injured or birth defect?

I was picking up some rats to feed my snakes from a store not too long ago and they asked if I wanted to have a BP they couldn't sell. it was a baby about 2 months old with it's spine was messed up, not sure if it was birth defect or injury in transport. they say it still eats and defecates, and it wasn't guarding itself or jumping when i ran my fingers along the body. I wanted to take it in, but I couldn't :(

what do you think it wrong with it or should be done for the little guy?

when they set it down, it's body immediately rolled over to this
http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/...ols/snake1.jpg

you could feel the spine pressing down on the belly where it seems to invert down
http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/...ols/snake4.jpg

http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/...ols/snake3.jpg

Wow that looks really painful! Poor guy! I would personally euthanize but I'm not an expert. Interested in what others have to say

as am I. I almost wish I could go back and take it off their hands and take it to a vet, but that takes money I already don't have much of just to get an eval and opinion

In my most honest opinion i would take the snake off their hands and cull it. I cant see how it could live a good life like that. I highly doubt that snake is eating and defacating fine, but i could be wrong.

I go there often for rats and they know me, so I don't see why he would lie to me about that when they are offering to give it to me for free and not wanting to put it down. he said they would have already if it wasn't eating and passing the food.

Quote:

---

In my most honest opinion i would take the snake off their hands and cull it..

---

x2. It may even be eating and defecating, but no way could it survive with that to adulthood. I would take it and cull it myself. It's free.

It should be euthanized. I understand you can't go to a vet so you have two optioNs if you take it. Cut it's head off or freeze it. Now the freeze it thing is controversial because it's said to be inhumane; however, it's not easy to kill something you're so passionate about. Really they need to be euthanized through a euthanizing formula injected by a professional, but is not cheap. So don't hate me for saying freezing it is an option, but I don't think I could chop the head off of something I loved or had pity for. I would think some would understand

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike41793

In my most honest opinion i would take the snake off their hands and cull it. I cant see how it could live a good life like that. I highly doubt that snake is eating and defacating fine, but i could be wrong.

---

Kinda my thoughts right there. :(

I do wonder a couple things, though. Why were they trying to sell this snake? I'm sorry, but I have to wonder about a place that would try to sell an animal like this. Also, did they get this poor guy in on a shipment from a breeder or did they breed it themselves? If it was from a breeder I would certainly like to know who that breeder is so I can avoid them if they are shipping animals like this. If it is an injury from in the store, what vet said this little guy was good to go? I could go on here.

At least they are offering it up for free to someone who cares, but sight unseen (besides the pics), I can't imagine him having a good quality of life and probably needs put down.

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MorphMaster

It should be euthanized. I understand you can't go to a vet so you have two optioNs if you take it. Cut it's head off or freeze it. Now the freeze it thing is controversial because it's said to be inhumane; however, it's not easy to kill something you're so passionate about. Really they need to be euthanized through a euthanizing formula injected by a professional, but is not cheap. So don't hate me for saying freezing it is an option, but I don't think I could chop the head off of something I loved or had pity for. I would think some would understand

---

No, no, no, no!!! Freezing is NOT an acceptable method for euthanization. That is cruelty, plain and simple. If you're going to put it down, either pony up the cash for a vet to do or man up and do it humanely. End of story. These are all part of being a responsible owner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AK907

I do wonder a couple things, though. Why were they trying to sell this snake? I'm sorry, but I have to wonder about a place that would try to sell an animal like this. Also, did they get this poor guy in on a shipment from a breeder or did they breed it themselves? If it was from a breeder I would certainly like to know who that breeder is so I can avoid them if they are shipping animals like this. If it is an injury from in the store, what vet said this little guy was good to go? I could go on here.

---

they weren't trying to sell it because the obvious, they had it in a tub in the back. the guy I talked to said he was on vacation but thinks it was injured in transit from the breeder they get it from. it does raise a question of why they would accept it like that and maybe there was actually an accident at the store. they didn't have a reptile vet look at it, but one that comes in for the other animals suggested to put it down.

it's just kinda painful to know what is probably the best option for the overall quality of the snake.

It's not just me. Man Up?! You think everybody has a butchers knife?! Snakes move. What if you miss?! What if the knife was too dull?! Big breeders do it. I know it's inhumane, but is it worse then living a life like that?! Answer that question carefully sir!
And don't you condemn me! I raise my animals with quality and care! I guess you also didn't know that im14

Why in the world has the store not culled the animal already? If it were me I would call the humane society and report it to them and send the pictures. Might make the store think twice about what they are doing. Also, I don't think I would be patronizing that store anymore if that is their way of operating a business. Just my $0.02

We unfortunately hatched a clutch of burms that quite a few were kinked like that. We culled them, as that is what the most humane thing to do was. I truly believe that snake needs to be euthanized :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MorphMaster

It's not just me. Man Up?! You think everybody has a butchers knife?! Snakes move. What if you miss?! What if the knife was too dull?! Big breeders do it. I know it's inhumane, but is it worse then living a life like that?! Answer that question carefully sir!
And don't you condemn me! I raise my animals with quality and care! I guess you also didn't know that im14

---

Yup, man up. If you can't humanely and efficiently cull an animal yourself, then you need to have someone who can do it for you. That includes being proficient enough with a blade if you choose to decapitate them. There are many other options to humanely euthanize a snake besides just a knife, ya know? I'm also going to assume that all of us here have access to a decent knife. They aren't exactly a rare item as you implied. How about a heavy duty pair of scissors? Hmm... I will not go further into methods of euthanasia. Consult a vet.

So yes, I will most definitely look down upon anyone who freezes their snakes to death. That includes shady big breeders. Just because they might do it, doesn't make it right. Sure it beats living a long life of pain, but we have many other options to provide a swifter death.

I don't really care how old you are, but your immaturity shows with posts like that.

I've deployed twice overseas as an infantry medic, I can stomach blood and know how to use a knife. I still have my aid bag filled with required supplies.

I know what you're saying. Already said freezing wasn't humane, but you can't tell me cutting the head off a snake is easy. You're vilipending that. I'd like to know of other ways to euthanize and honestly I'd probably just use co2. But you're probably gonna say that isn't right too

Is there any therapy that can be done to the snake?

Not that I know of. It appears kinked and thats just a deformity. Isn't anything you can do therapeutically. It'd take a major operation to fix it and even so. Snakes don't do well when they are put under. I don't remember the chance of survival, but I know it's low

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MorphMaster

Not that I know of. It appears kinked and thats just a deformity. Isn't anything you can do therapeutically. It'd take a major operation to fix it and even so. Snakes don't do well when they are put under. I don't remember the chance of survival, but I know it's low

---

that's so sad, I wonder if it was born that way or injured as a hatching :(

You know what never mind on the euthanizing thing! I know, I know, I know! I've never had to do it though so I'm talking from inexperience, but also for compassion to those that couldn't.

- - - Updated - - -

It appears like it was born that way! I don't know how the depression in the middle could have occurred by somebody's hands. It is just a defect where the unicellular organism developed improperly toa multicellular organism. Could have been a temp spike.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MorphMaster

I know what you're saying. Already said freezing wasn't humane, but you can't tell me cutting the head off a snake is easy. You're vilipending that. I'd like to know of other ways to euthanize and honestly I'd probably just use co2. But you're probably gonna say that isn't right too

---

First, grow up, man. Seriously.

I NEVER said it was or wasn't going to be easy, that is why I made it VERY clear that if you can't or have any doubts about your ability to do it yourself efficiently, then you owe it to the animal to have someone who can do it. Just because you don't feel comfortable doing it, doesn't make it alright to resort to cruelty. And yes, I have culled snakes by way of decapitation. It really isn't hard, you just have to use common sense. Restrain the snake, cut. Simple process.

Well isn't it tough getting through the spine?! Again haven't done it so I'd like to learn. No hard feelings and really I'm not a pion. I just can't picture it being so quickand painless to the animal

I feel so bad for that snake. Is the dry ice process that is suggested for rodents an acceptable practice for choosing to euthanize a snake?

That's what I was wondering. Still haven't gotten a response to that though

Do not freeze that poor thing to death!!! What a terrible way to go. Culling is a part of life with animal ownership, and breeding. No its not fun, no its not easy, but sometimes it has to be done. And done humanely.

I think this is one of those time. :( Like Mike said, I can't see that thing surviving into adulthood like that. I can't imagine its really eating and pooping.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2ng

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AK907

First, grow up, man. Seriously.

I NEVER said it was or wasn't going to be easy, that is why I made it VERY clear that if you can't or have any doubts about your ability to do it yourself efficiently, then you owe it to the animal to have someone who can do it. Just because you don't feel comfortable doing it, doesn't make it alright to resort to cruelty. And yes, I have culled snakes by way of decapitation. It really isn't hard, you just have to use common sense. Restrain the snake, cut. Simple process.

---

Folks. You are getting way off from the original issue. This should not be the OP's problem nor should we as a community start going after one another. The issue here is the animal's welfare which isn't/hasn't been addressed by either the store nor the person who sent it to them, assuming this was not an injury sustained in shipping. To me the spine looks inverted in two places and kinked severally in a third as well as a swollen area. I have a hard time believing it would have been sent this way but be that as it may, the responsibility lies with the store now. To the OP, If you do not want to take on the responsibility of euthanizing the snake and don't think you can convince the store to do so, then you may want to contact an organization that will see the anima'ls needs are met. If you feel like you can perform euthanasia, then either decapitation or a blow with an instrument such a sa hammer, that would instantly crush the skull and brains would likely be the quickest and most humane options. I am sorry that for your compasion, you find yourself in the middle of this.

Ya I am sorry too. I guess I trilled a bit lol. I did answer some questions at least lol. But really I'm just trying to learn like so many others and euthanasia is something I have no experience in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MorphMaster

Well isn't it tough getting through the spine?! Again haven't done it so I'd like to learn. No hard feelings and really I'm not a pion. I just can't picture it being so quickand painless to the animal

---

No not at all as long as the knife is sharp. The quickest and most humane method imo.

Think about if you could pick how you'd wanna die. Freezing to death is a very slow and painful process. An efficient, guillotine style decapitation would be much quicker and much less painful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Talae

I feel so bad for that snake. Is the dry ice process that is suggested for rodents an acceptable practice for choosing to euthanize a snake?

---

Dry ice has not been a recommended practice for euthanizing rodents in a while. Too slow and not very humane. If you don't have access to CO2 you can do it this way, but it wouldn't be my first choice. Just remember that CO2 is heavier that air and any snake/rodent you're trying to euthanize needs to be below the dry ice, in an airtight container where the animal can't come in contact with the ice.

I was thinking this sticky myself (if it would work for a snake, don't see why not): http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...and-Humane-too
The pet store should have it put down this animal down when they received it instead of trying to pawn it off on you, OP. :(

Culling a snake with c02 can be very hard because they can hold their breath for a very long time...


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MorphMaster

I know what you're saying. Already said freezing wasn't humane, but you can't tell me cutting the head off a snake is easy. You're vilipending that. I'd like to know of other ways to euthanize and honestly I'd probably just use co2. But you're probably gonna say that isn't right too

---

If I were forced to cull a snake, having seen how long they can go on, decaptitated, I'd smash its head with a brick.

Instant death and hard to miss.

Poor little snake.

:tears:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Salamander

If I were forced to cull a snake, having seen how long they can go on, decaptitated, I'd smash its head with a brick.

Instant death and hard to miss.

Poor little snake.

:tears:

---

I believe thats why culling is usually followed by pithing...

To the OP, the snake doesn't look like it would live a quality life if it were to continue living. I agree with the others that it should be euthanized. If you don't have money to put it down at a vet, perhaps take the snake to a reptile rescue or aspca?
They should have means of humanely putting down the snake w/o charging you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MorphMaster

It should be euthanized. I understand you can't go to a vet so you have two optioNs if you take it. Cut it's head off or freeze it. Now the freeze it thing is controversial because it's said to be inhumane; however, it's not easy to kill something you're so passionate about. Really they need to be euthanized through a euthanizing formula injected by a professional, but is not cheap. So don't hate me for saying freezing it is an option, but I don't think I could chop the head off of something I loved or had pity for. I would think some would understand

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MorphMaster

It's not just me. Man Up?! You think everybody has a butchers knife?! Snakes move. What if you miss?! What if the knife was too dull?! Big breeders do it. I know it's inhumane, but is it worse then living a life like that?! Answer that question carefully sir!
And don't you condemn me! I raise my animals with quality and care! I guess you also didn't know that im14

---

I'm not picking at you Morphmaster, but just addressing some of your concerns.

Decapitation is not an accepted form of euthanasia in snakes.
The decapitated head is scientifically known to still be alive and aware when separated from the body well past the time of cut off. The head can fully feel everything.


Freezing is inhumane and cruel. It can take a reptile hours before it finally dies in a freezer.
Have you ever stuck your hand in a bucket of ice for an extended period of time? It's painful and not a pleasant feeling at all.
I was just digging in a cooler for less than a minute earlier today, and it was terribly uncomfortable. Can you imagine doing that for hours? Ouch! :(

As a pet owner, people have to be prepared to cull or euthanize their animals. Injury, illness, or defects aren't pretty, but sometimes require humane euthanasia. I would like to think most if not all of us take quality care of our animals, but sometimes it's more humane to instantly euthanize an animal on the spot than drive it to a vet.
You have to evaluate the quality of life the animal is living or will live.
If any of my animals couldn't live a quality life and I had no means to a vet or perhaps the animal was severely injured and needed to be put down right away, I would definitely euthanize them myself to end their suffering. They are my animals and I want the best for them. I don't want them to suffer. If that means that I have to suck it up and do it myself. Yes. I will do it without a thought. I'm not comfortable with putting down animals, but sometimes it has to be done for the good of the animal. I would feel worse if the animal lived and suffered more just because I couldn't euthanize it.