"Rescued" a group of ball pythons, have a few questions.

So, this is kind of an odd experience for me. A few days ago I get a text from a guy who buys mice form me from time to time. He has decided to get out of ball pythons and focus on his bearded dragons. I can understand that. Then he tells me he wants me to take his snakes. :O

I had no idea what to think. Was this a joke ? Was he wanting to pawn a bunch of normals off on me that I can't breed or sell later ? Were they sick or something else ? And where was I supposed to house them ?

So I tell him I'll think about it. Later that evening he calls me. He is serious about this. He has met me before, seen my snakes and knows how much I love them. He says a good home is much more important to him than money. He wants to send me all 10 of his ball pythons, their rack with heat and thermostats, their hides and water dishes, basically everything included. He says perhaps at a later date, he might like to get a morph from me, and he feels like if he gives me all these things, I'll be more likely to give him a good deal on a future purchase. :confusd:

So I drive to the guys house, and the first thing I notice is his house reeks. I don't know exactly what the smell was, but it gave me a headache within minutes, and left me feeling dizzy the rest of the night. He shows me the rack. Just a basic homemade melamine rack, seven tubs in it. He's got zoo med heat pads on each shelf and a pair of thermostats to run them. Then he starts pulling out the snakes. It turns out he has a cinnamon male, yellow belly male, spider male, mojave male, pastel female, and 5 normal females, two of which are breeding size. So we bag the snakes, manage to load the rack, hides, water dishes and such. Then, as I am leaving, he mentions that the spider and mojave both have RI, and he gives me a test tube that supposedly contains Baytril. They have never seen a vet, apparently he just calls his vet and tells him what he needs, and the vet gives it to him. :(

So I get the babies home, and later that night after hubby gets home we re-do the rack, which was a mess, and start getting the snakes settled. The spider seems fine, but the mojave definitely has an RI. Everybody is in quarantine right now, the mojave is separated from the others. They all act very hungry, and he tells me when I ask, he hasn't fed them for a few weeks so they would eat when I got them. :mad:

So, I am looking at this little test tube of Baytril, and it reads, "Bovine Baytril" no strength or anything. :colbert: I have no intention of using this stuff, but apparently he already has been. :weirdface Can this stuff hurt the snakes ? I have no idea what dose he's been using, but he claims he's been treating the spider for about 3 months now. :rage:

So here I am. I have my established collection of 25 snakes. 9 new ones in quarantine in the storage room, 1 in quarantine in the bathroom. I just keep wondering what on earth I got myself in to. Also, since I know the mojave has RI, what are the odds they all might, since they were in the same rack system, no quarantine at all when I got them ? Should I wait for them to show symptoms before I treat ? or just treat everyone as a preventative measure ? I realize treating them all will cost me a pretty penny, and I am prepared for that. All my husband could think about was, " Yes, free snakes!" Let this be a lesson, there is no such thing.

Ok, I guess I'm done rambling. Send some positive thoughts my way if you can. The next 6 months are going to be a bumpy ride for me.

Gale

Was the baytril he gave you supposed to be oral or injectable? And without the strength you would have no way of calculating a dosage, so I wouldn't use it either. Should probably get him to a vet if he's had the RI for a while already.

Gratz on the pickups though! Basically got an entire small breeding operation for free!

I wish somebody wanted to give me just a spider. Sounds like you have some work to do but it sounds like you really lucked out.

I would take the ones your concerned about to the vet. Then ask them if you should treat them all.

His vet gave him cow medication for a cow respiratory disease? I don't buy it. Says it's broad-spectrum antimicrobial for serious infections. Broad-spectrum means it's a general antibiotic. Like going to the doc for an ear infection - broad spectrum vs going to the doc for strep - narrow spectrum. I'd say yes, it is very possible it's hurting the snakes.

Keep them quarantined, keep the husbandry and cleanliness perfect and keep a close eye on them. I don't think it would make sense to treat all of them. I don't think they would all necessarily be infected. The one with the obvious RI might come around if conditions are improved, it's possible. Overall, use your best judgment and congrats!

Thanks for the replies.

It is supposed to be injectable Baytril. But, the label on it is hand written and simply says, "Bovine Baytril" no dosage, no strength, no anything. Not in a million years would I give this stuff to a snake.

The spider he says he's been treating for an RI for 3 months seems fine. No clicking, popping, wheezing, no mucous no nothing. The mojave has the classic symptoms of a mild RI, but he says he's never treated the mojave. :confusd:

I spoke to him again last night for more details, since the spider doesn't seem sick. I found out he's been treating him for an RI because he hisses when handled. :O Apparently he's never heard any of his snakes make that sound, so he knew it was an RI. The mojave's clicking and popping he figured was due to him re-aligning his jaws because he yawns so much, so he's pretty sure the mojave is fine. :rolleye2:

Heaven save me from stupid people. So, I will be going to my own vet today for the correct treatment for the little mojave. And I'll hope like heck that 3 months of cow baytril injections didn't do any lasting damage to the spider. Aside from almost certainly making anything he does catch anti-biotic resistant. :rolleyes:

I'm going to ask my vet about treating the group and see what she says. Since I no longer believe they have been exposed to an active RI for 3 months, I will probably just see what good husbandry and food does for them.

Naturally their quarantine will be a long one, just to be sure. The cinnamon, yellowbelly and pastel I know I am most likely keeping. The little spider I probably won't. Hubby has his, and I'm just not that in to spider's and spider combos. Once I know he's fine, he'll probably be sold. He's a handsome little guy. The two biggest normals hubby wants to keep { no surprise there since he's terribly jealous of my hard earned collection}. The smaller normal girls will go up for sale when I know they are healthy.

Tonight I'll be attempting to feed them after my own collection eats, and we'll see how that goes.

Gale

Oh wow, best of luck to you. And I could guess that bovine baytril would be pretty heavy stuff. Cows being large and all.

Good luck gale! I know its alot of work and some of your own money for vet bills but it seems like you got the better end of the stick here. Congrats on your new pickups.

ALthough after reading the whole story the thing i still am most curious about is the smell...? What did it smell like lol?:confusd:

I can't describe the smell.

It was like medicine, something sweetish, mildew, and ammonia all mixed together. A nasty, chemically smell. And it permeated his whole house. Upstairs and down. You could even smell it outside, standing near the door. The rack still smells like that. The hides and water dishes did until I washed them. Even the snakes smelled faintly of it for a day or so. I've never smelled anything like that, and considering how it affected me, I can't imagine it being healthy for him or his animals.


Gale

The smells you are describing are similar to crack cocaine and meth...It could be something different but I would deff get rid of that rack if I were you just to be on the safe side.

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Originally Posted by DavidMundy

The smells you are describing are similar to crack cocaine and meth...It could be something different but I would deff get rid of that rack if I were you just to be on the safe side.

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I was about to joke that he was making meth...

Well with that smell (especially if you can smell it outside his house) and the way he was acting I would say its a yes. Either way I would get rid of the rack to be on the safe side. Those chemicals are toxic and I wouldn't want anyone to get sick including those poor ball pythons.

Oh my God!

Are you serious ??!!!

That never even entered my mind. Well, payday is Thursday, and hubby is buying the materials to build a new rack, like it or not. Can breathing in the residue from that hurt me or my kids ? We don't go around the rack much, just for a few minutes twice a day to check snakes, but that is really scary!

Gale

Yes those chemicals can really mess someone up. My intentions are not to scare you but inform you that if it is meth you do not what to be around it. For all I know it could be something else but I doubt it with the way you described it and the way he acts. I wouldn't take any chance at all and stay away from it as much as possible until you can get a new rack.

Personally I doubt that if it was meth any small amount of fumes from the rack won't hurt you. You would have been in more danger at his house since meth tends to blow up. If that is what he was doing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mackynz

Personally I doubt that if it was meth any small amount of fumes from the rack won't hurt you. You would have been in more danger at his house since meth tends to blow up. If that is what he was doing.

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Actually a small amount of chemicals can hurt you and it stays around for a while. I work part time construction and remodeled plenty of meth and crack houses that have been out of "business" for years. You walk in and can still smell it. To treat it we had to nearly demo the whole house.


Do not take the chance. $150 for a new rack is priceless when it comes to you and your families health.

Oh I know just how serious those meth houses can be.

I have to wait a few days, no choice there, but I will be even more careful about being around that rack until then. And only I will be checking the snakes form now on. If that thing is dangerous, I don't want my kids near it.

I truly hope that isn't what it is, but I will be taking no chances.

One last thing I just thought of. Does anyone here use that F-10 disinfectant ? I remember seeing a bottle of it, and my husband originally thought that was the smell. I think it was called F-10.

Gale

I don't use it, so I don't know the smell, but it is called F-10.

Just keep the room well ventilated and get the new rack up ASAP.

I use F-10. It has a pretty mild smell. Hardly any smell once diluted. I honestly don't think it could possibly give off that strong of a smell.

Sounds like Heisenberg is getting out of the biz...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mackynz

I was about to joke that he was making meth...

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x2 i was gunna make the same joke! Thats scary stuff. Thank you for the info David!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by darthsamurai

I use F-10. It has a pretty mild smell. Hardly any smell once diluted. I honestly don't think it could possibly give off that strong of a smell.

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x2 I've never even noticed a smell with dilute F10, and I've had the nebulizer running in the same room.

I use the F-10. And notice a slight smell to it. but certainly not what you described, unless he sprayed
it all over his house- gallons of it, right before you arrived.
Once it dries, I can't smell it anymore.

I don't have enough experience with snakes to offer you any other tips or info.
but just want to say "kudos" to you, for taking on such a big task. I sure hope you can breed
them in the future and make some money- you certainly deserve it, after taking on this big of a rescue.

Good luck- hope they are all healthy and in new rack/ homes soon!

Was the sweet smell like cough syrup? If so, he was definitely cooking. And I can guarantee that everything you received is coated in its residues.

Keep the room well ventilated. Those chemicals can cause respiratory infections IN HUMANS. Be very careful with your electricity procedures. If you can smell it, it's very flammable.

In the meantime maybe a sealant on the racks for now could help contain the chemicals. But again, you'd have to be careful when applying that around the snakes.

There is a surprisingly large amount of meth-smelling-knowledge amongst the users on this site...

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Originally Posted by mackynz

There is a surprisingly large amount of meth-smelling-knowledge amongst the users on this site...

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:8::rofl:Well, the first poster had a very good explanation..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mackynz

There is a surprisingly large amount of meth-smelling-knowledge amongst the users on this site...

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What exactly are you implying? Also how does your post help out the OP in anyway?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mackynz

There is a surprisingly large amount of meth-smelling-knowledge amongst the users on this site...

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Knowledge is power.

Well having seen how he keeps his snakes I am sure that one day when he does come looking for a morph you would not provide him with one... If it were me I could not provide an animal to someone who I know will not care for the animal properly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DavidMundy

What exactly are you implying? Also how does your post help out the OP in anyway?

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That the amount of knowledge that suddenly came forth was comical. And the post didn't help the OP, much like your post asking how my post helped didn't help. Like how this post about how your post about my post not helping is also not helping.

Ok, side posting out of the way, I strongly suspect that this is indeed what was going on. I do know meth making produces a distinct smell, I live in Jefferson county Missouri, and about every other house here makes it according to police. I have just never smelled it. The best way I know to describe it is this: open a brand new prescription bottle of any sort of pills right overtop a heavily mildewed towel that someone spilled kool aid on and tried to clean it up with diluted ammonia and take a deep breath. It was sour, sweet, chemical and bitter all at once.

I have told my husband, and it was like a light went on in his head. He said, and I quote: All of a sudden, things make complete sense. He has agreed to make a new rack ASAP, and we will limit contact and exposure to the rack in the meantime.

The snakes appear to be in decent health for the most part. The younger ones seem very thin compared to the oldest two girls, I wonder if his suspected habit has anything to do with that?

Would wiping down the rack help any until we can replace it ? And no there is no way on earth he's getting anything from me anymore. Not even mice. All of a sudden, I think my mouse colony collapsed and I'm not getting babies from it.

Gale

Until the new rack is built, I would try wiping down the rack with a warm dish soap and water mixture. This might help break up any compounds on the surface, without risking a chemical reaction from bleach/ammonia/409/etc.

The babies are probably thin because he didn't keep track of when he was supposed to feed. Something about short-term memory...or something...I forget...;)

Kudos on your new babies, and best wishes that the little mojo RI is your only other glitch.

Glad to hear they are in your more than capable hands:gj::gj:

Good for you, saving all those poor little meth-snakes!!!

Good luck on getting them all in good health.

Update:

All of the rescues ate tonight, with the exception of the little mojave. That's the good news.

The bad news is, even being in that room for no more than a minute at a time, just long enough to open a tub and drop in food, gave me a raging headache and made me nauseated. Payday cannot get here soon enough.

Gale

Why don't you just buy a bunch of cheap locking storage containers from target or walmart, put the snakes in them temporarily and toss out the rack right away until you can get/make a new rack. If you have a small space heater you could keep the room heated at a safe temperature for the snakes. I'm new to ball pythons though so I'm not sure if that would hurt them or not but it seems like the logical thing to do :)

Bovine Baytil is okay for small animals like cats and dogs, as long as the dosage is correct (depends on the weight of the animal). I am not sure about snakes, but at least there is a chance that the Baytril has not done any further harm. Either way a trip to the vet can only benefit the snake. Just my 2 cents.

The 3 main items used to cook meth are, Anhydrous Ammonia, Litium, and Ephedrine. Later, certain solvents are used to clean, or refine it.
The strongest smell involved is the Ammonia, which if inhaled directly, can definitely be harmful. If what you are smelling, is residual odor of ammonia, absorbed by the wood of the rack, it may be annoying, but won't hurt you. But I can't say that it my not harm the snakes. Of course if they have been breathing it for this long, any harm would already have taken place.

bump. keep us updated!:(

Second Update:

The snakes seem to be adjusting well. They are all more active, and seem more..... with it? I guess it what I mean. They all actively explore at night now, and when held they all interact with me now instead of just kind of laying there listlessly.

Tomorrow is feeding day again, so if everything goes well they will continue to eat for me and only improve as time goes by. We will be keeping the Yellowbelly, Pastel, possibly the cinnamon, and for sure the two biggest girls.

The rack is gone now, and there is only the very faintest hint of a smell remains in the tubs. I might just scrub them out again and see if it goes away completely.

The little Mojave with the RI is much better now. And I am discovering that in addition to my own collection taking care of another 10 snakes is a job, but I think things are going very well. Of course, now I have babies hatching to add to the fun, so some days I feel like NERD.

Gale

What an INSANE experience. I mean, wow. It's really great that you were able to take them in like that though... poor things wouldn't have to stood too much of a chance with ol' boy. As soon as you started describing that smell, meth is exactly what popped into mind. :/ Growing up in a not so good part of town opens your eyes (and nose) up to all kinds of uncouth knowledge, like what cooking meth smells like. :rolleyes: Sad but true. Other than the RI issue and the overall craziness, it sounds like you kinda made out like a bandit. But I guess it just depends on if it was worth the hassle to you OP. lol :gj:

I am glad they are in good hands now and improving. I saw when you first posted and thought drugs but missed the part where you talked more about it. For the future I believe you can contact your local police station and they should be able to send out an officer to tell you if it is in fact drugs you are smelling. I know a few years ago there was stories circulating of people buying used cars not realizing they had been used to make drugs and when the new owner left their dog in the back seat while they went into a store the dog passed out from fumes, I never saw an actual report but that was the nice version. Just be very careful in the future and don't risk your health! If it gives you a headache from the smell it's probably not good for you. Sorry for the rant, bad history with my sisters friends who reeked of crack, they literally drove me out of the house when they visited.

Third Update:

The snakes are doing very well now. Everyone ate on Sunday with the exception of the little Mojo with the RI. He is improving steadily, barely any symptoms anymore so I have high hopes he'll be over it soon. One thing I cannot get over is how much water these guys drink. I have to give them more water every two days or so. They drink three times as much as my established collection. I hope to be able to get a few photographs of them this week, I'd like to keep tabs on how they change over time.

Gale

Good job!!:O:gj:
Any pics?:)