Quick question, is getting a BEL really as simple as putting two Mojaves together?

I'm not exactly a genetic wiz, but just toying around with the WOBP Genetic wizard I cam across a pairing of two Mojaves that produced 25% chance of Super Mojaves, which they stated Blue Eyed lucys...

I mean, I understand the 25% odds are somewhat stacked against you, but for a BEL and the price of Mojaves...that would be a risk i'm willing to take...

So as the title states, is it that easy?

Yes Sir it is that easy. It's just like most other super forms like the Ivory and so on. You could also pair the Mojave with a Butter or a Lesser and have a 25% chance at an all white snake (Lesser Mojave and a Butter Mojave) :gj:

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Originally Posted by M&H

Yes Sir it is that easy. It's just like most other super forms like the Ivory and so on. You could also pair the Mojave with a Butter or a Lesser and have a 25% chance at an all white snake (Lesser Mojave and a Butter Mojave) :gj:

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Really? That may be have to be my first project. I was thinking of getting into albinos...but I may have to wait lol

I want one for myself!! I'd breed the Mojaves and if I got some, i'd keep it and sell the rest! Hahaha, anyway, thanks for the input!!

Well its just as hard as producing any other snake lol. Its whether you have the odds stacked in your favor or not that is what changes from clutch to clutch. If you breed a mojo to a mojo then every egg will have a 25% chance of being a super mojo or BEL. So now theres only one question to ask yourself. Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?

Or a lesser butter :)I and I believe it is still considered d a super form to some extent because these genetics are on the same allele so one of them should be passed on. Some one correc
t me please if I am wrong.

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Originally Posted by MarkyMcFly

Really? That may be have to be my first project. I was thinking of getting into albinos...but I may have to wait lol

I want one for myself!! I'd breed the Mojaves and if I got some, i'd keep it and sell the rest! Hahaha, anyway, thanks for the input!!

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Albinos are tricky because they are recessive. In order to get an albino Spider you would need two Spider het for albino or a Spider albino and a Spider het for albino. Although it's easier to make albinos! I have a side albino project that is small but I LOVE albinos :D

You are welcome, good luck with your project! Let us know what you decide to do. :gj:

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Originally Posted by ZBP

Or a lesser butter :)I and I believe it is still considered d a super form to some extent because these genetics are on the same allele so one of them should be passed on. Some one correc
t me please if I am wrong.

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From my understanding Lessers and Butters are the same allele just different lines. Like the Yellow Belly and Orange Bellys. They are can breed with each other to produce a visual morph. Not like the Axanthic where you have to breed the same line of Axanthic in order to have a visual morph.

I intend to do LesserxMojo to produce my very own BEL in a few years. I want to breed a female mojo to a Pin and a Lesser to shoot for BELs and Jigsaws. Maybe not in the same clutch, but still. I need to get my customs for my boas, my English Bulldog puppy, and a rack first. ;) I also need a bigger apartment...haha! I'm running out of room. But yes, it really is that easy. Of course, you better do a lot of praying to the Odds Gods... :rolleyes:

Lesser x butter x mojave = BEL Put any of those three together an you have a 25% chance in each egg to produce a BEL like everyone above me has already stated.

I'm doing male butter to female mojo in the next couple years to get my BEL. Good luck!

Since this whole thing was brought up, I was playing around and I noticed that the calulators show that breeding a BEL with a normal will only get you the original morphs of the BEL , such as all babies will be lesser and mojave, and no chances of producing more BEL's, why is this? I know that normally with a 2 gene to a normal you can still produce another 2 gene.

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Originally Posted by adamfritzsche

Since this whole thing was brought up, I was playing around and I noticed that the calulators show that breeding a BEL with a normal will only get you the original morphs of the BEL , such as all babies will be lesser and mojave, and no chances of producing more BEL's, why is this? I know that normally with a 2 gene to a normal you can still produce another 2 gene.

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you need two copys of the gene in order to produce the bel. so a bel x normal will not give you a bel bel x bel bel x mojo\lesser\butter will give you more bels

Mojave to Mojave does indeed produce a BEL, but be aware almost all Super Mojaves carry dark grey heads. Some people like this, many do not.

To avoid the grey head issue it is better to do a Mojave X Lesser or Mojave X Butter, or leave out the Mojave and do Lesser X Lesser or Butter X Butter, or Lesser X Butter. But there are actually a number of morphs that produce BEL's.

In addition to the ones above:

het Russo's produce the coveted White Wedding, believed by some to be the whitest BEL

Super Honey is another BEL

And if I remember correctly, the Super forms of Mystics and Phantoms are BEL.

Gale

No nothing is ever as easy as anything.

You can buy a pair of Mojave and have the female take years to get up to size because she is a slow grower/poor eater etc.

On ready they might not be interested in breeding.

They breed but the female lays slugs.

Healthy eggs can be laid and than die.

You hatch your eggs but you miss on the odds.

And yes genetically if everything goes as plan you have 25% chance per egg to hatch a BEL

So you need to weighs pros and cons, is time involved worth it or not to you knowing it might take another 2 to 3 years or more before you hatch your own BEL.

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Originally Posted by MarkyMcFly

So as the title states, is it that easy?

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We bred Lesser X Butter last year and got 6 eggs.
1.2 BEL 1.0 lesser 0.1 Butter 1.0 normal

It is that easy :gj:
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...y/100_1469.jpg

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Originally Posted by adamfritzsche

Since this whole thing was brought up, I was playing around and I noticed that the calulators show that breeding a BEL with a normal will only get you the original morphs of the BEL , such as all babies will be lesser and mojave, and no chances of producing more BEL's, why is this? I know that normally with a 2 gene to a normal you can still produce another 2 gene.

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Consider it this way. Any base morph (no combos or supers) when bred will donate one gene, either a normal gene or their morph gene. When it comes to combos or supers (like a BEL "super mojo") they can only pass any of the genes attributing to their morph. BELs (lets use a mojoxlesser for example) can pass either the mojo gene or the lesser gene, not both which is what is required for another BEL.

To my understanding you can breed a BEL to another mojo or butter or lesser and get the 25% odds again

And any super will produce no normals by way, even if paired to a normal

If im wrong on this please correct it :)

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Originally Posted by adamfritzsche

Since this whole thing was brought up, I was playing around and I noticed that the calulators show that breeding a BEL with a normal will only get you the original morphs of the BEL , such as all babies will be lesser and mojave, and no chances of producing more BEL's, why is this? I know that normally with a 2 gene to a normal you can still produce another 2 gene.

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It all has to with alleles.

In the case of BELs, since mojave, lesser, and butter are all believed to be carried on the same alleles, one BEL cannot pass both genes at the same time.

In the case of a bumblebee (spider pastel), the two genes are carried on different alleles, so a bumblebee can pass both genes on at the same time.

Hope that explains it a bit. ;)

And as someone already mentioned, yes mojave X mojave pairings lead to BELs with gray/silver heads. Using a butter or lesser with the mojave produces BELs without the gray/silver heads. I hope to breed for BELs next season myself--but since I wanted clean, white ones, I didn't even bother with the mojave gene. I'm planning to do butter X lesser.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

No nothing is ever as easy as anything.

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I fully agree with Deborah...snakes are not fruit flies.

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Originally Posted by WarriorPrincess90

I intend to do LesserxMojo to produce my very own BEL in a few years. I want to breed a female mojo to a Pin and a Lesser to shoot for BELs and Jigsaws. Maybe not in the same clutch, but still. I need to get my customs for my boas, my English Bulldog puppy, and a rack first. ;) I also need a bigger apartment...haha! I'm running out of room. But yes, it really is that easy. Of course, you better do a lot of praying to the Odds Gods... :rolleyes:

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I want an english bulldog puppy too! Theyre one of my favorite breeds, i love their faces. If you get one before me i wanna come over and play with it haha!

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Originally Posted by Deborah

No nothing is ever as easy as anything.

You can buy a pair of Mojave and have the female take years to get up to size because she is a slow grower/poor eater etc.

On ready they might not be interested in breeding.

They breed but the female lays slugs.

Healthy eggs can be laid and than die.

You hatch your eggs but you miss on the odds.

And yes genetically if everything goes as plan you have 25% chance per egg to hatch a BEL

So you need to weighs pros and cons, is time involved worth it or not to you knowing it might take another 2 to 3 years or more before you hatch your own BEL.

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But isn't this the game we all play? This goes no matter what your shooting for!

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

I want an english bulldog puppy too! Theyre one of my favorite breeds, i love their faces. If you get one before me i wanna come over and play with it haha!

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Lol! Deal. You will either have to come to Florida or wait until I bring him to Massachusetts with me though. I go to Mass every summer for a week, and once I get the pup he will come with me. It might be an easier drive for you though if you waited till I came to New England. :P

Ball python genetics are truly awesome, and fascinating.

Here's what's happening.
If you were to breed a spider to a pastel, you would probably get some bumblebees. A bumblebee, unsurprisingly, looks like a pastel spider. It doesn't look like a super pastel. When you breed it, it can pass on both the spider and pastel gene, so it can produce more bumblebees.

However, some morph genes are on the same allele. That means (roughly, this isn't completely accurate) that they are different mutations of the SAME gene. Since they're mutations of the same gene, when you breed, say, a lesser to a mojave, if the offspring inherit the lesser gene AND the mojave gene, the same super form is produced as if you bred two of the same morph together (or nearly the same--differences have to do with which of the two genes is more dominant in that situation, most likely, and how they interact--the potion is definitely different-looking).

Because they're different mutations of the SAME gene, the snake can only pass on one copy of that gene--it will be the mutant copy 1 (lesser), or the mutant copy 2 (mojave). So, all offspring from it WILL DEFINITELY have either the lesser gene, or the mojave gene, but cannot have both.

The BEL complex includes Lesser Platinum/Butter (believed by many to be line bred versions of the same morph, rather than separate morphs), Mojave, Russo (aka het White Diamond), Mystic, Phantom (Mystic and Phantom may also be variations of the same morph--not sure on that one), and Mocha. (I think that's all of them).
Any of these morph genes paired with any other of these morph genes will produce the BEL. Which two are involved will dictate what the offspring will be. In other words, if you have a lesser X lesser BEL, all offspring of it will carry the lesser gene. If you have a Russo X Mocha BEL, they will all be either Russos or Mochas.

The BEL complex contains MANY morphs, but new morphs are being found in other complexes (such as black-eyed leucistic), as well.

Allelic genes have made the morph game SO much more fun.
My favorite recent discovery is that Candy and Toffee are part of the Albino complex.

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Originally Posted by M&H

Albinos are tricky because they are recessive. In order to get an albino Spider you would need two Spider het for albino or a Spider albino and a Spider het for albino. Although it's easier to make albinos! I have a side albino project that is small but I LOVE albinos :D

You are welcome, good luck with your project! Let us know what you decide to do. :gj:

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when breeding for a spider albino, both male and female has to carry the albino gene, but only one of them needs the spider gene not both. spider isn't recessive.

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Originally Posted by don15681

when breeding for a spider albino, both male and female has to carry the albino gene, but only one of them needs the spider gene not both. spider isn't recessive.

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Yes you are right, just thinking off the top of my head the different combos that could result in one.

To simplify things a bit....

When looking at odds, think of Supers or anything that is in a "complex" (BEL, YB, etc...) as if they were recessive. Meaning, you need TWO genes to make it happen, just like a recessive. Therefore, Mojave = het BEL, Lesser = het BEL, Butter = het BEL etc... So, like a recessive, it cannot reproduce itself to a normal.

The nice part is you have a visual for the het since the genes are incomplete dominant.


As for odds, if you already have a BEL, and breed to another single gene in the complex your odds of hitting another BEL increase to 50% (not 25% as mentioned earlier in this thread)


Now let us clear up VISUALS of the BEL (All have Blue Eyes as afar as I know).

Mojo X Mojo gives a grey headed BEL.
Mojo X Lesser/Butter (the same morph IMO) gives an all white snake with the possibility of a faint yellow stripe.
Lesser/Butter X Lesser/Butter again gives a all white snake with the chance for bug eyes.
Super Russo gives white snake with white stripe
And so forth and so on with mixes of theses genes (add in Mocha as well)

NOW, the others in the complex...

Special X Mojo wil give a Crystal (Orangish yellow pattern)
Super Special is similar to the Crystal
Phantom/Mystic (another same mutation IMO) X Mojo will give a Passion/Potion - a PURPLE snake with a yellow stripe
Super Phantom/Mystic is similar to the Passion/Potion
Phantom/Mystic X Lesser gives another white snake (Karma Ball for the Phantom Lesser)

There are more combinations, but I think those illustrate the idea.

Anyway, what is so special about a BEL.....

My Lesser Mojo:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...GUN_ALPHA1.jpg

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Originally Posted by jinx667

To simplify things a bit....

When looking at odds, think of Supers or anything that is in a "complex" (BEL, YB, etc...) as if they were recessive. Meaning, you need TWO genes to make it happen, just like a recessive. Therefore, Mojave = het BEL, Lesser = het BEL, Butter = het BEL etc... So, like a recessive, it cannot reproduce itself to a normal.

The nice part is you have a visual for the het since the genes are incomplete dominant.


As for odds, if you already have a BEL, and breed to another single gene in the complex your odds of hitting another BEL increase to 50% (not 25% as mentioned earlier in this thread)


Now let us clear up VISUALS of the BEL (All have Blue Eyes as afar as I know).

Mojo X Mojo gives a grey headed BEL.
Mojo X Lesser/Butter (the same morph IMO) gives an all white snake with the possibility of a faint yellow stripe.
Lesser/Butter X Lesser/Butter again gives a all white snake with the chance for bug eyes.
Super Russo gives white snake with white stripe
And so forth and so on with mixes of theses genes (add in Mocha as well)

NOW, the others in the complex...

Special X Mojo wil give a Crystal (Orangish yellow pattern)
Super Special is similar to the Crystal
Phantom/Mystic (another same mutation IMO) X Mojo will give a Passion/Potion - a PURPLE snake with a yellow stripe
Super Phantom/Mystic is similar to the Passion/Potion
Phantom/Mystic X Lesser gives another white snake (Karma Ball for the Phantom Lesser)

There are more combinations, but I think those illustrate the idea.

Anyway, what is so special about a BEL.....

My Lesser Mojo:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...GUN_ALPHA1.jpg

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Great looking Lucy!!!

These are in my future plans. Pastave x Lesser

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Originally Posted by adamfritzsche

I know that normally with a 2 gene to a normal you can still produce another 2 gene.

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I'm going for a stab at simplifying this as well!

Some genes only need 1 copy to be 'visual' (Mojo, Lesser, Pastel)

Some of these that only need 1 gene look SUPER visual when there are 2 genes present (BEL)

Some genes need 2 copies to be 'visual' (Albino with 1 copy looks normal, 2 copies is visual)

Genes that need 2 copies to be 'visual' can't look any more awesome because there's only 2 parents

Now imagine the genes from each parent to be zippers that will copy themselves and re-zip to make the gene of the baby - only 1 half of the baby's zipper comes from each parent.

Mojo/Lesser parent only gives one half of its zipper - meaning only mojo or lesser as they are located at the same link of the zipper - a normal BP doesn't have the gene on the other half of the zipper to produce the SUPER visual form

Mojo/Pastel parent only gives one half of its zipper - since they aren't on the same link of the zipper it's possible for them to both be on the same half of the zipper at the same time - so even without the gene on the normal, one parent passed both visual properties


Was mine more or less complicated than the previous? Lol!

First it is the putting the mojave and mojave together.

Then its that awkward first date part.
Then its the long strolls on the beach.
Then its the Barry White music.
Then its the cooling down period.

and then whamo ...BEL lol

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

We bred Lesser X Butter last year and got 6 eggs.
1.2 BEL 1.0 lesser 0.1 Butter 1.0 normal

It is that easy :gj:
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...y/100_1469.jpg

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I would be interested in seeing the "lesser" vs "butter".

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Originally Posted by LotsaBalls

I would be interested in seeing the "lesser" vs "butter".

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As would I. I'm always curious as to how you would distinguish them in a clutch like this.

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Originally Posted by LotsaBalls

I would be interested in seeing the "lesser" vs "butter".

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errr, well I wish I would have kept the butter long enough to get those pics for you, we traded her right away for a Tegu Monitor.

I can tell you they were fairly close to how the sire and dam look, the lesser much darker than the butter, especially on the back.

The pair together...
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...r/PICT2694.jpg

The male Lesser
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...y/IMG_9532.jpg

The female Butter
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...y/IMG_8996.jpg

In my opinion...the lesser and the butter look quite different. I like Lessers better...unless it's a really high quality butter. ;)