What is this?

I Cross a Normal Female X Killer Bee and Orange Ghost Males. (anyone pied as i know)
The Results: 6 normal (i think Het Ghost) and this one (he died) : (
Paradox o Pied? but why pastel?

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l...akes/Foto3.jpg

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l...akes/Foto2.jpg

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l...akes/Foto1.jpg

Very strange. It's a shame that it didn't survive.

Maybe your killerbee and normal are both het pied

That looks like a pastel pied :O

Hope you have better luck next time :salute:

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Originally Posted by Dave Green

Very strange. It's a shame that it didn't survive.

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Can it be a Paradox ? or for sure is a Pied ?

Thats a lot of white for a paradox but not impossible (the champ ringer comes to mind). But with the way it looks I would guess both parents are het pied. I would repeat that pairing next year for sure

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To me it looks like your KillerBee and Normal are het Pied, and you produced a Pastel Pied that didn't make it because of the twisted umbilicus.

Sorry for your loss - But try again next year!

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Originally Posted by gcanibe

Can it be a Paradox ? or for sure is a Pied ?

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It sure looks like a pastel pied to me, I guess you need to repeat that pairing. You may want to track down the source of those adults and see if there is any history.

Your killer bee and normal are both het pied and you hatch a pastel pied :gj:

I am just about positive that's a pastel pied. Which means your normal and killerbee are both het pied. Pity the little one didn't make it, but at least you know enough to repeat the pairing next year.

Gale

That Normal Female cames from USA that i buy in NARBC Texas (5 years ago) she was in a plastic tumb with aprox 500 more balls, and the killer bee is a keepers that i got from a Pastel Female cames from Pro Exotics and a friend of mine here in Mexico Bumble Bee.

Did she took both sperm? (killer bee and Orange Ghost)

The killer bee is 100% Het Pied and the normal?

Is this just a extrange mutation?

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Did she took both sperm? (killer bee and Orange Ghost)

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Looks like it since you have normal looking offsprings as well, if the Killerbee was the only sire you would not have produced any normal looking offsprings.

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The killer bee is 100% Het Pied and the normal?

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Both of your breeders are 100% Het pied.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Looks like it since you have normal looking offsprings as well, if the Killerbee was the only sire you would not have produced any normal looking offsprings.

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She was paired with the orange ghost too i think she took both sperms

This is the Normal Mom, does she looks like a Het Pied?

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l...s/DSC_0392.jpg

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l...s/DSC_0391.jpg

Was there a way you could've saved it if you knew that the umbilical cord was wrapped up around it?


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Originally Posted by Solarsoldier001

Was there a way you could've saved it if you knew that the umbilical cord was wrapped up around it?

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Thats the same question i want to know, but when I cut the eggs june 29 i saw 6 normals and this one, then in july the 3rd, 3 of them (the normals het ghost) was out of the egg, then july 5, the other 3 normals was out of the egg, this (pos pied didnt want to leave his egg, i i change the 6 normals to other tub out of the incubator and leve this one there in the incubator, when i arrived friday 6 to my work , i saw him died with the twisted umbilicus, and when i tried to cut this twisted umbilicus "he bled a lot", i was thinking what would happend if i cut this umbilicus before he died?, maybe he died to.
Who knows?

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Originally Posted by gcanibe

Thats the same question i want to know, but when I cut the eggs june 29 i saw 6 normals and this one, then in july the 3rd, 3 of them (the normals het ghost) was out of the egg, then july 5, the other 3 normals was out of the egg, this (pos pied didnt want to leave his egg, i i change the 6 normals to other tub out of the incubator and leve this one there in the incubator, when i arrived friday 6 to my work , i saw him died with the twisted umbilicus, and when i tried to cut this twisted umbilicus "he bled a lot", i was thinking what would happend if i cut this umbilicus before he died?, maybe he died to.
Who knows?

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I wonder if someone can help us out on our question


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Solarsoldier001

I wonder if someone can help us out on our question


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Sometimes it is possible to tie the umbilical cord off and cut it if you catch it in time. I'm not really comfortable explaining how to do it, though, as I've only done it once. I'm sure someone can, though.

You have to tie off the umbilical cord with a cotton (natural) string. You don't want it to be too small (no fishing line) or it will just cut through the umbilical as well. Then you cut between where you tied and the yolk.

()
[]
[]
[]------)*(------ Cut out here, leaving a quarter inch or so of umbilical.
[]
[]
V

The knot can be a basic one but needs to be tight so it won't come off until everything is healed. The baby also needs to have its head out and breathing air since otherwise, you're cutting off his only source of oxygen. Let the umbilical cord dry up. It will fall off within a week generally.

Edit: This does cut off the option of the baby absorbing the rest of the yolk. If you can, I've found it better to just untangle the baby carefully so they can finish absorbing.

Sorry you lost that guy! :(

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Thanks for ur comments.
Do u think she is a Het Pied?

I see a killer paradox. Looking at the pattern, I dont see anything that looks like pied.

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Originally Posted by aalomon

I see a killer paradox. Looking at the pattern, I dont see anything that looks like pied.

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He Can´t be a killer Paradox, because the cros was: killer bee and orange ghost males with a "Normal" Female

Killer as in really cool, not killerbee.

Very interesting...


Jason Rossi
www.rossireptiles.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rossi-...app_2309869772

That is not a paradox. Both the normal and the killerbee are het pied. That baby was a pastel piebald. Do the same pairing again next season.

The patterned areas do not look Pied to me. The Pied gene not only creates the white, but it also messes with both the color and pattern of the patterned areas. Those areas typically have a light dorsal stripe bordered by dark dorsal stripes on each side, or they may have a chaotic pattern, or a mixture of light dorsal stripe and chaotic pattern. You can take a picture of the patterned area of a Pied with no white included and you can tell the pattern is tweaked. When you add Pastel, the pattern usually tweaks even more. Pieds typically have neither orderly arranged “alien heads” on their sides nor black backs.

This specimen has “alien head” pattern on the sides its neck. It also has nicely arranged “alien heads” and black-back pattern near its tail. To me, those areas look like a nice black-back Pastel, not Piebald.

I’d say repeat the pairing again. You might have something new. You could also get yourself a Pied male to breed to your female and see if you get any Pieds.

Really sorry for you that it didn't hatch. It looks like it would have been beautiful.

-Paul

Pastel Pied was my first thought! Ashame it died. I would repeat next year for sure!

I am very confused :(

I'll have to wait a year

I thought it would have a more accurate response, but I see that there are different points of view

this baby is frozen im going to take more photos, and wait for more answers


Thanks to all who have taken the time to write

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Originally Posted by h00blah

Maybe your killerbee and normal are both het pied

That looks like a pastel pied :O

Hope you have better luck next time :salute:

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Exactly what I was thinking. It definitely is a smoking snake, and I'm sorry it didn't survive :(

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A killer bee is a super pastel spider. Right? A super pastel would produce no normals. Right? So a killerbee to a normal. you should of had at least all pastels. Right? So any normal babies in the clutch would have to be fathered by the other male. The other male was a ghost. Then Id say all the normal looking babies are 100% het ghosts. Thats if Im right about the killerbee being a super pastel spider.

It does look like a pastel pied. Id breed the killerbee back to the same female this season. To see if your killerbee, and that normal mom are 100% het pied also. Hope that helps.

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Originally Posted by PiedPeddler

The patterned areas do not look Pied to me. The Pied gene not only creates the white, but it also messes with both the color and pattern of the patterned areas. Those areas typically have a light dorsal stripe bordered by dark dorsal stripes on each side, or they may have a chaotic pattern, or a mixture of light dorsal stripe and chaotic pattern. You can take a picture of the patterned area of a Pied with no white included and you can tell the pattern is tweaked. When you add Pastel, the pattern usually tweaks even more. Pieds typically have neither orderly arranged “alien heads” on their sides nor black backs.

This specimen has “alien head” pattern on the sides its neck. It also has nicely arranged “alien heads” and black-back pattern near its tail. To me, those areas look like a nice black-back Pastel, not Piebald.

I’d say repeat the pairing again. You might have something new. You could also get yourself a Pied male to breed to your female and see if you get any Pieds.

Really sorry for you that it didn't hatch. It looks like it would have been beautiful.

-Paul

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I agree that it definitely doesn't have your typical pied pattern in the non white areas, but I'd also breed the same pair next year to find out for sure. Sorry for your loss!

IMO it can't be paradox because paradox snakes have normal patterns where they are paradox, not pure white. Although the pure white areas are fairly normal with paradox-ish champagnes. It looks like a pastel pied to me. Mom and dad must both be 100% het pieds, you got super lucky there!

- - - Updated - - -

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Originally Posted by gcanibe

I am very confused :(

I'll have to wait a year

I thought it would have a more accurate response, but I see that there are different points of view

this baby is frozen im going to take more photos, and wait for more answers


Thanks to all who have taken the time to write

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No one is going to be be able to give you THE answer. Ball pythons have so many genetic mutations, incubation factors on pattern/color, and pure luck of unknowingly buying and breeding two het pied animals. The answer is to breed them again next year to find out for sure if it was some sort of fluke, or if you really do have two het pied animals. Although, I really do believe they are het pied animals.

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Originally Posted by ama1997

A killer bee is a super pastel spider. Right? .

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Right , he is the dad.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l...erbee_3795.jpg

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l...erbee_3781.jpg

And the other father

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l...es/Male3-5.jpg

So is that a killerbee or a killer looking bumblebee? Is a killerbee a superpastel spider? If the father is a killerbee (superpastel spider) then any normals from the clutch would have to be fathered by the other male. Right or am I wrong? Now if its not a superpastel spider. and just a killer looking bumblebee. Then normals could have been produced, and the only way to tell what the normals are. Would be to breed them back to a ghost,or het ghost.. Right or am I wrong about that. The pied looking thing. I have no clue. Looks pied to me, but im no expert on pieds.

So is the killerbee posted a super pastel spider? Or is it a killer looking bumblebee? I think that info needs to be cleared up first.

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Originally Posted by ama1997

So is the killerbee posted a super pastel spider? Or is it a killer looking bumblebee? I think that info needs to be cleared up first.

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He is a prooved Killer Bee (Super Pastel Spider).
This Year i breed him with other 5 normals and I only got in 2 cluthcs Pastels and Bees, the other 3 are in the incubator.:rolleyes: