Probed my snakes for the first time and im pissed.

So I got my probing kit in today(8 piece set with balled tips from LLL reptiles). Just for the record, I decided to teach myself how to probe after doing extensive research. I know it isnt the same as having someone teach you, but with extreme caution I proceded. Heres a link to my last thread explaining why I chose to self teach. Heres a Link to the last thread, explaining why I opted to self teach.

Ive popped my two females before I bought them from the pet store, and My spider was sold to me as a male, and my burm as a female. They were a little too large for me to condifently pop, so I never did.

I started practicing on my smallest female normal. I used vaseline as the lubricant(as was recommended by Kobylka in his pro tip video) and stopped when I felt the least bit of resistance. Just as expected, it only went up 3 scales. Just to get a better feel for it, I did the other side of the cloaca, and probed her a few more times before putting her back. She was acting perfectly normal and appeared to be in no pain. It went very smoothly. So I moved up to my other female normal, and came to the conclusion that she was female. It went in only 3 scales.

Now my spider on the other hand, is far larger then my normals, and was a little trickier. He tried to squirm more than they did, but once I finally got him to sit still, I managed to probe him too. It has been my understanding that females will take a probe a distance of 1-3 scales and males will take a probe between 8-9 scales. I measured 4-5 when I probed him, and that falls above the female range but below the male range. Now it is theoreticly possible that I didnt make it all the way up, but I felt resistance, and I know that wasnt the middle of the cloaca barrier. I was scared to push harder because the last thing I want to do it her him, and im fairly confident he is a girl, with a deep cloaca, as when I popped him afterward I saw no trace of hemepenes, even a little. Im so mad! Now I have to get him up to female breeding weight, and get a male pinstripe to sire my spider and pastel next season. That means I have to drop another $200 and quarentine another snake ASAP if I want everyone to be healthy and ready in time.

Anyway, I attempted to probe my burm as well, but shes much bigger and stronger than my balls, and I couldnt even mange to get the probe into her cloaca whatsoever. I may just have to let time and size tell on that one XDD

whew...thought you were going to say something really bad happened

So you got a female for the price of a male? I see no problem with this picture haha.

I'm sorry your spider didn't prob out how you wanted. Did you try both sides? I don't prob my snakes, I can pop them up to about 400g and after that I get sperm plugs but I don't see signs of the hemipenes. I wouldn't give up hope on your spider being male just yet, especially if you got it from a reputable breeder. I would try to get a second opinion before running out and buying another male. Males will also breed much smaller than females so you have time. I started breeding my male enchi at 450g, you just need to be careful breeding the smaller guys. Or you could buy a proven breeder male if you have to get another male.

....is $200 really a lot of money for you? (not sure why it would totally make you this mad).

But you got a female spider for the price of a male so that is good, right? You could easily sell her and replace her with a male and have money left over. Or am I missing something?

I wouldn't call 5 scales a female. Female BPs rarely go over 3 scales. If I probed a 5 scale on a snake I would be thinking male. I hate when its in between like that, but females are generally 2-3 scales and males are 5+. Ive probed males at 4 as well. Also, if the male was clinching it would read less scales. I'd be pretty confident you got a male. This is my personal experience...

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Some of you seem to feel like it isn't a big deal, however I can completely sympathize with the OP. When you buy snakes specifically for breeding and you find out later on that they are sexed incorrectly, especially when you are only a few months away from pairing, it is completely natural that you would be pissed. Some have said that it is good as he got a female for the price of a male, but with spiders the prices are separated by at most $50-$100, and if you have no need for a female spider then you have no need for a female spider! To the OP, I would try probing again or probing the other side and seeing what you get. I hope this turns out well for you but if not maybe you can fit a female spider into your breeding plans.

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Originally Posted by Zombie

I wouldn't call 5 scales a female. Female BPs rarely go over 3 scales. If I probed a 5 scale on a snake I would be thinking male. I hate when its in between like that, but females are generally 2-3 scales and males are 5+. Ive probed males at 4 as well. Also, if the male was clinching it would read less scales. I'd be pretty confident you got a male. This is my personal experience...

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I agree with the above! I probed a spider someone was selling at 5 scales and it was supposed to be female so I passed!

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Originally Posted by Zombie

I wouldn't call 5 scales a female. Female BPs rarely go over 3 scales. If I probed a 5 scale on a snake I would be thinking male. I hate when its in between like that, but females are generally 2-3 scales and males are 5+. Ive probed males at 4 as well. Also, if the male was clinching it would read less scales. I'd be pretty confident you got a male. This is my personal experience...

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I agree.
I don't probe any snakes though, I like to know for 100% what a snake is, and imo the only way to know for a fact is to pop those organs out.
It takes time to learn pop a larger male but it's not that difficult done correctly.

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Originally Posted by gsarchie

Some of you seem to feel like it isn't a big deal, however I can completely sympathize with the OP. When you buy snakes specifically for breeding and you find out later on that they are sexed incorrectly, especially when you are only a few months away from pairing, it is completely natural that you would be pissed. Some have said that it is good as he got a female for the price of a male, but with spiders the prices are separated by at most $50-$100, and if you have no need for a female spider then you have no need for a female spider! To the OP, I would try probing again or probing the other side and seeing what you get. I hope this turns out well for you but if not maybe you can fit a female spider into your breeding plans.

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True. If your expecting something and get something else it can be irritating. The female/male spider price difference only applies to hatchling tho, a female with size is worth way more than a male...

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Once you do it enough you will get the hang of it and you will be able to tell the difference

Man, I saw the headline and thought, "oh no, another labeled female is actually male!"
But now that I'm reading this thread, I find that a male turned female is a bonus!
Females are worth more and when breeding, you want to be female heavy.
Either way, I also agree with resexing the snake. Probing isn't accurate enough for me.

Hi,

When you reached the "bottom" of the pocket what did it feel like?

Did it feel like there was some stretch in it like the bottom of a sock or was it a hard stop like hitting the tip of a shoe?


dr del

Do you go buy belly scales or little scales under the cloaca. Also there's like 2 sets under the cloaca so how do u tell

My bet is that it is a male. Pretty much every breeder I know sexes hatchlings by popping. If it pops male then you are 100% sure it's a male. If it pops female, then there's still that chance that its actually a male. So pretty much all of the mixups are "females" that turn out to be male, not the other way around. I suppose a labeling mix up is possible.

But that coupled with the fact that this your first time probing and you're probing on your own w/o instruction, suggests that it probably is a male. Not doubting you, but an experienced prober can show you the difference between a female and male, when you hit the end they have a different "feel" so when you get these inbetweens you can discern what is what.

And if he's larger now, it can be trickier to pop them as they're stronger and can resist being popped. See my above comment for popping giving false positives for females.

@ Everybody who posted XDD Yeah, in retrospect is is nice that I was able to get a female for a males price, but it just irretated me to no end that I would have to rework his chart, set new goals, I thought he was already up to weight, but now I have to wrry about her eating consistantly more(female weights stress me out more haha) Theoreticly I could sell her to get a boy, but honestly ive grown kind of attatched XP.

@dr del Well, at first it didnt go in far at all, but I angled more slightly and it slid in to scale 5. I cant rightly describe the barrier as I was too scared to push hard enough to get a good feel for it @_@. I wasnt even grasping the probe firmly. I held it loosely enough that when the probe met resistance my fingers began sliding up the probe. I gave the end a gentle nudge to confirm that I was stopped and measured. It did feel firm as opposed to flexible though. I thought about angling and trying again, but I thought I should consult you guys first = P

Unfortunately im but a lowly worker at petsmart, and between rent bills and cost of living 200 is more than I like to put out comfortably, I generally save up 50 bucks at a time whenever I feel it can be done. Doesnt quite break the bank, but its enough to not be happy about XD. Ill just have to get a pinstripe whenever the oppertunity arises, and spit out some lemon blasts and spinners before I get into the bees(Some of my favorite morph combos)

I've had 5 scale probes turn out male. Before being angry or upset, get confirmation from someone with experience. Re-read Zombie's post#7 above. I've had similar experience.

Yeah, I definitely want to figure out for sure what he/she is. Im trying to think of who I can take it to. Im up for a promotion at work pretty soon here and I wont be doing overnights anymore, so that very well may open up my saturdays. Then I could just take him with me to a snake show, and try and get one of those breeders to help me out. I want to be 100% positive before I rework my plans. Though maybe they should be a tad more flexible:rolleyes:

Check before you go to a show to see if they allow animals into the show. Most don't. Repticon does, but I don't know of many others that do.

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Youre right. Why would they let another persons snake who could have god knows what XD didnt think before typing that one did I? haha. Maybe I could have them show me on a normal. I could shell out $30, and there would be no risk of contamination or their animal being injured because I will have purchased it.

Ask around at the show if there is someone that would meet you to help.

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Are there any local breeders in your area? You can take your snake to them instead, just in case a show doesn't allow you to being it.

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You can ask a show coordinator. When I started I thought about having someone at the expo sex my snakes. It said on the website not to bring personal pets but I asked the coordinator anyway, I told him my situation, I did not know anyone who could help and I would just bring them in to be sexed then back out to the car. He emailed me a little later telling me if I brought them to the expo he would find someone to check for me. Lol, 3 boy snakes later I had my answer! No harm in asking before the expo, if they say no you are no worst off.

Unfortunately the closest breeder I know if is about an hour away, as is the snakeshow that always happens on days that I work XDD The only reptile vet I know of is in pennsylvania, so I cant do that either. I think snakeshow is my best bet. Ive had trouble even contacting the breeder I mentioned and ha ent succeeded in a meet up even in the case of a sale.

Since you aren't experienced in probing yet and it did go in fairly fair I wouldn't be so quick to jump to the conclusion that it's a female.

I can only hope so. Im very happy to hear that theres still a chance he may be a male. The websites I was looking at listed like 8 scales as a minimum for males, and I dont THINk I probed him incorrectly, but then again, it is my first time and I dont have any experience yet so who knows? For now I think im going to keep treating him like a boy, and simply set new projected weights on his feeding calender just in case. And hey, I nothing wrong with having another codom around. Now that Ive sold myself the idea of getting a little pinstripe male, Im not sure I want to change plans back haha. It would allow me to potentially produce two double codom moprhs in my first year. Thats not a bad start at all. It would just require patience @_@

Im just going to hold tight for that snake show, and maybe I can find a local guy I didnt know about who lives nearby.

As I mentioned earlier, it's most likely a male. Mixups happen with false positive females. I wouldn't sweat it and keep assuming he's actually a he.

Try feeling for the hemipenes, they are very obvious and easy to feel if the male is over a year old!