Having trouble feeding. I think my BP is scared of f/t rats.

Hello everyone! I'm new and this is my first post. I'm sorry if it's in the wrong place.

Anyways, I've had my ball python (names Mikhail) for almost a month now. He is my first ball python and is a male albino. I feed him rat pups. I've had 2 successful feedings with him so far. Things have been going smoothly with him until I tried feeding him these past couple of days. He recently shed on the 21st-22nd. I think it was a pretty good shed. No old skin left on him and it came off in one piece. I didn't attempt to feed him during shed because I didn't want to risk wasting a rat pup. I noticed that night he was hungry because I saw him moving around his enclosure looking for food. So I quickly got a frozen rat pup and waited for it to thaw. I usually thaw for 2-3 hours at room temperature. I either warm it up by using a blow dryer on low or putting the rat pup in a plastic baggie and submerging it into warm water for around 3-4 minutes. By the time I was ready he had his head sticking out of his hide. I dangled the thawed rat in front of him and he seemed interested. He then went straight up to it, smelling it and then poke it with his head. After that he would just stare at it. I try doing the good ol' zombie dance and he still just stares at it. This goes on for about 40 minutes. He then later retreats back into his hide not interested in it. I then decided to just feed him the upcoming Sunday (the 24th).

So Sunday night arrives and I'm ready to feed Mikhail. It would be exactly 2 weeks since his last feeding on the 10th. He is sticking his head out of his hide again. I dangle the frozen rat pup in front of him and he comes out halfway. Then he does the same thing as last time again. Goes up close flicking his tongue smelling it and pokes it with his head. I noticed that the rat was losing heat so I slowly lifted it up and all of a sudden my tongs lose grip on the rat pup and it fell a good 2 inches with a slight thump. He flinches but still stares. I proceed to the zombie dance and he get's in an S shape. Now at this point I'm thinking "Yay it's going to happen soon!", since it has been 30-ish minutes of zombie dancing. He then slowly retracts back into his hide. I then decide to just poke the rat pups head in the hides entrance just to see how he will react and hopefully strike. I hear him hiss as soon as I put the head in the entrance. Pretty much gave up that night after that. :(

Now fast forward to about 2 and a half hours ago. I tried feeding again. This time he was out exploring looking for food. Same thing as the last 2 feedings. This time he slowly puts his body into his hide while still staring the thawed rat pup down. By now his head is sticking out of the hide. I keep doing the zombie dance for about 20 more minutes 2-3 inches in front of him. He continues to stare. I then decide to try braining the rat pup. Once I did that I noticed he seemed more interested. He then pokes the rat pup with his head and then turns around and goes back into his hide. At this point it has been around 45-50 minutes and I gave up.

I would also like to point out that his temperatures and humidity are where it should be. I also haven't been handling him since the 22nd to hopefully reduce stress if there is any.

Sorry if this is a long read. I tried to give as much detail to my predicament as I can. I will be heading to bed now because I'm literally losing a lot of sleep because I'm so stressed right now from this, looking for a new job and I'm exhausted. I will check back here in the morning when I wake up. Thanks a bunch for reading and hope to hear what any of you think. :)

How warm are the rodents? And what is your cool side temperature? I've found that mine eat better when I have a hot side of 90 degrees and a cool side of 82 degrees.

Was the breeder feeding rat pups? If you dont know, I would ask. It maybe as simple as offering what it is used to. If couldnt hurt to offer a mouse to see what happens.

On the two successful feeds they were f/t?

Wait a few days before attempting to feed again.

Also you can re-freeze a feeder ONCE. If one of mine refuse I will wait 3 to 5 days depending on how long its been since the last feed.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

How warm are the rodents? And what is your cool side temperature? I've found that mine eat better when I have a hot side of 90 degrees and a cool side of 82 degrees.

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I'm not sure how warm they are but when I touch them they feel warm enough. I've been thawing and warming them up the same way ever since I got him. My cool side temps are on average 80-81 degrees. My hot side is always 89-91 degrees. More of a constant 90.

My first thought is they aren't thawed all the way or hot enough for him. Have you tried the hair dryer to the head? Second thought, how big is prey, how big is snake? Maybe they are too small, or too large and that's why he isn't interested. I have found, that with most of mine, they each have their own little quirks about eating, you will figure it out eventually. Lastly, they are bp's and not eating for no good reason is a special talent they have. :)

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

The rat may not have been warm enough. I submerge mine in hot water for 10-15 min depending on the size of the rodent. For rat pups I do 10 min. You want it to be the same temp as a live rat. Sometimes mine refuse if the rat isn't warm enough. And then sometimes snakes refuse feeds. If your temps are right, the rat is warm enough and everything else is fine you can chalk it up to typical ball python feeding behavior. I have one that will refuse 3 out of 4 meals. I refreeze a thawed rat once. If it's refused again I throw it away. Give him a week and then try again.

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Originally Posted by KMG

Was the breeder feeding rat pups? If you dont know, I would ask. It maybe as simple as offering what it is used to. If couldnt hurt to offer a mouse to see what happens.

On the two successful feeds they were f/t?

Wait a few days before attempting to feed again.

Also you can re-freeze a feeder ONCE. If one of mine refuse I will wait 3 to 5 days depending on how long its been since the last feed.

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I got him from a reptile pet store and they told me he was eating rat pups. The first two successful feeds were f/t rat pups. I've tried re-freezing once but the next day after thawing it out it smelled rotten. So I don't refreeze anymore. I last fed him on June 10. I noticed he was starting to enter shed by then so I waited until he finished shed to feed him again. Ever since his shed he has changed. :(

I'll try feeding him again this Friday. I just get really worried because he normally hides all day and at night he will just poke his head out of his hide. When I see him moving out at night I know he is usually looking for food. I just don't understand why he wont eat now.

Part of me feels like it was due to shed because when I first got him he looked like he had a not so good previous shed. I also noticed some skin covering his eyes. I figured he couldn't see well because the first two times I fed him, his strikes missed a couple of times before he finally got them. Since he had a pretty good shed I noticed his more brighter contrast and he can see better. No skin on his eyes. Could him seeing me trying to feed him is what makes him stressed and not eat?

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

My first thought is they aren't thawed all the way or hot enough for him. Have you tried the hair dryer to the head? Second thought, how big is prey, how big is snake? Maybe they are too small, or too large and that's why he isn't interested. I have found, that with most of mine, they each have their own little quirks about eating, you will figure it out eventually. Lastly, they are bp's and not eating for no good reason is a special talent they have. :)

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

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Yea I tried hair drying the head also. :(
He is almost 2 feet long. The rat pups are just about the size of his largest part on his body. The same size as when I had the successful feedings. I hope he eats soon. My main reason why I'm so worried when it comes to feeding is because he seems underweight to me because I can kind of see his spine a bit.

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Originally Posted by Punkymom

The rat may not have been warm enough. I submerge mine in hot water for 10-15 min depending on the size of the rodent. For rat pups I do 10 min. You want it to be the same temp as a live rat. Sometimes mine refuse if the rat isn't warm enough. And then sometimes snakes refuse feeds. If your temps are right, the rat is warm enough and everything else is fine you can chalk it up to typical ball python feeding behavior. I have one that will refuse 3 out of 4 meals. I refreeze a thawed rat once. If it's refused again I throw it away. Give him a week and then try again.

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I'll try warming it in hot water next time. I usually use a hair dryer to warm them up.

Also thanks to everyone for taking the time in replying! :)

Do you use tongs? I would recommend them, if not.

I stand off to the side of my tank as I feed and try to only present the feeder hanging from its tail by the tongs and as little of my arm as possible. If i stand to close it makes my BP standoffish and slow to react.

Like the others are saying. They may not be warm enough. I use warm water to warm the feeder in a ziploc like stated above.

I have one that is VERY shy and I can't have any bright lights on or anyone else in the room when I feed him. He's the same one that will refuse 3 out of 4 feeds. If one of my kids is dancing around behind me, or if the ceiling fan is on or the light is on, forget it. He won't feed. Do you have the sides and back of his tank covered with black paper or some other background? You can also place the rat on a plate and let it thaw on top of his cage. I've also placed a rat on top of the mesh and placed the heat lamp over it for a couple of minutes to get the scent to permeate the cage. Low lights, minimal movement, hot rat, pre-scent, and feed late at night. I 2nd the tongs! There's also the possibility that you're stressing him out and a stressed snake won't eat. I would try feeding him until he retreats into his hide. If he does that, leave him alone! 40 mins just seems like a LONG time to harass a ball python with a rat. I have a new spider girl that has fed twice for me by me leaving her rat in her hide on the hot side. You could try that, as well. Offer it to him, if he seems interested but doesn't strike, place it in his hide. Come back an hour later and see if anything is happening.

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Originally Posted by KMG

Do you use tongs? I would recommend them, if not.

I stand off to the side of my tank as I feed and try to only present the feeder hanging from its tail by the tongs and as little of my arm as possible. If i stand to close it makes my BP standoffish and slow to react.

Like the others are saying. They may not be warm enough. I use warm water to warm the feeder in a ziploc like stated above.

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Yes I use tongs. I'll try standing more out of view with less arm next time. I realize he did seem a bit standoffish these past few attempts at feedings. I'll try using warm water to warm them up this time as well.

I also, like Punkymom, keep it dark. I feed at night with no lights except that coming from the heat lamps. I hope these tips work for you.

Good Luck

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Originally Posted by Punkymom

I have one that is VERY shy and I can't have any bright lights on or anyone else in the room when I feed him. He's the same one that will refuse 3 out of 4 feeds. If one of my kids is dancing around behind me, or if the ceiling fan is on or the light is on, forget it. He won't feed. Do you have the sides and back of his tank covered with black paper or some other background? You can also place the rat on a plate and let it thaw on top of his cage. I've also placed a rat on top of the mesh and placed the heat lamp over it for a couple of minutes to get the scent to permeate the cage. Low lights, minimal movement, hot rat, pre-scent, and feed late at night. I 2nd the tongs! There's also the possibility that you're stressing him out and a stressed snake won't eat. I would try feeding him until he retreats into his hide. If he does that, leave him alone! 40 mins just seems like a LONG time to harass a ball python with a rat. I have a new spider girl that has fed twice for me by me leaving her rat in her hide on the hot side. You could try that, as well. Offer it to him, if he seems interested but doesn't strike, place it in his hide. Come back an hour later and see if anything is happening.

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I feed him at night and my room is practically pitch black. I have one light on that I block off so it allows me a little bit of sight but not enough to make it seem obvious that it's on. I don't have anything covering the sides of back of his enclosure. I use a Sterilite bin with holes around the sides and the lid. Should I consider putting some kind of background? on the sides and back? I usually thaw the rat on a towel on top of the lid near some of the air holes. Will leaving the thawed rat on the hot side be alright? Would leaving the rat in his hide not scare him? Also he prefers to hide on his cool side. In fact last night was the first time I've ever seen him in his hot side hide. I don't know if he just discovered it until now or decided to go in it when feeding failed. lol How long of a break is good so I don't harass him for 40 minutes again?

It just came to me. The reason the rat smelled bad when you thawed it a second time.

Leaving them out for hours to thaw allows the inners to start to break down. So then when you thawed it again they picked up right where they left off in the decomp process. You did good by not feeding that rat.

Stick to the water. Warm water is really fast. Make sure to feel the head. If it is not thawed you should be able to feel the cold still coming from the skull.

I turn the tap on hot. Plug the sink. Seal the bag. I then use a heavy bottle opener to keep the bag submerged therefor thawing the entire meal thoroughly.

its a f/t rat pup, just toss it in there and leave him alone for a couple hours instead of dancing it in front of his face. I bet when you come back to check it's gone :)

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

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Originally Posted by KMG

I also, like Punkymom, keep it dark. I feed at night with no lights except that coming from the heat lamps. I hope these tips work for you.

Good Luck

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Thanks! I don't have a heat lamp though. Should I invest in one? I use a Sterilite plastic bin for an enclosure and never really thought I needed one because my temps were fine without one.

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Originally Posted by blaze

I feed him at night and my room is practically pitch black. I have one light on that I block off so it allows me a little bit of sight but not enough to make it seem obvious that it's on. I don't have anything covering the sides of back of his enclosure. I use a Sterilite bin with holes around the sides and the lid. Should I consider putting some kind of background? on the sides and back? I usually thaw the rat on a towel on top of the lid near some of the air holes. Will leaving the thawed rat on the hot side be alright? Would leaving the rat in his hide not scare him? Also he prefers to hide on his cool side. In fact last night was the first time I've ever seen him in his hot side hide. I don't know if he just discovered it until now or decided to go in it when feeding failed. lol How long of a break is good so I don't harass him for 40 minutes again?

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If it doesnt eat in under 15 mintues it prob wont happen. If mine eats it happens quick. I usually wave the feeder near the hide its in and then wait for it to crawl out. Once out he is in feeding mode and goes to work.

If you mean placing the feeder on the warm side for the snake to get. Yes. If you mean to warm the feeder more. You have to be carful doing it. If the meat gets cooked at all it could end your snake. STICK TO WATER.

If your enclousure is clear you can cover the sides and back wall. Makes them feel more secure. I keep mine in a 40 gallon clear tank. While the sides arent covered they do have alot of cover hanging from them. If your enclousure is no clear, you should be fine.

If you never see him on the warm side I would check the temp there, sounds like it may be to hot.

I used to leave mine out to thaw but now I either put them in the fridge to thaw overnight or put them in a baggie and submerge them like KMG. I hope I didn't offend you by the harass comment. I didn't mean anything by it, that's what it seems like to the snake, KWIM? I would recommend that you cover the sides and back of his tank. You can go out and buy a fancy background or you can just use black construction paper. I've used both and they both work well. I don't think a rat in his hide would scare him. It's dead so it's not going to move around and he'll smell it before he sees it. I would give him a week of minimal handling (clean water and paper/substrate change only) before you try again. You could even do 2 weeks if you're patient (I personally am not that patient, LOL!). It takes a long time for a ball python to actually starve. I believe they can survive on a minimum of 1 meal a year in the wild. While far from ideal, I think your snake is going to be fine! Okay scratch the background. For some reason I thought you had your snake in a tank...I think I'm mixing up threads now! Sorry! Honestly, my finicky guy does much better in a rack so you may want to try and cover the sides with something. I have no idea what, though, considering the holes...yeah I'm really confusing myself here. Ugh. Sorry. Anyway, I hope some of this helps, LOL! And thanks for the idea, KMG! I've been using a bowl filled with water or a cup to try and keep the bag submerged. A bottle opener is a MUCH better solution.

If your temp are right you dont need one.

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Originally Posted by KMG

It just came to me. The reason the rat smelled bad when you thawed it a second time.

Leaving them out for hours to thaw allows the inners to start to break down. So then when you thawed it again they picked up right where they left off in the decomp process. You did good by not feeding that rat.

Stick to the water. Warm water is really fast. Make sure to feel the head. If it is not thawed you should be able to feel the cold still coming from the skull.

I turn the tap on hot. Plug the sink. Seal the bag. I then use a heavy bottle opener to keep the bag submerged therefor thawing the entire meal thoroughly.

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How long on average should I leave it submerged for?

Kinda depends. All three of my snakes eat different sizes.

The key is take it out and see how it feels. If the stomach moves freely and has no hard sport or cold spots and the skull when slightly squeezed feels warm it should be good to go. Prob between 10 and 15 mintues start checking it. The regualr Hot tap water wont cook it so you really cant do it to long and being in the bag wont cause it to bleed itself of its liquids.

@jbean7916 - Thanks! I will try leaving it next time.

@KMG - So if it's been more than 15 minutes he will most likely not eat? lol That will save me a lot of time. The enclosure is somewhat clear. I will try to put a background anyways just in case. I'll see if my warm hide is too hot. Judging by the temps it seems good but I can never know. I put a thermometer probe underneath the substrate on under the hide right where the UTH is. I did this because if he did decide to dig there I know how hot the very bottom would be. I don't want to risk him getting burned if he dug there. He pushed out most of the substrate on his cool hide out and he just hides there on top of the plastic. Could my cool side be too hot if he did that? Yet I think he likes to dig around because I once saw him dig in the corner near his water bowl and most of the substrate on his back fell into the water.

@Punkymom - How long overnight do you let them thaw in the fridge? If I feed him at night is the rat still thawing during the day if I leave it overnight? Or should I start to thaw the rat in the fridge in the morning so it's ready by night? Don't worry you didn't offend me with the harass comment. I actually felt like I was harassing him. lol I'll try covering the sides with black construction paper but avoid the holes. :) Maybe it'll help. I'll probably wait a week until next feeding. I'd probably lose my sanity if I waited two! lol I haven't handled him since last Friday. As much as I want to handle him I think I'll leave him alone until then just in case. Hopefully he eats next time. :D

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Originally Posted by KMG

Kinda depends. All three of my snakes eat different sizes.

The key is take it out and see how it feels. If the stomach moves freely and has no hard sport or cold spots and the skull when slightly squeezed feels warm it should be good to go. Prob between 10 and 15 mintues start checking it. The regualr Hot tap water wont cook it so you really cant do it to long and being in the bag wont cause it to bleed itself of its liquids.

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Great! Thanks! :) Does the rat being a bit moist from thawing inside the ziplock bag make a difference as well?

Oh noes! Another picky eater! (What, are all BPs re-incarnations of French food critics or something?)

What happens if you give him a fresh-killed mouse/rat pup?

I feed my guy in a brown paper grocery bag in a room with little light in the room. It's nice and dark, secure, and most importantly for my little stinker: he can't get out! I'm not so much worried by the possible "aggression issue" if you feed in the tank, he's about as aggressive as Buddha, but he seems to know when he's in the bag that food is coming, and he starts getting excited and flicking his tongue out a lot. Maybe yours would respond to some sort of Pavlovian "feeding-time" cue?

...still won't eat f/t, but, well...he's a stinker. :P

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Originally Posted by blaze

I'll try warming it in hot water next time. I usually use a hair dryer to warm them up.

Also thanks to everyone for taking the time in replying! :)

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Striking at the prey and recoiling is a sign of a stressed animal, not a hungry one. A angry/stressed out animal is not likely to eat, and if it does, the stress caused during the feeding (poking at the head, etc.) could result in regurge.
Also, moving around does not=hunger. They are nocturnal by nature, and could be probing for escape just as well.


Wait a week, try again.

i soak all of my feeders in very hot water, matter not to the snake in my case.

A moist feeder is fine BUT...this allows the substrate to stick to it more so your snake ingest more substrate than it should. While the substrate MOST LIKELY won't harm your snake to much can cause impaction.

As for your temps. I highly recommend getting a IR temp gun. If your cage floor at the probe is at 90 the thickness of the substrate will make the temp on top of the substrate very and it will be lower.

If you thaw it in water you really have no need to pre-thaw in the fridge. She is explaining like many will thaw meat like a steak or chicken for cooking. You do it so the meat is ready for cooking and doesn't require you to thaw it all the way when you want to cook it. Saves time. Feeders are so small though the water does a great job thawing them out.

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Originally Posted by KMG

A moist feeder is fine BUT...this allows the substrate to stick to it more so your snake ingest more substrate than it should. While the substrate MOST LIKELY won't harm your snake to much can cause impaction.

As for your temps. I highly recommend getting a IR temp gun. If your cage floor at the probe is at 90 the thickness of the substrate will make the temp on top of the substrate very and it will be lower.

If you thaw it in water you really have no need to pre-thaw in the fridge. She is explaining like many will thaw meat like a steak or chicken for cooking. You do it so the meat is ready for cooking and doesn't require you to thaw it all the way when you want to cook it. Saves time. Feeders are so small though the water does a great job thawing them out.

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Newspaper is my substrate. No worries there. Maybe my snakes will learn to read. I use temp gun too. I dont buy the 15 min thing though. My snakes are in my office, and occassionally they want total quiet before they eat. 2 spiders attack well, male pastel likes night time. I don't think you can say 15 min applies to all

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Originally Posted by AdamF

I don't think you can say 15 min applies to all

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Your right. But with his snake be picky, dangling the feeder for much longer is not gonna make it feed. If it doesn't happen it usually won't. Your just wasting time.

Now trying to just lay the feeder in the cage I would leave it longer but still wouldn't leave it longer than 30 minutes.

I am not one that likes to waste a feeder so I try to leave them thawed for the shortest amount of time possible. If they refuse for 15 minutes mine don't get to eat. I'm lucky and my snakes feed great, so missing one meal here and there doesn't bother.

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Originally Posted by KMG

Your right. But with his snake be picky, dangling the feeder for much longer is not gonna make it feed. If it doesn't happen it usually won't. Your just wasting time.

Now trying to just lay the feeder in the cage I would leave it longer but still wouldn't leave it longer than 30 minutes.

I am not one that likes to waste a feeder so I try to leave them thawed for the shortest amount of time possible. If they refuse for 15 minutes mine don't get to eat. I'm lucky and my snakes feed great, so missing one meal here and there doesn't bother.

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Agreed. The hunger/hunt instinct does not increase with prolonged zombie dance. If mine don't hit in 90 secs, they usually wont eat (rare) or want me to leave them alone and get out of the room. I dont have issue leaving feeder over night, but for some reason I do have issue thawing and re freezing.

i have read, in the wild, a BP will eat dead prey it comes upon.

I will not refreeze a rat if I leave it overnight.

As for thawing in warm water, I find that pups take - oh I dunno - an hour? Maybe a little longer? Small rats take a couple of hours. Basically this is what I do: Take rats and place in plastic bag (at this point they're still frozen solid), submerge in bowl of hot water and set timer for 30 min. Come back and check rats. They're never done at this point so I feel the water. Usually it's cooled down considerably so I replace it with fresh hot water and reset the timer for 30 min. Repeat until all rats are thawed. I do the Head Press and the Belly Squish (careful now, those are copyrighted terms!!!) to check for remaining ice. If I feel none then I do a final water change and leave them to warm up for 15-20 min longer. Now they should be nice a warm like a furry burrito from Taco Rat.

As for thawing in the fridge, it all depends on how long you're willing to wait for them to thaw. I usually put them in the fridge before I go to bed for the next evening. By then they're mostly thawed (pups are all the way thawed) and take between 30-40 min to warm up depending on how thawed they are and the current room temp. It takes longer in the winter. I have put them in the fridge in the morning, too. I've also just left them out on the counter for a few hours. It all depends on my schedule and what I'm going to have time for. If it's a church night they'll have been put in the fridge the night before because I don't feel like staying up until midnight feeding snakes.

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Originally Posted by OmNomNom

Oh noes! Another picky eater! (What, are all BPs re-incarnations of French food critics or something?)

What happens if you give him a fresh-killed mouse/rat pup?

I feed my guy in a brown paper grocery bag in a room with little light in the room. It's nice and dark, secure, and most importantly for my little stinker: he can't get out! I'm not so much worried by the possible "aggression issue" if you feed in the tank, he's about as aggressive as Buddha, but he seems to know when he's in the bag that food is coming, and he starts getting excited and flicking his tongue out a lot. Maybe yours would respond to some sort of Pavlovian "feeding-time" cue?

...still won't eat f/t, but, well...he's a stinker. :P

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I don't know if I could ever freshly kill a rat pup. Let alone kill anything. :( I don't feed in a separate container because I think it might freak him out.

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Originally Posted by AdamF

Striking at the prey and recoiling is a sign of a stressed animal, not a hungry one. A angry/stressed out animal is not likely to eat, and if it does, the stress caused during the feeding (poking at the head, etc.) could result in regurge.
Also, moving around does not=hunger. They are nocturnal by nature, and could be probing for escape just as well.


Wait a week, try again.

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Thank you for letting me know this! :) What do you think would stress him when I try to feed him?

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Originally Posted by KMG

A moist feeder is fine BUT...this allows the substrate to stick to it more so your snake ingest more substrate than it should. While the substrate MOST LIKELY won't harm your snake to much can cause impaction.

As for your temps. I highly recommend getting a IR temp gun. If your cage floor at the probe is at 90 the thickness of the substrate will make the temp on top of the substrate very and it will be lower.

If you thaw it in water you really have no need to pre-thaw in the fridge. She is explaining like many will thaw meat like a steak or chicken for cooking. You do it so the meat is ready for cooking and doesn't require you to thaw it all the way when you want to cook it. Saves time. Feeders are so small though the water does a great job thawing them out.

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Yeah I think I will invest in a temp gun. :) I can use it on my rat pups too right? lol He was in his cool hide all day yesterday. I came to my room last night and noticed he was poking his head out of his hot hide. Woke up and he is still there right now. Sleeping of course. I think he literally just discovered it. Which makes me happy! :D

I guess I should just stick to thawing in water then. If I use a temp gun on my rat pup, what is the recommended temperature to have it at?

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Originally Posted by AdamF

Agreed. The hunger/hunt instinct does not increase with prolonged zombie dance. If mine don't hit in 90 secs, they usually wont eat (rare) or want me to leave them alone and get out of the room. I dont have issue leaving feeder over night, but for some reason I do have issue thawing and re freezing.

i have read, in the wild, a BP will eat dead prey it comes upon.

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Should I just zombie dance for around a minute or two? After that just leave it alone in with him and wait for an hour and see if he eats it? Do you recommend leaving the feeder in his enclosure overnight in my situation?

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Originally Posted by Punkymom

I will not refreeze a rat if I leave it overnight.

As for thawing in warm water, I find that pups take - oh I dunno - an hour? Maybe a little longer? Small rats take a couple of hours. Basically this is what I do: Take rats and place in plastic bag (at this point they're still frozen solid), submerge in bowl of hot water and set timer for 30 min. Come back and check rats. They're never done at this point so I feel the water. Usually it's cooled down considerably so I replace it with fresh hot water and reset the timer for 30 min. Repeat until all rats are thawed. I do the Head Press and the Belly Squish (careful now, those are copyrighted terms!!!) to check for remaining ice. If I feel none then I do a final water change and leave them to warm up for 15-20 min longer. Now they should be nice a warm like a furry burrito from Taco Rat.

As for thawing in the fridge, it all depends on how long you're willing to wait for them to thaw. I usually put them in the fridge before I go to bed for the next evening. By then they're mostly thawed (pups are all the way thawed) and take between 30-40 min to warm up depending on how thawed they are and the current room temp. It takes longer in the winter. I have put them in the fridge in the morning, too. I've also just left them out on the counter for a few hours. It all depends on my schedule and what I'm going to have time for. If it's a church night they'll have been put in the fridge the night before because I don't feel like staying up until midnight feeding snakes.

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Thanks! I'll try thawing in hot water next time. :) So I can refreeze the rat as long as it wasn't thawed overnight?

Yes! :)

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Originally Posted by blaze

Thanks! I'll try thawing in hot water next time. :) So I can refreeze the rat as long as it wasn't thawed overnight?

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I simply thaw mine in VERY hot tap water. Pups are "done" in 3-5 mins, medium rats are done 10-15 mins.

Frist, Welcome to BP.net!

I tried to read most of the thread, but may have missed a post or two so forgive me if I repeat anything.

A couple of things that may help:
--> Boost your ambient air temperatures - I find a warmer overall temperature will sometimes help problem feeders over an extended period of time.
--> Feed at night with all the lights off! You can use a red bulb to navigate if needed.
--> Black out the sides of your enclosure to add maximum security to your snake.
--> As much as I don't promote feeding containers sometimes it is needed. Use a shoe box, something that NO LIGHT can enter. Leave the rat inside to scent it up nice before feeding. I have found with severe problem feeders scenting a shoe box and then wiggling the rat around with the lid closed can work quite nice.
--> Last, feed live. I got away from F/T some time ago and only feed live.

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Originally Posted by blaze

Should I just zombie dance for around a minute or two? After that just leave it alone in with him and wait for an hour and see if he eats it? Do you recommend leaving the feeder in his enclosure overnight in my situation?

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Zombie Dance that little guy for a few minutes and continue to do so if your snake is showing interest. If feeding is unsuccessful leave the F/T rat in the tub and overnight if needed. In the past I have left F/T rats in the entrance to a hide overnight and the rats were eaten at some point through out the night.

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Originally Posted by blaze

Thanks! I'll try thawing in hot water next time. :) So I can refreeze the rat as long as it wasn't thawed overnight?

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Personally, I do not suggest refreezing. I look at it the same way I do my food. If I were to take out raw Pork Chops and decide not to cook them they would never go back in the freezer. ;)

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Originally Posted by el8ch

Frist, Welcome to BP.net!

I tried to read most of the thread, but may have missed a post or two so forgive me if I repeat anything.

A couple of things that may help:
--> Boost your ambient air temperatures - I find a warmer overall temperature will sometimes help problem feeders over an extended period of time.
--> Feed at night with all the lights off! You can use a red bulb to navigate if needed.
--> Black out the sides of your enclosure to add maximum security to your snake.
--> As much as I don't promote feeding containers sometimes it is needed. Use a shoe box, something that NO LIGHT can enter. Leave the rat inside to scent it up nice before feeding. I have found with severe problem feeders scenting a shoe box and then wiggling the rat around with the lid closed can work quite nice.
--> Last, feed live. I got away from F/T some time ago and only feed live.



Zombie Dance that little guy for a few minutes and continue to do so if your snake is showing interest. If feeding is unsuccessful leave the F/T rat in the tub and overnight if needed. In the past I have left F/T rats in the entrance to a hide overnight and the rats were eaten at some point through out the night.



Personally, I do not suggest refreezing. I look at it the same way I do my food. If I were to take out raw Pork Chops and decide not to cook them they would never go back in the freezer. ;)

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Does it have to be pitch black in the room? Can I use moonlight as light from my window instead?
Just blacked out the sides with construction paper. :)
I will definitely try leaving the rat overnight. :D
Should I use a shoebox as a last resort if feeding doesn't go so well in the enclosure? If I do how long do I leave the rat in the box to pre-scent?
lol Feeding live is not an option for me right now.

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Originally Posted by blaze

Does it have to be pitch black in the room? Can I use moonlight as light from my window instead?
Just blacked out the sides with construction paper. :)
I will definitely try leaving the rat overnight. :D
Should I use a shoebox as a last resort if feeding doesn't go so well in the enclosure? If I do how long do I leave the rat in the box to pre-scent?
lol Feeding live is not an option for me right now.

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You don't need it "pitch black", use your moon light so you can see. All you are trying to accomplish is the simulation of night feeding and the feeling of added security to your Ball Python.

Try feeding in the enclosure a few more times and then try the shoebox method. After you thaw your prey item I'd probably leave it in for 15 or 20 minutes then reheat your prey item in some warm water and finally a blow dryer.

If you are still not having any luck try switching your prey items around. Ie, Sizes of prey, Rats/Mice etc

Hang tight and be patient. Keep us updated and hopefully you get a feeding response soon.

***UPDATE***
Well I tried feeding again last night. I chose the smallest frozen rat pup that I bought just in case. I thawed the rat pup in a ziploc bag under hot/warm water from the tap. It thawed pretty good. But it was also not warm anymore. So I heated it up by replacing the water again. It was nice and warm after a couple minutes. I then started to zombie dance for a bit. This time for no more than 3-4 minutes. Basically the same thing as last time happened again. I then left it in alone for almost an hour. He still hadn't touched it. So I warmed the rat pup again with a blow dryer. I then decided to leave the rat pup in the enclosure overnight. Turns out he didn't eat it. But It looks like he moved it around because the rat pup was a bit further than where I placed it originally. I even tried increasing my ambient temperature earlier before feeding. :(

Maybe I'll try feeding him in a shoebox or separate container next time. My only concern about that is how long do I have to wait after, if he does eat, to pick him up to put him back in his enclosure?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blaze

***UPDATE***
Well I tried feeding again last night. I chose the smallest frozen rat pup that I bought just in case. I thawed the rat pup in a ziploc bag under hot/warm water from the tap. It thawed pretty good. But it was also not warm anymore. So I heated it up by replacing the water again. It was nice and warm after a couple minutes. I then started to zombie dance for a bit. This time for no more than 3-4 minutes. Basically the same thing as last time happened again. I then left it in alone for almost an hour. He still hadn't touched it. So I warmed the rat pup again with a blow dryer. I then decided to leave the rat pup in the enclosure overnight. Turns out he didn't eat it. But It looks like he moved it around because the rat pup was a bit further than where I placed it originally. I even tried increasing my ambient temperature earlier before feeding. :(

Maybe I'll try feeding him in a shoebox or separate container next time. My only concern about that is how long do I have to wait after, if he does eat, to pick him up to put him back in his enclosure?

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I've had my spider since May 27th and yesterday was the first time he ate for me since I got him. He would strike, miss it and then get scared and hide. Yesterday I got frusterated and left the f/t small rat in his enclosure and went out with my family for 6 hours. When I got home, I noticed the rat wasn't there and I peeked under his hide.. he was juuuust starting to eat it, only the head was in his mouth. So, don't freak out just yet! It took my boy almost 6 hours to go check out the nice smelly rat near his house, just leave it in there and eventually the tantalizing aroma of dead rat will overpower him!

I'm not sure why nobody has said this, but stop trying to feed it so often.

Leave it alone for a whole week. Don't look at it, poke at it, slide anything around, nothing except cleaning the water bowl.

Then try again.

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Originally Posted by liv

I've had my spider since May 27th and yesterday was the first time he ate for me since I got him. He would strike, miss it and then get scared and hide. Yesterday I got frusterated and left the f/t small rat in his enclosure and went out with my family for 6 hours. When I got home, I noticed the rat wasn't there and I peeked under his hide.. he was juuuust starting to eat it, only the head was in his mouth. So, don't freak out just yet! It took my boy almost 6 hours to go check out the nice smelly rat near his house, just leave it in there and eventually the tantalizing aroma of dead rat will overpower him!

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I'll keep trying. Thanks! :)

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Originally Posted by MrLang

I'm not sure why nobody has said this, but stop trying to feed it so often.

Leave it alone for a whole week. Don't look at it, poke at it, slide anything around, nothing except cleaning the water bowl.

Then try again.

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The thing is that I did just that this week. I left him alone all week. Only change his water bowl every other day or so and that's it. It's been 3 weeks now since his last meal. Last attempt at feeding was last Monday.

Also is it a bad idea to fully clean his enclosure today? It's been about 2-3 days after a month. I feel like I should clean everything and change substrate to fresh new one. Sorry if it's off topic. I'm just not sure if it might affect him when I try feeding again next week.

Sorry, I think I missed that you waited. I just saw the post started on 6/26 and here we are 6 days later and it sounded like you had tried to feed several times in that period. As long as the snake's body condition isn't deteriorating, I think most people would advise you to wait at least 4 or 5 days between these attempts.

If you've done things like try to leave a frozen rodent in there for a while, I would probably go ahead and clean the cage. If there's no change in scent from idle to feeding time, the snake is probably less likely to start to have a feeding response stimulated.

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It's been 3 weeks now since his last meal.

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I know it might seem a long time, but it really isn't. I have a female who hasn't eaten since last November - imagine how frustrating that is!

If he isn't eating it's likely that he simply isn't hungry. Wait a week at least before attempts, don't chase him around the tub with a zombie rat. As long as your husbandry is up to scratch, it's just a waiting game ;)

Best of luck :gj:

Sorry I haven't been replying much. Had a very busy week. :(

***UPDATE***

So tonight went somewhat much better than before. I know he is hungry now because I heated a rat really good this time with really hot water. As soon as I dangled it in front of him he struck at it. The sad part is that he hit it sort of like a punching bag and it swayed and hit him right back. Maybe I shouldn't hold the rat by the tail with the tongs... lol
Now he is sticking his head out of his hide staring at the rat I left right in front of him. Tried zombie dancing for a minute before leaving it. Hopefully he eats it tonight. I'm gonna leave it in for another 30 minutes and refreeze it. Or should I try leaving it overnight?

I decided to refreeze the rat pup. Hopefully things will go better next Sunday night. :) I think I'll try holding the rat again by the neck next time. lol

Silly snake. What I have done in the past is once you have your snakes attention. Put the feeder on a flat open spot in the cage where it will have room to strike. Then i would just poke and wiggle the feeder while it's laying on cage floor, from the side opposite of the snakes approach. That way it can strike and it won't suddenly fall or swing back and hit him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blaze

Sorry I haven't been replying much. Had a very busy week. :(

***UPDATE***

The sad part is that he hit it sort of like a punching bag and it swayed and hit him right back. Maybe I shouldn't hold the rat by the tail with the tongs... lol

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LOL!! Sorry for your snake's misfortune, but you might have just saved me the next big flub when I offer F/T again....so thanks!

Good luck to you. I'm trying to get mine to take F/T for the first time, and kept accidentally smacking the side of the tub with the hair dryer. I'm sure that really calmed her down and made her feel safe around the scary frozen rat pup! :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

Silly snake. What I have done in the past is once you have your snakes attention. Put the feeder on a flat open spot in the cage where it will have room to strike. Then i would just poke and wiggle the feeder while it's laying on cage floor, from the side opposite of the snakes approach. That way it can strike and it won't suddenly fall or swing back and hit him.

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Thanks! I'll try this.

- - - Updated - - -

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Originally Posted by Fidget

LOL!! Sorry for your snake's misfortune, but you might have just saved me the next big flub when I offer F/T again....so thanks!

Good luck to you. I'm trying to get mine to take F/T for the first time, and kept accidentally smacking the side of the tub with the hair dryer. I'm sure that really calmed her down and made her feel safe around the scary frozen rat pup! :rolleyes:

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lol Thanks! Good luck to you too!