Took my baby girl to the vet today...

I took Ajja to the vet just to have her checked out, more of a preventative check up than anything. She hasn't eaten since I brought her home on the 30th, so that was a concern. She IS a ball, though, so I wasn't ready to panic. My other concern was her size. The shop I got her from at the SD Reptile Show said she was about 6 weeks old when THEY got her from the breeder, which would put her at about 9-10 weeks now. I'm not 100% sure I believe she's that old. She's noticeably thin, but not sickly looking, if that makes sense. She's about 15in and weighs 66 grams. I was also told that all of the babies they were selling were feeding weekly on hopper mice. I'm not completely sure I believe that either. I'm not an expert by ANY means, but based on her length and girth, I feel like fuzzies are more appropriate. Now if I can just get her to eat one...

The other issue we found was mites. We only saw two on her and they were tiny, nearly microscopic. She's never gotten in her water to soak, so I hadn't seen any signs of them. Still, those have to be treated as well. Fortunately, husbandry hasn't been an issue in terms of temps or humidity, and she's got matching hides at both ends of her enclosure. For the time being, she's on white paper towels for substrate, and I'll make another attempt to feed her Monday night. The vet gave her metronidazole, both to take care of any parasites she might have (she was captive bred in the US, but better safe than sorry) and to stimulate her appetite. We're treating the mites with Frontline, once today and again in three weeks. Hopefully, we'll get the mite issue resolved pretty quickly. It DOES seem like we caught and started treating before it became a full blown infestation. With any luck, getting rid of those little demons and giving her the metro will get her feeding. To be fair, I have to admit that some of the fault, at least, is my own. I've been guilty of some rookie mistakes with her. Most notably, handling her when she hasn't been feeding regularly. That's being rectified as well. Keep your fingers crossed.

There are a few lessons here that I think are worth pointing out, even though the majority of the members here may already have known them.

1. Do the PROPER research. I was told Ajja was about 7-8 weeks old and eating hoppers when I got her. She might have been, but the fact is, I don't know for sure. I have no idea when the last time she ate was, and if that contributes to any problems she has now or in the future, it's my own fault for not verifying what I was told.

2. The frequently mentioned advice about not handling a new python until she's started eating regularly is repeated for a reason. While Ajja seems to genuinely like being handled, I'm not a snake psychologist. If she's awake when I put my hand into her enclosure, she nearly always will slither into my hand, but I still feel like a jerk for possibly contributing to her stress.

3. Go to the vet! I see a lot of questions here that are answered with some variation of that advice. Most often, it's a sick snake or some change that seems abnormal. I'd recommend going one step further than that. Go to the vet when you DON'T need to. An office visit and an exam should be well under $100. That's a pretty good price for a little peace of mind.

4. Husbandry cannot be overemphasized. The first answer to every "what's wrong with my snake" question is always about husbandry. Most of the time that fixes whatever the problem was. In addition to that, if your snake gets sick and your husbandry is already spot on, you've already eliminated one possible cause of the illness. You're already that much closer to finding a cause and fixing it, not wasting valuable time adjusting things that should have been addressed before the snake came home.


Like I said before, I'm by no means an expert on Ball Pythons, and most of you already know all of this. I just wanted to put it out there in case it helps even one snake.

-Ryan-

From your description I'd bet that hopper mice are fine... Espicially if you are trying to put some initial weight on him.

I strongly agree with you on proper husbandry fixing most issues. Always the first thing I bring up in threads.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

From your description I'd bet that hopper mice are fine... Espicially if you are trying to put some initial weight on him.

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I'm not really opposed to trying to get her to take hoppers. I looked at both sizes when I bought mice, and the hoppers just seemed a little large. The recommendations I've seen for prey size have ranged from slightly smaller at the hips than the thickest portion of the snake, to slightly larger than the girth of the snake. Ajja's thickness falls right in the middle of the two. It seemed to me that there would be less chance of her regurgitating a slightly smaller meal as opposed to one that was a bit too large. On the other hand, she can't very well regurgitate until she eats one or the other.

I'll give the hoppers a try when I feed her Monday. Who knows, maybe they have a bag of frozen runts that are just the right size!

They can eat rodents much larger than we generally recommend... I would go with hoppers to make sure that he is getting enough food.

Have you been offering her live or f/t prey? If you haven't already, I would suggest trying live and then making the switch to f/t when she's a bit bigger (assuming you want to feed f/t).

My ball pythons all take hopper mice or fuzzy rats for their very first meal. Unless she weighs 30 grams, go with hoppers, nothing smaller. Some ball pythons will not eat prey that they judge to be too small. At 66 grams, she needs hoppers, not fuzzies or smaller.
She is the size of a newly hatched ball python, so I think your guess that she's not been eating is correct.

Absolutely stop handling until the snake is eating.

The most important thing is to get the snake eating. If it already looks thin, it's obviously not eaten in a while, and hatchlings don't have the bodily reserves to fast for long periods. You can't be sure how long she's gone without food already. I recommend reading up and using all the tricks used to get baby snakes to accept their first meal--for all you know, it will be her first meal.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

From your description I'd bet that hopper mice are fine... Espicially if you are trying to put some initial weight on him.

I strongly agree with you on proper husbandry fixing most issues. Always the first thing I bring up in threads.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

They can eat rodents much larger than we generally recommend... I would go with hoppers to make sure that he is getting enough food.

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Agreed! Normal hopper sized mice fall in the 7.5-10g range, plus or minus a gram. That is the PERFECT size meal for a 66g ball (approximately 10-15% body weight). Fuzzies are usually between 3-8g (which might be a little small). Underfeeding is a major issue in this hobby. If you're dead set on feeding fuzzies, you might want to offer your ball a second.

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Originally Posted by FireStorm

Have you been offering her live or f/t prey? If you haven't already, I would suggest trying live and then making the switch to f/t when she's a bit bigger (assuming you want to feed f/t).

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This. Younger balls which aren't well established eaters can be extremely difficult to get started on f/t. Some will take it without issue, most won't. I believe your first priority is getting a little weight on your snake and several consecutive meals in it before trying f/t. After it eats readily on its own, then you can try switching to f/t.

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

We're treating the mites with Frontline, once today and again in three weeks. Hopefully, we'll get the mite issue resolved pretty quickly. It DOES seem like we caught and started treating before it became a full blown infestation. With any luck, getting rid of those little demons and giving her the metro will get her feeding.

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Dog Frontline? Cat Frontline? I have never heard of Frontline being used for snake mites.

First of all, I want to say thank you to everyone who's replied to this thread so far. I really do appreciate all of your suggestions. I'm sure Ajja does too, since every rookie mistake you guys help me avoid is one more thing that she won't have to put up with.

I'll be picking up hoppers this afternoon. I've been offering her F/T, on the assumption that she was eating before. At this point, I'm going to assume she hasn't eaten at all, so if I can find live, I'll pick one up. If not, I'll just get frozen and brain one. If that's the case, I guess we'll find out how good I am at the zombie mouse dance. I would prefer to feed her F/T, but it's not really about what I want, and I completely agree that getting her to eat at ALL is the priority. Hell, if the only thing I can get her to take is a three legged mole rat with bad eyesight, I'll make it happen.

Annarose - Yep, Frontline. The one for puppies and kittens. I thought it was a little odd too. I did some research before using it, and it turns out it's not uncommon. The vet I took her to was Dr. Thomas Boyer, DVM. He's one of the two vets who founded ARAV, so I feel pretty safe following his recommendations. Still, I've been keeping a pretty close eye on her since I treated her. It's probably still too early to tell how effective it's going to be, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed and I'll let you know about the results.

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

First of all, I want to say thank you to everyone who's replied to this thread so far. I really do appreciate all of your suggestions. I'm sure Ajja does too, since every rookie mistake you guys help me avoid is one more thing that she won't have to put up with.

I'll be picking up hoppers this afternoon. I've been offering her F/T, on the assumption that she was eating before. At this point, I'm going to assume she hasn't eaten at all, so if I can find live, I'll pick one up. If not, I'll just get frozen and brain one. If that's the case, I guess we'll find out how good I am at the zombie mouse dance. I would prefer to feed her F/T, but it's not really about what I want, and I completely agree that getting her to eat at ALL is the priority. Hell, if the only thing I can get her to take is a three legged mole rat with bad eyesight, I'll make it happen.

Annarose - Yep, Frontline. The one for puppies and kittens. I thought it was a little odd too. I did some research before using it, and it turns out it's not uncommon. The vet I took her to was Dr. Thomas Boyer, DVM. He's one of the two vets who founded ARAV, so I feel pretty safe following his recommendations. Still, I've been keeping a pretty close eye on her since I treated her. It's probably still too early to tell how effective it's going to be, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed and I'll let you know about the results.

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I was wondering the same thing on Frontline, since it works in a unique way with mammals, and I'm not sure how it interacts with a snake's body specifically. From doing some reading, it does seem that some people use it, and I haven't found anything stating negative effects either. Good to know about ARAV though, and sounds like you're doing some good research.

A hopper is definitely not too large for your snake, If you can't find a live hopper mouse, see if you can find a barely larger than fuzzy rat (just before their eyes open, but they can still awkwardly crawl around). If you think hoppers are too large, you'll definitely think the fuzzy rats are too large, but most of our hatchlings start out on fuzzy rats, and most of our hatchlings range from 65-80 grams. We'll use a rat pink for the extra tiny ones. They are attracted not only to the smell (some prefer either mice or rats to start with as hatchlings), but if the movement isn't just right, some might refuse whatever you stick in there. Mice/rats that are too tiny, just kind of lay there, and while some snakes will still take them, a lot of our hatchlings refuse unless the rodent wobbles just the right way. Depending on your area (check craigslist too), you may have an easier time of finding rats or mice of various sizes. Don't offer food until it starts getting dark, gently place the appropriate meal with them, then close the tub, and leave it alone for a few moments to see if it's interested.

Got a live hopper waiting to go once it gets a little darker. I also picked up a couple 3ml syringes and 18g needles from work last night. If worse comes to worst, I'm going to extract a little brain matter from one of the fuzzies in the freezer and use it to bait the live hopper. No sense in them going to waste. I'm hoping she'll take the hopper without the extra encouragement though. She's been poking her head out of the hide and flicking her tongue like she's waiting for something tasty to drop by, so that's encouraging. I'll update a little later.

UPDATE:

So I had the live hopper all ready to go and a thawed fuzzy standing by to contribute some gray matter if needed. As I said, she had been putting on the hungry snake show while I was waiting for dinnertime, so I was really optimistic about the likelihood of getting a meal in her. When the time came (finally) to present this furry little prize, I very slowly and carefully opened the lid and quietly lowered the hopper into the tank. Ajja just watched it scurry past her hide to the other side of the tank. Crap! At this point, I decided to leave the room and give her some privacy. Maybe she's just having a little performance anxiety. I took a last look at the temps and humidity, and turned off the night lamp over the hide she was in. As soon as I turned to walk away, I caught a glimpse of her slowly flowing out of the hide, tongue flickering like mad and her pits locked onto the mouse. I didn't want to spook or distract her, so I froze. The mouse, on the other hand, didn't have a clue what was going on. As soon as it moved, it got the business end of a little scaly lightning bolt! She hit that mouse like a freight train. She struck so hard that the momentum carried the mouse a good eight inches across the tank. I'm pretty sure she broke its neck when she hit, because the mouse was completely limp when she started throwing coils on it.

24 hours later, and she's keeping it down. She's also come out a few times and switched hides. I'm really relieved that I was able to get some food in her in a relatively short time. I'm also really proud of her and how aggressive that feeding response was. On the other hand, I can't help but wonder what would have happened if I had offered a live hopper at the first feeding attempt. Either way though, she ate, and that's the important thing.

Thanks again to everyone who suggested getting her started on live hoppers. I can honestly say I think it made ALL the difference.

Big congrats!!! It's such a relief when a non feeding snake finally eats.

Solid post with a happy ending.

It sucks that they don't hand out that list at the bottom of your opening post with the purchase of every ball python.