I want to breed some rats and euthanize with CO2, but my step dad says hit the heads

So yeah... I have a good collection of ball pythons now that all eat different sized rodents. So my step dad suggested me to breed my own rats and I do want to do this, but when I mentioned euthanizing with the co2 he said "just hold them by the tail and bang there heads on something" and I pointed out the humane way is with co2 and he said "grow a pair and just bang there heads" so does anybody have any advice on how to get him to understand? Alright now about the co2 chamber, can someone give me a link with plans to build one? Thank you.

If you do it correctly your stepdads method is just as humane imo. Whether its boppin them on the head or cervical dislocation.

Sorry i cant be of much help, i kinda just agree with him haha.

Ugh, I can't do the whacking method either - aside from the squick factor, my aim is terrible.

You don't have to go all fancy with a CO2 chamber. A plastic bin (like a storage tote), a small kritter keeper, and a quick trip to your local grocery store for a cheap hunk of dry ice is all you need. Dry ice in the kritter keeper, keeper in the tub, rats in the tub. Close the lid and give it like... 15-20 minutes.

I have no problem killing them that way, I just figure it would be cleaner and more humane using co2.

Personally, I find bashing heads inhumane. You really have to be spot on and have enough force to smash the skull. If you feel uncomfortable doing it, you'll probably find yourself not hitting hard enough and/or missing, which will not kill the animal on the first hit. That would be inhumane. Just go with the dry ice in a container method. Its cleaner and easier.

Here is a sticky thread in the DIY section with instructions on how to construct your own co2 chamber.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?55509-My-Feeder-Euthanizer-(DIY-CO2-chamber)

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What about with a paintball gun co2 bottle? I used to play paintball alont and I have a couple 20 oz co2 tanks laying around. Ive read about people making chambers with them but I have no idea how. Any ideas?

No, too much risk in doing it wrong. Plus you'd have to restrain them somehow, which is frightening to them. Much more frightening than just putting them in a container and letting them go to sleep.
I use a co2 chamber. I used to go the dry ice route, but it's banned where I live. Dumb college students making bombs out of it and whatnot. It's much more expensive to buy dry ice every time you need it than just constructing a chamber.

The co2 container
http://www.amazon.com/Pure-Energy-40...7&keywords=co2
Remote coil (you can just get some tubing and a valve and do it yourself for much cheaper, but I'm not handy so I bought one of these)
http://www.amazon.com/UFD-Coiled-Rem...ds=remote+coil

Get a small sterilite container for the chamber, some small aquarium tubing and a plastic container filled with water for the oxygen escape, and you have yourself a great humane way to euthanize that will last.

http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/y..._6201191_o.jpg

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Originally Posted by kdreptiles

No, too much risk in doing it wrong. Plus you'd have to restrain them somehow, which is frightening to them. Much more frightening than just putting them in a container and letting them go to sleep.
I use a co2 chamber. I used to go the dry ice route, but it's banned where I live. Dumb college students making bombs out of it and whatnot. It's much more expensive to buy dry ice every time you need it than just constructing a chamber.

The co2 container
http://www.amazon.com/Pure-Energy-40...7&keywords=co2
Remote coil (you can just get some tubing and a valve and do it yourself for much cheaper, but I'm not handy so I bought one of these)
http://www.amazon.com/UFD-Coiled-Rem...ds=remote+coil

Get a small sterilite container for the chamber, some small aquarium tubing and a plastic container filled with water for the oxygen escape, and you have yourself a great humane way to euthanize that will last.

http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/y..._6201191_o.jpg

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so the small container on the right is full of water, or partial? (thanks for sharing) :D

CO2 set ups are not expensive, I paid $20 for an aluminum 10lb tank, $3.50 for a tub, a few bucks for the quick connections.
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...r/PICT6862.jpg

Just remember that CO2 can be inhumane too if done incorrectly. Any method that kills painlessly or instantly is humane. If you do cervical dislocation properly, or bash their skull, it's instant. If you use CO2 properly, it's painless.

I will say if you plan on killing any number of rats in a single day, go with CO2. If you get tired doing manual killings, you're going to possibly get sloppy and then you can mess up. CO2 means you can do a large number all at once, neat and tidy. Just remember to introduce SOME of the CO2, then flood it(with CO2) once the rats look asleep.

I will say that it's not more "manly" to use a more messy brutal method to kill an animal. Use whichever method is best for you in ensuring a humane death and ignore the rest.

Maybe it's just me and my technique but the bash the head method always results in bleeding from the nose. Can't deal with the mess. I just use CO2 now.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

CO2 set ups are not expensive, I paid $20 for an aluminum 10lb tank, $3.50 for a tub, a few bucks for the quick connections.
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...r/PICT6862.jpg

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Is that on a bed lmao?

Whacking or cervical dislocation is frightening to the animal even when done correctly because you are either restraining it tightly and/or whipping it through the air. Done incorrectly, it would be incredibly painful and terrifying.

CO2 (done correctly) knocks them out quickly and without them even realizing something is happening. I've even seen it done (by priming the chamber beforehand) where they are unconscious within a second or two. It's also a lot harder to do wrong.

The other thing about whacking is that it can get very messy. I'm no longer going to be buying from a local breeder I just recently got some rats from because there is always a bloody mess when I thaw, and he told me that's how he "euthanizes" (I put quotes around it because euthanize means PAINLESS death). It's really gross rinsing them off and it makes me not want to hold my snakes without giving them a bath first because any blood left is surely rubbing off on them! With CO2, you MIGHT have a slight amount come from the nose, but I found that if you put them in the fridge for a few hours first, then freeze them, you don't get the bloody nose.

But what about the connections. I have no idea what to use as a release valve and what kind of tubing? Also how would I get an airtight seal on the tub so that way my co2 wouldn't escape

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Is that on a bed lmao?

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Yes Mike, it was just assembled and clean still, lol. No rats had been in it or around it.
Besides the blanket thrown on the bed was a old one I didn't use anymore :P

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Originally Posted by californiakingsnake

But what about the connections. I have no idea what to use as a release valve and what kind of tubing? Also how would I get an airtight seal on the tub so that way my co2 wouldn't escape

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quick connect valves, air tubing like you'd use on an air compressor.
The tub needs a tiny hole to release air when the co2 enters.

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Originally Posted by Sita

Whacking or cervical dislocation is frightening to the animal even when done correctly because you are either restraining it tightly and/or whipping it through the air. Done incorrectly, it would be incredibly painful and terrifying.

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I wonder who you saw, using either method correctly, that led you to this conclusion. I have used both methods and I assure you the rodent has no time to be frightened, terrified or in pain. Til the moment of impact I'm just relocating them for a routine cleaning as far as they're concerned.

Some of them will bleed from the nose if you hit them in the head to kill them, and the mess this makes should not be understated--that may be your best argument for step dad. If he says you could do it over a plastic bag, the reflexive kicking some of them do will ensure that the mess goes everywhere.

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Originally Posted by JohnNJ

Maybe it's just me and my technique but the bash the head method always results in bleeding from the nose. Can't deal with the mess. I just use CO2 now.

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When you use this method toss your euthanized in a tub or bucket for a couple minutes, it doesn't take long at all for the blood to coagulate.

Well the OP mentioned getting rat blood all over the snake when the rodent was thawed later if it bled when killed.

They can bleed a amazing amount, even if they're basically brain dead already. But yes, it's basically instant when done right. If you're doing cervical dislocation, there's no real need to "restrain them tightly" for more than an instant. So it's a slight squeeze and snap. If whacking, you're not swinging the rat around in circles... it's a quick short swing and whack. Again.. it's an instant.

Some of these make me laugh. CO2 or cracking their melon are both fine with me. But a rat being terrified by getting whipped through the air has to be better than watching something crawl up to you, bite you, and then proceed to squeeze the life out of you. If it were me I would pick the rollercoaster ride.

If you want to use CO2 then do it. Your dad is not trying to stop you, he just suggested another way right?

I tried cervical dislocation and 'bopping.' I failed miserably at both. The poor thing seized up, then hopped back onto its feet. In the meantime, my snake quickly and happily killed a mouse in half a second. I stick with feeding live. Yeah you have to watch to make sure they don't bite your snake, but its not hard to keep them from doing that.

I know live feeding wasn't something you were considering, but if your not sure you can whack them good, its absolutely AWFUL to not quite get them good enough and watch them suffer. Imo, forget his judgement and build the chamber.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

If you do it correctly your stepdads method is just as humane imo. Whether its boppin them on the head or cervical dislocation.

Sorry i cant be of much help, i kinda just agree with him haha.

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Just like little bunny foo foo, scoopin up the field mice and boppin em on the head.


This way is quick too, and much easier. You hit them hard enough and after one bonk, they are gone just like that. Technically its probably not "humane" when a bp bites them and then chokes them off. But, I'm sure this will be a higlhy debatable topic. To each his or her own. :)
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I use the cervical dislocation method. It's easy to do. I learned on my own after getting a basic desription. You don't have to restrain them. Just take them out of the tub by the tail then let them try and get away on a flat service, while still holding their tail. Take a screw driver and quickly pin them down right behind the head on their neck and pull up at an angle on their tale. You'll hear/feel the break in their neck. Your first time, I would pin them down a little bit harder with the screw driver until you get a feel for things and how much force is actually required. If you don't push down hard enough and they squeeze out, you'll have a very angry mouse that is prone to bite. Which is understandable, but still no fun and makes it harder to do the deed. I have to warn you though, I have had times when they've bled after i euthanized them. I think it was because I pulled to hard though. Only twice out of over 40 euthanizations. Sorry for the ramble(:

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Originally Posted by KMG

Some of these make me laugh. CO2 or cracking their melon are both fine with me. But a rat being terrified by getting whipped through the air has to be better than watching something crawl up to you, bite you, and then proceed to squeeze the life out of you. If it were me I would pick the rollercoaster ride.

If you want to use CO2 then do it. Your dad is not trying to stop you, he just suggested another way right?

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It wasnt a suggest, it was a "grow a pair and just do it" kind of thing.

I have done cervical dislocation, 'bopping' and CO2 (via dry ice). Normally I wack them, but most the time they bleed from the nose. And sometimes, no matter how good you are you will mess up. I am switching to CO2 (with a tank). It is the most peaceful in my opinion, with little to no blood. I did have one rat bleed a little from the nose once. But the other five in that group didn't. All three ways work, it is up to what you are most comfortable with.

when doing large numbers co2 is a lot easier and quicker