The unbeatable RI.

Zeus is my pastel. He came to me with 4 other snakes (my lesser Titan, my 2 het albinos Arya and Anya, and my normal Cleo) after another 'breeder/collector' was changing his breeding plans. Shortly after I got them home, Zeus, Titan, and Anya all showed signs of RI. They all went to the vet, were cultured, and prescribed Baytril, which should have taken care of the RI according to the results of the swab. After the round of treatment, Titan and Anya improved, but Zeus didn't. Zeus was then prescribed Amikacin. After that round of antibiotics, he improved for a little bit. But then I heard the rattle again. So back to the vet we went, and Zeus was put on yet another round of Baytril. Again he improved for a bit, but then the RI came back quickly and with a vengeance.

That leads us up to today. My poor buddy Zeus is just getting sicker and sicker, and nothing is helping him. He's not eating so he's wasting away to nothing. I don't know if he can take another blast of antibiotics, especially after already having 3 rounds, considering the shape he's in. We've done everything the vet has directed, taken the suggestions of other breeder/owners, and - believe me when I tell you - I keep my snakes in immaculate condition. Besides those 3 snakes, none of my other snakes have ever been sick or had a problem (thank god).

I'm afraid I'm watching my beautiful boy die. I'm not sure what to do at this point and it's breaking my heart. Maybe I'm just looking for something to assuage the guilt I'm feeling. I just hope he keeps fighting the good fight and we find something to make him better, although I think I'm losing him. RI's are no joke.

Here's my buddy, Zeus:

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...7/img_5693.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...5-12/Zeus2.jpg

Julie, I'm sorry to read this. Have you considered getting a second opinion? The good thing with Ball Pythons is you can ship them overnight to a vet. I can recommend Dr Stahl: http://www.seavs.com/aboutseavs/meetus.html. The temps are supposed to break on Monday, so if you contact him and let him know Zeus is coming, he can be expecting him on Tuesday. Regardless, I hope Zeus does OK. Keep us informed.

The only thing I can think of (aside from the visit suggested above me), is how long were each of these rounds of antibiotics? Two weeks, a month? I hear a lot of stories where only 10-14 days of treatment are prescribed, and the infection isn't really gone, only the symptoms have subsided.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Annarose15

The only thing I can think of (aside from the visit suggested above me), is how long were each of these rounds of antibiotics? Two weeks, a month? I hear a lot of stories where only 10-14 days of treatment are prescribed, and the infection isn't really gone, only the symptoms have subsided.

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The shortest treatment was 21 days - 7 shots at 3 day intervals. I didn't note the amount of the dose, but the last round was stronger for a longer period of time.

UPDATE: It's a sad week at our house. We lost 2 snakes to the unbeatable RI. :tears::tears:

A week ago or so, Anya VERY suddenly showed signs of a serious RI. Literally, one day she was fine, the next day she was critically ill. Before I could even call our vet, she was gone. From the moment we saw symptoms, to the time she died, was approximately 1 and a half days. She was a sweet, calm, wonderful little girl and I so wish I could have done more for her.

My beautiful boy Zeus has also succumbed to his RI. He went back to the vet 2 weeks ago, got a culture which discovered only 1 bacteria, and was put on yet another round of Amikacin (8 weeks this time). But his frail body just couldn't take the treatment. We were well aware that there may have been too much damage for him to pull through, but we had hope. Last night, I went change his cage, and he had passed. He was one of the most stunning pastels I've ever seen, having truly kept the 'pastel' hues. He was a voracious eater (when he actually ate between bouts of illness), and was quite a fighter.

I know we did everything possible, but it still SUCKS. Trying to stay positive, our lesser Titan is still in full health, but we will keep a close eye on him. Just to hammer home my point, do NOT mess around with RI's. It was pure torture to watch my boy die, even though we did everything we could for him.

Zeus and Anya will be sorely missed.

Anya
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...5-12/Anya3.jpg

Zeus
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...5-12/Zeus2.jpg

Julie, I'm so sorry. That must have been very difficult to post.

:( Julie I am so sorry to hear this. I believe you did everything you could, sometimes they just aren't strong enough. Its never easy loosing a pet. It especially sucks when there is nothing you can do to help them.

I'm so sorry for your loss. They will be greatly missed!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

OMG, I'm so so sorry for your loss!

You did all you could, and much more than many people do, so for that I think we should all applaud you!! :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rickys_Reptiles

OMG, I'm so so sorry for your loss!

You did all you could, and much more than many people do, so for that I think we should all applaud you!! :gj:

---

^^ this. And I had no ideas RIs could claim a life, even when treated promptly. Hugs to you.

this is tough to hear because you were trying to save these animals, and it was just too much for them. truly sorry for your two babies.

I would like to know how long after you got them from that breeder did the RI get noticed? (I'd talk to that breeder, let them know, just in case one his/her snakes aren't causing any other issues) just to clear the story.

:(:tears:

Thanks all. We've actually been dealing with this for about 8 months. They started showing symptoms about a month after they came to me, so the change in environment or stress of moving could have triggered the inability to fight the infection. They'd get better, then sick, then we'd treat them, then get better, then sick again. It was just a vicious cycle they couldn't beat.

The previous owner and I communicate back and forth frequently, so he knows all about what happened. All the other snakes I've gotten from him (except for the lesser) never had any signs of any illness and are growing and eating and thriving.

I really think it's just one of those freak things, but I know I won't mess around with RI's in the future (not that we did this time).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JulieInNJ

Thanks all. We've actually been dealing with this for about 8 months. They started showing symptoms about a month after they came to me, so the change in environment or stress of moving could have triggered the inability to fight the infection. They'd get better, then sick, then we'd treat them, then get better, then sick again. It was just a vicious cycle they couldn't beat.

The previous owner and I communicate back and forth frequently, so he knows all about what happened. All the other snakes I've gotten from him (except for the lesser) never had any signs of any illness and are growing and eating and thriving.

I really think it's just one of those freak things, but I know I won't mess around with RI's in the future (not that we did this time).

---

Julie, I'm so sorry for your loss.

I've had two snake RIs that seemed to go and come back and are now being nebulized while the new meds are being ordered.

I've developed a phobia of RIs and drive everybody here crazy with my jumpy worrying over every little 'off' thing I see, now.

They were very lucky to have you for a 'mom'.

Many animals die without ever having been loved.

The lucky ones leave behind those of us who do grieve.

Your snakes were very fortunate to have had you for as long as they did.

That counts for a lot.

I'm sorry for your loss, Julie.
At least they aren't suffering anymore.

Thanks. Top priority is to make sure nobody else develops anything, which they haven't so far so I'm taking that as a good sign.

So sorry to hear about your loss. Hope all the rest stay happy and healthy.

I'm so sorry for the loss of your two beauties. It sounds like there's nothing you wouldn't have done for them. Wishing perfect health to all the rest, and peace to you.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

Yet another blow to our collection. The third snake that came to us with an RI, Titan the lesser, is now seriously, seriously ill. It was again a case of him being fine and eating like a champ one day, and then drowning in his own mucus the next. Antibiotics isn't having any effect. So heartbreaking.

I'm soo sorry to hear your fighting RI's.
My heart breaks for your loss, and I pray that Titan makes a full recovery.
I'm fighting an RI as we speak now. My big female started showing signs about 3 wks ago. I bumped her heat up and thoroughly cleaned everything. I drove two hrs north of me to pick up some F10. When I took her to the vet the next day he gave her a clean bill of health. The vet put her on 7 shots of baytril, 1 each day. She seemed to be doing great, last night I noticed a little bubble from the side of her mouth.
Needless to sag shes going back for another check up and an additional culture.
She's also Gravid at the moment, and nearing ovulation.
I'm praying that the snake gods stop up to see you and save your Titan, than fly down to south jersey to help me.
What vet do you use?

I use Dr. Horn in Mercerville, who is a local small animal/herp vet. And then we have a bunch of specialists in Northstar Vets in Robbinsville. So frustrating.

Julie, what were the results of the original culture?

Off hand, I don't remember. I know there was only one bacteria (I think) found in both cultures, for which amikacin was indicated. At this point, it looks like all their lungs were just too damage to recover.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BleedingOrange36

I'm soo sorry to hear your fighting RI's.
My heart breaks for your loss, and I pray that Titan makes a full recovery.
I'm fighting an RI as we speak now. My big female started showing signs about 3 wks ago. I bumped her heat up and thoroughly cleaned everything. I drove two hrs north of me to pick up some F10. When I took her to the vet the next day he gave her a clean bill of health. The vet put her on 7 shots of baytril, 1 each day. She seemed to be doing great, last night I noticed a little bubble from the side of her mouth.
Needless to sag shes going back for another check up and an additional culture.
She's also Gravid at the moment, and nearing ovulation.
I'm praying that the snake gods stop up to see you and save your Titan, than fly down to south jersey to help me.
What vet do you use?

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I had unbelievably great results with the SnakeBytes TV F10/Reptifogger treatment.
I never even opened the Amakcain box.

Poor Norma, who just couldn't shake the RI is now insanely healthy, eating like a fiend and doesn't even look the same snake I got last year.

I keep the fogger and the F10 at the ready all the time now, just in case.

It may not be 'orthodox' but it definitely worked for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJCnPfuqaBM

Thanks, I may give that a try!

This SUCKS to read about Julie. I missed this thread when it was going previously somehow. I'm so sorry you lost the two and that Titan is now looking in bad shape. I know you take great care of your animals, which makes something like this just that much harder to understand and accept. I haven't personally had to deal with RI yet, but I think I'd try the F10 route if I were in your shoes right now. Let me know if there's anything I can do. I'm going to White Plains this weekend, so if there is anything from the show that I can pick up for you that could possibly help, just PM or text me.

Thanks, Kevin. It's such a downer because he's such a sweetheart. My heart breaks for him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JulieInNJ

Off hand, I don't remember. I know there was only one bacteria (I think) found in both cultures, for which amikacin was indicated. At this point, it looks like all their lungs were just too damage to recover.

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There are certain gram negative bacteria that are native to the tracheal/oral mucosa of a snake. It is not unheard of for a vet to do a wash/culture and mistake these normal flora for the cause of the RI.

Not all RIs are bacterial. There are viral, fungal and parasitic causes that will of course not be cured by antibiotics. If you can find out what the culture revealed it is possible that we can determine whether or not you are truly dealing with a bacterial issue.

Really sorry for your loss. I would hate to see it happen to mine.

I lost a female Normal earlier this year after 5 months of antibiotics given every 3 days. It is heartbreaking and I'm sorry for your loss.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigJayPiercer

I lost a female Normal earlier this year after 5 months of antibiotics given every 3 days. It is heartbreaking and I'm sorry for your loss.

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:tears:

can you please tell me how to start a thread please someone im sorry i wrote on here i just couldnt figure it out

Hi,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jbonekc

can you please tell me how to start a thread please someone im sorry i wrote on here i just couldnt figure it out

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Go to the forum page where you see the list of threads and there is a "+post new thread" button at the top left. :)

Choose the forum that suits your question best. :gj:


dr del

When snakes start dying off in spite of antibiotic treatments, I think 'virus'. I hope your quarantine is bullet-proof--if it's not, make changes right away. Use bleach to disinfect, not chlorhexadine.
Or even something stronger.

I'm so sorry for your loss ! I'm in the same situation as well. In december my normal female at 16-1700g stopped eating. She was healthy and fine untill about 4 months ago she got an RI. And I've had the same as you going, getting better, then worse, then better, then worse.... She her 3-4 round of antibiotics on a two weeks cure, and about a month ago I bought the F10 and fogger and startet this.. I also decided to assist feed her with rat fuzzie to see if she would eat it, since her weight now is 1098g, and I'm glad to tell she's eating almost every rat fuzzie I've assisted her with. The last one I was giving her (I always dangle it in front of her to see if she'll strike by her self) and she did ! She became better, seemed almost healty for two weeks ago and now it's back to the drawling and breathing noises..... So she's in a new round of antibiotics, still getting fogged(never stopped) and her tub is cleaned and sprayed a thin layer of F10 to airdry. The heat is of course sat up and I don't know what more to do.. She's full of energy though, but for her lenght and year she's pretty thin "/

How long is long enough for the animals? When it goes too long is it better to euthanize the animal or should we keep trying and see if they make it or not ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Genetics

I'm so sorry for your loss ! I'm in the same situation as well. In december my normal female at 16-1700g stopped eating. She was healthy and fine untill about 4 months ago she got an RI. And I've had the same as you going, getting better, then worse, then better, then worse.... She her 3-4 round of antibiotics on a two weeks cure, and about a month ago I bought the F10 and fogger and startet this.. I also decided to assist feed her with rat fuzzie to see if she would eat it, since her weight now is 1098g, and I'm glad to tell she's eating almost every rat fuzzie I've assisted her with. The last one I was giving her (I always dangle it in front of her to see if she'll strike by her self) and she did ! She became better, seemed almost healty for two weeks ago and now it's back to the drawling and breathing noises..... So she's in a new round of antibiotics, still getting fogged(never stopped) and her tub is cleaned and sprayed a thin layer of F10 to airdry. The heat is of course sat up and I don't know what more to do.. She's full of energy though, but for her lenght and year she's pretty thin "/

How long is long enough for the animals? When it goes too long is it better to euthanize the animal or should we keep trying and see if they make it or not ?

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In my eyes, and I haven't had experience with viral- if you even get the chance to fully ID it as a viral... Sometimes if you get conditions just perfect you can get the viral to either die down a lot, or subside, and they can live a "normal" life- if it comes up viral though, and isn't responding to anything, I'd say euthanize it. Too many people put animals through a ton of pain/suffering for the person's hope, when frankly the animal would probably rather be put out of it's misery...

If she's been sick 4 months and nothing is working, I'd put her down myself..

who were the people that you got them from?

- - - Updated - - -

who were the people that you got them from?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MMReptiles

Too many people put animals through a ton of pain/suffering for the person's hope, when frankly the animal would probably rather be put out of it's misery..

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This is what I'm thinking also. But again, what signs should you look for to make the decision?

My female has become better after I started with the F10 and fogger, and it isn't long ago since I started with assist feeding so I figured out I would try this for a while to see if it may help.. I'm hoping the food will give her a boom to defeat the RI but if it doesn't work I think I will put her down... But it's hard to put down an animal with lots of energy, and of course - who wants to put down their animal....

The RI here started when I bought a snake from an unknown breeder, I was overexcited to get the snake since the morph isn't so regular here yet and a few weeks after the snake drowled blood.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stickyalvinroll

who were the people that you got them from?

- - - Updated - - -

who were the people that you got them from?

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He was just a local guy with a collection who was looking to get into a different project.

The strange thing is that 2 out of the 5 have NEVER show signs or symptoms of ANY illnesses. It was just these 3 who kept having the RI come back over and over again. None of the rest of my collection have contracted an RI either.

As for Titan, last night we really thought he had died - he was laying inverted and mouth open. But when I opened the tub, he moved so I picked him up and brought him out into the living room with me. I don't know if it was the change in environment, but he seemed to perk right up. I left him in his tub overnight out in the living room, and this morning he looks almost normal. I can't figure it out.

We too discussed euthanizing him after how we found him last night, although I have no idea how to euthanize a snake. Any suggestions would be helpful. Titan is one of my favorites, but I don't want him to suffer needlessly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JulieInNJ

We too discussed euthanizing him after how we found him last night, although I have no idea how to euthanize a snake. Any suggestions would be helpful. Titan is one of my favorites, but I don't want him to suffer needlessly.

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Most humane would be to have your vet do it. Less painful for yourself. But if you are looking for cost effective you could gas chamber like you would for rats. And my least favorite would be the pack him into a shoebox tub and into the freezer. I myself wouldn't do the last one but I do know people who do. I am very sorry for your losses and hope and pray your Titan pulls through for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by H.o.F.R

Most humane would be to have your vet do it. Less painful for yourself. But if you are looking for cost effective you could gas chamber like you would for rats. And my least favorite would be the pack him into a shoebox tub and into the freezer. I myself wouldn't do the last one but I do know people who do. I am very sorry for your losses and hope and pray your Titan pulls through for you.

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Freezing him to death is terrible!

God forbid I ever had to kill one of my snakes but if I did, I'd have hubby take it outside and just smash its head with a brick.

Instant death, no suffering, no stress.

That sounds brutal but it sure beats freezing/gassing or injections with a creature that has a metabolism so slow who knows how long it would take.

This is such a sad thread.

:tears:

Change of subject please!! :(
Euthanizing your beloved pet is not something people want to see while reading about treating an RI.
Someone may read this and jump to conclusions prior to spending the money at a vet to try and treat it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BleedingOrange36

Change of subject please!! :(
Euthanizing your beloved pet is not something people want to see while reading about treating an RI.
Someone may read this and jump to conclusions prior to spending the money at a vet to try and treat it.

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Good suggestion.

It ain't over 'til it's over and I'd personally go to great extremes before I'd ever make that call.

I spent well over $500 on a $100 normal to get it better and I'd do it again, if I had to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BleedingOrange36

Change of subject please!! :(
Euthanizing your beloved pet is not something people want to see while reading about treating an RI.
Someone may read this and jump to conclusions prior to spending the money at a vet to try and treat it.

---

Well... In this thread we're discussing it about animals who have had RI for a very long time without improving. Everyone who has animals with RI should of course try the help the animal as best as possible first, long before thinking about putting the animal down. And yes, euthanizing isn't something none of us wants to read about but is in fact a very important alternative when it comes to the animals welfare - it's worse keeping an animal alive if it is in big pain, than euthanize it.

The freezer-part grosses me out. My "man" said if we should put this girl down, we should do it outside with an axe - seems like a very "nice" way to do it, quick and not much chance to do it wrong... But again, I really don't want to se my "father in law" chopping off my snakes head but it's one of the gentle way to do it...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Genetics

Well... In this thread we're discussing it about animals who have had RI for a very long time without improving. Everyone who has animals with RI should of course try the help the animal as best as possible first, long before thinking about putting the animal down. And yes, euthanizing isn't something none of us wants to read about but is in fact a very important alternative when it comes to the animals welfare - it's worse keeping an animal alive if it is in big pain, than euthanize it.

The freezer-part grosses me out. My "man" said if we should put this girl down, we should do it outside with an axe - seems like a very "nice" way to do it, quick and not much chance to do it wrong... But again, I really don't want to se my "father in law" chopping off my snakes head but it's one of the gentle way to do it...

---

Yes you are correct as it would be the quickest way to accomplish such a gruesome act.
I could never do it though. I've personally got Into a heated fist fight with a good friend for chopping the head off a black rat in our race shop.
If you have ever seen a snake get its head chopped off, it has spasm for about 25min afterwards. It has been said that it feels the pain for those following minutes.
There are more humane ways to do it I believe. Its the same case with rodent breeders. The humane way to do it as listed in the regulations is by Co2. Breeders could save money by whacking them and throwing them in the freezer. But why not let them soundly fall asleep without the possibility of feeling any pain.
Just my .2cents

Euthanizing is an unfortunate part of being a responsible owner, regardless of what the pet is. It's devastating to see a beloved pet struggling to breath. I would gladly pay a bucket of money if I knew it would get him better, but after a year of struggling, it isn't looking good.

My hope would be that someone would read this and understand that, even in the best cared for snakes, an RI can and will kill. :tears:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BleedingOrange36

Yes you are correct as it would be the quickest way to accomplish such a gruesome act.
I could never do it though. I've personally got Into a heated fist fight with a good friend for chopping the head off a black rat in our race shop.
If you have ever seen a snake get its head chopped off, it has spasm for about 25min afterwards. It has been said that it feels the pain for those following minutes.
There are more humane ways to do it I believe. Its the same case with rodent breeders. The humane way to do it as listed in the regulations is by Co2. Breeders could save money by whacking them and throwing them in the freezer. But why not let them soundly fall asleep without the possibility of feeling any pain.
Just my .2cents

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When it all comes to it all.... I don't think I could just stand beside and look at it happen.... and I could never do it myself, that's for sure.

So they have said... I have no idea, roaches can be split in two and still be alive so it's hard to tell... Co2 is one of the best, but thinking about being choked 'till you faint isn't nice either... I don't think any of the "put down"-methods are a good way to die, the best is to grow old and it happen naturally...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JulieInNJ

Euthanizing is an unfortunate part of being a responsible owner, regardless of what the pet is. It's devastating to see a beloved pet struggling to breath. I would gladly pay a bucket of money if I knew it would get him better, but after a year of struggling, it isn't looking good.

My hope would be that someone would read this and understand that, even in the best cared for snakes, an RI can and will kill. :tears:

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I spent 2 months in that terror zone and I never want to go back.

The ultimate irony is that the 'sick female' who started my troubles and whom I devoted lots of money, time and tears to was just discovered to be a boy!

[and the breeder is a hugely famous person]

I am devastated.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Salamander

The ultimate irony is that the 'sick female' who started my troubles and whom I devoted lots of money, time and tears to was just discovered to be a boy!

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Djiis..... :O

I'm in the moment to believe that the long anticipated black pastel male who started all this at my place is in fact a cinnamon... At least it isn't a female who turns out to be a boy, but it still is kinda boring.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BleedingOrange36

Yes you are correct as it would be the quickest way to accomplish such a gruesome act.
I could never do it though. I've personally got Into a heated fist fight with a good friend for chopping the head off a black rat in our race shop.
If you have ever seen a snake get its head chopped off, it has spasm for about 25min afterwards. It has been said that it feels the pain for those following minutes.
There are more humane ways to do it I believe. Its the same case with rodent breeders. The humane way to do it as listed in the regulations is by Co2. Breeders could save money by whacking them and throwing them in the freezer. But why not let them soundly fall asleep without the possibility of feeling any pain.
Just my .2cents

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Rodents are mammals. While CO2 and cervical dislocation works for them, it doesn't for reptiles.

Co2 is not a good way to euthanize reptiles. Since they have a slow respiratory rate and metabolism, it would take a very long long time for them to die. Quite agonizing really. Some may not even die because the person doesn't leave them in the Co2 chamber long enough. It takes a mouse roughly 2 minutes to die in a Co2 chamber. I can guarantee it won't take 2 minutes for a snake to die.

Cutting off the head is inhumane too because the head is still alive and can feel pain.

Freezing is one of the most inhumane methods to euthanize a snake or any thing for the matter. Freezing is highly painful. It can take hours for a snake to freeze to death. Its said they can feel their cells freeze and burst. Putting your hand in ice water for 30 seconds hurts us already. I can't imagine doing that for hours.....

The only humane method for snakes you can do at home is instantaneous brain destruction(Crushing or destroying brain tissue ). While it is not pretty, smashing or chopping the head itself is the most effective way to euthanize a snake yourself.

If you take a snake to the vet, they will euthanize it with either an overdose of anesthesia or a cardiac puncture to the heart if a vein cannot be located in smaller animals. Don't worry about pain. The snakes are put under anesthesia during the heart puncture procedure. It's illegal to not do so.

If there was ever a situation where an animal had to be down on the spot, I wouldn't even hesitate. As a keeper, it is my responsibility to take care of my animals and make sure they're not suffering. It would be unfair to them if they couldn't live a quality life just because I wanted them to live longer. Sometimes you have to euthanize on the spot. Sometimes a suffering animal cannot wait 20+ minutes to drive to the vet to be put down. While i
It's not a great feeling or experience to euthanize animals, I would suck it up to help my animals.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BleedingOrange36

Change of subject please!! :(
Euthanizing your beloved pet is not something people want to see while reading about treating an RI.
Someone may read this and jump to conclusions prior to spending the money at a vet to try and treat it.

---

It's part of the hobby, and yes, certain animals with certain levels of RI I wouldn't bother taking to the vet and would just euthanize it myself. This is an effective thing to do- and no, not every animal should be taken to the vet instead of euthanized...

I see so many people spending thousands of dollars on dogs surgeries to save them for 1 more year, then force them on pain meds for that year, and it's a crap world for the dog, because human emotions get in the way of the dogs well being. Frankly, people that have that kind of money to throw around should put the dog down so it doesn't suffer, and then rescue another dog, or donate to a rescue with that money, the same is true with the snake...

Frankly, for me, if she still isn't showing improvement after this amount of time, I would euthanize her.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Genetics

When it all comes to it all.... I don't think I could just stand beside and look at it happen.... and I could never do it myself, that's for sure.

So they have said... I have no idea, roaches can be split in two and still be alive so it's hard to tell... Co2 is one of the best, but thinking about being choked 'till you faint isn't nice either... I don't think any of the "put down"-methods are a good way to die, the best is to grow old and it happen naturally...

---

The best way to put down a snake is to smash/cut it's head directly. This is the only instant and pain free way of killing a snake, even a vet can cause it some pain.

Then there's the fact that so LITTLE is known of these viruses. It's unknown whether a recovered snake could harbor the virus in its body, and there are several different families of viruses causing similar symptoms out there.

Step 1) If a snake dies of an RI, get a necropsy done--by an EXPERIENCED reptile vet. Have it shipped if you have to. You want to know what caused that death, not have a guess. Some of the viral illnesses can only be diagnosed postmortem, and only by someone who knows what to look for.

Step 2) If you have a snake come down with a viral RI, inform the person you got it from, immediately. Some of these illnesses can incubate for up to 10 months, and that person may have had the animal in their own hands for less time than that--your notification could alert them to a viral RI problem and allow them to isolate any animals that may have had contact with the infected one. It will also allow them to contact anyone they've sold an animal that may have been infected to. (We know some people are not ethical enough to do this, but some are).

Step 3) Isolate sick animals, and isolate animals that may have been exposed. Clean with bleach and disinfectants made to kill things like Newcastle's Disease in poultry. The risk of chemical exposure is less than the risk from the virus--rinse well, but use the strong stuff.

Step 4) Sell nothing that may even remotely have been exposed, until your collection is virus-free for 1 year. Never sell recovered animals, and keep them isolated--it is unknown whether they may be asymptomatic carriers. There has been no verified incidence of that, but it's not worth the risk.

We see these stories coming through over and over again...quarantine new animals for 1 year, not for 3 months, not for 6 months...for the maximum recorded incubation time for these viral RIs. These diseases couldn't proliferate the way they are if people used proper quarantine procedures.