cheap morphs worth breeding

I am going to start breeding ball pythons but I can only spend about $300 for the snakes so I was thinking of finding a 100% het male of some sort and just a normal female and hoping for the best. I would like to get a pair that is already old enough to breed as well. If anyone can recommend any cheaper popular morphs and where I can buy them mature that would be awesome or any other suggestions in starting to breed ball pythons.

A 100% Het Male to a Normal female will result in Non-visual morphs. Meaning: They will ALL look normal.

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Originally Posted by Vasiliki

A 100% Het Male to a Normal female will result in Non-visual morphs. Meaning: They will ALL look normal.

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Wouldn't all the normal babies also only be 50% possible het? Still new to the genetics so feel free to correct me.

One does not simply breed ball pythons.
http://www.memecreator.org/static/im...lates/1620.jpg

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

Wouldn't all the normal babies also only be 50% possible het? Still new to the genetics so feel free to correct me.

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Correct:gj:

I'd start with taking care of 1 female for a couple years first. Once you've got that under your belt then worry about breeding.

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

Wouldn't all the normal babies also only be 50% possible het? Still new to the genetics so feel free to correct me.

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Yes, you are correct. But given the person's understanding of genetics, I wanted to make it as basic as possible. Meaning:

A 50% Possible Het will visually look like a Normal. And if they want to produce Morphs, then a 100% Het Male to a Normal Female will not result in visual morphs.

As to the OP, I would suggest spending your money on a nice female 2012 morph, and raising her for a year or so then getting a single gene morph (or double, depending on how much money you've saved up) male. Then when the girl is at breeding age and the boy, you'll have 2-3 years of bp husbandry under your belt. Jumping in head first to breeding probably isn't the best idea. But if you're determined to start breeding next season...pastels are pretty cheap in comparison...Adults / proven breeders will always run you more than juvies/hatchlings. If you are mostly interested in recessive morphs (albino, axanthic, clown, etc) make sure you buy hets from a reputable breeder so your 100% het doesn't turn out to be a dud. Sorry I couldn't be of more help, I'm a newbie myself. Though I would love to start breeding NOW...I am making myself wait and make sure I know what I'm doing and have a good grasp on husbandry etc before attempting to meddle in their lives. I wish you the best in whatever road you take :)

@Vasiliki - Gotcha, was just making sure I understood correctly as well. :D

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Originally Posted by chimp54321

I am going to start breeding ball pythons but I can only spend about $300 for the snakes so I was thinking of finding a 100% het male of some sort and just a normal female and hoping for the best. I would like to get a pair that is already old enough to breed as well. If anyone can recommend any cheaper popular morphs and where I can buy them mature that would be awesome or any other suggestions in starting to breed ball pythons.

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I'm not trying to put you down or your ambitions, but I have a few questions. The fact you're asking us about breeding cheap morphs as soon as possible is a little concerning. Or at least in my opinion.
Do you have any snakes already? Do you have Ball Python experience?
What kind of husbandry and set up are you practicing? Quarantine?
Do you have a plan for the eggs once they're laid?

For $300 you're not going to have much of a selection.
You can get an adult female normal $100-150. You can get a male pastel hatchling/well started for $75-125. Males take less time to mature, so if you get a hatchling, he could probably start breeding in a few months.
This renders you 50% normal, 50% pastel babies.
Nobody wants 50% het normal babies. Especially males. It's not worth breeding 50% and gambling time and money away when there are 100% hets on the market for pretty cheap already.
What are you going to do with the hatchlings if you can't sell them? You have to be prepared to house and keep them if you can't re-home them.

But regardless of what you get, it sounds like you're not ready to breed. Breeding snakes is not an instant thing, it takes patience. Lots and lots of patience.
Even if you get a pair for your budget, it doesn't mean either the male or female will breed.

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Originally Posted by satomi325

I'm not trying to put you down or your ambitions, but I have a few questions. The fact you're asking us about breeding cheap morphs as soon as possible is a little concerning. Or at least in my opinion.
Do you have any snakes already? Do you have Ball Python experience?
What kind of husbandry and set up are you practicing? Quarantine?
Do you have a plan for the eggs once they're laid?

For $300 you're not going to have much of a selection.
You can get an adult female normal $100-150. You can get a male pastel hatchling/well started for $75-125. Males take less time to mature, so if you get a hatchling, he could probably start breeding in a few months.
This renders you 50% normal, 50% pastel babies.
Nobody wants 50% het normal babies. Especially males. It's not worth breeding 50% and gambling time and money away when there are 100% hets on the market for pretty cheap already.
What are you going to do with the hatchlings if you can't sell them? You have to be prepared to house and keep them if you can't re-home them.

But regardless of what you get, it sounds like you're not ready to breed. Breeding snakes is not an instant thing, it takes patience. Lots and lots of patience.
Even if you get a pair for your budget, it doesn't mean either the male or female will breed.

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Wow, this site is awesome as far as response goes, I appreciate all the suggestions. I do have BP experience, I had one all through high school as well as anoles, geckos, corn snake, water dragon and an iguana with a 6 ft by 6ft by 3 ft deep enclosure which was amazing! I really just want to breed for the experience mostly and it would be nice to sell some, I have a bunch of space for the operation so I'll probably do some sort of rack system for the hatchlings. I understand to ease into it because I have to anyways to save for an incubator and such. Let's say I was to drop $500 on the snakes as babies would I be able to sell them easier?

Something has to be corrected, even if I might appear as a smart ass. A Pastel for example, is heterozygous for Super Pastel. For sure, no one would call a Pastel 100% het., but yeah, it still is. Every inheritance type has a heterozygous and a homozygous form, no matter if it is recessive, dominant, incomplete dominant or codominant.

I just want to have this corrected for the new ones.

Max

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Originally Posted by chimp54321

Let's say I was to drop $500 on the snakes as babies would I be able to sell them easier?

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This should not be your first concern. If you wanna make money just get a job. It is honestly coming across like youre just trying to make a quick buck. If those are your intentions you wont last very long in this hobby. Im not trying to be rude, im being blunt because it really does sound like the money is all youre concerned about right now and im worried about what will happen when you get bored of the snakes after you get them.

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Originally Posted by chimp54321

Let's say I was to drop $500 on the snakes as babies would I be able to sell them easier?

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Depends. First off, if you really want to breed you should be prepared to keep any babies you produce. A morph might be hot one year, and then when the market is saturated the next year you can barely move them. Best choice is to choose a morph you like looking at, and then find the very best example you possibly can to breed. That is whats going to help you move your animals. A+ morphs of any price range sell. Better to buy a lower end morph thats the best youve seen than to get a slightly less common morph thats average quality.

I do not breed. However, if I did, I would approach the situation a little differently.

1. Look at Ball Pythons. I mean really look. Start hanging out here, so that you can visually find what appeals to you. Do NOT focus on the cost right now. Focus on what you LIKE.

2. Get familiar with genetics. I don't mean just kind of. I mean really research it, to the point that you can almost do them in your head. If you look at a snake that's a common morph, or a common double-combo, you should be able to identify it. I feel like this is important, because people will not take you seriously if you ask: "What's that?" and it's something basic. I don't want to buy from a breeder who doesn't know their stuff.

3. Identify what you WANT from ball python breeding. You say experience. What do you mean? You can have experience by just keeping ball pythons. Are you wanting to breed because you can? Do you want to develop a large collection for yourself later? Or are you just looking to breed and sell?

4. Find examples of the morphs you want that are the best you can afford. Do not be impatient. Search and be critical. Don't take the first animals you can find for a 'good deal'. I just got an amazing little Pied from a local breeder that could easily fetch a few hundred more than I paid. But, it wasn't about the money. I was willing to pay full price. Always be willing to pay full price, because that's when you know an animal is worth it.

5. Do it because you love it. If you ever find yoruself worrying about how much you'll make from a clutch of eggs... Time to re-evaluate.

Every morph is worth breeding if youre doing it for all the right reasons.... :)

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Originally Posted by Vasiliki

I do not breed. However, if I did, I would approach the situation a little differently.

1. Look at Ball Pythons. I mean really look. Start hanging out here, so that you can visually find what appeals to you. Do NOT focus on the cost right now. Focus on what you LIKE.

2. Get familiar with genetics. I don't mean just kind of. I mean really research it, to the point that you can almost do them in your head. If you look at a snake that's a common morph, or a common double-combo, you should be able to identify it. I feel like this is important, because people will not take you seriously if you ask: "What's that?" and it's something basic. I don't want to buy from a breeder who doesn't know their stuff.

3. Identify what you WANT from ball python breeding. You say experience. What do you mean? You can have experience by just keeping ball pythons. Are you wanting to breed because you can? Do you want to develop a large collection for yourself later? Or are you just looking to breed and sell?

4. Find examples of the morphs you want that are the best you can afford. Do not be impatient. Search and be critical. Don't take the first animals you can find for a 'good deal'. I just got an amazing little Pied from a local breeder that could easily fetch a few hundred more than I paid. But, it wasn't about the money. I was willing to pay full price. Always be willing to pay full price, because that's when you know an animal is worth it.

5. Do it because you love it. If you ever find yoruself worrying about how much you'll make from a clutch of eggs... Time to re-evaluate.

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Excellent! I couldnt have said it better myself!

Awesome guys, thank you for the words of wisdom. Believe it or not I'm actually just a responsible adult who has had a fascination with reptiles my whole life. Thanks for the advice on getting a job though I would recommend that to anyone who doesn't have one, but fortunately I run my own successful painting business. I expect the comments of your going to get bored though because most people do! That is why in the past I have adopted an iguana because some clown got bored and couldn't take care of their pet. I built him a 6 by 6 by 3 foot enclosure with a nice rainforest painted background, I take a lot of pride in what I keep. I have always had an interest in breeding ball pythons. I love checking out the new morphs and thinking about the capabilities of breeding different morphs. I will be able to house all the hatchling's no problem, I'm just trying to get a good grasp of where to start as far as the morphs go. I'm thinking of buying a 2012 female spider now and then possibly breeding her with a nice pastel down the road, what do you guys think? I was also thinking about a lesser platinum too what would be really good to breed that with?

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Originally Posted by chimp54321

Awesome guys, thank you for the words of wisdom. Believe it or not I'm actually just a responsible adult who has had a fascination with reptiles my whole life. Thanks for the advice on getting a job though I would recommend that to anyone who doesn't have one, but fortunately I run my own successful painting business. I expect the comments of your going to get bored though because most people do! That is why in the past I have adopted an iguana because some clown got bored and couldn't take care of their pet. I built him a 6 by 6 by 3 foot enclosure with a nice rainforest painted background, I take a lot of pride in what I keep. I have always had an interest in breeding ball pythons. I love checking out the new morphs and thinking about the capabilities of breeding different morphs. I will be able to house all the hatchling's no problem, I'm just trying to get a good grasp of where to start as far as the morphs go. I'm thinking of buying a 2012 female now and then possibly breeding her with a nice pastel down the road, what do you guys think? I was also thinking about a lesser platinum too what would be really good to breed that with?

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I wasnt trying to call you immature it just sounded like you were getting into it for the wrong reasons. I mean look at your posts. Most of the questions were about money. Im only concerned for the (potential) animals.

Anywho if i were you i would get 2 females now and raise them up then when they get to size buy a 2 gene male to breed to both of them. This will make some awesome combos for you no matter what morphs you get. You would have a few different chances at getting a triple gene animal your first year breeding.

That sounds like a really good idea. I'm just trying to get a grasp on how much I can spend and still get really nice looking morphs because lets face it if I could afford an Enchi Coral Glow I would be all over it, that morph is amazing! I haven't been able to keep reptiles for a little while now due to housing complications but now I got a nice stable pad and all I can envision is racks of beautiful snakes so I'm really excited to start collecting again. It's just one of those hobbies for me though where most of what I've learned is from forums and talking to people online rather than a group that meets or something. There is a couple of nice expo's coming to my area in September that I'm looking forward too though. Thanks again, buying the two females first makes a lot of sense to me.

dont take it the wrong way, no one was calling you immature or anything. But it happens every 2-3 weeks i would say someone joins bp.net and asks something along the lines of "whats the best way to make money breeding ball pythons" or "what morphs will sell at the highest price for babies". this is also the same people that give the ball python/ reptile community a bad name. And a few of your post have money as the major topic.
Keeping ball pythons as pets is different that breeding. If you want to keep them as pets no problem anyone with a little common sense and a passion for ball pythons/reptiles can. when you look at breeding( this is the way i see it anyway). there is a lot of things to consider before you just jump right in. Get females first-they take longer to mature, get quality! not quantity. You can start breeding ball pythons with any budget. The thing about breeding that i have considered multiple times is, you breed, you get 6 eggs, all 6 hatch. be prepared to to be able to house and feed all those babies all the way until they die(or you do). There is no guarantee that every baby that hatches you will sell, it takes time, and people have to trust you before they send you any money. Think about these things before you spend all the money on something you dont know if you really want to do. I have had my ph albino(sold as 100% no papers) female for over 7 years, ever since i have had her all i wanted to do was to breed her to an albino. There was plenty of times that i could have(friend have had albino males), but chose no to. All because i am still a college student, was going away for college for 4 years, and knew that i did not have them money or the time to care for any babies that hatched let alone try to sell them. I started picking up my collection again in NOV '11 to hope to breed for the '13/14 season, knowing that i will be almost done with my degree in biology/pre vet, and i will be able to decide then if i want to breed or to wait longer.
As for what morphs i think you should get. It doesn't matter what i think you should get. It only matter what you want, and only what you want. everyone has different opinions on they favorite morph/ what morphs they want to one day create. such as, i LOVE anything albino, where as some people on this fourm, feel albino are boring because they make all colors either yellow or white. do some searching on KS and fauna and find snakes you like and that are in your price range, personally i strongly feel you should pick up 2 gene female(save up a little more money), they will give you more possible offsprings when you plan on breeding. Most people save money on equipment, such has build a rack instead of buying one, so they have more money to spend on snakes to fill the racks. Just DO NOT BE CHEAP ON A THERMOSTAT!!!!
Do some research on the snakes you are thinking of buying, and from the people you are thinking of buying from.
world of ball pythons' genetic wizard will be your best friend when planning your breeding projects.
I think i can speak for a lot of people on this forum, where not mean we just don't like when people join here and their first intention is to see how much money they can make off breeding ball pythons, and by some of your post they seemed money oriented. Bp.net is like a family, were happy for each other, we love pictures, and we also argue about topics.

Tom

I spend oodles of time on http://www.worldofballpythons.com/ playing with the genetic wizard and browsing their morph list. Between bp.net, wobp.com, ks.com and fauna...you'll get your answers as to what makes YOU go "whoa" :)

I'd say up your 300 to 500 and get a male bumblebee hatchling or well started and a breeder female normal
gives you
1/4 normal
1/4 pastel
1/4 spider
1/4 bumblebee

I know what you're trying to say, you want the most for what you can afford. I understand that. If you mention "worth" concerning your reptiles on a forum such as this, people are going to jump down your throat. For $300, the only thing you're going to be able to get that's breeding size is a normal female and a Pastel male. For $500, you could do normal female and male Bumblebee if you can find one for cheap. You don't want cheap though, because cheap is average. Average bred with average produces...well...average. If you're truly interested in the hobby as a hobby and not a means of income, invest in quality animals. You'll never really make your money back, but if you're doing it for the love of the animals it won't matter. :aww: I say, just save up your money. Buy several female and a couple of male morphs as babies that you want to breed eventually. Pastel, Lesser, Spider, Mojave, Het Pied and Het Albino are all good choices.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...97327381_n.jpg

If a person loves reptiles, and has some experience with them, I do not think there is a 'wrong reason' to get into breeding ball pythons, unless it is 'to make gobs of money super fast'. I think it's ridiculous to suggest that people who breed ball pythons in order to make money are doing it 'for the wrong reasons', because if money were not involved, none of the professional breeders would be in business.

So, I'm going to give the OP the benefit of the doubt, and make some actual suggestions.

First, don't skimp on your equipment. You can't make do with an aquarium and a heat lamp if you're breeding. Happy females breed, unhappy ones skip a year and reabsorb their follicles. So, get yourself a small rack, and get a herpstat Quad to control it. Why a quad? Because you need to control a hatchling rack and an incubator as well, so you might as well save a bit of money thinking ahead.

Now that you have that taken care of, you can shop for your snakes. Unless you buy local, shipping is going to factor in, so you're going to want to get them both from the same person. You're looking for an adult normal female, and a yearling male. With only $300, you really have maybe $210 to spend on animals...so you're probably looking at a male pastel or male yellowbelly.
If you raise what you can spend to $500, then I recommend you get a good male mojave. Mojaves are always in high demand on the market, because they can make potions.

Forget about the recessives, there is never a point in getting a het male unless you have het females (and even then, you're better off with a visual male--and some of the visuals have come down to a mere $150 as hatchlings, now). Possible hets sell for about the same price as normals, so why bother with that? Even 100% hets aren't worth very much, unless they're something at least on the level of lavender albino.

Now, the reality check--you will probably not make back your equipment investment anytime soon unless you put considerably more money into the projects in the next couple of years. You can't start with a few animals, and breed them. What you make from producing a clutch of mojaves is probably going to be around $650, average odds. Subtract feeding your hatchlings, feeding your adults for 1 year, electricity, bedding, cleaning supplies...and what do you have left? Not much. Your pair of ball pythons will eat maybe $96 in rats over the course of a year. Your 6 hatchlings will eat maybe $48 worth before you sell them all. Cypress costs perhaps $3.00 per bag, and you'll need at least one bag per month. So, that's $36. You have $470 left. That maybe covers the cost of your thermostat and incubator--if you go with a hovabator. If you assume your time is worth absolutely nothing at all, and you don't recoup the cost of equipment, that's enough to pick up a couple more normal females, but next year, mojaves will probably be going for $125 for males, and $150 for females.

I think you can see how very slowly this will go. It will take you somewhere between 3 and 5 years to cover the costs of your equipment to get started. After that, you can make a little money--but not very much.

If you want to actually make money, you need substantially more for your initial investment. Just as with any other business or investment, you have to have money before you can make money.

I get quite a giggle every time I hear someone say "you'll never make your money back...:P
If one has the head "in the game" so to speak, it's very easy to make money at breeding ball pythons.
In one of if not the worst economy in 70 years I sold everything I had to sell and could have easily sold double what I had last year.
Does it take an initial investment of more than $300-$500, oh yeah closer to 10X that or more, but in one breeding season that investment was returned several times over and then some ;)

It takes money to make money, that said if you don't have the passion it aint going to happen.

Are you planning on raising your own rats or buying them ?? That is a big question that needs to be answered before you even buy your first snake IMO.

Visit your local reptile show. You can meet some local ball python breeders that will give you a hand getting started. You might even find some used racks for sale. A good source for rats.

I just bought a couple of nice balls off someone that is moving that was actually planning on breeding them. One normal female and a beautiful pastel, both snakes look very healthy and are about two and a half years of age. They came with a 40 gallon breeder and a 55 gallon tall with lights and such. I plan on making a rack and an incubator once they get nice and acclimated to their new environment. As far as breeding rats, I could see myself doing that in the future when I'm feeding 10 or more snakes but for right now I don't mind dropping some money into it. I figured if I can sell a few of them that would be cool and if I can't that would be cool too.

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I'm defiantly going to the Herp show in NH in September and I will defiantly be yanking info out of breeders that look like they have a healthy business with healthy snakes. That's a really good idea to check out if any breeders are getting rid of any old racks. Thanks again for all the response I can see myself visiting this site regularly because I always have questions and I'm always interested in learning more!

Congrats on the pick ups. I would sell the tanks and put them in individual tubs until you can afford a rack. BPs don't tend to do well in huge tanks, in my experience... Just stresses them out and they are nearly impossible to hold humidity in.

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Originally Posted by BallChick

Congrats on the pick ups. I would sell the tanks and put them in individual tubs until you can afford a rack. BPs don't tend to do well in huge tanks, in my experience... Just stresses them out and they are nearly impossible to hold humidity in.

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I couldn't agree more. They are a massive monstrosity in my room. I got them in their for now but plan on moving them into tubs soon. What size tubs do you use and where do you get them. I also need a thermostat and was thinking about buying a herpstat and some heat tape.

I have two 32 qt racks and one 28qt rack. I keep females in 32qt and males/younger females in 28 qt. Some larger females do better in 41qt.

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Originally Posted by BallChick

I have two 32 qt racks and one 28qt rack. I keep females in 32qt and males/younger females in 28 qt. Some larger females do better in 41qt.

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Just picked up up 2 28qt tub's. Flex watt and thermostat are coming on Wednesday. Picking up a cheap book shelf tomorrow to build a rack out of. The guy I got them from said they were fed last week and one only eats once a month and the other once every two weeks and I picked them up on Saturday. I might try and feed them tomorrow. The tank's their in now are just silly as far as trying to keep the temp and humidity and I'm not going to put any effort into making the tank right because they'll be out of their Wednesday.

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Once these guy's get set up in some nice tub's their going to thrive and hopefully eat more often.

You sound like you are on the right track. You mentioned you wanted a Spider or Lesser. I would shop around and not buy the first one you see. See what a great example costs and save up for that. Great examples of the morphs will make great babies that people want to buy. If you buy cheap then you will get cheap babies. Buy females because they take alot more time to get to breeder size. Also go slow, don't get too many too fast or you will get overwhelmed! I think it's okay to think of the dollar value of possible babies, I breed to get back some of my costs and to afford morphs that I normally can't afford! Let's face it, it's not a cheap hobby! Good luck!