Pleas help! Can I use NIX lice shampoo for mites on ball pythons?

Hi,

I am am very new to owning and caring for snakes. Last month I bought my son a ball python at the pet store. I have been taking care of her while he is at his dad's for the summer. She is in a 20 gallon long tank and was eating live hopper mice when we got her and last time I fed her the next size up. Well, before I got him the ball (the guy at the pet store said that would make a good first time snake) but I wanted a scarlet king snake and they didn't have one. So I was on craigslist last week and ran across an ad for a Pueblan Milk snake hatchling and I went and met the guy and he had a female ball in a pillowcase and she looked skinny and he said he'd give her to me for $20 and I didn't really want to but she was all skinny and wrinkly looking. I told him I didn't have a tank to put her in and he said oh you can put her in there with your ball so I did and the very next day I went out and got her a tank. First thing the poor thing did was drinking water and stuff and she's in a 10 gallon now and ate a small mouse and now is just balled up under a log.

Day before yesterday I noticed when me and my friend tried to get Ozzy (my son's snake) out and handle her she was grumpy and even striked at my friend and I thought well maybe she is about to shed or something. I ran some water in the bath tub and let her swim around a bit and had done a few nights before with the new one. I do not think Ozzy likes my friend bc she was all tensed up in the water mad looking straight at him and then I told him get a paper towel roll in case she tries to strike so as soon as he walked out of the room she started swimming and stuff. I do not want her biting my son when he gets home and my friend was making me scared that was going to happen so I thought I'm gonna have to handle her alot more to get her somewhat tame or at least not afraid to be held.

Yesterday I watched some YouTube videos and found a great one and did exactly what the guy said and it worked like a charm she hung out on my son's bed and we went outside together and stuff and she did not get in her grumpy "S" position at me and so I learned how to put her back in her cage and all was great until this morning when I turned the lights on the 3 tanks. I opened up the door that leads to the shower to let some of the steam get in there for a little humidity and went in there and Ozzy was unusually moving around at 5:30am when she is usually sleeping so I looked at her and this little black bug was on her face and I'm like OH NO!!!! NOT MITES!!! My dogs got those mange mites last summer when a mange dog squeezed in thru my fenced in back yard and now I'm freaking watching videos about snake mites. Well I came across one video that is a 3 part video of a guy from canada that put a bottle of NIX lice shampoo in with a gallon of water and made a really diluted mixture and put his carpet pythons in a ice cooler while he sprayed that stuff all in the aspen and on every inch of the enclosure and showed how he got the snakes out and towel dried them and had put newspaper in there and sprayed it all again before he put them in this enclosure. He said it wouldn't hurt them but...his snakes were very large mine are all small.

Has anyone ever tried this? I just read on another forum where a girl poisoned her king snake and had a youtube link to it and it looked like my little Pueblan Milk Snake except hers was a little bigger. The 2 10 gallon tanks that house my milk snake and the new ball are on a stand where they are one on top of the other and the 20 long that houses "Ozzy" is on top of my son's entertainment center. All are in his room right now. I am thinking that the ball python the guy off craigslist gave the mites to Ozzy bc I didn't have a tank for her and so I have gone to Walmart and bought the NIX, a rubbermaid tub, a gallon of water, a spray bottle, a funnel, some 20 mule borax to put all over the carpet, clorox to clean all the decor and paper towels to line the tanks with. I held the smaller ball python and milk snake also last night for a few minutes and it didn't look like it had anything on it. It mainly stays buried in the aspen bedding. I had tried to feed him a pinky Friday but he wouldn't take it but wondered if he would eat crickets when I buy some for my 7 year old leopard gecko. Both ball pythons I noticed the other day has a few little white specks on them & I was hoping that was just from the aspen bedding I'm using.

Can my Leopard Gecko get these mites from the snakes if her enclosure is not in the same room as the snakes? I haven't handled her since I got the new snakes. And can dogs, cats and humans get them too? Like if I petted my dog after handling the snake. Sorry for all the questions I am new at this and I do not want to kill our snakes. I really only got the other ball python mainly to see if I could save her life bc she was so scrawny.

If you have any advice on what to do I would sincerely appreciate your help.

i heard some success stories with NIX but PAM (Prevent-A-Mite) is your best bet! http://www.pro-products.com/index.ph...d=53&Itemid=59

There's a HUGE debate as to whether NIX and the sorts is safe, I however would NEVER recommend it. My best advice is to buy Provent-a-mite. You use the Provent-a-mite (PAM for short) on the ENCLOSURE when it arrives. Until then, switch the substrate to newspaper or paper towels, be sure to clean it out first. Leave out any decor you have and only keep a water dish and hides. Once the PAM arrives, be sure to read the directions EXACTLY. Soak him daily in luke warm water with a drop of Dawn dish soap to help drown any mites on him....

Just hang in there, if you use PAM they'll be gone within days. I don't believe your gecko can get them as they only really affect reptiles with scales.

I would not recommend homebrew remedy to someone that is not experienced with such treatment, even if experienced this product was not manufactured to used with reptiles and long term effects are not known.

Provent a mite is what is needed and was designed to be used with reptiles.

Finally mites are species specific.

Thank you! I had read about provent a mite and that it has the same ingredients or something like that but I don't want to take that chance of what I saw that poor little king snake acting like its nervous system was messed up. I actually read the article she was referring to and the guy said put it with 4 liters of water and she had said on her post that she did 2 liters of water. Do you actually spray this on the snake or just in the enclosure? Ozzy hates to be sprayed even with just water.

Does the Petco's and Pet Smart's carry this product or do you have to order it online? The Wal-Marts around where I live do not carry anything for reptiles!! I couldn't even find the accurite thermometer I read you guys talking about on another thread the other day so I could get those while I'm there. I'm not supposed to submerge their heads am I? because I really don't want to do that. :confusd:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KEG22

Does the Petco's and Pet Smart's carry this product or do you have to order it online? The Wal-Marts around where I live do not carry anything for reptiles!! I couldn't even find the accurite thermometer I read you guys talking about on another thread the other day so I could get those while I'm there. I'm not supposed to submerge their heads am I? because I really don't want to do that. :confusd:

---

They don't sell PAM so you'll have to order it online. They do sell MITE OFF, but don't waste your money! I was told it's basically water mixed with soap. At the mean time, soak your snake in warm water and put a few drops of dawn liquid soap. It should get some mites off until you receive your PAM.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KEG22

Thank you! I had read about provent a mite and that it has the same ingredients or something like that but I don't want to take that chance of what I saw that poor little king snake acting like its nervous system was messed up. I actually read the article she was referring to and the guy said put it with 4 liters of water and she had said on her post that she did 2 liters of water. Do you actually spray this on the snake or just in the enclosure? Ozzy hates to be sprayed even with just water.

Does the Petco's and Pet Smart's carry this product or do you have to order it online? The Wal-Marts around where I live do not carry anything for reptiles!! I couldn't even find the accurite thermometer I read you guys talking about on another thread the other day so I could get those while I'm there. I'm not supposed to submerge their heads am I? because I really don't want to do that. :confusd:

---

NO it doesn't go on the snake, remove the snake and water dish completely actually until it dries in the enclosure. The directions are very straightforward once you get it. The only place you can get it is online with the links we sent you, or some reptile specialty shops carry it. Don't waste your money on any petco/petsmart products.

When you soak her, she can be fully submerged. Don't worry she won't drown.

Thank you guys so much!!!! I am getting this stuff ASAP!!!

*knock on wood* never personally had to deal with mites, but from what I have seen Prevent-a-mite (Pam) is the way to go. Just follow directions exactly! I wouldn't use nix near my snakes. Then again its so nasty, I wouldn't use it on my kid either.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

I figured I'd add that I dealt with mites after recieving 3 new snakes with mites. I had to treat my whole collection. As soon as I noticed them, I ordered the PAM. I got one can within a week, and within about another week after treatment there were no signs of mites. One can will last a while, and it's a great preventative too. If you ever add a new snake (or 15 like I did :rolleyes:) it's great to treat the new enclosures. Good luck.

Permethrin the active ingredient in both is quite toxic in its own right. It has been used to kill brown snakes on guam and clearly needs to be treated with respect. There are questions of health in humans and unquestionably with children. I would NOT muck about with it. Used improperly it is lethal to snakes and small mammals. It is a class 3 (of 4) pesticide that requires CAUTION using it. PANNA lists it as a Carcinogen and is looks like it causes developmental issues as well. It is not something to be taken lightly or used with out strict adherence to the instructions.

P-A-M was not developed for reptiles BTW it is an industrial insecticide to treat clothing. It is made by the Coulston International Chemicals (CIC) under the name Cic residual pressurized insecticide no. v. it is just rebranded as P-A-M.

Ok I just ordered it and have my email confirmation. One more quick question. I suspect that both ball pythons have the mites. But the little milksnake is so small would you recommend that I also treat its tank as well since they are all in the same room? Is PAM safe for babies? This is a picture of it before I bought it from the guy.

http://bham.craigslist.org/pet/3114126511.html

Yes, treat any and all snake enclosures.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kitedemon

Permethrin the active ingredient in both is quite toxic in its own right. It has been used to kill brown snakes on guam and clearly needs to be treated with respect. There are questions of health in humans and unquestionably with children. I would NOT muck about with it. Used improperly it is lethal to snakes and small mammals. It is a class 3 (of 4) pesticide that requires CAUTION using it. PANNA lists it as a Carcinogen and is looks like it causes developmental issues as well. It is not something to be taken lightly or used with out strict adherence to the instructions.

P-A-M was not developed for reptiles BTW it is an industrial insecticide to treat clothing. It is made by the Coulston International Chemicals (CIC) under the name Cic residual pressurized insecticide no. v. it is just rebranded as P-A-M.

---

I just ordered it!! What do you recommend using? I've heard about vegetable oil, olive oil, hartz flea and tick shampoo but I don't know what to do because I've never owned a snake until June 22.

If you follow the directions exactly you shouldn't have any issues. PAM is used by an enormous amount of reptile owners.

Keep the PAM away from your geckos. If fact you might want to move your geckos to another room if you're going to be using it. I've killed geckos with this before and I never sprayed their cages, they were just close by.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KEG22

I just ordered it!! What do you recommend using? I've heard about vegetable oil, olive oil, hartz flea and tick shampoo but I don't know what to do because I've never owned a snake until June 22.

---

olive oil, will kill mites on your snake. totally cover the whole snake and make sure you rub it in good in spaces around the eyes and also under the cloacal scale. after a few minutes wipe the snake down and keep either on newspaper or paper towels until the next shed. according to pyhons of the world vol 2 by david and tracy barker.

P-A-M is effective just be careful and treat it with the respect it deserves. I would be tempted to spray the P-A-M outside and wear gloves too. It is not hazardous if used exactly according to the directions. FOLLOW THEM! read it over a few times before use it, and plan out what you are going to do gather the things you need and then use it. Chemicals can bite back and what you do not know WILL hurt you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkS

Keep the PAM away from your geckos. If fact you might want to move your geckos to another room if you're going to be using it. I've killed geckos with this before and I never sprayed their cages, they were just close by.

---

Hi, thank you for the advice. My gecko is in the living room and my snakes are in a separate room and I keep the door shut to that room to avoid the cats and dog to get in there.

I'd just carry the enclosure outside and do it away from everything and with good ventilation if it were me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kitedemon

P-A-M is effective just be careful and treat it with the respect it deserves. I would be tempted to spray the P-A-M outside and wear gloves too. It is not hazardous if used exactly according to the directions. FOLLOW THEM! read it over a few times before use it, and plan out what you are going to do gather the things you need and then use it. Chemicals can bite back and what you do not know WILL hurt you.

---

Thanks for that piece of advice. I will do just that and let them air dry outside also. Will this chemical smell really strong even after it's dried? I don't think my baby peublan milksnake has these mites and I was wondering if I should even spray his enclosure. The reason is because of the neurological damage and finally death of another girl's small king snake from using the nix which does have the same ingredient. I'm not sure if she sprayed it on the snake or in his enclosure but she had sprayed it in her other snakes tanks. I am not sure what happened to the other ones.

Thank you, do I just put some olive oil in a tub and rub it all over them? It's the bigger more aggressive one Ozzy that I worry about biting me. I kind of wish she would go ahead and do it so I won't be afraid of that anymore. LOL I saw a girl trying to do hers with vegetable oil and it was hissing and bit her and she had a little paint brush to put it on its head. I can try that but would you recommend just using my hands and rub it all over them even their heads? How long should I let it stay on them before I dry them off? And do I dry them off with the olive oil on and then return to the enclosure?

I took everything out of there and put a wooden half log in the oven for 1 hour and then sprayed a strong clorox/water solution on all 3 tanks, put all the decorations in bleach water and soaked most of the night, I put the snakes in water with dawn and wiped all the tanks out then put a paper towel bedding in all three tanks only leaving 1 hide and the water dishes which I also soaked then rinsed very well to where I couldn't smell bleach on them.

I had a prescription left from the vet for a dog mange dip I had thought about making up and spraying the bed and carpet while my son is not at home and the smell dies when it dries bc I used it on my couch and everything when my dogs got that last summer. It kills fleas too and I was just afraid if I sprayed the room that the snakes are housed if the fumes from when I first spray it (which its a regular spray bottle not aerosol) but if that could harm them. So I did put 20 mule borax laundry detergent on all the carpet in my house and got it real good and in the carpet with a push broom and going to vacuum it up today. I'm hoping that will kill any that may have gotten in my carpet.

Olive oil will do nothing except smother a few of the mites that are ON the snake. It will NOT kill all of them and it won't do anything for the ones that are walking around the cage laying eggs in the crevices and corners. The main advantage of using P-A-M is that it lasts a VERY long time and will kill mites as they hatch.

I used oil on my snakes before. wanted to give the snake some relief without using something harsh on the snake. it seem to kill them as I didn't see any afterwards on the snake. I also treated the enclosure with pam at the same time. as everyone else stated, read the directions on the can, and make sure the enclosure is dry before placing the snake back in. and if the enclosure doesn't have good ventilation, this might be a reason for bad results when some keepers had problems and others don't.
if one snake has mites and others are kept in the same room. I would treat every enclosure thats in the same area. I only used oil on the snake that I could see the mites on them.

I have never tried oil. I have had to rescue snakes with mites a few times and have always used a few drops of dish soap in water (1/2 the depth of the snake) soak and lots of hard work.

While the snake is soaking in some water with soap. (drowning mites)

Completely clean the enclosure and surrounding area (newspapers and stuff to be discarded need to be paced in a garbage bag a moth ball tossed in sealed up and removed to outside.) the enclosure needs to be washed with steam or scalding water. To kill any eggs in the enclosure. Mites can walk up to 3m away so the surrounding area needs to be isolated. I use diatomaceous earth to do this. I like to use tubs for mite infested snakes, so a tub placed into a larger tub that has the floor covered with the DE this does not allow mites to leave the inner tub or enter it. Then it is a matter of killing as many adults as possible and as many eggs every day for 3 weeks. (EVERY DAY) at this point there is no adults and no eggs and no mites. It is a lot of work. I live in canada and many mite products are simply not available here due to restrictions on Permethrin. This hold true for most of Europe and NY state (cal and florida too? not sure on that.) Dri-Die also works too in place of DE. That is the old school method it works just as well today as it did 15 years ago. It is just a lot of hard work.