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I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
I am thinking of getting a Spider BP and it will be a baby just like my current norm BP, would it be OK to put them in the same cage together? (upgrading to a bigger one over time of course)
If it depends on sex or anything like that, what makes a good paid that is less likely to have "words" with each other? Must know every ones input on this!!!
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Nope never a good idea. We get into this discussion alot and if you search for it it's been hashed out a few times.
But here's a few reasons.
Basically since you already have a snake you need to do a quarentine. That's one important thing that you should never ever slack on.
If one is sick then you automatically have two sick if you don't.
They aren't social they don't want a friend.
Cage mates can Accidentally kill another.
The cuddling is really just competing for heat and comfort areas.
It's stressful which can lead to health issues, if a regurge happens you won't know whom did it.
Unwanted breeding can occur if it's a pair. Even though the female would or wouldn't be ready. The stress of that can cause issues in itself. A ready male Will try and breed a female.
Not to mention if they do breed then you're looking at taking care of babies if it's successful.
2 males together is never a good idea.
In short the risks outweigh benefits. Which there really are None beyond breeding for balls. And that's done in short periods of time.
Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com
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If you put those two snakes in one cage (or force them to fill one cup........) I cannot begin to tell you the horrible things that might happen. The worst of which is that several people with minimal experience in anything but with an opinion on everything will look down on you - or worse, give you *GASP* negative reputation........
Other potential pitfalls:
(1) You will not know which snake took a dump unless you use an OJ Simpson Home DNA kit or have a really discerning tongue.
(2) If one snake magically gets sick the other snake is also doomed. Because we all know that snakes get sick for absolutely no reason and that snakes in adjacent tubs or racks are immune.
(3) Snakes are horny little buggers and have sex for the pure enjoyment of sex. They will do it for no other reason that to bask in the afterglow of excellent coitus. They breed like rabbits and multiply like blowflies.
(4) Two males will fight incessantly because snakes are pack animals that are always trying to determine the hierarchy of the pack. If you put a female and male together, the male will eventually take her for granted and the female will nag him incessantly. The stress will cause him to go off feed and become an alcoholic.
(5) The Slapaho locality ball pythons in equatorial New Guinea are known cannibals and will eat each other for the sheer perverted pleasure it gives them. These locality snakes (colloquially known as "Hos") have been so widely interbred with most breeder lines that ALL ball pythons are potentially sadistic cannibals.
Ball pythons need to be kept in precisely controlled tupperware boxes where temperature and humidity are dialed into the hundredth of a degree. They must be fed on sterilized mats to prevent impaction from microscopic dust particles and have to have belly (not back or not overhead) heat. They must be fed perfectly weighed and measured prey (head first of course) and be kept in utter isolation from their own species. You know, just like they are in the wild.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiploder
(or force them to fill one cup........)
this is bi-winning right here folks. everyone take notes from Uncle Skip now. :gj:
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Lol Mike and Skip.
Do not ever house your snakes together. We can hash this out again, or you can use the search function on here, and see how many times that is a BAD idea.
Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2
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Yup. Not a great idea. Reasons have been stated above.
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OK got my answer thanks ;)
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Re: I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiploder
(5) The Slapaho locality ball pythons in equatorial New Guinea are known cannibals and will eat each other for the sheer perverted pleasure it gives them. These locality snakes (colloquially known as "Hos") have been so widely interbred with most breeder lines that ALL ball pythons are potentially sadistic cannibals.
Someone on Kingsnake was selling un-sorted bags of babies from this locality...go to KS and do a search for Ho-bags and they should pop up...
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Re: I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
2 snakes 1 cup is never good.
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Looks like the OP got the answer they were looking for. Might be a great time to let this post settle to the bottom of the ocean...
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Even though Skip's post was hilarious and awesome, I strongly recommend that the OP not keep two snakes together. It does not benefit the snakes at all, and in some circumstances can be harmful to them.
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Re: I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
Youre going to hear an unbeleivable amount of responses saying that you should never ever cage together, but in my opinion people are responding this way when in reality it actually has a low percentage chancr of happening. I know quite a few people that how housed not only ball pythons together, but even balls with boas, and boas with boas as well. I personally have not had or met anyone that has had a bad exprrience with caging together. I am currently keeping both of my similarly sized normal females together. One is two years old, one is one year old, and neither has rejected a meal failed to leave me two poops every week, or gotten sixk with anything other than mites, which made its way from an entirely seperate enclosure not even om the same level without any handling or spreading from me involved. My whole collection still got them and would have whether I had those two caged together or not. Im also going to say that while everything in the world points to snakes being solitary creatures and not enjoying each others company, my two girls very much so APPEAR to love each other. When being handled by two different people they make there way back to each other and more often then not once theyve found each other one or both will simply stay by othe others side. But thats a whole other topic I suppose.
End game point: I think its perfectly fime as long as you do quarentine first, use your better judgememt to observe how docile each snake is before combining, have an enclosure large enough for TWO SEPERATE SIIDE BY SIDE HIDES ON THE WARM END OF THE ENCLOSURE, with two similar hides on the cool end of course, and allow seperate and consistant feeding. I am a firm beleiver that snakes do have their own little personalities and some are more suited to being around other snakes and life forms for that matter then others. Just dont take the first words you hear and feel youre bound by them. Take all the information youve found here, other pwople personal experienced and knowledge and weigh out the facts by yourself. Outside of husbandry theres a lot ofnroom to do your own thing in this hobby.
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Re: I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackstrong83
Never a good idea. Ever.
Bullsnot. Perhaps before you go giving erroneous advice you should gain some real life experience. You are 100% wrong.
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Re: I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
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As a keeper, it is our responsibility to take care of our animals to the best of our ability.
Why take ANY risk of spreading illness and/or mites? Why take ANY risk of cannibalism or other injury/death?
Putting any of your snakes together outside of breeding purposes and knowing there is a risk is irresponsible. No matter how minor the risk seems. It's still there. Things happen. Better safe than sorry in my opinion.
And for the record, when snakes "cuddle", they're competing for the best spot in the enclosure.
And I'll leave you with these joyous photos.... *graphic warning*
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http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s67/Smugg_66/BP.jpg
Boa ate a Ball
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...istic_boa1.jpg
Same boa regurged the Ball
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...istic_boa4.jpg
Boa ate another Boa
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...istic_boa7.jpg
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Re: I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Void
how dare you put 2 snakes in the same cage that is very very wrong :rage:. :rofl: :rofl::rofl: well at least theres people that disagree. i respect that.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satomi325
would hunger be the cause of snakes eating snakes?
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can an admin lock this post? I already stated I have my answer meaning I have made up my mind.....I do thank everyone for all the input, but I have decided on what I want!!! I have 2 cages, if they get along after a while I will house them together for a while monitoring them a lot of course, and see how they handle it!! They will be opposite sex, and I will be breeding them when they are old enough. I am actually getting a male pastel next Friday, just waiting for it to feed one more time before he can leave!!
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Re: I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
Quote:
Originally Posted by satomi325
Yeah, those pics are well travelled. Someone photographs a one in a million occurrence and it has now become the rule, not the exception that it is.
But those pics don't change the fact that with the proper keeper and the proper husbandry skills, it can be pulled off and pulled off successfully.
My earlier post in this thread was an attempt at sarcastic humor, pointing out the silliness in the oft repeated reasons for keeping snakes separate. I guess my attempts at humor and sarcasm failed...............
The problem is that people make blanket statements that you cannot do it ever with any snake, and as Wes stated, that is pure and utter crap. There are many species, such as spilotes and pseustes that are often kept in pairs - and many rhamphiophis and others are kept in 1.2 trios, thamnophis are kept in groups, etc. I could go on, but the point remains: you can keep more than one snake in one cage.
There are high cannibalism risks in some species (like lampropeltis and clelia) and there are feeding accidents that have resulted in cannibalism in others. In the second example, those risks could have been averted by proper husbandry (read: supervised feedings).
As for spreading mites and illness - most pathogens do not respect the mighty wall of the tupperware tub and mites will gladly travel across a room to infest another snake - so that reason there is not the most valid. Really, how many snake illnesses do you know that just "crop" up? The majority of "random" bacterial infections are not random at all - but the result of faulty husbandry. Viral infections can be eliminated with proper quarantine. Again, the old internet hokum that snakes magically get sick like 3 year old kids is just not true.
The main reason why people should keep two snakes in two separate enclosures is that most people have no clue how to pull it off successfully. That's it. Most of the other concerns are just the rehashing of internet suppositions.
I guess the gold standard answer should be: Yes, you can keep two snakes in one cage, but it not only depends on the species, but on the skill and experience level of the keeper.
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Re: I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
I agree, but why even (learn how to) house them together when you can simply get another tub? There is a small risk of injury when you house them together, and for the menial cost of a tupperware and a couple feet of flexwatt, it's just not worth taking the risk.
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Re: I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple2
I agree, but why even (learn how to) house them together when you can simply get another tub? There is a small risk of injury when you house them together, and for the menial cost of a tupperware and a couple feet of flexwatt, it's just not worth taking the risk.
Because there are some species that will not breed unless you keep them together.
If anyone is trying to keep two snakes in one little tub, they really shouldn't be attempting the cohabitation thing.
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I don't use tiny containers, I use a decent sized tank that 10 snakes could fit in it lol. But I only want 2 for now!!! I'm thinking of building a small building out back to build some racks in and start breeding in the future. I still have a lot to learn about snakes in general, but I have has a couple other reptiles in the past and am pretty good at the husbandry part so I am 100% confident that I will be fine with my female and soon to be new male pastel in the same terrarium!!
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Re: I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
[QUOTE=satomi325;1876849]As a keeper, it is our responsibility to take care of our animals to the best of our ability.
Why take ANY risk of spreading illness and/or mites? Why take ANY risk of cannibalism or other injury/death?
Putting any of your snakes together outside of breeding purposes and knowing there is a risk is irresponsible. No matter how minor the risk seems. It's still there. Things happen. Better safe than sorry in my opinion.
And for the record, when snakes "cuddle", they're competing for the best spot in the enclosure.
I'd like to know if you have any proof of this supposition or if, as I suspect, you are merely regurgitating what has been spoonfed to you by those too stupid to successfully keep more than one snake in the same enclosure. Because if you don't have any proof of this, you're guilty of spreading stupidity and ignorance which is far more dangerous than keeping 2 snakes in one cage.
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Re: I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
I was looking for an answer for the same question as well. Landed on this site. Very informative. Also, you can try to search for some topic as I was able to see answers to my questions.
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Re: I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypnotixdmp
I don't use tiny containers, I use a decent sized tank that 10 snakes could fit in it lol. But I only want 2 for now!!! I'm thinking of building a small building out back to build some racks in and start breeding in the future. I still have a lot to learn about snakes in general, but I have has a couple other reptiles in the past and am pretty good at the husbandry part so I am 100% confident that I will be fine with my female and soon to be new male pastel in the same terrarium!!
Was I talking to you? I wasn't so kindly stop acting like all my comments have been addressed to you.
Now that you have my attention, please enlighten us as to the size of the snakes, the size of the "tank", how you are going to heat it, the number of hides you are going to use and what your feeding strategy is.
Oh, and while you are at it, explain your quarantine procedure for the second snake you are about to obtain.
You are full of questions - which is good, but you do not have the husbandry skills or the experience to do this, so don't
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Cannibalism, one in a million? Nah, I have spoken with two different local keepers who had it happen to them. It's rare, but not rare enough.
Most often happens with hatchlings.
In one case, the hatchling had repeatedly refused mice and rats, and had not yet started feeding. Its sibling was its first meal. It ate rats fine after that.
Sometimes, when cannibalism happens, both snakes die, as the meal was too large.
I've not had it happen to me...because I have never housed baby ball pythons together, and only put adults together for breeding.
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Re: I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion
Cannibalism, one in a million? Nah, I have spoken with two different local keepers who had it happen to them. It's rare, but not rare enough.
Most often happens with hatchlings.
In one case, the hatchling had repeatedly refused mice and rats, and had not yet started feeding. Its sibling was its first meal. It ate rats fine after that.
Sometimes, when cannibalism happens, both snakes die, as the meal was too large.
I've not had it happen to me...because I have never housed baby ball pythons together, and only put adults together for breeding.
Yawn.
I've also heard that if you fart and sneeze at the same time, your eardrums will rupture.
It's never happened to me, because I am careful to only fart, then sneeze but I worry about all those irresponsible parents who feed their children foods high in polysaccharides.
In one case, a young child with a head cold ate a whole jar of sauerkraut and is now deaf. True story, I know the friend of the second cousin who plays cribbage with local parent of the kid it happened to.
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Re: I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiploder
Yawn.
I've also heard that if you fart and sneeze at the same time, your eardrums will rupture.
It's never happened to me, because I am careful to only fart, then sneeze but I worry about all those irresponsible parents who feed their children foods high in polysaccharides.
In one case, a young child with a head cold ate a whole jar of sauerkraut and is now deaf. True story, I know the friend of the second cousin who plays cribbage with local parent of the kid it happened to.
:rofl:
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Re: I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
Now skip youre making a lot of great points right now, but I feel that youre coming off a little more abrasive then what this situation calls for.
The battle between those who think that it is okay to keep some snakes together and those who would rather not take the risk is not going to be won here, on a simple basis that it boils down to personal preferance. Not everyone is going to agree, and that is okay. We can present our side, which you effectively did, and beyond that probed for a specific circumstance which I commend. But those who er on the side of caution cant really be faulted for that. They think why work harder when you dont have to, and we are willing to use knowledge and expertise to do what we want successfully regardless. Its simply a different style, and there IS room for both. On a polar subject like this, all we can do is hope for open minds and a plesant debate. Lets not get too riled up here.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim
Looks like the OP got the answer they were looking for. Might be a great time to let this post settle to the bottom of the ocean...
Yup.
Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2
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Re: I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riv
Now skip youre making a lot of great points right now, but I feel that youre coming off a little more abrasive then what this situation calls for.
The battle between those who think that it is okay to keep some snakes together and those who would rather not take the risk is not going to be won here, on a simple basis that it boils down to personal preferance. Not everyone is going to agree, and that is okay. We can present our side, which you effectively did, and beyond that probed for a specific circumstance which I commend. But those who er on the side of caution cant really be faulted for that. They think why work harder when you dont have to, and we are willing to use knowledge and expertise to do what we want successfully regardless. Its simply a different style, and there IS room for both. On a polar subject like this, all we can do is hope for open minds and a plesant debate. Lets not get too riled up here.
Actually, miss morehouse has quite the reputation for inane, inaccurate and just plain foolish posts. She often puts up so called facts with no more knowledge as to their veracity than trust in the site she got them on, which themselves are often of dubious reliability, or because someone told her it was so.
And it's not a battle. If you notice, neither Craig nor I have ever said you MUST keep them in pairs or trios yet those without the skill to do so have repeatedly said that it is absodamnlutely positively 100% fact that not only shouldn't you, but you can't successfully keep more than one snake in a cage at a time. Those of us who have done it for multiple generations with multiple species get rather tired of knowitall dogooders passing on crappy information as if it were absolute truth, as miss morehouse is wont to do.
No one has to keep them in any certain way, but those who can't often seem to resent those who not only can, but do. Try not to be one of those.
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Re: I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiploder
Was I talking to you? I wasn't so kindly stop acting like all my comments have been addressed to you.
Now that you have my attention, please enlighten us as to the size of the snakes, the size of the "tank", how you are going to heat it, the number of hides you are going to use and what your feeding strategy is.
Oh, and while you are at it, explain your quarantine procedure for the second snake you are about to obtain.
You are full of questions - which is good, but you do not have the husbandry skills or the experience to do this, so don't
Sorry, I just assumed that since I started the thread you were trying to answer my question is all...
The 2 snakes are babies, both of them are no longer than about 16-18" long. The tank I am using (until I get the 100 Gallon I have on layaway) is a 30" long terrarium, my current baby has wayyyyyy more room than needed at the moment. So that answers your tank size question.
As for quarantine, I have a smaller 10 gallon tank I will use until he gets used to this place and I make sure hes not sick or doesn't have any mites, so on and so forth.
Once the 2 are joined in the same tank, I will then have 3-4 hides (there only 2 as of now). The tank is heated with a decent sized UTH that will also soon have a thermostat hooked up to it, and the bedding will be switched from red bard to aspen, I know you didn't ask about that, but I figure I would throw it in as well ;).
Last, but most certainly not least, I am going to be tanking the snakes out, once a week on different days of the week to feed them in their own container that will NEVER be used by the other snake, each one gets their own personal container for feeding. I am thinking, 1 gets fed on Tuesdays and the other gets fed on Fridays, this way there is enough time in between feedings that I can see which snake is the one whom defecated so I know if they are getting blocked up or not.
The tank is huge for baby snakes, its not like I am using a 5Gallon to keep them both in, I think the terrarium could hold like 30-40 gallons of water. which is a good size for now!!!
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So your current snake is being kept on an unregulated uth ..?
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Yes, and PLEASE don't lecture me on it....I have already had folks tell me on here to get a thermostat, but money has been tight the past couple weeks and will be until next weekend.....so please don't tell me, I do keep an eye on my little one and make sure that he is not getting burned or even to hot. I don't really leave very much so its easy for me to do constantly! But I am getting one next weekend!!! I was told to get a digital thermometer and that didn't cost very much at all so I went ahead and got that...but the thermostat I cant find cheaper than like $30, so if you want to comment on that at all, tell me where I can get one CHEAP!!! lol
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Re: I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypnotixdmp
Sorry, I just assumed that since I started the thread you were trying to answer my question is all...
The 2 snakes are babies, both of them are no longer than about 16-18" long. The tank I am using (until I get the 100 Gallon I have on layaway) is a 30" long terrarium, my current baby has wayyyyyy more room than needed at the moment. So that answers your tank size question.
As for quarantine, I have a smaller 10 gallon tank I will use until he gets used to this place and I make sure hes not sick or doesn't have any mites, so on and so forth.
Once the 2 are joined in the same tank, I will then have 3-4 hides (there only 2 as of now). The tank is heated with a decent sized UTH that will also soon have a thermostat hooked up to it, and the bedding will be switched from red bard to aspen, I know you didn't ask about that, but I figure I would throw it in as well ;).
Last, but most certainly not least, I am going to be tanking the snakes out, once a week on different days of the week to feed them in their own container that will NEVER be used by the other snake, each one gets their own personal container for feeding. I am thinking, 1 gets fed on Tuesdays and the other gets fed on Fridays, this way there is enough time in between feedings that I can see which snake is the one whom defecated so I know if they are getting blocked up or not.
The tank is huge for baby snakes, its not like I am using a 5Gallon to keep them both in, I think the terrarium could hold like 30-40 gallons of water. which is a good size for now!!!
You need to keep that second snake in quarantine ideally for six months, minimally for three. It needs to be kept in a separate room and you need to use a dedicated set of husbandry tools for it.
My recommendation to you is that you do NOT keep your snakes together.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hypnotixdmp
Yes, and PLEASE don't lecture me on it....I have already had folks tell me on here to get a thermostat, but money has been tight the past couple weeks and will be until next weekend.....so please don't tell me, I do keep an eye on my little one and make sure that he is not getting burned or even to hot. I don't really leave very much so its easy for me to do constantly! But I am getting one next weekend!!! I was told to get a digital thermometer and that didn't cost very much at all so I went ahead and got that...but the thermostat I cant find cheaper than like $30, so if you want to comment on that at all, tell me where I can get one CHEAP!!! lol
You should spend your money a thermostat before a new snake.
And while not ideal at all, but better than unregulated, you could always use a lamp dimmer. I would still recommend a thermostsat asap. And btw, $30 is cheap for a thermostat.
Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2
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Thermostat = the most important piece of equipment, and the one you should not skimp on.
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Re: I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDooLittle
You should spend your money a thermostat before a new snake.
And while not ideal at all, but better than unregulated, you could always use a lamp dimmer. I would still recommend a thermostsat asap. And btw, $30 is cheap for a thermostat.
Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2
X2 agreed!
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Re: I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
Are you kidding me? 3-4 weeks is plenty. In ONE months time you can say with 100% certainty that is either does or does not have a URI, or mites and ideally if its been eating well you should have had more than one opperunity to examine its stool for texture and parasites. The only thing you may not know about is an airborn pathogen, and if youre using the same ventilation system throughout your house it MAY still get to your other snake regardless. Six months, thats an insane extreme. If you tell me you quarentine every one of your snakes that way Ill call you a liar.
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Re: I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
@wilonm Youre absolutely right. There is a lot of people out there that say you should NEVER do this, and thats the whole reason we're talking about this in the first place. Up until the quarentine thing I had agreed with skip on most fronts. It is purely in experience, skill and knowledge, and those who cant do flame those who can. I was just trying to keep the conversation in a friendly tone thats all.
@Hypnotixdmp That sounds great to me. I generally go heat lamps with a mister for humidity, but hey, a regulated UTH sould work just fine. I would recommend investing in a temp gun though. It makes checking your temps the easiest thing in the world and they last forever. I dont even use thermometers anymore, digital or otherwise. Theyre about $100 at home depot. Pricey, but mine is still going strong two years later and I could be happier. 100 gallons should be more than enough room as adults, and your feeding schedule should work in theory. I hope you enjoy your babies! Personally I love watching my girls interact with each other. I'll have to split them up once theyre large enough to be breeders, but im contemplating raising my female normals like that from now on.
SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST GUYS, THEY APPARENTLY DONT LET YOU EDIT UNTIL TEN MINUTES AFTER THE POST, AND I HAVE TO GO NOW!
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Well thanks you 2, I got my 2nd baby yesterday, he's a beautiful spider + possible het hypo, hopefully he's het hypo but if not it's still cool!! I have him quarantined in another room and we use window units so every room has it's own airflow system. I got to see my little guy eat at the breeders before I took him home and even got the chance to see a lot of other snakes in general, stuff I've never seen lol. But I posted another thread called "New Spider + Possible Het Hypo" with a couple pix check it out!!!!
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Calling Skip a liar is akin to calling yourself an ignorant sphincter. Just because YOU don't think something is necessary does not mean no one else does. It's not such a difficult concept in spite of the fact that some of you simply refuse to acknowledge it.
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Re: I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riv
Are you kidding me? 3-4 weeks is plenty. In ONE months time you can say with 100% certainty that is either does or does not have a URI, or mites and ideally if its been eating well you should have had more than one opperunity to examine its stool for texture and parasites. The only thing you may not know about is an airborn pathogen, and if youre using the same ventilation system throughout your house it MAY still get to your other snake regardless. Six months, thats an insane extreme. If you tell me you quarentine every one of your snakes that way Ill call you a liar.
I quarantine every one of my snakes and keep them out of the snake house for 6 months. Period. I've been around long enough to have endured various viruses and other pathogens that remain aymptomatic for longer than 3 months or that do not shed oocysts continuosly and can take several fecals to detect, while the snake remains asymptomatic the entire time. Mites and URIs are the least of my worries - I've seen collections decimated by much worse because people were stupid enough to not follow proper quarrantine procedures.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilomn
Calling Skip a liar is akin to calling yourself an ignorant sphincter. Just because YOU don't think something is necessary does not mean no one else does. It's not such a difficult concept in spite of the fact that some of you simply refuse to acknowledge it.
I'll consider the source, Wes, and not lose a wink of sleep over it.
Cheers.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riv
Are you kidding me? 3-4 weeks is plenty. In ONE months time you can say with 100% certainty that is either does or does not have a URI, or mites and ideally if its been eating well you should have had more than one opperunity to examine its stool for texture and parasites. The only thing you may not know about is an airborn pathogen, and if youre using the same ventilation system throughout your house it MAY still get to your other snake regardless. Six months, thats an insane extreme. If you tell me you quarntine every one of your snakes that way Ill call you a liar.
The average quarantine practice here is 6 -12 months. I do 6 months minimum for each one of my snakes. Im not saying everyone does it, but some harmful agents can live dormant for ~9 months before breaking out. When a zoo quarantines their new animals, you can bet its 6 months or longer. Same thing goes for if one moves to a certain country or vice versa. Its to protect the resident animals. The point being animals can pass other things to each other. And I'm not talking about RI or mites, which are pretty obvious to identify in a few weeks or less, like you said. Some people have invested thousands of dollars in some collections. It would be very sad and a huge waste if an outbreak of something occurred in a large collection due to poor quarantine procedures. Like I mentioned before, better safe than sorry.
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Re: I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
Quote:
Originally Posted by satomi325
The average quarantine practice here is 6 -12 months. I do 6 months minimum for each one of my snakes. Im not saying everyone does it, but some harmful agents can live dormant for ~9 months before breaking out. When a zoo quarantines their new animals, you can bet its 6 months or longer. Same thing goes for if one moves to a certain country or vice versa. Its to protect the resident animals. The point being animals can pass other things to each other. And I'm not talking about RI or mites, which are pretty obvious to identify in a few weeks or less, like you said. Some people have invested thousands of dollars in some collections. It would be very sad and a huge waste if an outbreak of something occurred in a large collection due to poor quarantine procedures. Like I mentioned before, better safe than sorry.
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Nikki, so that we may better educate our dear Riv, would you care to enlighten him on where you are going to school and where you work? You've shared it with us before so I don't think I'm asking you to divulge any deep, dark secrets............
I'd hate for him to think you are a liar too.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiploder
Nikki, so that we may better educate our dear Riv, would you care to enlighten him on where you are going to school and where you work? You've shared it with us before so I don't think I'm asking you to divulge any deep, dark secrets............
I'd hate for him to think you are a liar too.
I attended the University of California, Davis in Animal Biology. Possibly on my way to vet or grad school. I have been working in a research laboratory for UC Davis Medical Center since 2010 with stem cells and immunodeficient animals.
With laboratory animal colonies, you have to have a strict quarantine protocol in order to protect the animals. It is very important to keep residents from being exposed to new entry animals due to the possible risk of contagious pathogens that could potentially destroy an entire project and/or years of work. A couple weeks is not long enough to quarantine. Like I mentioned in my previous post, some pathogens can lay dormant for months before breaking out. You don't know what the new animal has or has been exposed to in its life. Its the same thing with pets at home. Especially reptiles. Treating a sick reptile is not easy as mammals. Can you imagine a big breeder treating his collection of a hundred+ snakes because a new snake gave the collection something nasty? Its not easy and its not cheap. Even treating something as simple as RI can be costly and difficult. Its not easy on the keeper and it is especially not easy on the animal. All this could be avoided with proper quarantine. Many of us have invested a lot of time, energy, and money in our collection and/or breeding projects. Some have spent years selectively breeding in wanted traits and breeding out unwanted traits. If proper quarantine can prevent losing those years and effort, then why not do it? It can only do you good, never bad.
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I quarantine for a full 12 months in a separate room, with no equipment exchanged. I believe anything less is a ridiculous risk.
Some of the more deadly viruses can incubate for up to 10 months--and that's information from a vet. I will not risk my collection by cutting the quarantine period short. Safe is safe--everything contagious (that I am aware of) will show up within 1 year.
The same cannot be said of 1 month, 3 months, or even 6 months.
How much of a risk you want to take is up to you, but don't be naive about the level of risk you are taking. Every year there are people who report losing their entire collections to viruses.
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Re: I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
Well, I suppose I stand corrected. I apoligize for calling you a liar skip. Id never heard of anyone quarentining that long before. You practically told me the sky was green, and turns out you were right. Ill have to observe a longer quarentine from here on. I suppose I should count myself lucky for not having gotten anything worse than mites thus far..
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Re: I need opinions - 2 snakes 1 cage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riv
Well, I suppose I stand corrected. I apoligize for calling you a liar skip. Id never heard of anyone quarentining that long before. You practically told me the sky was green, and turns out you were right. Ill have to observe a longer quarentine from here on. I suppose I should count myself lucky for not having gotten anything worse than mites thus far..
It's all good.
Peace.
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