Warning to new owners.

My friend bought a ball not knowing a whole lot about them, on the day he bought the ball he went out to a party on the night time (he had the snake in his room)
he was using deodorant an aerosol, spraying quite about over his arms, body etc... to later find the snake died.

i was thinking because of the toxicity of aerosols it could of killed the snake because they can easily kill humans..

i just wanted to share this story with all of you out there who are just getting ball pythons and noting knowing about the risks, my friend was quite sad about this because I didn't really think something like that would affect the snake quite clearly it did so i just wanted to share this with you all.

Thanks a lot of reading this post.

Unless a necropsy was completed and it was determined that the use of aerosols is what killed the snake then please don't come on a forum like this and start making those kinds of claims. You have no way of knowing what happened without a necropsy and to speculate as to what happened and then post those speculations here will only spread misinformation, especially with all the new and inexperienced keepers that come here for advice. I have used axe body spray in my room countless times and my wife applies perfume in the room (snakes are kept in our bedroom) and our snakes, all of them, are incredibly healthy animals.

Either way, sorry about your buddy's loss.

My friend told me he had a necropsy, but i was very busy at the time not hearing all the information he was saying he defiently had the necropsy but i can vaguely remember something about chemicals, or airways in the snake were blocked with toxic chemicals something across those lines.

high levels of butane/parfum? im not sure i dont remember the conversation with him much about this when i next talk to him ill let you know.

Is this the same friend who allegedly lost several snakes due to the substrates he was using?

Please talk to your friend and get a copy of the necropsy. I will help you post it.

Without the results of the necropsy, your warning kinda rings hollow.

"Blocked with toxic chemicals" could really mean any number of things ... doesn't necessarily have to do with the aerosols even if that is what the post-mortem report said. Toxic chemicals could be cleaning fluids, something in the snake's water, food source etc.

I haven't been on the forum long enough to read the other post about your friend that Skiploder is referencing, but its a little disturbing that he has had several animals die to "chemical" issues in the recent past.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Is this the same friend who allegedly lost several snakes due to the substrates he was using?

Please talk to your friend and get a copy of the necropsy. I will help you post it.

Without the results of the necropsy, your warning kinda rings hollow.

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i have absoloutly no idea what your talking about with the substrate.

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i find this funny how i just thought id let people know about this happening, people can say im incorrect. no your incorrect, i was just suggesting this thats all and everyones moaning like im saying its a fact etc...
so funny i thought this was meant to be a helpful forum. if your going to post on my thread and complain dont bother posting on my thread go on to youtube or something like that ye thanks

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Originally Posted by SRMD94

i have absoloutly no idea what your talking about.

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i find this funny how i just thought id let people know about this happening, people can say im incorrect. no your incorrect, i was just suggesting this thats all and everyones moaning like im saying its a fact etc...
so funny i thought this was meant to be a helpful forum. if your going to post on my thread and complain dont bother posting on my thread go on to youtube or something like that ye thanks

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Personally I'm not trying to criticise you, I just want to know all the facts. If spraying my deodorant or perfume could potentially kill my snake, then I want to know about it. If it was something your friend used to clean his water bowl - a detergent, perhaps? Similarly, I want to know if it was that. I am new to this hobby and do not have the experience yet to distinguish wives' tales from fact and therefore, want to make sure all the information I'm archiving in the far corners of my brain is true.

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Originally Posted by Bellatrix_LeSnake

Personally I'm not trying to criticise you, I just want to know all the facts. If spraying my deodorant or perfume could potentially kill my snake, then I want to know about it. If it was something your friend used to clean his water bowl - a detergent, perhaps? Similarly, I want to know if it was that. I am new to this hobby and do not have the experience yet to distinguish wives' tales from fact and therefore, want to make sure all the information I'm archiving in the far corners of my brain is true.

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As i said my friend was a new ball python owner, he got everything knew he didn't clean anything he received the snake putting everything in the enclosure the snake was a healthy BP, captive bred...

what's quite annoying is that i would just throw out the warning sign on this.
if some one was to say to me; i was in my room, which is quite a small space... and i sprayed around 20 seconds of deodorant which over 5 seconds i believe can be harmful to a human im going to think ye thats harmful to any animal.. also
the report like i said we had a brief conversation i don't remember much.

You should always wash everything you put in with a pet. You never know what might have gotten on it at the store or in transit. New doesn't mean clean!

everything he had was sealed, but he was a new pet owner.. but i dont think butane and parfum come from anything being in the water.

I too, would like to see a copy of the necropsy.

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To the OP:
The fact of the matter is that without any evidence to back up your claim and without actually knowing what killed the snake anyway, you are simply spreading husbandry advice that is not sound as it is not based in fact but based on assumptions. I believe that is what got the people posting in protest to post in the first place.

Second, and I hate to say it but its true, if you used proper punctuation and grammer then you would come across as being more educated and maybe people would take you more seriously. That is not me criticizing, it is me trying to offer some help to you on your future posts.

quite hard for me to use correct grammar i am on my iPhone which is horrible for typing on :)

well i wasn't tying to make assumptions or give bad advice, just something a friend told me i apologize?
to whom this has affected.

I don't think that an apology is necessary and I feel that you were trying to do the right thing. In an industry like there where bad advice runs rampant (i.e. ignorant pet store employees, someone saying "hey my friend had snakes. they need blah blah blah, etc.) people are naturally skepitcal about things and want to see evidence to back it up. Thanks for your concern, and the necropsy would be great so that others can see exactly what caused the death and make sure not to recreate the circumstances that killed this snake in their snakes enclosures.

I think some folks need to take a small step back and not be so offended at an attempt to warn about a potential danger. Let's face it, aerosols can be NASTY and if you use one excessively around a snake, it could, potentially, cause some serious problems. Can we say definitively that it killed this particular snake? Of course not. But that doesn't mean the warning is invalid. Take it or leave it...but there's no reason to crucify someone who is just posting an anecdote that might help someone think before fumigating a small space with deodorant or hair spray or air freshener or whatever. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by SRMD94

the report like i said we had a brief conversation i don't remember much.

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If you don't remember much you shouldn't have come in here and "warned" us. Wai tuntil you have al the informatiom before potentially scaring new BP owners.

I guess my next question is, how much was he spraying? You said 20 seconds. That is a LOT of deodorant! How small is the room? Was it ventilated? I agree with JLC that is is good on you for trying to get a warning out, but I also agree with the others that you need your ducks in a row before presenting such material.

BTW, typing on the iPhone is zero excuse for bad punctuation or grammar. I do it all of the time, and it is indistinguishable from when I am on my laptop.

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Originally Posted by SRMD94

i have absoloutly no idea what your talking about with the substrate.

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Allow me to jog your memory:

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Originally Posted by SRMD94

my friend had 3 balls use pine shivings all 3 balls died. he used aspen the ball didnt die.

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Originally Posted by SRMD94

i thought this was meant to be a helpful forum.

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This has always been, and will continue to be a helpful forum, however, misinformation, disinformation, and ill formed theories based on rumor are rarely helpful.

Off topic: but, when you say aerosols, was it like an air freshener or a real deo for his beo? & Along with a few others, unlike saying "Pics or didn't happen", I'm saying "Necropsy or it didn't happen".

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Originally Posted by JLC

I think some folks need to take a small step back and not be so offended at an attempt to warn about a potential danger. Let's face it, aerosols can be NASTY and if you use one excessively around a snake, it could, potentially, cause some serious problems. Can we say definitively that it killed this particular snake? Of course not. But that doesn't mean the warning is invalid. Take it or leave it...but there's no reason to crucify someone who is just posting an anecdote that might help someone think before fumigating a small space with deodorant or hair spray or air freshener or whatever. :rolleyes:

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We now have a new owner who is giving us vague warnings about a couple of things - first three deaths (from a "friend") due to pine shavings now another death (again from a "friend") due to butane and "parfum" from deodorant complete with a necropsy confirming butane and "parfum" as the culprits.

I'll be upfront and baldly state that the pine shavings claim is utter and complete bull crap.

I will also be upfront and state that I would never argue that spraying the heck out of your snake with an aerosol is probably not a good idea. But, I find inconsistency with these statements:

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Originally Posted by SRMD94

i was thinking because of the toxicity of aerosols it could of killed the snake because they can easily kill humans..

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........in which the cause of death was potentially due to aerosols and 22 minutes later in which the OP stated:

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Originally Posted by SRMD94

My friend told me he had a necropsy, but i was very busy at the time not hearing all the information he was saying he defiently had the necropsy but i can vaguely remember something about chemicals, or airways in the snake were blocked with toxic chemicals something across those lines.

high levels of butane/parfum? im not sure i dont remember the conversation with him much about this when i next talk to him ill let you know.

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...in which all of a sudden the death was confirmed by a necropsy, complete with airways blocked with toxic chemicals.

Sorry Judy, I'm all for sharing important information and I don't doubt that heavily dousing aerosols could kill a snake, but in this case, something smells funny.

Since the friend had a necropsy, I will be more than glad to assist the OP with posting the results here.

Having just returned from a long trip, I can't speak to any history about the OP. All I know is I found a PM about this from the OP and I was the one who suggested that maybe they should start a thread about it if they were that concerned. And the moment that person does so, the very first response they get is "Please don't bother posting anything unless you have absolute scientific proof of your words." Yeah, it rubbed me the wrong way, and still does.

I'm all for holding people accountable for their words. And I do get tired of the plethora of misinformation out there that gets spouted as "truth" for no other reason than because it's been repeated so many times. (The pine shavings being one of those examples, for sure.) So I can understand wishing the OP had maybe worded their anecdote a little differently...but slamming them for caring enough to post in the first place is...I think...getting a bit too snooty. None of us were born experts....either in the care of reptiles, or in how best to communicate on the Internet. And BP.net is not, never has been, and never will be "too good" for beginners to share their experiences and concerns.

I know not everyone is going to tip toe through tulips with the newbies. And I also appreciate the candid nature of our membership that is not afraid to speak their mind when they feel something is seriously amiss. But when I see what looks like a harmless caution get slammed immediately for no apparently good reason, and then others dog pile on (because that's human nature and it's more fun to pick on someone's faults than to pull back and realize there's nothing really to pick on) then I WILL step in and speak my mind about that and remind people that we're not "above" the beginner around here.

I'm not saying that everyone who participated was "dog piling" so if you really don't think that statement applies to you, then by all means, please assume I did not include you in that thought. Sometimes it's impossible to step into a situation like this and remind people to be nice without stepping on trusted toes that have also participated in the thread.

In the end, I'd MUCH rather have someone caution us against potentially dangerous activity than to come on and say, "I spray all sorts of crap around my snakes all day long and they're just fine...so it's obvious that there's never any danger in spraying anything around your snakes ever."

The OP posts a caution that certainly can't hurt anyone to consider. It's fine to question details and ask for more information....but it's NOT fine to tell someone they have no right to post their story simply because they didn't present it in a way everyone found scientifically sound and believable.

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Originally Posted by JLC

"Please don't bother posting anything unless you have absolute scientific proof of your words." Yeah, it rubbed me the wrong way, and still does.

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So I read this and felt that it was directed at me.

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Originally Posted by JLC

I'm not saying that everyone who participated was "dog piling" so if you really don't think that statement applies to you, then by all means, please assume I did not include you in that thought.

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Then I read this and decided that it wasn't.

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Originally Posted by JLC

In the end, I'd MUCH rather have someone caution us against potentially dangerous activity than to come on and say, "I spray all sorts of crap around my snakes all day long and they're just fine...so it's obvious that there's never any danger in spraying anything around your snakes ever."

...but it's NOT fine to tell someone they have no right to post their story simply because they didn't present it in a way everyone found scientifically sound and believable.

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Then I read this and felt pretty sure that it was directed at me.

1) Please tell me where I told the OP that they had no right to post their story?
2) You're twisting my words around to make your own point. I didn't say anything close to what you put in quotes in the third part of your post that I quoted. I merely gave my experience with the situation that the OP described, and instead of one snake I have had at times as many as 5 or 6 individual snakes in the room in question. He told what happened to a friend, I gave first hand experience.
3) In no way was what I wrote condescending or impolite, nor was anything that anyone else wrote, save for maybe the posts by KMG and heylookitsjon.

I'm not going to twist your words around to help make my point, I'll just quote what you said. Rather than all of us "take a small step back and not be so offended," I think it might help if you did. The OP was trying to help and I acknowledged that in a previous post, where others did not. I alluded to this in my posts but I think that Slim put it best so I will quote him here, and it is why I posted in the way that I did:

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Originally Posted by Slim

This has always been, and will continue to be a helpful forum, however, misinformation, disinformation, and ill formed theories based on rumor are rarely helpful.

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I would like to see the necropsy report just because i am curious. I have one of those air wick spray things(that goes off every 30 mins) just to keep my reptile room stinking the house up after my BD poops. I have not seen a problem in any of my animals and they have been in this condition for a few months now. I would i like to see if the aerosol is the cause of death for your friends BP. Please post a copy of the necropsy.
Tom

Well it could be quite possible that the aerosol did kill it.

I have and never will spray any thing in my bedroom or around any of my pets. Dogs and cats included. I though it was just common knowledge that you shouldn't use any kind of aerosol or spray of any kind near any pets or animals. But now a days it seems common knowledge is lacking everywhere in the world.

Unless he hangs out with Snookie and pals or is still in HS shouldn't be wearing that axe crap anyways. :p sucks about the snake. Doubt that was why it happened tho. Pet store probably went with that hypothesis to skirt blame.

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I've got a lot of respect for Judy, so I'm going to word this very carefully............

While I don't think her reply was aimed at me, I understand the point she was trying to make - and respect that true knowledge knows no experience level. In other words, a valid observation or tip is valid based on it's own merits - and not dependent on who dispenses it.

It is undoubtably solid advice to warn people not to spray heavy aerosols or use chemicals with VOCs around your snake. It is however disingenous to make a habit of concocting anecdotes around invisible "friends" to gain credibility.

My offer to the OP stands - I would love to see the necropsy. I am interested to see what test methods the pathologist used to determine that "the airways were blocked with toxic chemicals" and whether these were actual clogged nares or something else. I know that propellants are respiratory irritants, but I have never heard of one "blocking" anything............

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Originally Posted by gsarchie

1) Please tell me where I told the OP that they had no right to post their story?

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Here:

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Originally Posted by gsarchie

Unless a necropsy was completed and it was determined that the use of aerosols is what killed the snake then please don't come on a forum like this and start making those kinds of claims.

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Whether I misread your intent or not...that is how it sounded to me, and is what I took exception to. And my point for posting what I do (in addition to reminders to those inclined to be rude or harsh simply for the sake of being rude or harsh) is to try and make it clear to the OP and others who may also read and be offended/scared off by the harsh response that it is NOT always like that here and we try not to be.

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Originally Posted by gsarchie

2) You're twisting my words around to make your own point. I didn't say anything close to what you put in quotes in the third part of your post that I quoted. I merely gave my experience with the situation that the OP described, and instead of one snake I have had at times as many as 5 or 6 individual snakes in the room in question. He told what happened to a friend, I gave first hand experience.

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THIS I do apologize for and understand where you are coming from. My example at comparing what I see here and what I'd rather not see had nothing to do with your own experience...it was merely meant to compare/contrast the exact opposite sort of "warning" that someone might come here to give. But I can understand that the similarity of your story and my example might make you think I was pointing fingers at you and I was not. I should have been more careful and made an attempt to differentiate the two.

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Originally Posted by gsarchie

3) In no way was what I wrote condescending or impolite, nor was anything that anyone else wrote, save for maybe the posts by KMG and heylookitsjon.

I'm not going to twist your words around to help make my point, I'll just quote what you said. Rather than all of us "take a small step back and not be so offended," I think it might help if you did. The OP was trying to help and I acknowledged that in a previous post, where others did not. I alluded to this in my posts but I think that Slim put it best so I will quote him here, and it is why I posted in the way that I did:

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Then maybe KMG and heylookitsjon need to read what I wrote.

Everyone will take from it what they will. Some will care and some won't. Some will get offended and some won't. I can't change any of that...but I can, and will, always work to try and keep the overall atmosphere of BP.net a positive one.

I guess it is just my nature to always want something to be backed up with evidence given my schooling and work in biological fields. All studies are seeking to find results, or evidence, and the explanation part of a paper will be support by their findings. Can't blame me for that, right?

Glad that all misunderstandings are cleared up and that we can all move on with our lives. I just spent the last 10 minutes in the shower thinking to myself "Crap, I hope I don't get slapped with an infraction for speaking my mind!" LOL And then I put on my Axe spray on deodorant. And no, Otolith, I don't hang with Snookie (I can't stand Jersey shore) nor am I still in high school (not for the last 9 years). Is there a problem with wanting to smell good? :rolleyes: LOL

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Originally Posted by gsarchie

And no, Otolith, I don't hang with Snookie (I can't stand Jersey shore) nor am I still in high school (not for the last 9 years). Is there a problem with wanting to smell good? :rolleyes: LOL

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Hehe. I was just trying to be funny. :D I am guilty of letting calgon take me away and glitter body spray on occassion myself. My faves all come in glass bottles tho :p jp

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Originally Posted by gsarchie

Second, and I hate to say it but its true, if you used proper punctuation and grammer then you would come across as being more educated and maybe people would take you more seriously. That is not me criticizing, it is me trying to offer some help to you on your future posts.

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You just have to love it when the grammar police can't even write a proper sentence when they are criticizing the OP's grammar and punctuation, makes for a good laugh :rofl:

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gsarchie
In an industry like there where bad advice runs rampant (i.e. ignorant pet store employees, someone saying "hey my friend had snakes. they need blah blah blah, etc.)

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I'd like to see the necropsy also. I've always been against aerosols being used around the snakes, and find the claim slightly plausible, but some evidence of the claim would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Otolith

Hehe. I was just trying to be funny. :D I am guilty of letting calgon take me away and glitter body spray on occassion myself. My faves all come in glass bottles tho :p jp

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I have been accused of taking people too seriously in the past. Anyway, don't young women these days like a guy that smells nice? At least it's not Old Spice! My closest neighbor in our tent always puts that crap on. He's only 31 so I give him a pretty hard time about it. LOL

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

You just have to love it when the grammar police can't even write a proper sentence when they are criticizing the OP's grammar and punctuation, makes for a good laugh :rofl:

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I wasn't policing, I was sincerely trying to be helpful. In no way have I implied in any posts that I am free from making grammatical errors.

When I used to breed Lovebirds, aerosols became a 'banned' thing in our house. Given that their respiratory systems were so delicate, certain off-gasing was actually instantly toxic to them. Such as leaving a hot pot on the stove that had a Teflon coating. If the Teflon coating reached a certain heat point with no food or water contact (just a hot pot left unattended), the teflon would off-gas and any birds that inhaled that gas would drop dead within just a few moments. This never happened to us, but it happened numerous times across the country, enough to cause it to be widely known amongst bird owners.

Same went for certain chemicals and sprays.

Why do I bring up birds? Well, snakes also have delicate respiratory systems as well. I'm not sure if spraying an obscene amount of deoderant would cause instant death, but I can imagine that it would be something that you wouldn't want to use directly around your snake. I can't say one way or another that this is definitely true or definitely false. However, having seen how sick animals with delicate systems can get from seemingly 'common' household items, I'll say it's Plausible. But, it is also Plausible that the snake was exposed to chemcials prior to pick-up, or indirectly exposed to another sickness, or had a RI at the time of being exposed to a chemical and was unable to remain stable.

There are a massive amount of variables here.

I appreciate you coming around and mentioning something on the topic. It's not 100% one way or another, but some people might not know better. Myself, I don't use any chemicals around my animals and never have. If I need to clean their room with something more than safe cleaning ingredients, they get temporarily moved to another room.

Also: If your friend is spraying himself with 20+ seconds with deoderant, just how smelly is he? Maybe the snake died of a different kind of 'smell' :weirdface

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Originally Posted by gsarchie

I have been accused of taking people too seriously in the past. Anyway, don't young women these days like a guy that smells nice? At least it's not Old Spice! My closest neighbor in our tent always puts that crap on. He's only 31 so I give him a pretty hard time about it. LOL

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It's ok :D my sense of humor is dry and deadpan when speaking so via text it easily gets lost and comes off more snarkville. I like a guy in Armani code or Kenneth cole rxn or just scent of working on something around the house. Wd40 and dirt smells of a sexy honey do list haha.
Old spice is alright in an antiquated sort if way if only bc I like to imagine Bruce Campbell actually wears it. Sharing it with everyone in the a tent is a bit sadistic. Lol.


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I have never had an issue...

I suppose with small room with no ventilation and a lot of spray could do it. But if your friend is using this much deodorant he will probably be dying an early death as well....

But a necropsy report would be what I need to see to be swayed.

Thanks for the warning OP, I'd love to see the necropsy as well to further my understanding.

I would like to see the necropsy report too. It could be a number of things but if there really is a danger to using spray on deodorants around our snakes then that is something we should all know about. Books and guides could be written on that subject. Hopefully that is not the reason for the snake's death because I know I personally would feel terrible if I put Axe on one night and found out that was the reason my snake died. Hope it was not his fault and that it was something the snake had picked up before he got him. Thank you for the warning I believe you were trying to doing the right thing. Sorry about the loss.

OP, I'm wondering if you could ask your friend to make an account on here and post his story and the report. I would definitely like to confirm your hypothesis via necropsy, as I use body spray, albeit small amounts, daily.

idk about the rest of you but im curious as to where/how he got a necropsy for his snake. a vet?