Suddenly stupid

Is it just me, or have others had rats that suddenly forget how to eat and drink in the same tub they've been in forever? I'm holding a lethargic, super skinny rat right now trying to force formula in her mouth, and I'm so very frustrated. This is the second rat I've had do this with. The other got better and is now one of my bigger males, but I don't think this girl's going to make it. I don't know how I didn't notice, but her and her mate were usually snuggled together so I just checked food and water and left them. I suppose she could be sick, but externally she looks fine. I'm so frustrated. To top it off, one of my (now ex) breeders ate all 11 of her newborns last night.

I'm having a bad day :(

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Originally Posted by moonlightgdess

Is it just me, or have others had rats that suddenly forget how to eat and drink in the same tub they've been in forever?

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Probably just you...my guess would be that there is something wrong with the rat and that she did not forget how to eat and drink.

Thanks :) I should say, not literally forgot, but just stops doing it. I culled her, she was just limp and sick, the poor thing.

So do these rats just eat their babies on a whim or what? I have heard of this happening in many cases before but I dont understand why they do this. Is it just that they are out of food or is it because they are old and stuff I dont get it? Does anybody have an inkling about why they do that?

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Originally Posted by Andybill

So do these rats just eat their babies on a whim or what? I have heard of this happening in many cases before but I dont understand why they do this. Is it just that they are out of food or is it because they are old and stuff I dont get it? Does anybody have an inkling about why they do that?

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Many reasons a mom could eat her litter:
-her first time
-stressed
-not enough protein
-no water
-babies are sick
Etc

The only time I had rats go off feed is when they were sick to begin with, and fortunately for me, it was most always from old age. The one time it wasn't, it was because I didn't quarantine a new male, and while he himself appeared fine, he infected my female with some respiratory illness and she was dead in 4 days. He got fed to my snake (I was very pissed off, as she was a beloved pet as well) before he could die of his illness, although he had become symptomatic.

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So do these rats just eat their babies on a whim or what? I have heard of this happening in many cases before but I dont understand why they do this. Is it just that they are out of food or is it because they are old and stuff I dont get it? Does anybody have an inkling about why they do that?

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There are several reasons a rat will kill/eat her babies. Poor nutrition and stress are the two main ones. The stress thing can be tricky though, because sometimes they're be perfectly fine with certain conditions, then the next time it's not ok. Or it could be a fire truck went by as she was giving birth, and she freaked and killed all of them. Another reason is that sometimes, they're just nutty. Bad genes or something. I had a couple litter killers when I first started breeding, but I fed them off right away, and never had another issue.

She didn't "forget". She's sick. Either sick, old or super stressed.

Have you tried offering her some Ensure? Strawberry is supposed to be especially yummy to them. If she will take some Ensure(put it in the cage near her mouth, don't automatically try to forcefeed it to her)you can try soaking lab block in the Ensure to soften it and let her eat that too.

As others have said (and I'm just adding in to put more emphasis)... if your rats are eating their babies and they are not first time moms, it's time to diagnose the problem. A healthy rat with little stress and a healthy diet rarely eats her babies. Most of my girls have 10-15+ babies at a time, and rarely do I have a mom that harms them.

Considering the two mysteriously skinny rats and mom's eating their babies, I'd take a closer look at your husbandry. What temperatures are they during the day, night, or how drastic is the difference between the two (dropping from 80 degrees down to 50 at night can be just as stressful as prolonged heat or cold)? What bedding are you using? Food? What type of tubs/cages are they in? Have you checked their water bottles or valves to make sure they are getting enough water? Have their water bottles/buckets/tubing been cleaned recently?

They are at 68-70 all the time, in breeding tubs cleaned every 7-10 days (depending on my week). Their water bottles work and I put vitamin supplements in them. They eat mazuri block, and I used the granule bedding but switched to the carefresh. She was a first time mom, and the other rat passed despite trying to syringe feed it formula.

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Originally Posted by moonlightgdess

but switched to the carefresh.

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Not saying the bedding is the problem at all, but will say that it surely isn't helping. CareFresh is garbage, IMO.

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

Not saying the bedding is the problem at all, but will say that it surely isn't helping. CareFresh is garbage, IMO.

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I'd say I agree with this only sometimes. The quality greatly varies from bag to bag - some are extremely dusty, others are great. Many bags of aspen from different companies do the same thing. We are now using shredded newspaper and office paper. Seeing no dust, as we shred it ourselves, and so far love the stuff. About to go knocking on neighbors' doors asking for all their scrap paper.

I would however suggest using normal water, and giving supplements via food instead of vitamins in the water. The vitamin supplements sold for use in water tend to break down quickly, being useless, while promoting bacterial growth. It may also be that they taste funny enough that the rats refuse to drink because they don't recognize it as a safe source of water.

Without a necropsy, you may never know what's causing the occasional rat to start dropping off, but keep a close eye on them. If you get any more rats that are suddenly getting lethargic and skinny, I'd recommend a vet check and/or a necropsy if it can't be saved (keep in fridge and get to vet ASAP to send in for necropsy - do not put body in the freezer, and do not waste time getting the body to the vet).

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

Not saying the bedding is the problem at all, but will say that it surely isn't helping. CareFresh is garbage, IMO.

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what would you suggest to use instead?

I use Aspen.