Baby Ball python help, Grey belly and loose skin!

I just purchased a baby ball python about a week ago. I noticed his belly was very pink/red colored when i brought him home. He ate two days after I brought him home.

I tried feeding him again last night, 6 days since his last feed, but he wouldnt even smell the mouse, he was very scared of it. When I was holding him and examining him I noticed that the scales on his belly have now turned a dark greyish ash looking color. I also noticed that he has very loose skin running along the length of his body around his tail and neck, it looks like its been pinched.

The rest of him looks fine, his body color has not faded and his eyes are still dark so i dont think hes is going into shed. I have been trying to keep his humidity in the 60-70 range and his temps are 85-95 on his hide side and in the low 80s on his cool side. I also tried soaking him in some warm water last night but he didnt seem interested in sitting in it.

Any ideas on what could be wrong with my snake, with the grey belly and pinched skin folds?

Sounds like he's about to shed to me. They usually go pink bellied, then it clears up then they shed. Pics might help confirm this though.

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I will try to get a pic uploaded later today. If it is shed, how long does it usually take to notice the eyes changing color?

well his eyes could of passed the blue stage, their eyes go blue then clear up then they shed.
if it is in shed, bump the humidity up to 70-75% try not to handle him to much he'll become aggressive maybe, when they go in shed there eyes become cloudy its difficult for them to see :)

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Originally Posted by SRMD94

well his eyes could of passed the blue stage, their eyes go blue then clear up then they shed.
if it is in shed, bump the humidity up to 70-75% try not to handle him to much he'll become aggressive maybe, when they go in shed there eyes become cloudy its difficult for them to see :)

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Maybe that is it, he did seem like he was having trouble seeing last night. I would hold the mouse in front of him and he would sometimes bump into it then get really scared.

I'm going out on a limb here, and saying he's within a day or so of shedding. Keep his enclosure humid, but don't soak him. Soaking when they are about to shed will wreck the shed, and it will come off in bits and pieces instead of whole. Give him peace and quiet for a few days, and I'm willing to bet you'll find a shed in there before you know it.

Gale

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Originally Posted by angllady2

Keep his enclosure humid, but don't soak him. Soaking when they are about to shed will wreck the shed, and it will come off in bits and pieces instead of whole.

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i x2 this, defo do not soak him at all within his shed process.

Thanks for the help guys, this is helping me feel better about it not being a health issue. One more question, how long after he sheds should I wait to try and feed him again?

you could feed him almost straight after him shedding i believe or maybe wait a day or two, maybe if you post a few pictures of your body we can almost defiantly tell you if hes in shed, but i am sure he is fine.

My ball has just gone in shed his skin becomes really dull, and he always gets this part of skin over his eye it looks like a retained eye cap but he only gets it when he sheds, he is about 2 days into shed and i just fed him about half hour ago :)

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Originally Posted by alysha

Thanks for the help guys, this is helping me feel better about it not being a health issue. One more question, how long after he sheds should I wait to try and feed him again?

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Everyone gets offered food on the same day, regardless of where they are in the shed cycle for me.

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Here are some pictures of him.

This first one shows the grey belly, which a week ago was all pinkish looking.

http://i46.tinypic.com/10zwgtv.jpg


Heres the wrinkles in his skin, mostly near the tail and some by the neck also.
http://i45.tinypic.com/2ez4rnt.jpg




This shows the wrinkles and also his eyes, which are all black but the light hitting them made the top look lighter.

http://i49.tinypic.com/t7n284.jpg

Does your snake drink a lot?
do you ever see him drink?

Ive never seen him drink, worried he might be dehydrated I will sometimes put him into his water bowl when putting him back into his cage but he doesnt seem to want anything to do with the water.

if you see his head going into the water bowl he could be drinking, when they put their heads into water you should be able to see his mouth touching the water that would be him drinking..

or i think another way BUT DON'T TAKE MY WORD FOR THIS is that you could get a bowl of water Luke warm, i am not sure and just gently push his head into the water for a few seconds but in no way am i sure about this so i would ask other people for advice about that.. don't try anything without finding out first :)

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Originally Posted by SRMD94

if you see his head going into the water bowl he could be drinking, when they put their heads into water you should be able to see his mouth touching the water that would be him drinking..

or i think another way BUT DON'T TAKE MY WORD FOR THIS is that you could get a bowl of water Luke warm, i am not sure and just gently push his head into the water for a few seconds but in no way am i sure about this so i would ask other people for advice about that.. don't try anything without finding out first :)

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He never puts his head in it from what ive seen, he just quickly slithers out and goes to hide. Last night when I put him in the warm water he did stay in for a few seconds, but he looked more like he was too scared to move (all coiled up) rather than enjoying it, then he quickly got out again.

I dont think I would want to force him to drink yet though.

Some can get a very pink belly before shed. Your guy does look faded/washed out like going into shed. Maybe its just angle of the pic too, but lower jaw looks funny/small to me????

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

Some can get a very pink belly before shed. Your guy does look faded/washed out like going into shed. Maybe its just angle of the pic too, but lower jaw looks funny/small to me????

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Maybe he is deformed? I also noticed he nevers flickers his tounge.

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

Maybe its just angle of the pic too, but lower jaw looks funny/small to me????

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I thought exactly the same thing with the jaw it looks a little weird


Can you get another picture of his head? a few shots of his head?
maybe if you think the jaw, you should let a vet check it out?

And also most snakes are stressed by going in water because your forcing him to go in there, and he is not going in the water at his own free will.

Make sure you bump your humidity up to 75% tho during his shed, do this by misting his tank!
and reduce temps to 88-92 Hot spot.

Do you have more pics of his head and jaw?

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Originally Posted by SRMD94

or i think another way BUT DON'T TAKE MY WORD FOR THIS is that you could get a bowl of water Luke warm, i am not sure and just gently push his head into the water for a few seconds but in no way am i sure about this so i would ask other people for advice about that.. don't try anything without finding out first :)

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NOoooooooOOOOooooooo. No. When you were young and sick and consequently dehydrated, did your mother push your head into a bowl of gatorade where you couldn't breathe?


He looks a little thin to me. And I agree that the head looks different than other ball pythons.

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Originally Posted by Poseidon

NOoooooooOOOOooooooo. No. When you were young and sick and consequently dehydrated, did your mother push your head into a bowl of gatorade where you couldn't breathe?


He looks a little thin to me. And I agree that the head looks different than other ball pythons.

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I Didn't say gatorade?

and i think human babies and snakes are completely different hehe ;)

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Originally Posted by Poseidon

NOoooooooOOOOooooooo. No. When you were young and sick and consequently dehydrated, did your mother push your head into a bowl of gatorade where you couldn't breathe?


He looks a little thin to me. And I agree that the head looks different than other ball pythons.

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LOL! . . . But the snake looks pretty thin and dehydrated to me. If it never flicks his tongue it could be a neural thing and the head and jaw looks a little funky to me too.

Here are some more pictures taken just now. He kept squirming around so they didnt come out very clear.

http://i49.tinypic.com/w7lkrn.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/11gokn4.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/11qsr9y.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/30daquc.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/34ynzns.jpg

That poor guy definitely needs some good eats! Hes super skinny and the head shape is definitely not right....

Maybe you should get that head checked out, something is defiantly not right there :/

Also, how old is he/she?
How much does he/she weigh?
What do you feed him/her?
How often do you feed?

Also have you now reduced your temps?
and bumped up your humidity?

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Originally Posted by SRMD94

Maybe you should get that head checked out, something is defiantly not right there :/

Also, how old is he/she?
How much does he/she weigh?
What do you feed him/her?
How often do you feed?

Also have you now reduced your temps?
and bumped up your humidity?

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Well I got him a week ago and hes only about 16-18inches. So I wouldnt say more than a few months. Dont know about weight, but pretty light.

He got fed a f/t fuzzy last wednesday and he ate it without a hitch(no jaw problems or trouble getting it down).Im told he was fed about ten days before that. I tried feeding last night but he wasnt interested.

And I have the humidity at 78 right now and cool side temp at 81.

I tried finding a vet nearby that specializes in reptiles but I only found one that may know about snakes.

You should defo invest in some digital scales, your humidity sounds fine just keep it in 70s for a few days... You should try and get him on a five day feedin schedule feed him every 5 days and you may have to travel to find a pet or just ask for a consultation about the skull area, I hope everything works out for you. Goodluck.

Btw if you want to try this method to get your ball to eat,

Get the rodent, make sure its not too big or too small! (that is why you need digital scales)

place the rodent on a plate frozen nearby or on top of your snakes cage and let it thaw out for 30mins - 1 hour.

once you know it is defrosted, get a blow/hair dryer and blow the scent of the rodent towards your snakes cage, also while doing this you will be heating the rodent.

Make sure the rodents head is hot once the ball is out looking around for the rodent, dangle it from above and kind of move it like its struggling (zombie dance)

if your snake strikes great, if it doesn't then leave the rodent in the cage overnight.

If the rodent is still in the cage in the morning remove it and try again in another 5 days.

You should with both rats and mice, but they must be appropriate sized for your ball depending on his weight.

Almost looks like the jaw is under developed. He looks pretty pink. How long has he been pink? Pink could also be a burn. What are you using to heat tank?

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i had a problem with mt little girl when she was that size, (Minus the jaw issue), when she would get dehydrated, i would give her a good soak in 80-85 degree water(NO DEEPER THEN 2/3 OF HER BODY) for about 20 minutes a day, when i did more research, i also found that the enclosure was to large, so she would not go to the water dish, when i put her in a smaller enclosure, the problem stopped. i dont know why she did that, but it seemed to work, and have not had a problem since. i dont know what you have yours in, but i thought this might help.

Im gonna jump back to the original question.
my bp gypsy i saw him all wrinkly a few days a go but then i saw he had a pink belly 2 days latee hes "in the blue"
i think your little one is just about to shed. Like others have said boost up up the humidity and i think hell ne fine.

I would definetly find a vet to get his head sheleton structure checked out.

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

Almost looks like the jaw is under developed. He looks pretty pink. How long has he been pink? Pink could also be a burn. What are you using to heat tank?

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Well I guess you could say hes been pink for a week and a half, I got him last monday and he was very pink now hes more grey as you can see, but still a liittle pinkish. Im using an under the tank heater right now and I know if his hot side ever gets too hot he does move to the cooler side, i have a hide on both sides for him.

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Originally Posted by alysha

Well I guess you could say hes been pink for a week and a half, I got him last monday and he was very pink now hes more grey as you can see, but still a liittle pinkish. Im using an under the tank heater right now and I know if his hot side ever gets too hot he does move to the cooler side, i have a hide on both sides for him.

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Do you have a thermostat on your heat pad???

I am using a thermostat for the UTH. I am keeping his hide side at about 89 now and the humidity has been in the high 60s. He still shows no signs of shedding, eyes and skin are clear. He still has the loose skin, still wont eat, havent seen him drink. He never even comes out of his hide, just stays in there all night long as far as i know. I havent disturbed him for a few days. The last time I took him out I tried to feed him, he wasnt interested (my cat ended up eating the f/t mouse) he was active though, moving around alot. I am just very worried hes getting very dehydrated and malnourished and dont know what I can do.

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Originally Posted by alysha

I am using a thermostat for the UTH. I am keeping his hide side at about 89 now and the humidity has been in the high 60s. He still shows no signs of shedding, eyes and skin are clear. He still has the loose skin, still wont eat, havent seen him drink. He never even comes out of his hide, just stays in there all night long as far as i know. I havent disturbed him for a few days. The last time I took him out I tried to feed him, he wasnt interested (my cat ended up eating the f/t mouse) he was active though, moving around alot. I am just very worried hes getting very dehydrated and malnourished and dont know what I can do.

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Go to a vet get some checkups

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Originally Posted by alysha

I am using a thermostat for the UTH. I am keeping his hide side at about 89 now and the humidity has been in the high 60s. He still shows no signs of shedding, eyes and skin are clear. He still has the loose skin, still wont eat, havent seen him drink. He never even comes out of his hide, just stays in there all night long as far as i know. I havent disturbed him for a few days. The last time I took him out I tried to feed him, he wasnt interested (my cat ended up eating the f/t mouse) he was active though, moving around alot. I am just very worried hes getting very dehydrated and malnourished and dont know what I can do.

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Are you feeding in a separate enclosure? If so then that could be a reason he hasn't been eating. All your doing is stressing him out by handling him before trying to feed. There's no need to feed in a separate enclosure.

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Originally Posted by Sky1982

Are you feeding in a separate enclosure? If so then that could be a reason he hasn't been eating. All your doing is stressing him out by handling him before trying to feed. There's no need to feed in a separate enclosure.

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I usually put him in a small cardboard box to feed. He didnt have a problem the first time I fed him, he ate the mouse without a hitch. I will try and feed him in his cage though. How do I get him to come out of his hide to feed?

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Originally Posted by alysha

I usually put him in a small cardboard box to feed. He didnt have a problem the first time I fed him, he ate the mouse without a hitch. I will try and feed him in his cage though. How do I get him to come out of his hide to feed?

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Pre scent the room let the rodent thaw out in the same room as your snake, or just dangle it couple steps back from his hide until he comes out you have to be patient, don't stick it up close to his hide though.

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Originally Posted by SRMD94

Btw if you want to try this method to get your ball to eat,

Get the rodent, make sure its not too big or too small! (that is why you need digital scales)

place the rodent on a plate frozen nearby or on top of your snakes cage and let it thaw out for 30mins - 1 hour.

once you know it is defrosted, get a blow/hair dryer and blow the scent of the rodent towards your snakes cage, also while doing this you will be heating the rodent.

Make sure the rodents head is hot once the ball is out looking around for the rodent, dangle it from above and kind of move it like its struggling (zombie dance)

if your snake strikes great, if it doesn't then leave the rodent in the cage overnight.

If the rodent is still in the cage in the morning remove it and try again in another 5 days.

You should with both rats and mice, but they must be appropriate sized for your ball depending on his weight.

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From my observance on this forum, this is what will get him out of his hide. It's called pre-scenting I believe? Basically he will get that zombie mouse cologne all in his cage and it will trigger a feeding response. While thawing / heating with blow dryer he "should" poke his head out of his hide. If not, you could do the zombie dance in front of the hide for a few moments, and if he doesn't tag it, leave it there as stated above. (This next part is speculation, so please correct if wrong) I would probably try this closer to evening (or when your lights go out, if you have him on a day / night cycle) As they are nocturnal and hunt mode is in the evening. Please excuse any errors, I am basing this off of what I have read. I hope he eats swiftly for you!

EDIT: SRMD94 is faster..lol I R slow :D

Thanks for all the help guys. I will try to scenting method tonight. Hopefully I can get this little guy to eat something and start perking up a bit.

I do still need to take him to a vet but I have been having trouble finding a reptile specialist nearby.

He looks very VERY thin to me.. You see that triangular shape of his body? It should be round and plump. The skin wrinkles could be dehydration, but I think it is because he is so thin.

His head shape is a little strange, but if he eats just fine I don't see a problem. A vet could do an x-ray, but there is nothing you can do about a deformity like that. So I wouldn't see the point.

I know you said you were using a thermostat, but the nearly 2 week long pink belly leads me to believe it is a burn. Could you tell us where the thermostat probe is placed and where your probe for the thermometer is placed? These two small things can have a big impact on the temp the snake actually feels.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

He looks very VERY thin to me.. You see that triangular shape of his body? It should be round and plump. The skin wrinkles could be dehydration, but I think it is because he is so thin.

His head shape is a little strange, but if he eats just fine I don't see a problem. A vet could do an x-ray, but there is nothing you can do about a deformity like that. So I wouldn't see the point.

I know you said you were using a thermostat, but the nearly 2 week long pink belly leads me to believe it is a burn. Could you tell us where the thermostat probe is placed and where your probe for the thermometer is placed? These two small things can have a big impact on the temp the snake actually feels.

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He had the pink belly when I purchased him, which I too think it may have been a burn where he was kept, and thats why it turned grey after I had him a little while and he started healing, its looking better now. Heres how I have the tank set up, the UTH is attached to the bottom of one side, then I placed a layer of green felt tank liner inside the cage over the heater then a layer of aspen bedding throughout the tank. Over the heated side I have a rock hide, and inside the hide on top of the bedding I have the thermostat probe/thermometer. On the cool side I have another thermometer/hydrometer.

I would recommend taking your thermostat probe and adhering it to the outside of the UTH (on the bottom). I recommend this because then your snake will not be able to move the probe and give your thermostat a false reading. If this happens, the UTH can overheat.

I would also take out the reptile carpet. That stuff is very hard to clean. If you really want something in between the glass and aspen you can use paper towels. Cheap and disposable. Don't rely on the substrate to keep your snake off the glass, always assume your snake can get to any point within the enclosure. To ensure no place in the tank is too hot, I like to place a probed thermometer (separate from the thermostat) right on the glass above the UTH, under the substrate. This will give you the temp of the hottest point the snake can reach.

For now, I would just keep the snake on clean paper towels until you can figure out whats going on with his belly.


Did you purchase this snake from a pet store? I know a good breeder would never sell an animal to someone in that condition. :( Is there any reason why you purchased it from the place you did?

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

I would recommend taking your thermostat probe and adhering it to the outside of the UTH (on the bottom). I recommend this because then your snake will not be able to move the probe and give your thermostat a false reading. If this happens, the UTH can overheat.

I would also take out the reptile carpet. That stuff is very hard to clean. If you really want something in between the glass and aspen you can use paper towels. Cheap and disposable. Don't rely on the substrate to keep your snake off the glass, always assume your snake can get to any point within the enclosure. To ensure no place in the tank is too hot, I like to place a probed thermometer (separate from the thermostat) right on the glass above the UTH, under the substrate. This will give you the temp of the hottest point the snake can reach.

For now, I would just keep the snake on clean paper towels until you can figure out whats going on with his belly.


Did you purchase this snake from a pet store? I know a good breeder would never sell an animal to someone in that condition. :( Is there any reason why you purchased it from the place you did?

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I was planning on buying a new snake from a local reptile show, but when i was at the pet shop buying all the supplies I saw this little guy and felt like he needed a better home, so hopefully I can get him all fattened up and healthy asap.

I will try changing out the bedding and the thermostat, although i dont know if it will fit under my tank its kinda bulky.

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Originally Posted by alysha

I will try changing out the bedding and the thermostat, although i dont know if it will fit under my tank its kinda bulky.

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Go to walmart or target and get some felt pads for under furniture, you can cut them to fit under the tank and raise it. I had to do this for mine as well, the feet that came with the UTH weren't quite enough for the book case the tank sits on.

Well I came home today and my snake was dead :(

I found him laying half in half out of his cool side hide. Im not sure what happened to the little guy. I know he wouldnt eat for the past few weeks, he also never shed. I did notice two nights ago when I was holding him that he had a large lump inside him at the end of his tail. And today when I found him the lump was gone. I figure he was just passing stool? His belly scales were cracked a bit and its color almost looks like he has internal bleeding with varying shades of pink and dark grey coming from under the scales. Maybe when I first fed him the mouse was too big? Or maybe he just wasnt able to fully digest it right? I always keep his belly heat at good temps. I just dont know what could have cause this :(

I am so sorry for your loss. It sounds like he may not have been long for this world when you got him. The jaw definately looked off, he was thin, and I don't know what the skin issue was. I think he was just unhealthy. You came to the right place for help and answers. Hopefully your next baby is healthy and thrives for you. Sorry we couldn't help :(

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I'm sorry for your loss. Poor thing looked awful from the start.. Where did you get him? If you decide to try again, please don't buy from a pet store and certainly don't pick one that isn't fat and healthy looking from the start. These guys go downhill very quickly if they are not healthy and perfect from the start. Ball pythons are a thick bodied snake and any baby that has been properly started and is eating enough should have some good thickness already. I agree that it was deformed also. Whoever sold you that baby never should have sold it or even given it away in that condition.

So sorry about the loss of your little guy. Even though you haven't had him very long, I can attest to the fact that you can get attached to a baby ball really fast. I hope you don't take any of these suggestions as me implying that you did anything "wrong," but there are a few things you could consider to make sure your next baby is healthy and strong.

First of all, spend as much time as you need to to find a good reptile vet. If there's a herp society in your area, they can more than likely point you in the right direction. Herp societies often have a good partnership with one or two vets who offer discounted services to the members. If there is a society in your area, by all means, join it. Even before you add a BP to the family, getting involved with a local society is a great way to learn from experienced keepers. It's also a GREAT place to adopt. If you can adopt a rescued BP, please do!

Before you bring a new little one home, make sure your setup is perfect. If you can't find a herp society, it's a good possibility that one of the members here is close to your area. Having someone with as much experience as possible guiding you in the beginning can do wonders for the health of a new snake. If at all possible, once you're ready to bring one home, take a more experienced keeper with you. They can help you determine whether the animal you like is healthy enough to start off well, and talk you out of bringing home the one that looks pitiful and in need of rescue. You're not wrong for wanting to protect a weaker one, but it's not only an uphill battle to get them back to health, it encourages bad keeping practices. If a dealer/breeder knows they can sell unhealthy animals that are not well taken care of, they have no incentive to take better care of their stock. I'm sure you'd rather support the dealers and breeders that are doing the best for their animals.

Finally, my last suggestion might seem a little extreme. Keep in mind that I'm not, nor do I claim to be, an expert. I'm also more than a little over protective of my animals, so if someone here disagrees with this idea, remember that this is MY opinion...

If it were MY choice, I would scrap the entire setup that was used with this snake. I don't know what caused his death, and it's not a simple matter to find out. That being the case, I PERSONALLY wouldn't take the chance that "crypto" or something similar wasn't the cause. I realize it's not cheap to put together the correct habitat for a python, so tossing everything and starting from scratch is definitely going to hit you in the wallet. Still, from MY point of view, I'd rather my snake be safe than sorry. Ultimately it's your decision how you want to proceed.

-Ryan-

Thanks for all the condolences you guys. I think my little guy did have some kind of internal parasite or disease with the way his stomach looked when I found him, almost as if something ruptured :( I know now not to go to a chain store to buy my pets. I live around the Houston,Texas area. Is there a place on this site I can go to and find out about any breeders near me?