Swapped new BP over to tub instead of tank.

I used Vypyrz sticky up top and made a tub for my new BP today. I decided to swap after having issues keeping the heat consistent in my 20g long tank. I really like how it turned out.

http://s9.postimage.org/gq307q5cf/0714122322.jpg
http://s13.postimage.org/9eaj3kph3/0714122304.jpg
http://s7.postimage.org/z0nlgs47v/0714122324.jpg



I'm using the 30-40G Zilla heat pad (covers about exactly 1/2 of the tub). I'm still trying to get the temp high enough inside for him. It seems like I'm going to have to set the thermostat close to 100 to get the surface temp of the substrate to 90. Is that normal?

Also, should I use a very small amount of substrate in a tub setup? It seems like I barely want to cover the plastic or it will reduce the heat from the UTH too much.

Thanks for reading my thread, and thanks for all the information I've already received from fellow forum dwellers, as always suggestions are more than welcome. :)

Yes it's normal that you have to set the temp on the thermostat high. Mine is at 98 right now with a hotspot of 90. It takes a while for the temps to balance out so you'll have to keep plying with it. Good move on switching, I LOVE my tubs!!!!:gj:

Excellent looking set up!

You can get a tub for under $10 at home depot with a locking lid. That way you wouldnt need those straps

You don't want the surface of the substrate at 90. You want the surface temperature of the tub under the substrate at 90. Your snake will get to it when it needs to. The thickness of the substrate on the hot side should not be thicker than about 1/2 inch.

Sent from my Motorola ATRIX using Tapatalk 2.

No that is not normal tubs transmit most of the heat typically I would expect to see only one degree heat loss. The temp should be measured on the floor the hottest part should not be above 94º with tubs typically I would not set a t-stat above 94º. The second thing the hot spot should NOT be 1/2 the floor space It should MAX at 1/3! This should be adjusted.

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What is the cool end temps and air temps?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

No that is not normal tubs transmit most of the heat typically I would expect to see only one degree heat loss. The temp should be measured on the floor the hottest part should not be above 94º with tubs typically I would not set a t-stat above 94º. The second thing the hot spot should NOT be 1/2 the floor space It should MAX at 1/3! This should be adjusted.

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What is the cool end temps and air temps?

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I think I have too much substrate or something because my cool end temp is only 76 right now and that is way too low. My hot end is mostly 83ish, which is also too low. If I IR gun the actual plastic above the UTH it's 92 right now.

I just took a bunch of the aspen out and made a consistent thin layer, I'm hoping this will get the ambient air temp up a bit in there for him.

The second thing the hot spot should NOT be 1/2 the floor space It should MAX at 1/3! This should be adjusted
I decided to cover 1/2 of the floor space because I live in Idaho and it gets very cold here during winter. Also the 1/2 is still not heating it up for me enough in there. I have the thermostat set at about 98 and the plastic temp is 92 with ambient air too cold.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vypyrz

You don't want the surface of the substrate at 90. You want the surface temperature of the tub under the substrate at 90. Your snake will get to it when it needs to. The thickness of the substrate on the hot side should not be thicker than about 1/2 inch.

Sent from my Motorola ATRIX using Tapatalk 2.

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This is what I'm shooting for, but I feel like 76 cold side, 83 warm side is a bit cold in there for ambient temp. I've seem to of hit the sweet spot of 92-93 on the PLASTIC by having my thermostat set at 98. The probe from the accurite is sitting right on the plastic above the UTH as well, and it's reporting 91.

Maybe I should close up some of the vent holes so the heat stays in better?

You need the vent holes Ideally the ambient air temps should be around the 78-85 range and cool surface in the 80 ish range. You need to build a gradient, 1/2 the floor covered will not alter the ambient temps just make the gradient that much harder to manage. It goes against most of the commonly accepted knowledge. UTH drop off quickly there usually is no gradient at all so your hot spot is simply too large and the temp usually drops off sharply outside the area it is. UTH do not alter air temps in any substantial way so closing off ventilation is begging for health issues and increases the potential for RI.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ons-The-Basics

I live in Nova Scotia so I get cold. Sadly tubs do not hold heat well at all. The solution most use is to heat the room to 80º the correct ambient temp. that is over kill for a single snake and tub. I don't usually suggest tubs in single set ups due to the very limited heating options. The only real choices are uth and they simply do not touch air temps at all. One method some have used is to place the tub in a open fronted box and have secondary heating in the box (regulated bulb) to keep the cool end and air temps correct with out resorting to heating a huge space. Many suggest solutions with out discussing the downsides. Tanks are have many more heating options and humidity is simply not that critical, heat is.

alternative set up for aquariums...
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...arium-Solution

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

You need the vent holes Ideally the ambient air temps should be around the 78-85 range and cool surface in the 80 ish range. You need to build a gradient, 1/2 the floor covered will not alter the ambient temps just make the gradient that much harder to manage. It goes against most of the commonly accepted knowledge. UTH drop off quickly there usually is no gradient at all so your hot spot is simply too large and the temp usually drops off sharply outside the area it is. UTH do not alter air temps in any substantial way so closing off ventilation is begging for health issues and increases the potential for RI.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ons-The-Basics

I live in Nova Scotia so I get cold. Sadly tubs do not hold heat well at all. The solution most use is to heat the room to 80º the correct ambient temp. that is over kill for a single snake and tub. I don't usually suggest tubs in single set ups due to the very limited heating options. The only real choices are uth and they simply do not touch air temps at all. One method some have used is to place the tub in a open fronted box and have secondary heating in the box (regulated bulb) to keep the cool end and air temps correct with out resorting to heating a huge space. Many suggest solutions with out discussing the downsides. Tanks are have many more heating options and humidity is simply not that critical, heat is.

alternative set up for aquariums...
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...arium-Solution

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This saddens me because I just made the switch to the tub from an aquarium. I can't keep the room at 80 either, it's far too large to heat up and is commonly used by me and my girlfriend.

What if I cut out a section of the lid and put heat resistant screen over it and put my heat lamp back on? 60w red bulb with a dimmer just to strictly raise the ambient temp?

Would this risk burning him if he raised up to the lamp resting on the screen? Is this overkill?
http://s13.postimage.org/kdr8cifhz/Untitled.jpg

I would be concerned that this is too much heat in a small area. Tubs are such a small surface area that a lamp often produces too much heat. Did the thinner layer of substrate help? I don't like seeing over 94º anywhere inside an enclosure unless it is over head ad then not more than 100º. Less substrate should correct the hot side issues. I usually have only a small bit on the hot side. Less than a 1/4 inch. You might find that a towel folded on top of the lid to help some. IR guns can only measure surface temps BTW. When it gets quite cool out you may find placing a box around the tub so it is 6-10 inches larger one side open (box turned on its side) and adding a heating pad on low to the 'back' or ceiling' of the box will add to the air temp inside the tub. A dark blue bulb might as well but a dimmer would likely be needed.

Tubs simply do not have good insulation. Currently figure something out to get the right range when the snake gets a bit older and bigger close to adult size if you still have a single snake I would strongly suggest a 'reptile' enclosure they are designed for the purpose and usually are the easiest to maintain.

I feel like such a sh** pointing out out things like this but so few actually mention that temps can be hard in tubs located in cooler room temps. I am sorry for that. I run a rack in a cool room and it takes heroic efforts to keep it correct and stable. The PVCx enclosures I have look great and better yet are easy to heat efficient and do a decent job of humidity. It might be an option that will fit your needs in the future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

I would be concerned that this is too much heat in a small area. Tubs are such a small surface area that a lamp often produces too much heat. Did the thinner layer of substrate help? I don't like seeing over 94º anywhere inside an enclosure unless it is over head ad then not more than 100º. Less substrate should correct the hot side issues. I usually have only a small bit on the hot side. Less than a 1/4 inch. You might find that a towel folded on top of the lid to help some. IR guns can only measure surface temps BTW. When it gets quite cool out you may find placing a box around the tub so it is 6-10 inches larger one side open (box turned on its side) and adding a heating pad on low to the 'back' or ceiling' of the box will add to the air temp inside the tub. A dark blue bulb might as well but a dimmer would likely be needed.

Tubs simply do not have good insulation. Currently figure something out to get the right range when the snake gets a bit older and bigger close to adult size if you still have a single snake I would strongly suggest a 'reptile' enclosure they are designed for the purpose and usually are the easiest to maintain.

I feel like such a sh** pointing out out things like this but so few actually mention that temps can be hard in tubs located in cooler room temps. I am sorry for that. I run a rack in a cool room and it takes heroic efforts to keep it correct and stable. The PVCx enclosures I have look great and better yet are easy to heat efficient and do a decent job of humidity. It might be an option that will fit your needs in the future.

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Thanks a ton for the information. The lower substrate helped a bit, but as said before it's the ambient temp I'm worried about.

I'm going to try out my idea, and keep a 60w bulb at a very low heat level. The lamp has a dimmer on it so I can keep it low and not overheat the enclosure. If it does indeed get too hot, I can just buy a new lid for this thing. It would only cost a couple dollars. I'm going to use small little spacers to get the lamp just above the screen so he doesn't reach up and touch the lamp sitting on the screen. The only goal is just to get some hotter air inside the enclosure, it only needs to go up about 4-5 degrees.

I'll just invest in a real snake enclosure when he gets a bit bigger or by winter time. Hell, if I can't get this at least reasonable I'll just try to pick one up sooner.

http://s9.postimage.org/4x74k2tn3/image.jpg
http://s10.postimage.org/yxlm2bxzt/image.jpg Little spacers so the metal isn't resting right on the screen.
http://s10.postimage.org/9c9e2has9/image.jpg



It's a 60w red night bulb. I have the dimmer set pretty low, just where the light starts becoming visible.

I'll check the temps in 1 hour and update this post.

Okay so...

http://s11.postimage.org/huasrtoc3/image.jpg RED: Ambient. YELLOW: IR on substrate





Two problems so far that I really see. Because of the light being where it's at, the top of that right hide plastic is about 95 degrees and most likely still rising. Also the humidity is at 77 on that left unit and 56 on the right unit. I think that having the light so close is making that water evaporate really quickly, and raising the humidity way too much.

Hmm you may try lifting the lamp up say 3 inches or so that will reduce that direct heat but with a little luck hold the ambient temps. It is quite likely about the RH perhaps a bit of space will help there some too.

I have the same tub setup as you do except for the light. I use larger tubs so the UTH doesn't cover so much of the bottom of the tub. I used balled up paper to cover up some of the space when my BPs were smaller. I close off the vents in the summer time in the room I kept them in. I hope you get it figured out. Tubs are so much better than tanks.

I have a heat like fan my parents use in the winter pointed at the tubs. Helps keep ambient in the low 80's.

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Hmm you may try lifting the lamp up say 3 inches or so that will reduce that direct heat but with a little luck hold the ambient temps. It is quite likely about the RH perhaps a bit of space will help there some too.

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Tried it, 20m in the temp was already dropping because not enough heat was actually making it into the hole. It must of been dispersing out instead of directly in.


The snake is in our most busy room of the house, but kind of in a corner of it so he's not super stressed. I don't really have a room I can put him in that I can bring the temp. in the room up to 80 in this apartment we have. I decided just to put him back in the tank for now, and I swapped everything over for him. I feel so bad moving him back and forth but as soon as I get it all set I will leave him alone for a week or so to calm down.

My girl loves to open windows when its cold out to save on AC, and she likes to keep the house around or under 70. I think he's going to be safer in the tank for now, temp wise. I'll get a third hide and put some moss in there for a good amount of humidity when he starts to shed.

I'm really disappointed because I loved the idea of the tub. In the next few weeks I may try to make some sort of box for the tub to sit in, and I already know exactly how to build the tub now. (without the heat lamp)

I was considering just doing the two UTH's with separate thermostats to control hot-cold, but this still won't really solve the ambient heat.

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The tank seems so much easier for me to get correct now.


Left side is hot side, right side is cold side.

http://s10.postimage.org/y6dhverax/0715121601.jpg


Ambient temp is 81 on hot side, 80 on cold side.

Substrate temp is 91 under hot hide and 80 under cold hide.

Humidity is 50-60 (left is in 50's, right is in 60's)

(Probes are not in tank, since I'm using two)

I'll be doing a small amount of tweaking to the light, probably increasing the heat and moving it further to the left side, to get more of a gradient in ambient temp.

I have a heat like fan my parents use in the winter pointed at the tubs. Helps keep ambient in the low 80's.