Would you buy these girls??

Hello all,

New to the hobby and obviously the forum. I have just started out with a fair collection of balls to hopefully be able to breed next season.

My hopeful breeding stock is:

1.0 Lesser Platinum @ 280g
0.1 Pinstripe @ 490g
0.1 Spider @ 425g

I have additionally run across another Pin and Spider female set that are hovering at 225g right now. The PAIR is $400 and he's firm. I would only be interested if I could get them up to weight by next fall to breed. I know the price is fair, but I'm only interested if I could get them up to weight for next season.

Would they get to weight in ~16 months??

I also have my 0.1 Butter which is a fat little hatchling at 130g at 2 months old for the 2104 fall, and a 1.0 normal that is eating like a hog, but not gaining any weight?? He's also about 2 months old and only 70g.

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Originally Posted by coreydelong

Hello all,

New to the hobby and obviously the forum. I have just started out with a fair collection of balls to hopefully be able to breed next season.

My hopeful breeding stock is:

1.0 Lesser Platinum @ 280g
0.1 Pinstripe @ 490g
0.1 Spider @ 425g

I have additionally run across another Pin and Spider female set that are hovering at 225g right now. The PAIR is $400 and he's firm. I would only be interested if I could get them up to weight by next fall to breed. I know the price is fair, but I'm only interested if I could get them up to weight for next season.

Would they get to weight in ~16 months??

I also have my 0.1 Butter which is a fat little hatchling at 130g at 2 months old for the 2104 fall, and a 1.0 normal that is eating like a hog, but not gaining any weight?? He's also about 2 months old and only 70g.

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At those weights they are most likely 2012 hatchlings. I doubt they would be up to breeding weight by this season. Especially the females. Males, yes it could be done. I would wait until next season at the earliest to breed any 2012 female and then only if she was 1500 grams. Even that is a stretch. Your best bet would be to get the pair, then look for a breedable normal female if you want to breed this upcomming season. You could probably find a nice sized normal girl for around $100.

I'm pretty confident my 0.1 Pin at 490g and my 0.1 Spider at 425g will make it by fall of 2013 with my 1.0 Lesser at 280g... yes?? I will have ~16 months to get them to weight. That should be enough time- yes??

A normal female of breeding weight in these parts (FL) is about $125. I was thinking of picking up the pair of ~225g females for $400 and trading them both up for another Pin in the 500g range that would make it by fall 2013?? The only thing I'm leary about at this point is that I have only seen detailed pics of the females in question. My Spider has zero head wobble and I don't know about this other one. Some say thats a deal breaker with Spiders??

Yes they will have enough time if they are solid eaters. I would buy them if they looked like excellent examples of the morph. If they aren't what I consider to be a GREAT looking spider or pinstripe, I'll pass. I'd rather save the money to buy a SWEET spider.

I don't think the head wobble is a deal breaker with spiders.. That's my personal opinion though. It's up to you. My spiders are doing great.

Just because your spider has zero head wobble doesn't mean the babies won't have any head wobble.

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Originally Posted by coreydelong

I'm pretty confident my 0.1 Pin at 490g and my 0.1 Spider at 425g will make it by fall of 2013 with my 1.0 Lesser at 280g... yes?? I will have ~16 months to get them to weight. That should be enough time- yes??

A normal female of breeding weight in these parts (FL) is about $125. I was thinking of picking up the pair of ~225g females for $400 and trading them both up for another Pin in the 500g range that would make it by fall 2013?? The only thing I'm leary about at this point is that I have only seen detailed pics of the females in question. My Spider has zero head wobble and I don't know about this other one. Some say thats a deal breaker with Spiders??

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Wobble isn't really a deal breaker, it depends on severity. 16 months to get them up to size is doable. Figure 80-100 gram increase a month if they eat well and don't go off food. That size I would be feeding every 5 days or so. Once they get to breeding weight its more like once a week. If they don't quite get to size by the time you want to breed them, at least you have quadrupled your investment by then. Or you start their season a few months later. They will breed readily year round, you don't have to start in fall...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

I personnaly like the Spiders a tad more than Pin's, but Kingpin's bring a bit more around here that Lesserbee's (with the 1.0 Lesser). Pin's are only ~$25 more at 500grams than a Spider of similiar weight, but the Kingpin's bring $100 more a head here as hatchlings than Lesserbee's.

My real project is the 1.0 Lesser and the 0.1 Butter in 2014. I don't have real good pics of any of them yet, but they are all ashtonishing. My dealer basically hand picks them for me cause he knows what I'm looking for. I picked the cleanest Pin I have ever seen and my Spider has so much light blushing she is a doll. There was one larger Spider, but the blushing on mine was the kicker.

I'll try to post some pics later.

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Originally Posted by coreydelong

I'm pretty confident my 0.1 Pin at 490g and my 0.1 Spider at 425g will make it by fall of 2013 with my 1.0 Lesser at 280g... yes?? I will have ~16 months to get them to weight. That should be enough time- yes??

A normal female of breeding weight in these parts (FL) is about $125. I was thinking of picking up the pair of ~225g females for $400 and trading them both up for another Pin in the 500g range that would make it by fall 2013?? The only thing I'm leary about at this point is that I have only seen detailed pics of the females in question. My Spider has zero head wobble and I don't know about this other one. Some say thats a deal breaker with Spiders??

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Yes, Unless the females hit the 1000 gram wall, I do not see any issue with them being able to breed in 2013.

There are so many other factors that you have to consider besides just getting them up to weight to breed. If the pair are both nice examples of the morph id say go for it though.

Dude, you seem like you're way too impatient. I've bred 18 month old girls before, but they've been over 2000 g when they began breeding. Don't be in such a rush and don't be so concerned with what brings more cash where. If you like the snakes, get them if not don't, when you're dealing with animals it's nearly impossible to know when they'll be ready to breed, as they generally do it when they're good and ready to do so. Slow down, take some time to enjoy your animals and they will do their thing when they feel like it.

Patience is such a big part of this, but you'll learn that

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Originally Posted by dreese88

Don't be in such a rush and don't be so concerned with what brings more cash where. If you like the snakes, get them if not don't, when you're dealing with animals it's nearly impossible to know when they'll be ready to breed, as they generally do it when they're good and ready to do so. Slow down, take some time to enjoy your animals and they will do their thing when they feel like it.

Patience is such a big part of this, but you'll learn that

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x2

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Originally Posted by dreese88

Dude, you seem like you're way too impatient. I've bred 18 month old girls before, but they've been over 2000 g when they began breeding. Don't be in such a rush and don't be so concerned with what brings more cash where. If you like the snakes, get them if not don't, when you're dealing with animals it's nearly impossible to know when they'll be ready to breed, as they generally do it when they're good and ready to do so. Slow down, take some time to enjoy your animals and they will do their thing when they feel like it.

Patience is such a big part of this, but you'll learn that

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x3!!

Patience is hard when there are SO many possibilities. Please don't power-feed an animal to get it to breed. You can shorten their lifespan pretty drastically by doing this, not to mention quick weight gain is hard on the renal system. Either shell out the cash for sub-adults or stand to wait a couple (or a few) years to breed.

Impatience and ball python breeding do not go hand in hand. Patience is the key!
If you wanted to breed fast, just pick up breeder size girls.

Anyway, back to your question. Yes. It is doable to grow out those girls in time if they are consistent feeders. If you mean by next fall being 2013, then that's plenty of time. Not sure about this coming fall.
I have a late 2011 Mojave born in December that is 800g now. She grows at least 100+g a month. She's a beast.

But remember that just because they reach breeding size does not mean they are sexually mature. It takes at least 2+ years for a female to reach sexual maturity. If these girls were born this year, it would be safer to breed them after their second winter.

yeah i would slow down dont be in such a hurry to make a buck just because you see other peo[ple doing it doesnt mean its easy these guys and girls:P spent years building a reputaion to sell like they do just buy some hachlings of what you want and watch them grow and give YOURSELF sometime to get ready to breed jumping into it is the wrong idea and dont worry about what sells the fastest just get what you like

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Originally Posted by kdreptiles

x3!!

Patience is hard when there are SO many possibilities. Please don't power-feed an animal to get it to breed. You can shorten their lifespan pretty drastically by doing this, not to mention quick weight gain is hard on the renal system. Either shell out the cash for sub-adults or stand to wait a couple (or a few) years to breed.

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I don't think anyone was talking about power feeding them.

Breeding does require patience for sure, but most people wouldn't have a problem with breeding 18 mos old and proper weight. If they are ready to breed they will, if not they wont.

Knowing when something is going to be able to breed can be a deciding factor as to whether you want to buy it or not. So is what the offspring could be worth.

However, don't only base your decisions on these things. The hatchlings may not sell right away, or not at all. You have to be prepared to raise them if they don't.

The future prices of hatchlings may be different also, who knows what the animals will be worth in 2 years. A couple years in this market changes prices drastically. Weigh the pros and cons of buying females that size and if its worth it to you. I wouldn't recommend buying them and trying to flip the 2 for one bigger one. That will prolly leave you waiting a while. If you wanna buy them to raise them to try and breed in fall 2013, that's up to you...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

No power feeding. They are normally getting appropriately sized rats every 5-6 days depending on my work schedule.

I'm not so much impatient as "enthusiastic" :)

I have decided to pass on the smaller ~225g females I started this thread about and just concentrate on my existing stock for next season. Here they are along with my little Butter for 2014 season. Best pics I could get on my cell. My daughter is in photograpy and she "borrowed" my Canon IS-10 :(

1.0 Lesser- 280g and ready for a shed
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...718_193120.jpg

0.1 Pinstripe- 490g and also ready for a shed
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...718_161659.jpg

0.1 Spider- 425g fresh off a shed
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...718_154010.jpg

My little Butter for 2014 at a whopping 125g
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...718_194436.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dreese88

Dude, you seem like you're way too impatient. I've bred 18 month old girls before, but they've been over 2000 g when they began breeding. Don't be in such a rush and don't be so concerned with what brings more cash where. If you like the snakes, get them if not don't, when you're dealing with animals it's nearly impossible to know when they'll be ready to breed, as they generally do it when they're good and ready to do so. Slow down, take some time to enjoy your animals and they will do their thing when they feel like it.

Patience is such a big part of this, but you'll learn that

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x3

Sorry, I should have clarified that usually people that are impatient will powerfeed an animal to get it up to size quickly for faster breeding. To get those animals ready in one year would certainly require a lot of food in a short period of time, which isn't healthy.

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Originally Posted by satomi325

Impatience and ball python breeding do not go hand in hand. Patience is the key!
If you wanted to breed fast, just pick up breeder size girls.

Anyway, back to your question. Yes. It is doable to grow out those girls in time if they are consistent feeders. If you mean by next fall being 2013, then that's plenty of time. Not sure about this coming fall.
I have a late 2011 Mojave born in December that is 800g now. She grows at least 100+g a month. She's a beast.

But remember that just because they reach breeding size does not mean they are sexually mature. It takes at least 2+ years for a female to reach sexual maturity. If these girls were born this year, it would be safer to breed them after their second winter.

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this is incorrect

A few things strike me when I see people just getting into ball pythons in a rush (enthusiastic) about breeding as quickly as they can. One - I suspect that they probably won't be in the "game" long term. Two - they haven't thought everything through. Like being picky over their breeding stock when it comes to quality, the patience it takes to get these critters to breed - just because they get to size doesn't mean they're going to go next season. Three - it also takes time and patience to build your reputation in this community, and one doesn't want to build a reputation that they take shortcuts, that they don't pay attention to detail, etc.

I'd be less concerned about how quickly you can breed, and more concerned about selecting the best examples of the mutations you want to work with, and raising them up, no matter if they breed in 2013 or 2014. Buy what YOU are interested in, not in what you think the market will be interested in - because the market is very fickle. And chances are you may not sell all your babies, so you should produce babies that you like caring for.

I certainly appreciate all the constructive criticism, but no need to hammer on my reputation and of me taking shortcuts? I'm just getting started and expected a more warm welcome to the hobby. I'm 43 years old and work as a RN in the ER, so I have plenty of patience. I am also a foster home for Florida Parrot Rescue to several Amazon's (birds) that most people discard when they hit sexual maturity and get a little "fussy". I am frequently called to take in the nastiest of Amazons to tame them for permanent homes- with great success I may add. It takes several months to get a ill behaved Amazon that could slice your finger to the bone, to become trusting to a freindly hand. I don't make a nickel off fostering- it costs a lot of gas money to pick up a bird and feed and house it for several months. I was just asking in the OP if it was a feesable possibilty to get the girls to weight from ~225g... knowing they may not mate anyways, by next fall.

I went to a few expos here in FL and my friend has a few BP's that he does not breed- I have been interested for years, but never took the opportunity to own a BP myself till the last few months. I am 100% certain I did not get the top notch quality of my breeds, but they surely look very nice to me.... I could have selected a nicer quality Pinstripe- even in my eyes, but I liked her attitude best and all my snakes were bought from a reputable local breeder. This is not a business for me, but a hobby.

My breeding goal before I even bought any females was to breed for a BEL. Thats why I bought my pretty (in my eyes) 1.0 Lesser and waited a few months for a very clean 0.1 Butter hatchling my breeder said he would be able to let go of after her shed and a few feedings. I certainly like the possibility of having some Kingpin and Lesserbee hatchlings from my stock as well. They are all "family" to me and I will work with them diligently no matter if they breed at all.

If someone would so kindly recommend to me what would be my next best selection to get to my ultimate goal of breeding for a Nuclear Spider down the road that would be great :) If my thinking is correct I may be well served buying a 1.0 Fire x Butter to breed to my 0.1 Spider down the road. I could always try a 1.0 Fire to breed to my 0.1 Butter and hope for a 1.0 Fire x Butter, but that seems a longshot considering the odds of getting the morph and a male??

If any of you would like to visit some forums where I build custom rifles and handload ammunition for them feel free to drop me a line. I'll give you some constructive criticism, so you don't blow your hands off and not treat you like you were a 16yo kid.

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Originally Posted by coreydelong

If any of you would like to visit some forums where I build custom rifles and handload ammunition for them feel free to drop me a line. I'll give you some constructive criticism, so you don't blow your hands off and not treat you like you were a 16yo kid.

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You might be surprised at what some of us could teach you over there too;)

I saw your post as most others here did too.
I am probably the most impatient person in the world but the balls have slowed me down a lot.
You have to remember this is a message board and we can only go by what we see on the monitor.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

You might be surprised at what some of us could teach you over there too;)

I saw your post as most others here did too.
I am probably the most impatient person in the world but the balls have slowed me down a lot.
You have to remember this is a message board and we can only go by what we see on the monitor.

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I'll glady take any tips to improve on my F-Class Masters NRA classification at 1000yds.

My rack is arriving Monday evening, so I can get these beauties all in one place in the house. I went with a C-Serpents V70, 5 tub adult rack to start with. I like the 1/2" PVC and they are local, so shipping is not an issue. Thermosat controlled with 4" belly heat. I can also verify temps with my Exergen DX501 in each tub individually. I also have a Raytek MT-4, but it's not quite as accurate as the Exergen. Fed everyone today and they were all too anxious after 5 days. It seems strange, but my Butter will only consume if the rat pup is still partially alive?? I mean like still a little squealing alive!!

I absolutely LOVE the Lesser and the Spider. The Spider is my very favorite. She is such an explorer.... she didn't want to leave my arm as I worked around the house for an hour. She did seem quite curious in the bird room though :O

Takes time to get females up to breeding size. I raise them up for 3 years and sometimes I give them 4 before pairing them up.