds in your collection.

If I had to chose between all the projects I have right now I would chose my pied projects over any other.

If I was the OP I would get a female pied this year and in about a year I would get a firefly male (pretty obvious where I am going with that)

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Originally Posted by PiedPeddler

Fires are nice.
Fire Pieds are VERY nice.
http://www.piedpeddler.com/data/stor...f80c320e4a.jpg
Firefly Pieds should be amazing!

-Paul

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:gj:

That's easy pied! No question! My first ball was a pied!

Mark my words. Pieds will never become obsolete. There is nothing else like them. Bright snakes like the firefly are a dime a dozen now days all you have to do is throw pastel to something. But there is nothing like cutting that egg and seeing patches of white. And people pay for it year after year. Sure they have fallen in value as of late but they still aren't "cheap" and with co-doms het pied readily available now days its easy to make pieds.

I think the bottom line is recessive awesome gene vs pretty cool codom combo morph! I think the answer is that if you can decide to never go the recessive route definitively go the codom route. However, if you are like the rest of use who'll eventually need to incorporate the recessive genes you better start adding them now!


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Pieds are awesome but I would not recommend recessives as a first breeding project. I think co-doms will spike your interest right away where the recessive will test your patience and a first timer may get bored quick. I think most first timers need instant gradification! I never said they were "pet status"! I know from my Albino projects that it does take alot of time and patience. A co-dom will give you cool combo morphs your first breeding season! Robin, how many more years did it take Justin to start getting cool Pied combos compared to cool co-dom combos? That is my point!

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Originally Posted by seeya205

Pieds are awesome but I would not recommend recessives as a first breeding project. I think co-doms will spike your interest right away where the recessive will test your patience and a first timer may get bored quick. I think most first timers need instant gradification!

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I'm not a breeder YET, but for my most anticipated pairing this year, I'm hoping for some instant gratification, but I also have a 2 year project, and a longer term goal in mind :gj:. I tried to tie in my instant gratification with my long term project/goal. So hopefully it's step 1 :gj:.

I voted Piebald, that being said I also have a Firefly and love Fire combos...

Pieds are what got me into Ball Pythons in the first place and I absolutly love my 50/50 girl. I think every collection should have a Pied or 2. My 2 cents - As far as visual recessives go, start with females to shorten the process to produce visual offspring.

pieds are much more beautiful in my opinion. but hey thats me. fireflys are cool now but they will fade. pieds have been selling well for many years.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Justin has a shot of producing the first firefly pied this year from Clutch #82 laid on June 20th!

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Can't wait to see what hatches out of that one:please:

Not to jack the thread..

But wouldn't it be a better move to get XXX het pied ?

Or even a breeding pair ?

That would cut the time considerably would it not ?

My vote is pied

ive heard from a friend and saw from the new that there's a certain problem with a pied ball python regarding the feeding and the digestive tract. any opinions about that? im getting paranoid because i seems to me that pied morphs are slow growers and complicated compared to other morphs.. is it true? can anyone enlighten me?

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Originally Posted by milktank

ive heard from a friend and saw from the new that there's a certain problem with a pied ball python regarding the feeding and the digestive tract. any opinions about that? im getting paranoid because i seems to me that pied morphs are slow growers and complicated compared to other morphs.. is it true? can anyone enlighten me?

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Never heard about digestive track issues :confusd:

Some animals are problem feeders regardless of their paint job, some animal are slow grower regardless of their paint job also.

I can tell you that MY pieds, het pieds and now pied combo are eating like horses compare to some other of my animals and usually will take a second serving if offered.

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Originally Posted by milktank

ive heard from a friend and saw from the new that there's a certain problem with a pied ball python regarding the feeding and the digestive tract. any opinions about that? im getting paranoid because i seems to me that pied morphs are slow growers and complicated compared to other morphs.. is it true? can anyone enlighten me?

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I have to agree with Deborah I've never heard of any digestive issue's, I can tell you that my two female's are chow hounds and will feed every time I offer them a meal.

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Originally Posted by seeya205

. A co-dom will give you cool combo morphs your first breeding season! Robin, how many more years did it take Justin to start getting cool Pied combos compared to cool co-dom combos? That is my point!

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It doesn't take as long as you think. I produced the first Pewter Pied and possibly the first Sterling Pied only two seasons after beginning the project. It doesn't take long with good planning. I produced my first Pastel Pied (2008) in about the same time frame. With all the ingredients available on the market, it only makes sense if that is what you are working towards. Double recessives are another story.....but I still have my hand in those as well. Good luck. You guys keep making the codoms and I'll make the co-dom double recessives.:D

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Originally Posted by milktank

ive heard from a friend and saw from the new that there's a certain problem with a pied ball python regarding the feeding and the digestive tract. any opinions about that? im getting paranoid because i seems to me that pied morphs are slow growers and complicated compared to other morphs.. is it true? can anyone enlighten me?

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I'd love to know how and where these rumors get started.lol. I've been working with Pieds for almost 10 years and I've never had even one regurge or feeding issue. All of my Pieds, Pied combos, het Pied, and combo het Pieds are absolute pigs......with the exception of the Pastel het Pieds. Pastels just suck in my opinion. I have a large collection of Pied and Pied combo animals and can't say I have had any issue with fertility, feeding, or health. Not to mention, they are the largest animals in my collection.
Current collection:
2.4 Pieds (one 2 year old at 2000 grams and another well over 3000)
1.1 Pewter Pied (female may be Sterling and is over 2000 grams at less than 2 years old)
0.3 het Pied (Bertha, my original=biggest ball python I've ever seen 5'10" and 12+ lbs.)
1.2 Pewter het Pied
0.3 Pastel het Pied
1.0 Super Pewter pos het Pied. (will prove out within the next couple of months)

We are waiting on Pin het Pied eggs to hatch this week and DH Ghost Pied eggs to hatch in about 2 weeks.

Pieds sell easily and always grab peoples' attention. They take up the largest collection of a single morph/combo in our collection and will likely continue to grow. Bring on the combos!

I also never heard of the random rumor lol. Honestly, I think trolls make it up.

I heard from a breeder who heard from their cousin's friend that a breeder in Canada knew a guy who said that super enchi combos turn into white snakes after 1 year :O...

Kinda funny that the only 2 snakes in my collection who seem to be picky are my pied female and my enchi het pied male. Those are the only snakes in my collection that have the pied gene. Everyone else eats perfectly fine on the schedule I set them on. Most likely a coincidence :confuzd:

There are no inherent problems with feeding, growing, and breeding Pieds. Feel free to peruse the clutch records pages of our web site linked below. We have been raising and breeding Pieds, Het Pieds, and their combo's for years. The males typically breed their 2nd winter, and the females their 3rd. Just like any other ball python... Except Pastels. My experiences with them is a little different than Brandon's. We struggled ridiculously with them until we got the Pied gene into the Pastel. Our Pastel Het Pied and Pastel Pieds have done fantastic, the single-gene Pastels were terrible.
-Paul

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Originally Posted by milktank

ive heard from a friend and saw from the new that there's a certain problem with a pied ball python regarding the feeding and the digestive tract. any opinions about that? im getting paranoid because i seems to me that pied morphs are slow growers and complicated compared to other morphs.. is it true? can anyone enlighten me?

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My enchi pin pied has no issues.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

My enchi pin pied has no issues.

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Robin, now you're just rubbing it in.:P

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Originally Posted by Brandon Osborne

Robin, now you're just rubbing it in.:P

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LOL - I was thinking when I typed it out - I just love saying enchi pin pied! And my first pied as well! :P

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Originally Posted by rabernet

LOL - I was thinking when I typed it out - I just love saying enchi pin pied! And my first pied as well! :P

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:bow: Yeah, yeah, we get it! :P To the question about pieds, Deborah nailed it - it comes down to the individual snake, or possibly the line. I have a two year-old pied that just now started eating regularly (900g today), but have two 2011 het pieds (from Deb) and a pastel pied (unknown line) that eat like pigs. Oh, and very high hopes for the het boy I'm getting from Paul at the Pied Peddler when I pay him off and the temps drop! ;)

I have several pieds and several het pieds. Only one has gone on a hunger strike and once that ended, put on weight like a champ. I've had no issues with feeding pieds and think this rumor is similar to the ASF crack cocaine stuff. Some bad facts just refuse to die.