The Sad Side to Breeding (Graphic)

We had our first major deformities "hatch". Clutch #9 of the season was a female Spider x male Pied. She gave us 3 "good" eggs, a boob that went bad and a slug. About a month into incubation we candled the eggs and one embryo just didn't look right. Yesterday we cut the clutch on day 55 and found one severely deformed baby that we decided euthanized right away and, after checking on them today, a second one with out eyes. The third seems to be ok.


Deformed baby -

http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/IMG_9571.jpg

http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/IMG_9574.jpg

In this picture you can see where the vent is on the lower left side
http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/IMG_9575.jpg



Baby that is still in the egg with out eyes -

http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/IMG_9577.jpg

http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/IMG_9576.jpg


We're not sure what the future holds for the eye-less hatchling but we'll definitely give it a chance. The little guy is alert and flicking it's tongue. I don't believe this to be an incubation issue as we had a perfectly healthy clutch come out last week.

there is someone on here with an older eyeless bp. it seems to be doing well, so I would say keep it. but, it's up to you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 4Ballz

there is someone on here with an older eyeless bp. it seems to be doing well, so I would say keep it. but, it's up to you.

---

Thanks, I'll look it up. I also remember seeing a video of one eating just fine.

Yes, Angllady2 has an eyeless adult. That is alive and well. Poor little guy, sorry about your loss. Hope your little eyeless guy thrives and does well for you!

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

We have an eyeless burm that hatched out last month, and he is eating just as well as his two eyed siblings. I've this one a chance, you'll be amazed at how well s/he might do. It would make someone an amazing pet, for sure.

I'm sorry to hear about the deformed baby. Is this a female you have bred before? How about the male? Might be something genetic with either of them, but no way to know for sure unless you breed them again.

Sorry about the babies.
Question about babies with no eyes. When people say they have a no eyed baby, and it's eating and making a great pet. Why could you not breed it if it was a healthy snake? Would the offspring be at a greater risk to have no eyes as well? Just wondering.

I saw an eyeless STP not long ago, the owner said it was doing well and eating like a champ. I wouldnt mind taking him off your hands ;) lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1nstinct

Sorry about the babies.
Question about babies with no eyes. When people say they have a no eyed baby, and it's eating and making a great pet. Why could you not breed it if it was a healthy snake? Would the offspring be at a greater risk to have no eyes as well? Just wondering.

---

I would think so. It could be due to problems with the egg itself, or it could be genetic. Why take the risk? Especially since abnormalities are something all breeders should try their best to remove from the gene pool. In fact, if that pairing were to throw anymore clutches similar to this, I would also think of retiring the pair if they were mine (Not saying you should!)

It's just a risk, and not worth it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by heathers*bps

We have an eyeless burm that hatched out last month, and he is eating just as well as his two eyed siblings. I've this one a chance, you'll be amazed at how well s/he might do. It would make someone an amazing pet, for sure.

I'm sorry to hear about the deformed baby. Is this a female you have bred before? How about the male? Might be something genetic with either of them, but no way to know for sure unless you breed them again.

---

This was the first time these two were paired up. The male gave us 10 perfect babies from an earlier clutch this year but last season the female gave us a clutch of two "boob" eggs and a few slugs. The babies were ok though very small. However the tiny one didn't thrive and ended up dieing. But the other was a fire spider which is doing great today.

We are going to give this girl a year off then have to make the tough decision to try breeding her again or not. We won't pair these two up again either. She is a beautiful spider but it's not worth it if she produces unhealthy babies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1nstinct

Sorry about the babies.
Question about babies with no eyes. When people say they have a no eyed baby, and it's eating and making a great pet. Why could you not breed it if it was a healthy snake? Would the offspring be at a greater risk to have no eyes as well? Just wondering.

---

I wouldn't breed it due to the chance it would pass on the deformity. We will most likely sell the healthy one from this clutch as a "pet only".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jsmorphs2

Thanks, I'll look it up. I also remember seeing a video of one eating just fine.

---

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...Reptiles/page2

And Sloan Reptiles Albino spinner which seems to be doing good https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...11597588_o.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1nstinct

Sorry about the babies.
Question about babies with no eyes. When people say they have a no eyed baby, and it's eating and making a great pet. Why could you not breed it if it was a healthy snake? Would the offspring be at a greater risk to have no eyes as well? Just wondering.

---

Why would you possibly breed an animal with birth defects?

Even though likely caused by a spike in incubator temps - why chance it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deborah

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...Reptiles/page2
]

---

Thanks :). And I posted on that thread too..:rolleyes: :P

Yeah and not to mention snakes already don't see super well. Their number one sense is smell and feeling vibrations on the ground. Honestly albinos even have worse vision. They're practically blind. That's why snakes sometimes mistake your hand for food lol. The baby should be alright. Best of luck to you! Happy Herping!

Good on you for giving the little blind guy a chance! I'd love to buy that little guy from you as well! I don't think I could breed because of things like this.

:( That is sad. I hope the rest all do fine for you!

Dealing with this right now myself--a clutch of 4 small eggs that collapsed early on, and just wouldn't absorb moisture and plump back up. 3 hatching babies have already died, and spinal deformities were present. Only one left, now. He's breathing, but so were the other 3...all I can do is hope he manages to absorb his yolk, and make it. It's just something that has to be accepted...they won't all make it.

Little "no eyes" is out of the egg and is completely normal otherwise. I was glad to see it wasn't kinked or anything. It's next big step is feeding.

http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/IMG_9587.jpg

http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/IMG_9582.jpg



And the normal het pied clutch mate -

http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/IMG_9581.jpg

how did you euthanize the deformed baby? i wouldn't know what method to use because it is so...blobby....

other babies look great, even little blindy :)

Yes. I have an eyeless adult female that is now over 1000 grams.

It was also my misfortune to have a temp spike cause eyelessness in three out of ten babies from my long awaited fire clutch. I plan to give the eyeless babies every chance, seeing as I already have one and she's fantastic. I have a number of people who desire to adopt the eyeless babies if they do well, and I would like to think my frequent posts about my adult girl have some small part in that.

I am sorry for your losses, I know how hard it has been for me. I hope your little one does well, please let us know if it eats.

Gale

A warning--some eyeless or one-eye individuals have other problems that don't become apparent until they are older. Some may die with no prior symptoms, within their first few years. I suspect it is probably due to a defect in their heart, due to the suddenness and lack of any signs of a problem.

I recommend folks raising them keep this in mind, so they won't be too devastated if it happens, and I tell folks who adopt them from me that this risk exists.

I have a one eyed snake whom was also a birth defect {one eye and a way too short tongue} (twin snake two in one egg one normal one tiny and one eyed) She is 4 years now and healthy just over 1000 gms she is a great feeder and an ever better pet she is perhaps the calmest snake I have ever handled. I would suggest that your too need to be given a fighting chance they adjust very well she may yet surprise you.

http://images56.fotki.com/v371/photo...7b_8151-vi.jpgHosted on Fotki

Love the special needs babies! Hope the feeding goes well!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hypersomniacjoo

how did you euthanize the deformed baby? i wouldn't know what method to use because it is so...blobby....

other babies look great, even little blindy :)

---

Cervical dislocation :(. It was the quickest way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by angllady2

Yes. I have an eyeless adult female that is now over 1000 grams.

It was also my misfortune to have a temp spike cause eyelessness in three out of ten babies from my long awaited fire clutch. I plan to give the eyeless babies every chance, seeing as I already have one and she's fantastic. I have a number of people who desire to adopt the eyeless babies if they do well, and I would like to think my frequent posts about my adult girl have some small part in that.

I am sorry for your losses, I know how hard it has been for me. I hope your little one does well, please let us know if it eats.

Gale

---

I re-read your post about your girl. It still amazes me that they can do ok.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

A warning--some eyeless or one-eye individuals have other problems that don't become apparent until they are older. Some may die with no prior symptoms, within their first few years. I suspect it is probably due to a defect in their heart, due to the suddenness and lack of any signs of a problem.

I recommend folks raising them keep this in mind, so they won't be too devastated if it happens, and I tell folks who adopt them from me that this risk exists.

---

Thank you for the heads up. I will keep that in mind. It would be tough to lose a pet suddenly after they've endure so much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kitedemon

I have a one eyed snake whom was also a birth defect {one eye and a way too short tongue} (twin snake two in one egg one normal one tiny and one eyed) She is 4 years now and healthy just over 1000 gms she is a great feeder and an ever better pet she is perhaps the calmest snake I have ever handled. I would suggest that your too need to be given a fighting chance they adjust very well she may yet surprise you.

http://images56.fotki.com/v371/photo...7b_8151-vi.jpgHosted on Fotki

---

Awe, that's awesome :).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mbgirl17

Love the special needs babies! Hope the feeding goes well!

---

Thanks!

Well she shed yesterday and ate today :) so I hope she continues to do well. I'll update pics soon too.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

That's awesome!! So glad she ate! Fingers crossed she thrives. Something in my heart always goes out to the ones that need extra love. :)

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

Yay! Thats awesome that she ate! Glad shes doing well!