Why aren't Dumeril's boas more popular???

Just curious. Red tails are probably the most commonly owned boa, but I dont want a snake that gets that big at the moment. Red tails do have one of the best over all temperaments of any snake you can find in my opinion. But they do get quite large. Dumeril's get nice size, but not huge, have one of the COOLEST patterns of any boa ( once again in my opinion :) ) , have the temperament of a red tail, and are great eaters. But when I told my other snake owning buddies I got a Dumeril's boa, their responses were ( what the heck is a Dumeril's boa?) haha so I'm just wondering why they aren't more popular if they're such AWESOME snakes??

Probably because it's been illegal to export them from Madagascar for quite a while now. Without introducing more from imported snakes there's only so many new ones that can be produced and sold every year.

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Originally Posted by devildog_dk

Probably because it's been illegal to export them from Madagascar for quite a while now. Without introducing more from imported snakes there's only so many new ones that can be produced and sold every year.

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This

In my experience, it doesn't seem they are hard to find. They do seem hard to sell though!

They are neat. I probably ask aaron everytime i see his what morph it is just bc its regular pattern is so neat. I agree with you, their patterns are one of my favorites!

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Originally Posted by devildog_dk

Probably because it's been illegal to export them from Madagascar for quite a while now. Without introducing more from imported snakes there's only so many new ones that can be produced and sold every year.

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Ohh I see. Makes sense. I just found it crazy because I mean they are readily available. I'm just surprised not a lot of people have heard of them. :)

It might have to do with getting them to breed is not as easy as normal red tails.

I had 2 and they were great, out of all the boas I love the dumerils most. And I'm not a Boa person lol

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Originally Posted by Cameron Lamb Exotics

It might have to do with getting them to breed is not as easy as normal red tails.

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Possibly, good point.

I've owned a few dumerils in the past. They were easy to find and easier to sell when we realized they didn't fit into our breeding plans. I really like them and I hope to get another pair in the future when we have more space. Right now our adult redtail takes up a huge portion of our snake room already. I would say that locally they are easier to sell than redtails, but they are harder to find in the classifieds since redtails are so abundant (dumerils posts get buried), and we have 2 major redtail breeders locally.

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Originally Posted by devildog_dk

Probably because it's been illegal to export them from Madagascar for quite a while now. Without introducing more from imported snakes there's only so many new ones that can be produced and sold every year.

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I actually disagree with this reasoning. Why do you think that because they can't be exported that the demand for them would go down? You would think that the demand for them would increase.

I honestly am not quite sure why dumeril's boas aren't as popular. They are really cool snakes, but they still get some size to them. They're definitely no ball python!

But back to the import issue... look at their cousins, the madagascan ground boas. Very similar species and look almost exactly the same, yet their supply is even less than dumeril's which makes them significantly more rare and expensive. These guys are never seen for less than $1,000 each hatching specimen.

Angolan pythons aren't able to be imported anymore, much of which is likely associated with Angola's constant internal conflict. However, these AMAZING snakes are highly prized and valued. These guys are NEVER found for less than $1,500 a pair-- the cheapest I've ever spotted them. I'm actually hoping to get into these little guys.

I tried looking inline and I couldn't find any reasons that say why they aren't as popular.

I was just amazed at how personable they are for a snake!! Because I just reached in my Dumeril's tub to change her water, and she climbed right into my hand! And I've only had for 2 days!! That blew my mind lol

i agree with trak ive owned a dumeril for a cupple months and she is awesome beautiful pattern amazing temperment and i find it had to belive that import is the reason they arent as popular

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Originally Posted by PsychD_Student

I actually disagree with this reasoning. Why do you think that because they can't be exported that the demand for them would go down? You would think that the demand for them would increase.

I honestly am not quite sure why dumeril's boas aren't as popular. They are really cool snakes, but they still get some size to them. They're definitely no ball python!

But back to the import issue... look at their cousins, the madagascan ground boas. Very similar species and look almost exactly the same, yet their supply is even less than dumeril's which makes them significantly more rare and expensive. These guys are never seen for less than $1,000 each hatching specimen.

Angolan pythons aren't able to be imported anymore, much of which is likely associated with Angola's constant internal conflict. However, these AMAZING snakes are highly prized and valued. These guys are NEVER found for less than $1,500 a pair-- the cheapest I've ever spotted them. I'm actually hoping to get into these little guys.

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Their export has been limited since the early/mid 90's. Because of this there wasn't as big of an initial breeding stock.

Pair that with the fact that there aren't many, if any morphs and you get a snake that isn't as well known.

Anyone that knows about them seems to love them... So the issue isn't popularity, but rather exposure.

My Dumerils is always at the front of his tub when there is activity in the room, he dives out of his tub when you open it, and gets, what I would call, panicky when I try to put him away. Always eats great! My son calls him a gamer snake, he will sit with him playing computer games for many hours!

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

So the issue isn't popularity, but rather exposure.

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Good point, if they don't sell them at petco or petsmart then most people don't know they exist!

I love dumerials and there are some interesting morphs they have a t post ( Carmel) and a hypo and I think its called orange dream but don't quote me on that dums will come back I'm sure of it lol but the fact that they can be imported has a serious impact seeing as how most morphs are first found in the wild and let's face snake owners want morphs only a few of us just love the beauty of the animals

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Originally Posted by PsychD_Student

But back to the import issue... look at their cousins, the madagascan ground boas. Very similar species and look almost exactly the same, yet their supply is even less than dumeril's which makes them significantly more rare and expensive. These guys are never seen for less than $1,000 each hatching specimen.

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Both, the Dumerils Boa (Acrantophis Dumerili) and the Madagascar Ground Boa (Acrantophis Madagascariensis) wild populations were listed as Endangered in 1996. Both are listed as CITES Appendix 1, and in 2007, a total ban on exports from Madagascar was enacted. The reason that you can find Dumerils easier than MGB's is simple. An average Dumerils litter will usually average 12-18 nenonates. There are far fewer breeding pairs of MGB's in captivity, combined with the fact that MGB's have the smallest litters and largest babies. MGB litter sizes range from 1-6, with an average of about 3. The average size of a MGB neonate is 18-24 inches, and about 250-300 grams. It is suspected that the two species could interbreed in the border region that separates their native habitats, but no cross breeds have been collected in the wild. In captivity, a few have been successfully bred, possibly to introduce new blood into Dumerils projects. The number of MGB breeders is very few and far between. I only know of one breeder who currently has a gravid female...

I think it has little to do with exportation and more with education. If it wasn't for a friend of mine who owned a Dumerils I would have never heard or considered one. Perhaps their "intermediate" care label turns people away too.

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Originally Posted by fortoday634

Perhaps their "intermediate" care label turns people away too.

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I've heard people say this before..? What's so "intermediate" about them care wise? Is it because of their size? Because their care humidity/temp wise is very similar to Ball Pythons. I just don't see how their "intermediate" lol :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Trackstrong83

I've heard people say this before..? What's so "intermediate" about them care wise? Is it because of their size? Because their care humidity/temp wise is very similar to Ball Pythons. I just don't see how their "intermediate" lol :rolleyes:

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I would take one in a heartbeat. But, it would have to be male. I do not have the space for a Dumerils boa.

From an outsiders point of view (no boas in my collection), I think it's very likely the morph aspect. With boas, you can walk up to someone and have a discussion about genetics and what your plans are for any breeding in the future, etc. With a Dumerils boa, you walk up to someone else with one and it's like: "That's awesome. I have one too." That little bit of variance in discussion by learning about genetics behind the snake make it interesting. Almost like it's a mini competition, if that makes sense? Haha. "I have an Albino." "Ohh nice. I've got a stunning Jungle at home!"

Personally, I'd take either one. I'd probably prefer a Dumeril. But that's because I've met so many amazing ones, and their strength is just so cool.

To each their own, I suppose!

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Originally Posted by Trackstrong83

I've heard people say this before..? What's so "intermediate" about them care wise? Is it because of their size? Because their care humidity/temp wise is very similar to Ball Pythons. I just don't see how their "intermediate" lol :rolleyes:

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My guess on 'intermediate' would be due to:

1) Size. To us they are manageable and still considered smaller than some other boas, burms, or retics.. but to the average person just getting into the hobby, or learning about snakes at all, a dumerils can be intimidating. They're still on the middle-to-larger end of the scale as far as many species most commonly kept in the hobby (e.g. Balls, corns, kingsakes, even some carpets that get long, but are not terribly heavy bodied)

2) some can be difficult to get started (I have also experienced this first hand)... possibly due to them being so shy, and not really liking an audience when eating. Our girl eats great, but she's also 9 years old, and gets fed a large/jumbo rat once every month to month and a half, otherwise she starts getting fat rolls.

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Originally Posted by Anatopism

My guess on 'intermediate' would be due to:

1) Size. To us they are manageable and still considered smaller than some other boas, burms, or retics.. but to the average person just getting into the hobby, or learning about snakes at all, a dumerils can be intimidating. They're still on the middle-to-larger end of the scale as far as many species most commonly kept in the hobby (e.g. Balls, corns, kingsakes, even some carpets that get long, but are not terribly heavy bodied)

2) some can be difficult to get started (I have also experienced this first hand)... possibly due to them being so shy, and not really liking an audience when eating. Our girl eats great, but she's also 9 years old, and gets fed a large/jumbo rat once every month to month and a half, otherwise she starts getting fat rolls.

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Ahh good points.

And I experienced last night about the getting them started thing. I tried to give mine a f/t mouse, and she showed no interest. Better luck next week I guess. Is there anything specific I should do when feeding? My BP is picky about how she is fed; it has to be dark, and I have to leave the rat in her tub. I tried making it as dark as possible when feeding her last night, but to no success.

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Originally Posted by Trackstrong83

Ahh good points.

And I experienced last night about the getting them started thing. I tried to give mine a f/t mouse, and she showed no interest. Better luck next week I guess. Is there anything specific I should do when feeding? My BP is picky about how she is fed; it has to be dark, and I have to leave the rat in her tub. I tried making it as dark as possible when feeding her last night, but to no success.

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Try a f/t or pre killed rat - slightly smaller than what you probably think it can take, put it in the cage as the lights go out, and don't walk in the same room until the next day :P Might be more difficult to find an appropriately sized rat, but most will suggest trying a rat over mice. You can try live, but make sure it isn't going to go bumbling around and smacking into your snake's face. Some eat great, some just need some more time to settle in, and some are a pain to get started. No handling or excessive 'checking in' until it starts eating though.

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Originally Posted by Anatopism

My guess on 'intermediate' would be due to:

1) Size. To us they are manageable and still considered smaller than some other boas, burms, or retics.. but to the average person just getting into the hobby, or learning about snakes at all, a dumerils can be intimidating. They're still on the middle-to-larger end of the scale as far as many species most commonly kept in the hobby (e.g. Balls, corns, kingsakes, even some carpets that get long, but are not terribly heavy bodied)

2) some can be difficult to get started (I have also experienced this first hand)... possibly due to them being so shy, and not really liking an audience when eating. Our girl eats great, but she's also 9 years old, and gets fed a large/jumbo rat once every month to month and a half, otherwise she starts getting fat rolls.

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Sorry to kind of change topic but Boa's can get fat rolls :D that just seems silly

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Originally Posted by BallJohnny

Sorry to kind of change topic but Boa's can get fat rolls :D that just seems silly

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Rosy is a beefcake. She gets our retired breeders, or any mom rats that decide they would rather be an independent woman and refuse to acknowledge the man-rats or raise their children.

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Originally Posted by Anatopism

Try a f/t or pre killed rat - slightly smaller than what you probably think it can take, put it in the cage as the lights go out, and don't walk in the same room until the next day :P Might be more difficult to find an appropriately sized rat, but most will suggest trying a rat over mice. You can try live, but make sure it isn't going to go bumbling around and smacking into your snake's face. Some eat great, some just need some more time to settle in, and some are a pain to get started. No handling or excessive 'checking in' until it starts eating though.

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That is what I tried last night, I tried doing the "zombie" dance, but she wasn't interested. Should I try and leave a mouse (f/t) in her tub tonight overnight?

I've had my female dumeril's boa since January, I am pretty positive she is a 2011. I absolutely love her! She has such a calm and docile personality, loves to explore when I take her out of her enclosure, and is never ever defensive! The only time she has ever bitten was when she was deep in shed, and she tagged me when I was trying to uncover her (she loves to burrow in her aspen). I learned to never mess with her while she is in shed again! I always tell people that dumeril's are amazing snakes, but they don't get as much love as they should.

EDIT: Also, my girl needs to be "booped" on the head for her to eat. So, not really a zombie dance so much as a zombie attack! I just gently tap her face/nose with the f/t mouse and she takes it.