I think I got lied to...help ID'ing our baby

We bought our little girl recently and I think we were lied to as to her color. They told us she was a pastel, but I'm thinking she is a normal. I feel so foolish. Please help ID her!

http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/...uzutopshot.jpg
http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/...uheadshot3.jpg
http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/...zuheadshot.jpg
http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/...zufrontend.jpg
http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/...3/Zuzubody.jpg
http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/...uheadshot2.jpg

Thank you!
Colleen

She is a very pretty Normal but nothing in your photos make me think Pastel. Pastels come in a wide variety same as Normals but here is a photo of one of my 2012 Pastels.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...PastF20122.jpg

Cute little normal, certainly not pastel though. Sorry! Hope it wasn't a reputable breeder!

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Originally Posted by Tfpets

Cute little normal, certainly not pastel though. Sorry! Hope it wasn't a reputable breeder!

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A reputable breeder wouldn't put their reputation on the line for misrepresenting one of their lowest money makers.

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Does it mean anything that her eyes are golden colored on the top 1/3 of her iris? I am definitely going to contact the breeder we purchased her from. Thank you for the help!

I don' t think it's a pastel. The sides are too dark, and the eyes aren't light enough...


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Originally Posted by rabernet

Most reputable breeders wouldn't put their reputation on the line for misrepresenting one of their lowest money makers.

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There, fixed it! Money's tight, you never know! Could have been an accident as well!

Unfortunately not. :/ it's the coloring of the snake that makes it a pastel and it seems that yours is a regular one. I posted a picture of one of my babies. http://img.tapatalk.com/468a6a54-9762-e758.jpg

The gold color is normal to a normal's eye. If you look it kinda fits right in with the facial pattern. Pastels have green eyes. Sometimes it a clear bright green and sometimes its duller and muddy. Their color can really range from low quality to bright and vibrant too. From those pictures all I see is normal. I would be suspicious it being female too if you are taking their word for it.

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Originally Posted by Tfpets

There, fixed it! Money's tight, you never know! Could have been an accident as well!

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No, you didn't fix it. A REPUTABLE breeder wouldn't NEVER put their reputation on the line for ANY reason. Otherwise, they wouldn't be reputable. I take issue with you presuming that they'd even consider it, as a breeder myself. So I'm going to cheat someone out of a pastel and effectively put myself out of business over $100?

And a reputable breeder wouldn't not mistake that for a pastel.

I said exactly what I meant, and it didn't require any editing.

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Originally Posted by Tfpets

Cute little normal, certainly not pastel though. Sorry! Hope it wasn't a reputable breeder!

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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...that-word1.jpg

That is a normal, not a pastel.

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Originally Posted by royal morphz

she is a very pretty normal but nothing in your photos make me think pastel. Pastels come in a wide variety same as normals but here is a photo of one of my 2012 pastels.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...pastf20122.jpg

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x2

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...that-word1.jpg

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:rofl:

I agree with the overall consensus. That is a very pretty normal. No pastel.



Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

I soo appreciate all of your posts. Would it make a difference if she were a jungle pastel vs pastel? I find conflicting info re: this morph. Is a jungle pastel the same as a pastel? Or does it have it's own qualities?

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Originally Posted by C2cwith3

I soo appreciate all of your posts. Would it make a difference if she were a jungle pastel vs pastel? I find conflicting info re: this morph. Is a jungle pastel the same as a pastel? Or does it have it's own qualities?

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It's the same thing.

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Originally Posted by C2cwith3

I soo appreciate all of your posts. Would it make a difference if she were a jungle pastel vs pastel? I find conflicting info re: this morph. Is a jungle pastel the same as a pastel? Or does it have it's own qualities?

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It's the exact same thing. Back in the early days of ball python morphs, the morph was called "jungle pastel". In time, it was shortened to simply "pastel", although some few folks continue to use the longer version.

I want to commend the OP on the fantastic pics! That is how we can give an educated guess. I do not see Pastel at all in that snake, so if you paid for one, the breeder owes you some money back.

Maybe it's a Het. Pastel.


Disclaimer; there is no such thing as a het pastel, this was ment as a joke.

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Originally Posted by LotsaBalls

Maybe it's a Het. Pastel.


Disclaimer; there is no such thing as a het pastel, this was ment as a joke.

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technically, all pastels are hets :)

but yea, its visual so we don't bother saying it.

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Originally Posted by LotsaBalls

Maybe it's a Het. Pastel.


Disclaimer; there is no such thing as a het pastel, this was ment as a joke.

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Actually ALL pastels are het pastel. The super pastels are homozygous.

The ugliest pastel I ever produced was sold at the same price as a normal, and it still looked more like a pastel then the one in the OP's pictures.

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Originally Posted by LotsaBalls

Maybe it's a Het. Pastel.


Disclaimer; there is no such thing as a het pastel, this was ment as a joke.

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I bought 5 balls off craigslist. a spider, 2 pastels and 2 normals. the guy actually told me the normals might be het for pastel. I was so shocked I couldnt say anything. I just said "oh yeah?" and quickly left with the snakes.

I am sorry you had such a poor experience buying your first snake. Do talk to the breeder. Try to be calm and reasonable at first. Sort of, "I believe there was some sort of mix up when I got this snake, it was supposed to be a pastel. Did I accidentally get the wrong one ?" Not, "Hey jerk! What the heck do you think you are doing selling me a normal instead of a pastel, did you think I was so stupid I'd never know the difference?"

At least if you fake being reasonable, the breeder might be more willing to resolve the problem. Since this obviously isn't the nicest or most honest person out there, this approach might be better overall.

Of course, if the breeder makes excuses or continues to lie about what the snake is, then it's time to drop all pretense and tell the creep what for and let us know who it is so we can spread the word of the dishonesty.

Gale

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Originally Posted by angllady2

I am sorry you had such a poor experience buying your first snake. Do talk to the breeder. Try to be calm and reasonable at first. Sort of, "I believe there was some sort of mix up when I got this snake, it was supposed to be a pastel. Did I accidentally get the wrong one ?" Not, "Hey jerk! What the heck do you think you are doing selling me a normal instead of a pastel, did you think I was so stupid I'd never know the difference?"

At least if you fake being reasonable, the breeder might be more willing to resolve the problem. Since this obviously isn't the nicest or most honest person out there, this approach might be better overall.

Of course, if the breeder makes excuses or continues to lie about what the snake is, then it's time to drop all pretense and tell the creep what for and let us know who it is so we can spread the word of the dishonesty.

Gale

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"I'm a rolling thunder, a pouring rain. Coming on like a hurricane." comes to mind with that last line you put, lol! To the OP: certainly looks like a normal to me. Hope things work out for you and it gets made right; good luck!

Though not a pastel, still a cute normal.

It's a bit crazy to me to think that someone would actually try to sell a normal as a pastel. I guess people really aren't as honest as we'd like them to be. Maybe the extra $50 bucks or whatever was really that important to them. Its just sad.

Of course there are always those people who themselves were lied to and they don't know any better.
It just kinda sucks all around for the op whom got stuck in the middle. Always do your research before buying. Ask for clear pics in natural light. Always.


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

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Originally Posted by Homegrownscales

Of course there are always those people who themselves were lied to and they don't know any better.

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Ya know, I can't accept that excuse. (I know you're not trying to make an excuse for this ... But I gotta rant for a second. :P)

First of all, these are live animals we're talking about here. Before you breed two live animals together, you had better have a pretty good idea what you're doing. This isn't even one of those ambiguous morphs that trips up a lot of people, like a specter or a super low-expression calico or even a yellowbelly. This is a pastel, one of if not THE most common morph in the industry. And, no offense to the OP's animal, but that isn't even one of those super-light, "dinker" looking normals that some people confuse for pastels. That is a very very normal-looking normal.

I'm just getting my first few clutches on the ground in the past few years, and I have had no problems picking out various morphs from the bunch (including things like super pastel versus pastel and pastave versus mojave). I had one that confused me a bit this year, spent a half an hour or so looking at tons of pictures on the Internet and educated my eye better and figured it out. If the breeder was so new that he or she couldn't tell a pastel from a normal from across the room, perhaps he or she should have done a tad more research before deciding to breed two live animals together.

... Secondly, never mind the fact that they are alive ... If you sell something, ANYTHING, to another person, you really ought to have at least some idea of what it is before you put it up for sale -- or else say that up front. If someone hands me a comic book and tells me its the 1st printing of the 1st edition of Sandman, and I put it up on E-Bay as such without doing the necessary whopping 10 minutes or so of research needed to tell me that I got had, the person who buys it, unwraps it and finds a common old 75 cent third edition isn't going to take my ignorance for an excuse. (Note: I don't collect comic books -- at least not like that -- so I have no idea the actual values of these things ...)

Yes, I know, caveat emptor ... But I still do not believe that ignorance is any excuse on the part of the seller.

/Rant. To the OP, sorry this happened to you. If your little guy was intended as a pet, and you like him, then that's what is most important.

Oh no, as you said not trying to make excuse and I fully agree with everything you just said. Living in vt and being in this hobby I have seen a lot of those people that were lied to by Petstores, and then they got two and then they had babies. Ya know? I deal with this type of situation on the regular.
But it's a fact that there are plenty of people that don't do their research but still breed and sell babies anyways.
I don't buy it and I still personally think that that person straight up lied to make an easy buck. But... Well guess I was being sarcastic and in reality at the same time. Lol


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

I knew you weren't defending the breeder in this particular instance. I have just heard that excuse a number of times before in the world of ball pythons, and I just don't think it flies ... About the only time where there's a grey area, in my opinion, would be in the case of an otherwise reputable breeder making a mistake on a heterozygous animal that then gets re-sold. In that case, I would say that some of the blame lies on the original seller as well as the buyer who re-sold the animal ... Though, even that still isn't an excuse for selling a misidentified animal.

So what came of this? Is the breeder making it right?

It is still a work in progress. She is defending her ground that she is a jungle pastel. Stating that since she's a "jungle" she is different from a regular pastel. She originally showed us one of her normals and ours was lighter. She also pointed out that her head is lighter. But, she will take her back if we decide not to keep her. She has sent me several links to other pastels on the internet, but I'm not convinced. I am having a knowledgeable person look at her tomorrow to help me out. She also mentioned that she works with a local breeder who confirmed that her being a pastel, so she is going to give me his info so I can speak to him.

I don't see the blushing that she should have, nor the faded dark areas on her body. She does have a golden upper eye, but the rest is dark.

So, now I am trying to decide if she is a spectacular looking normal, an odd looking normal, a normal normal, or a low quality normal. My 14 yr old would like to breed her further down the line...so we would like to start out right.

Thank you for checking back in on us!

Absolutely not a pastel! Not even a poor quality pastel. Don't let her play you for a fool!

I'd put my entire collection and yearly salary on it, she's a normal. A gorgeous one, but only a normal. She may be het for something or whatnot, I don't know. Pastels are unmistakable in my opinion, the eyes give it away.

Trey

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100% normal, also pastels have green eyes. If they cant id a pastel I would question the sex as well. Find an expereiced breeder and check.

She is absolutely, positively, no question about it at all, NOT a pastel.

She does have a bit of a jungle pattern, but nothing too unusual. Jungles (in the absence of the pastel gene), aren't generally genetic at all. Jungle just means that the pattern is irregular and atypical.

ALL pastels are jungles. The original name of the morph was 'pastel jungle'. There's no such thing as a pastel that isn't a jungle.

If you paid a pastel price for this animal, demand your money back. The breeder is committing fraud. I do not believe that even a first time breeder who hatched out a clutch containing pastels and normals, could not tell them apart. When you see them side by side, the differences are absolutely obvious.

Don't let this person keep you dangling any longer, or get an 'expert' to look at her, or any other nonsense. She does not look even slightly like a pastel, and there has not been a mistake.

Bottom line get your money back and return the snake!

That is a pretty normal. Normals still come in all shades and patterns. If you like her, keep her, but only at a normals price, not a pastels.

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There is no way on earth that is a pastel. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Zero.

This breeder may be trying to hide behind ignorance, but I promise you my entire collection it is not a pastel. Not a Jungle Pastel, not a Lemon Pastel, not a plain old Pastel, not any kind of Pastel.

If you like it then keep it, but you better get a partial refund.

Gale

Did you do any research or look at pics of other Pastels before purchasing her? I don't understand how anyone could pass that snake off as a Pastel??? Not trying to be mean, just curious. And, if you don't mind, what did you pay for her? And would you mind telling us who the "breeder" is?

yeah she is a normal

To be honest, I did a lot of research on ball pythons in general, but not into the morphs. I did numerous web searches, read books, talked to people at the pet stores, etc. I thought all this would be sufficient. When I look back now, I realize how ignorant I was. We were just excited to be able to purchase her, and for only $60. Since purchasing her, we have done an extensive amount of research into morphs and more into ball python care. I didn't join this site until after our purchase and I just wish I had done so BEFORE we thought about a purchase. I didn't realize that I would be so welcomed. Nor did I think that anyone would have the patience to help us out. I was wrong. I can't pull myself away from this site as there is so much to learn from it.
It's a long term commitment which I don't take lightly, so I am upset with myself for being duped. I've contacted the "breeder" and she had said she would tell me the name/number of the other breeder she worked with who sexed and verified her morph, but I haven't heard back from her. I also informed her I would like to bring her back...no word from her yet. I'm convinced she isn't a pastel...though I hung onto the hope for a long time just out of pride.
We are now on the hunt for a mojave female baby. Taking it slower this time and dealing with known breeders. We hate to see her go, but we don't have the ability to keep 2 snakes at this time. I hope and pray we aren't making another mistake.

Colleen

Well, I don't think you will be making a mistake, since you joined here and are willing to absorb all the info offered. Mojaves are lovely. Hope you find a snake you are happy with. :)

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So the breeder is saying she sold you a pastel for $60. That is lower than the big box stores regularly sale normal BP. They put them on sale all the time but the listed price is $80.

I think you should just keep it for that price and buy one later from a breeder that knows what they are doing when you decide to start breeding.

Maybe we should have asked the price first. Lol! That would have saved you alot of time fighting with this so called breeder.

Keep your pretty girl.

I know that $60 seems low, as they are on sale right now for $39.99 at the local store, but I'm not upset as to the price. I am upset that we fell in love with something that wasn't what she was supposed to be. :(

Seems like the breeder isn't going to make it right, looks like its time to release his/her name so the rest of us do not do buisness with them.

[QUOTE=C2cwith3;1873220]To be honest, I did a lot of research on ball pythons in general, but not into the morphs. I did numerous web searches, read books, talked to people at the pet stores, etc. I thought all this would be sufficient. When I look back now, I realize how ignorant I was. We were just excited to be able to purchase her, and for only $60. Since purchasing her, we have done an extensive amount of research into morphs and more into ball python care. I didn't join this site until after our purchase and I just wish I had done so BEFORE we thought about a purchase. I didn't realize that I would be so welcomed. Nor did I think that anyone would have the patience to help us out. I was wrong. I can't pull myself away from this site as there is so much to learn from it.
It's a long term commitment which I don't take lightly, so I am upset with myself for being duped. I've contacted the "breeder" and she had said she would tell me the name/number of the other breeder she worked with who sexed and verified her morph, but I haven't heard back from her. I also informed her I would like to bring her back...no word from her yet. I'm convinced she isn't a pastel...though I hung onto the hope for a long time just out of pride.
We are now on the hunt for a mojave female baby. Taking it slower this time and dealing with known breeders. We hate to see her go, but we don't have the ability to keep 2 snakes at this time. I hope and pray we aren't making another mistake.

Colleen[/QUOTE

Breeders like this that prey upon new bp owners/prospective owners...make me sick! The lesson that was learned though, was a very good one...

If you are not sure of the morph of a bp or just want a second opinion, come here first with pic in hand and the community here at Ball-pythons.net will be here to save the day, money and heartache!

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

Seems like the breeder isn't going to make it right, looks like its time to release his/her name so the rest of us do not do buisness with them.

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X2

If it seems to good to be true it usually is!

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Originally Posted by C2cwith3

I know that $60 seems low, as they are on sale right now for $39.99 at the local store, but I'm not upset as to the price. I am upset that we fell in love with something that wasn't what she was supposed to be. :(

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Yea, about $100 bucks low. The good news is you fell in love with a normal at a normal price not a normal at pastel price. Every bp owner needs a normal in the collection without it the collection is not complete.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

Seems like the breeder isn't going to make it right, looks like its time to release his/her name so the rest of us do not do buisness with them.

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I agree with this. If you let their name out, someone else who is a first time buyer will not fall victim to this in the future.

I am truly sorry this happened to you. It's not a good introduction into ball pythons. I understand about only having room for one. But be warned, they are very addicting and it's hard to stop at one!

I would do my best to convince the breeder to take her back, but be forewarned it doesn't seem likely at this point. If you have your heart set on a mojave, at least they are easy to spot!

I wish you all the best, regardless of what happens.

Gale