Feeding mice vs rats?

I'm sure there are a billion different threads and even more opinions, but here's my take/question on it.

First, I like to live feed. I'm new to snakes but love all animals. My snake sleeps under a rock all week, his entire purpose in life is to make more snakes and eat rodents. That being said I do think all animals are rewarded for completing those tasks. I know it feels good when I catch and eat a fish, I won't even get into my personal breeding however :colbert:. I feed my snake mice, usually 2-3 at a time. He is 1600g and the last owner said he ate mice 2-3 at a time as well. Of course I also follow safe practices and watch him eat, he strikes fast and sure every time and a few times the strike itself appeared to break the spine of the mouse before he even constricted it.

I want to swap to rats for 2 reasons. 1) They're bigger so I don't have to have so many on hand, which is important as I want more snakes in the future and 3x? can get ugly each week. 2) Rat urine doesn't smell half as bad as mice, mice are gross. Rats are cleaner and as a result easier to breed in my limited space in the basement.

My issue is I want to live feed and I understand the dangers of the rodent biting my snake. I know mice can hurt him but I'm certain a bigger rat would do more damage even faster. I want to allow him to be as natural and happy as possible while still minimizing his exposure to danger.

What do you think? Swap to rats or keep feeding mice?

If you say mice, any ideas on how to house that many in a colony? And are there any dangers feeding wild caught mice to him? My friends and family have more than a few in barns in the area.

I would go with rats, I personally feed f/t, but if you go live just make sure to watch until the rat is dead.

Never feed wild caught rodents you have no clue what they could have gotten into (poison, parasites, etc.)

I would switch to rats. It doesn't matter what you are feeding anything with a mouth can bite. You shouldn't ever leave a live rodent with a BP unattended.

I am going to say switch to rats. better nutriants then the mice. 1600 grams? I had a 1300 gram that was eating a medium rat every two weeks... She probly could of even took a large rat. It seems that the even three adult mice would be two small for your snake.

Feeding live... as long as you understand the risk. I personaly want safety for my animals? but I had a couple that just wouldn't take f/t

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Never feed wild caught rodents you have no clue what they could have gotten into (poison, parasites, etc.)

I would switch to rats. It doesn't matter what you are feeding anything with a mouth can bite. You shouldn't ever leave a live rodent with a BP unattended.

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Good call on the wild rodents, I was more worried about parasites but poisons are a good call for sure. Could the same be said for pet-store rats? I know they get shots from vets.

Also, can he really eat a full grown rat? He's 3.5-4ft and 1600g ... the rats at petsmart looked huge, are there different species I can find to breed that may be smaller or better suited?

You don't want to buy the rats from petsmart, not only are they ridiculously overpriced, but they don't come in the various sizes required. You need to find a source of feeder rodents.

I buy mine online from a site called rodent pro I save $250-$300 over a 6 month period buying my rodents from Rodent Pro:

http://www.rodentpro.com/

If you are really wanting to stick with live you are going to need to either find a local rodent breeder or a reptile shop that sells feeder rodents.

A BP can't eat full grown rats but smalls-medium rats are a staple of most BP's diets.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

You don't want to buy the rats from petsmart, not only are they ridiculously overpriced, but they don't come in the various sizes required. You need to find a source of feeder rodents.

I buy mine online from a site called rodent pro I save $250-$300 over a 6 month period buying my rodents from Rodent Pro:

http://www.rodentpro.com/

If you are really wanting to stick with live you are going to need to either find a local rodent breeder or a reptile shop that sells feeder rodents.

A BP can't eat full grown rats but smalls-medium rats are a staple of most BP's diets.

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This is what I hate about BP's :( too many conflicting statements. I was told 15% of body weight, thats 225-240g. That is a large rat, so how can it be that he can't eat one?

If he can't eat an adult rat is there any harm in feeding multiple mice? I want to breed my own, no breeders within an hour of my house and I enjoy doing as much myself as I can.

And are their different breeds of rodents that would be 200g~ at adult weight and easy to colonize?

the 15% rule works really well with hatchling BP's but not so well with adults. They don't need as much food once that have stopped growing.

Large rats can be up to 600 grams... certainly too big.

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Originally Posted by 357

Good call on the wild rodents, I was more worried about parasites but poisons are a good call for sure. Could the same be said for pet-store rats? I know they get shots from vets.

Also, can he really eat a full grown rat? He's 3.5-4ft and 1600g ... the rats at petsmart looked huge, are there different species I can find to breed that may be smaller or better suited?

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A BP can easily eat a rat 1.5x the size of the largest part of his body. 2x for sure if FT. The live vs FT thing comes down to 3 things:

1) What will snake eat?
2) What is safest?
3) what is cheapest/time efficient?

I know most big breeders feed live. Can you imagine having to defrost 50-100 rodents at every feed? And then re freezing/throwing out any rejected ones? But they also breed the feeders, and have that part down to a science.

With my 5 snake "collection" I have no trouble defrosting 5 at a time, and can rest ez nobody will get hurt during feeding.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

the 15% rule works really well with hatchling BP's but not so well with adults. They don't need as much food once that have stopped growing.

Large rats can be up to 600 grams... certainly too big.

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Any idea on the 3mice? Will it hurt him at all?

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Originally Posted by 357

Any idea on the 3mice? Will it hurt him at all?

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Will it hurt him? No. Is it a pain to deal with? I'd say so. If you are willing to put the extra time in then I don't see any issues with it.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Will it hurt him? No. Is it a pain to deal with? I'd say so. If you are willing to put the extra time in then I don't see any issues with it.

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I was thinking I might try feeding one mouse and then a F/T rat, almost like force-feeding but not quite as I don't want to over feed. Past owners said he doesn't do F/T at all.

I know it sounds silly but I really think he enjoys the hunting/killing part of life. He lives under a rock, I owe him some enjoyment :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 357

I was thinking I might try feeding one mouse and then a F/T rat, almost like force-feeding but not quite as I don't want to over feed. Past owners said he doesn't do F/T at all.

I know it sounds silly but I really think he enjoys the hunting/killing part of life. He lives under a rock, I owe him some enjoyment :)

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That is what some people call piggy-backing. With some BP's it works really well.. others not so much. Give it a shot see what happens!

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

That is what some people call piggy-backing. With some BP's it works really well.. others not so much. Give it a shot see what happens!

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Awesome, I'll see if I can get it to work tonight and will post a video if he does. May be worth saving for anybody else who has questions (and who doesn't have questions? that's why we're on a forum!)

He took a 200g frozen rat in under 30seconds of me offering it! All I had to do was heat it up to 100 degrees in a zip-lock floating in a tupperware dish of hot tapwater.

Weird part? He actually brought it into his hide to eat it. Thought it was strange. I'm sitting here peering in and he's gumming it down though so if it makes him happy it makes me happy!

As for my prior concerns about his happiness I weighed it against economic issues (buying rats in the right size) and his quality of life (safety vs thrill of the hunt). I decided if it's warm and fresh and I dance it around he won't know the difference and everybody wins!

Glad he takes the FT, but he gets no "thrill" or "enjoyment" from killing. Its instinctive 100%.

FT is a safe, cost effective way to feed your pet

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Originally Posted by AdamF

Glad he takes the FT, but he gets no "thrill" or "enjoyment" from killing. Its instinctive 100%.

FT is a safe, cost effective way to feed your pet

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Please explain masturbation :D

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Originally Posted by 357

Please explain masturbation :D

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Does your BP do that?
If so, we need pic