Hot vs Cool hide?

I am new to snakes and rescued a ball off from craigslist. I've had him a month and I am REALLY excited to work with him(her?) and hope to collect more in the future, I am hooked for sure! With that being said, read below.

History: I've had my snake for a month. He took a live mouse the first time we fed him (48hrs of him being "home"). He's had one shed and eaten 2-3 mice at a time each week. He seems incredibly healthy and I don't care what anybody says, he likes being handled. If my wife or I have him out and set him on our bed he immediately climbs back onto our arms and seems quite content to hang out on our shoulder (straight neck, no hissing and I almost have to wrestle him into his tank). The tank is where I have my issue. It is a 20gallon long tank with aspen and an UTH under his rock hide (bought it at PetSmart and he seems to love it). I have a thermostat with a probe under his hide and typically kept it at 82-85 degrees. I noticed the cage would drop to 75-80 ambient even with a towel over the top. I figured I should turn up his UTH to raise the temps, we have a heat lamp but only want to use it when we NEED to use it.

Issue/Question: I wanted to turn up the UTH but I didn't want him to be uncomfortable. I purchased an identical hide last night. I went so far as to inspect the inside to make sure the texture was the same. I have an UTH under the one and the other is just ambient. When I got home from work a few minutes ago I noticed the UTH had his warm hide at 91.7 and I am concerned as my wife said it was that temp all day. Should he have moved from there to his other hide? Is it too warm? Am I just worrying because I am new to this? Below is the picture of his home, his warm side is on the right.

Tonight we'll be getting some of that spray on window frosting and covering 3/4 of the glass panels to keep him happier. Sometimes he gets jumpy if I change web pages at night as the screen is just to the right in the picture.

http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/...627121720a.jpg

His hot spot should always be around 90F and if you are feeding 3 mice per feeding it's time for larger prey.

Also this. :)

I've thought about going with larger, in fact I was looking at rats last night. It's probably worth of another thread though as I have a lot of questions on that.

I'll go post that question now! Thanks for reminding me!

Feeding 15% body weight is a good rule of thumb!

UTH's do NOT change the temperature of the air in the tank. Please read this thread on cage heating. It should clear things up.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...04#post1845904

Your hot side needs to be between 88-92 degrees

Your cool side needs to be between 80-84 degrees

Your humidity needs to be between 40%-60% normally, 60%-80% during shed

Alright, thanks for the great read. I'll be ditching my analog thermometers tonight and getting the digital one you suggested. I already use the hyrdofarm thermostat for my UTH.

I suspect my analog thermometers are reading false if the UTH doesn't raise temps as my house is usually cooler than they have read.

So your advice is to use the heat lamp and monitor the humidity, correct? I purchased the tank and it came with aspen but I bought some cypress last night so I'd feel better about his humidity if he had a heat lamp and a better substrate for moisture.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, would a blacklight bulb work for him? I know it throws heat and I have a few on hand 40-75w from my partying days. I figure I could use less heat more often with a 40w bulb. The 100w infared we have is just too much for him to have on all the time, cage would be like a desert.

it all depends on what your temps end up being. I live in Florida where is is hot and humid so I don't need a heat lamp to boost the air temps in my cages but someone in Canada during the winter is going to have a totally different set up.

Get the thermometer/hygrometer and see where your temps are. then go from there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

it all depends on what your temps end up being. I live in Florida where is is hot and humid so I don't need a heat lamp to boost the air temps in my cages but someone in Canada during the winter is going to have a totally different set up.

Get the thermometer/hygrometer and see where your temps are. then go from there.

---

I live in Maine, all the perks of Canada's climate with the pride of being an American! But yeah, it is usually sub 70 every night year round here.

Then an infrared heat lamp is going to be required to keep the air temperature in the right range

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Then an infrared heat lamp is going to be required to keep the air temperature in the right range

---

May be a silly question, will a blacklight disturb him at night?

No, but I have found that Infrared heat bulbs work much better than backlight heat bulbs do. (neither should bother a snake at night)

Ironically the 100w bulb was cheaper than a 50w by almost 1/2! I figure 40w is 40w is 40w, I do electrical work and regardless of wavelength the bulb is emitting the same heat.

That isn't necessarily the case

I have 50 watt IR bulbs that put out more heat than a 75 watt backlight bulb.

wavelength, efficiency, and the type of glass used in the bulb will make the heat outputs vary. Some Blacklight bulbs use special glass that allows some UV to get through

Also might be worth mentioning that the Infared bulb will lower your humidity considerably. You won't be able to see for yourself until you get a digital hygrometer.

Is the thermostat probe INSIDE the enclosure? if so, I would recommend moving it to the outside and tape it directly to the heat mat. That way the snake can't move it or pee on it or mess it up and give the thermostat a false reading, which would cause the heat mat to overheat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaorte

Also might be worth mentioning that the Infared bulb will lower your humidity considerably. You won't be able to see for yourself until you get a digital hygrometer.

Is the thermostat probe INSIDE the enclosure? if so, I would recommend moving it to the outside and tape it directly to the heat mat. That way the snake can't move it or pee on it or mess it up and give the thermostat a false reading, which would cause the heat mat to overheat.

---

But a heat lamp is necessary in this situation so it is something that will have to be dealt with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaorte

Also might be worth mentioning that the Infared bulb will lower your humidity considerably. You won't be able to see for yourself until you get a digital hygrometer.

Is the thermostat probe INSIDE the enclosure? if so, I would recommend moving it to the outside and tape it directly to the heat mat. That way the snake can't move it or pee on it or mess it up and give the thermostat a false reading, which would cause the heat mat to overheat.

---

Wouldn't the probe being outside on the mat cause it to be too cold? The heat goes up, probe would be on bottom. Also I use mulch for substrate and it has to have heat loss there.

It is a safety issue... You want the probe attached directly to the UTH for 2 reasons (you want the probe sandwiched in-between the bottom of the tank and the UTH)

1. so your snake can't move the probe (which could result in burns to your snake since the thermostat thinks that the UTH is colder than it really is)

2. If the probe is attached directly to the UTH it can help prevent heat build up that can cause a UTH to fail (which can result in a fire)

This is where a good thermometer comes in. The thermostat will regulate the UTH to the temperature that you set it to. The thermometer tells you how hot the cage is. You set the thermostat based off of your thermometer readings.

You will have heat loss to the bottom of the cage and whatever substrate that you use. (some more than others). For UTH's to be effective your substrate layer needs to be 1/2" thick or less so the heat from the UTH can get up to the surface without making the bottom of the cage to hot.

You know, I am very happy I asked these questions.

But I'm pretty ~angry~ too! Now I have to redo my whole setup!

Not a huge deal, I'll just put another UTH under the other side and put the probe between the tank and UTH when I attach it, glad I bought more stuff than I needed.

Yeah there is a pretty steep learning curve with reptiles... don't worry you aren't alone. Most if not everyone on this site has been through what you are going through right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Yeah there is a pretty steep learning curve with reptiles... don't worry you aren't alone. Most if not everyone on this site has been through what you are going through right now.

---

The good news? I'm married so I'm used to spending lots of money on things I already thought we had!

I just wanted to add:

I found having a glass tank to be a real pain. I live in Canada and my room temps go below 75 at night. Humidity was also a pain, even when I covered his screen with a wet cloth. That darn lamp killed the humidity hardcore.

I'm assuming that you want your snake as a "display" snake. I'd suggest looking into a PVC tank. I just got mine and am loving how easy it is to maintain temps/humidity compared to when I hAd my boy in an aquarium.

Of course, many people have had success with an aquarium set up. I just found it to be a real pain. I couldn't turn my fan on or have my window open without his ambient temps changing. Just something for you to ponder.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d15b6bd5-1a14-bd2d.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobbafett

I just wanted to add:

I found having a glass tank to be a real pain. I live in Canada and my room temps go below 75 at night. Humidity was also a pain, even when I covered his screen with a wet cloth. That darn lamp killed the humidity hardcore.

I'm assuming that you want your snake as a "display" snake. I'd suggest looking into a PVC tank. I just got mine and am loving how easy it is to maintain temps/humidity compared to when I hAd my boy in an aquarium.

Of course, many people have had success with an aquarium set up. I just found it to be a real pain. I couldn't turn my fan on or have my window open without his ambient temps changing. Just something for you to ponder.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d15b6bd5-1a14-bd2d.jpg

---

PVC Cages are my preferred choice as well. Tanks can be made to work... but they are much harder to maintain than PVC cages are:

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...t/c22733cf.jpg

Well, made the changes. Seems to be MUCH better now. I got the accurite in/out thermometer with humidity. With the UTH and a 40w Black Light above his warm hide all night my temps were a stead 91 in warm hide, 95 above it, 79 for cold side ambient temp and humidity is 60.

I also changed my mulch to the cypress and hooked up his larger UTH with the probe in it as well. WIth a towel over the top of 3/4 of the cage it seems PERFECT.

Thanks for the help!

If you don't want to use a towel, this is quick and easy. It will boost humidity way up and help with ambient temp a little too.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...tment-Tutorial

I like the towel actually. It's easy to adjust as needed and is super nice to have handy when I am checking his water or spot cleaning his cage.

And an update, was gone all day and came home and the tank stayed 90/80 with 60% humidity. I'm so grateful for the advice!