How do I pick a baby Pastel that will retain it's color

Hello,
I am planning on getting a pet BP for my kids and I. We have a breeder we are working with and will be getting our new friend in August. I think we are going to get a male pastel. We have no intention of breeding this snake, so M or F doesn't matter. So, since males are less expensive, that is the way to go. We love the bright yellow color of the baby pastels. But we are concerned that it will "brown out".
So, how can I pick a baby pastel and be sure that it will retain it's yellow coloring as it grows up? Are there tell-tale signs that indicate an animal that will hold it's color? Are there specific parent combinations that will produce a Pastel that retains it's color?

Since it is only going to be a pet, I want to try to keep the cost down, so I don't want to go with one of the more expensive bright yellow morphs. I am hoping somebody has some good tips for me. I trust the breeder we are working with will help point me in the right direction, but I figured I would seek advice from you guys as well.

Thanks,
Chet

Although there isnt a sure fire way to tell that a pastel will hold its color you should look for a pastel that is clean and bright with good yellow color the more orange there is the more likely it will brown out more.

EDIT: Also look for blushing I say the more blushing the better!

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Originally Posted by Andybill

Although there isnt a sure fire way to tell that a pastel will hold its color you should look for a pastel that is clean and bright with good yellow color the more orange there is the more likely it will brown out more.

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x2

Baby ball pythons will look quite different as adults. Their color will change a bit.
It all depends on the quailty of the pastel. Like said above the more yellow and the brighter the better!

Thanks for the feedback. Is there a particular breeding combo that produces the best babies?

One of the best combos for yellows are fireflys, which are fire x pastels. But in terms of the pastels, ask to see the parents. Sometimes they can give you some indication that they will look good as adults.

Doesn't seem to be! Everyone was going on about NERD lemon pastels and Graziani pastels a few years ago, but I've seen plenty of disappointing adult specimens of each.

Buy the brightest, cleanest, yellowest yellow you can find. Avoid orange. If you want to be very sure, just spend the extra money to buy a bright adult. Or a super.

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Originally Posted by chet1028

Thanks for the feedback. Is there a particular breeding combo that produces the best babies?

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Yeah pastel X pastel for super pastels! lol j/k... I am not sure if there are any particular breedings to produce the nicest babies if you are looking for a sweet lookin pastel baby just be picky and patient and you will find the one for you! But they all will brown out to some degree (some more than others) as they get older but like stated earlier you should be pretty discriminate when choosing a ball python and I think it is particularly important for pastels...

Best answer IMO is to look for one at least 300g to see how it is coming along.

Citrus and Blonde seem to hold up well on average.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. That is the debate I'm having. Do I just buy the brightest baby pastel I can find and hope it stays bright or do I spend the extra cash and get a Super or a Bumblebee or something. I think I will just find the brightest one and hope for the best. We will love it regardless of it's final coloration and will probably add more to our "reptile room" as time goes by. It is fun watching the passion my kids have for their animals and being part of it. I'm not a big fan of snakes but I have really fallen in love with BP's as we've done research on them and spent time with them at local shows and Petstores.

Honestly I havnt seen very many SUPER impressive adult pastels.
my adult female I think is ok, not great but not the worst lol
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7039/6...e2f51527f5.jpg
Pastel Ball Python by zombiecupcake155, on Flickr

I mean she has some browning but in reality its just going to happen.

I guess if I wasnt using it for breeding and just a pet then I'd love the little guy just the same. brown or not:D

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Originally Posted by jinx667

Best answer IMO is to look for one at least 300g to see how it is coming along.

Citrus and Blonde seem to hold up well on average.

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Thanks Jinx. This is a really good idea. The kids really love the babies, so that it what we were thinking. But getting a more established snake that has started to display more of it's adult coloration might be a good plan.

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Originally Posted by chet1028

Thanks for the feedback everyone. That is the debate I'm having. Do I just buy the brightest baby pastel I can find and hope it stays bright or do I spend the extra cash and get a Super or a Bumblebee or something. I think I will just find the brightest one and hope for the best. We will love it regardless of it's final coloration and will probably add more to our "reptile room" as time goes by. It is fun watching the passion my kids have for their animals and being part of it. I'm not a big fan of snakes but I have really fallen in love with BP's as we've done research on them and spent time with them at local shows and Petstores.

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And kudos for you for letting your kids get into reptiles.
Most parents are not as understanding. Education is everything and its great to see new snake owners! They are amazing creatures and you could be starting a lifelong hobby for them and you :P
Bps are like chips I'm warning you!

A lot of Bees seem to brown out as well. If you really want it to keep bright, get a Super, and even then there is not a guarantee.

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Originally Posted by mues155

And kudos for you for letting your kids get into reptiles.
Most parents are not as understanding. Education is everything and its great to see new snake owners! They are amazing creatures and you could be starting a lifelong hobby for them and you :P
Bps are like chips I'm warning you!

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Thanks. We started last year with 1 Leopard Gecko and within a few months we were up to 4. The kids have always wants a snake, but my wife had refused and I was not a big fan. I've changed my stance and I'm sure my wife will over time. It is really fun because my kids (especially my 9yr old Son) have done so much work and research to learn about the Geckos and the BP's to make sure we are providing the best care for them. And it is really fun to share the hobby with their friends too.

Browning out is going to happen, what varies is how bad. First ask to look at the parents, this can give you an idea of what your snake MAY look like before. Doesn't necessarily mean it will, as I've seen ugly Pastels from beautiful parents.

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Originally Posted by chet1028

Thanks. We started last year with 1 Leopard Gecko and within a few months we were up to 4. The kids have always wants a snake, but my wife had refused and I was not a big fan. I've changed my stance and I'm sure my wife will over time. It is really fun because my kids (especially my 9yr old Son) have done so much work and research to learn about the Geckos and the BP's to make sure we are providing the best care for them. And it is really fun to share the hobby with their friends too.

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Thats so great! Teaches your son how to take responsibility to do research and maintain the health of a living creature. Truly a great thing to experience as a child growing up, and a great family hobby.
You will find nothing but support here! :gj:

Your not going to escape it. Browning out will happen. A bright baby will still brown out. Some brighter ones brown out even more because they were so bright as a baby and the difference from when they were juveniles to adults will be obvious.

When I got mine I tried to get one with no orange or brown. This is what I ended up with:

Hatchling

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...a/IMG_0002.jpg

About 650 grams

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...a/671fac01.jpg

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...a/324785d0.jpg

So far so good... I hope she continues to hold her color. I've got big plans for her (she is also 100% het clown)

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

When I got mine I tried to get one with no orange or brown. This is what I ended up with:

Hatchling

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...a/IMG_0002.jpg

About 650 grams

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...a/671fac01.jpg

She is awesome. She is exacly what I am looking for.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...a/324785d0.jpg

So far so good... I hope she continues to hold her color. I've got big plans for her (she is also 100% het clown)

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You want to pick one that has the most blushed out head that you can find, and the least amount of orange. Its head should not be confused with a normal's head.

Someone mentioned that there are lemons that look really bad, and there are - from those breeders who didn't selectively breed.

A well bred lemon pastel still will knock the socks off of you. I had someone offer me $1500 for my adult lemon pastel male when lemon males were going for $500 several years ago - because they thought he was a super. When they realized he was just a single gene pastel - they tried to buy him off of me.

At seven years old - he has browned out some, but below his browning line is still vibrant yellow and he still produces some of the nicest pastels (I do selectively breed). I just produced a clutch and sold a male out of it for $200 that has ZERO orange in him just a few days ago. Hatched on Sunday, spoken for on Tuesday once the interested buyer saw him and price agreed upon.

This was not a new person in the hobby either - this was someone who recognized quality and has seen the consistency of the quality of my male (he also owns two female lemons from last year).

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Originally Posted by mues155

Honestly I havnt seen very many SUPER impressive adult pastels.
my adult female I think is ok, not great but not the worst lol
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7039/6...e2f51527f5.jpg
Pastel Ball Python by zombiecupcake155, on Flickr

I mean she has some browning but in reality its just going to happen.

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That's a plenty nice adult pastel! Some of them, you almost can't tell they're not normals. That girl is pretty obvious. When I look at her, I think "YELLOW". That's not shabby at all.

http://img.tapatalk.com/aefcb830-b2db-5cf0.jpg

This is my girl she is just over 1600 grams and 2.5 years old. She is from a lemon pastel to an unknown line. Hope you find a snake that you fall in love with.

http://m1074.photobucket.com/albumvi...l?o=3&newest=1

This is my 2000 gram male pastel sorry pic is so bright took it in a hurry will take better one tomorrow. here is the link if it doesn't show http://m1074.photobucket.com/albumvi...l?o=3&newest=1

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Originally Posted by ChrisS

http://img.tapatalk.com/aefcb830-b2db-5cf0.jpg

This is my girl she is just over 1600 grams and 2.5 years old. She is from a lemon pastel to an unknown line. Hope you find a snake that you fall in love with.

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Oh man, she's gorgeous.

Here's my girl she's about 550 grams
Shes pretty brown but she's still sexy :) ha
http://img.tapatalk.com/a6937ba1-d0d9-173a.jpg


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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?vb4gtw

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

When I got mine I tried to get one with no orange or brown. This is what I ended up with:

Hatchling

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...a/IMG_0002.jpg

About 650 grams

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...a/671fac01.jpg

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...a/324785d0.jpg

So far so good... I hope she continues to hold her color. I've got big plans for her (she is also 100% het clown)

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My [recently wayfaring] boy at 4+.

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...pastelmale.jpg

And Kelly, taken a couple months ago.
She's over 800 grams now and gets brighter with every shed.
[hope she keeps doing that]..:)

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file.../kellynew3.jpg

And Boo, the new Super who will be 1 year old August 3.

http://file.walagata.com/w/the-salam...pastel-m60.jpg

[and I'm so happy to report that he's a little piggy just like Kelly]

:D

I love Pastels.

All the other posters are correct.
Avoid "orange" and don't let a seller try to impress you by remarking how 'how and orange this one is!".

[it happens]

here is my female pastel she has browned out a little but she still looks good im hoping she stays bright when she is big

In natural lighting
http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/...gv1990/006.jpg

with flash
http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/...gv1990/005.jpg

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Originally Posted by Salamander

My [recently wayfaring] boy at 4+.

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...pastelmale.jpg

And Kelly, taken a couple months ago.
She's over 800 grams now and gets brighter with every shed.
[hope she keeps doing that]..:)

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file.../kellynew3.jpg

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Wow shes awesome! I hope she keeps doing that too!

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Originally Posted by JaGv

here is my female pastel she has browned out a little but she still looks good im hoping she stays bright when she is big

In natural lighting
http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/...gv1990/006.jpg

with flash
http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/...gv1990/005.jpg

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She's quite lovely!
Wonderfully blushy!

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Originally Posted by Andybill

Wow shes awesome! I hope she keeps doing that too!

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I'm cautiously hopeful that she will.

Her grandfather was a wild caught Pastel and he kept his yellow until he died.

This is her daddy

http://www.walagata.com/w/the-salamander/dad.jpg

And 3 of her aunts

http://www.walagata.com/w/the-salamander/aunt1.jpg

http://www.walagata.com/w/the-salamander/aunt2.jpg

http://www.walagata.com/w/the-salamander/aunt3.jpg

They seem to be hanging onto their yellow, being older snakes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Salamander

She's quite lovely!
Wonderfully blushy!

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thanks i hope she stays like that. she is also the most nicest snake never hisses at me.

Wow. I love all of the pics you guys have been posting. You have some beautiful snakes. Looking at the pics has made me even more anxious to get our snake. Thanks for all of the feedback and keep posting the pictures, I really love the Pastels.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chet1028

Wow. I love all of the pics you guys have been posting. You have some beautiful snakes. Looking at the pics has made me even more anxious to get our snake. Thanks for all of the feedback and keep posting the pictures, I really love the Pastels.

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have you looked on kingsnake.com they have lots of pastels from different breeders

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Originally Posted by JaGv

have you looked on kingsnake.com they have lots of pastels from different breeders

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Yep. I've been looking there. I checked the BP.net classified. I've looked at every link to every breeder website on this page and the ones on kingsnake.com.
I've looked at hundreds of them. It still never gets old.
I have a breeder that I've bought geckos from in the past and I really like and trust him. Plus he is in my local area, so I can pick up the snake. This allows me to see it in person before buying and also saves me the cost of shipping. He has several clutches hatching, so I am pretty sure I will find a good looking pastel. If not, I've got a few other leads too.

Thanks for your feedback.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chet1028

Yep. I've been looking there. I checked the BP.net classified. I've looked at every link to every breeder website on this page and the ones on kingsnake.com.
I've looked at hundreds of them. It still never gets old.
I have a breeder that I've bought geckos from in the past and I really like and trust him. Plus he is in my local area, so I can pick up the snake. This allows me to see it in person before buying and also saves me the cost of shipping. He has several clutches hatching, so I am pretty sure I will find a good looking pastel. If not, I've got a few other leads too.

Thanks for your feedback.

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sounds good hope you find a beautiful pastel and join us in the addiction of ball pythons

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Originally Posted by JaGv

sounds good hope you find a beautiful pastel and join us in the addiction of ball pythons

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LOL. I'm sure I will. Heck even if I have to get a cute little Normal, we will have a BP in early August. We are in full fledged addictiion mode. My kids are beside themselves with excitement and I've been on this site almost constantly for weeks. I actually was just checking out an add for a "Buy One Get One Free enclosure". How can my wife say no to a second BP if the enclosure was free, right?

Awesome! What you pair the pastel with will also have a huge impact--choose light colored CLEAN animals to breed to your pastel, for better color in the hatchlings.

Pay attention to lineage there, as well. A token light animal from an otherwise dark line won't necessarily give good results.

Never accept 'just a normal' as an answer when you ask what a pastel's parent looked like--normals matter just as much as morphs. In fact, when shopping for a base morph, I would rather one of the parents were a normal--you can see a lot more of what's going to be in the genes when one parent is normal. Morph colors and characteristics can mask that, often. Good photos of the normal parent are important.

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Originally Posted by JaGv

thanks i hope she stays like that. she is also the most nicest snake never hisses at me.

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Awwwwwwww........:oops:

I may be imagining it but it seems that Pastels have the sweetest personalities.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chet1028

Thanks. We started last year with 1 Leopard Gecko and within a few months we were up to 4. The kids have always wants a snake, but my wife had refused and I was not a big fan. I've changed my stance and I'm sure my wife will over time. It is really fun because my kids (especially my 9yr old Son) have done so much work and research to learn about the Geckos and the BP's to make sure we are providing the best care for them. And it is really fun to share the hobby with their friends too.

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If you wife wants to talk to me, please feel free to send me a PM. I am the mom of a now 18 year old daughter. My little girl, at three, fell in love with tarantulas and I was terrified of all spiders. By the time she was five she convinced us to let her have her first pet tarantula and we still have "Fluffy" all these years later (along with quite a few others). Because I got over my fears my daughter grew up with a wonderful hobby experience. We homeschooled and her study of spiders became the focus of our curriculum. Between the ages of 8 and 10, she also did the "talk show circuit" and was able to spread the word about her hobby on National television, an experience which lead to her wanting acting lessons, which taught her poise, diction, etc. My daughter graduated at 16 and is in college on multiple scholarships. She grew up reading about spiders, studying them, and designing her own research projects. She'll be presenting the findings of an important research paper at a conference this summer. Because I was able to put my fears aside my daughter is growing into a beautiful, competent, and confident young scientist.

The point is, there is so much that your kids can learn by keeping and breeding reptiles. If you decide to breed your guy down the line, think of all of the genetic's lessons alone!

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Originally Posted by Really

If you wife wants to talk to me, please feel free to send me a PM. I am the mom of a now 18 year old daughter. My little girl, at three, fell in love with tarantulas and I was terrified of all spiders. By the time she was five she convinced us to let her have her first pet tarantula and we still have "Fluffy" all these years later (along with quite a few others). Because I got over my fears my daughter grew up with a wonderful hobby experience. We homeschooled and her study of spiders became the focus of our curriculum. Between the ages of 8 and 10, she also did the "talk show circuit" and was able to spread the word about her hobby on National television, an experience which lead to her wanting acting lessons, which taught her poise, diction, etc. My daughter graduated at 16 and is in college on multiple scholarships. She grew up reading about spiders, studying them, and designing her own research projects. She'll be presenting the findings of an important research paper at a conference this summer. Because I was able to put my fears aside my daughter is growing into a beautiful, competent, and confident young scientist.

The point is, there is so much that your kids can learn by keeping and breeding reptiles. If you decide to breed your guy down the line, think of all of the genetic's lessons alone!

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WOW. What a great story. Congrats to your daughter.

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Originally Posted by Really

If you wife wants to talk to me, please feel free to send me a PM. I am the mom of a now 18 year old daughter. My little girl, at three, fell in love with tarantulas and I was terrified of all spiders. By the time she was five she convinced us to let her have her first pet tarantula and we still have "Fluffy" all these years later (along with quite a few others). Because I got over my fears my daughter grew up with a wonderful hobby experience. We homeschooled and her study of spiders became the focus of our curriculum. Between the ages of 8 and 10, she also did the "talk show circuit" and was able to spread the word about her hobby on National television, an experience which lead to her wanting acting lessons, which taught her poise, diction, etc. My daughter graduated at 16 and is in college on multiple scholarships. She grew up reading about spiders, studying them, and designing her own research projects. She'll be presenting the findings of an important research paper at a conference this summer. Because I was able to put my fears aside my daughter is growing into a beautiful, competent, and confident young scientist.

The point is, there is so much that your kids can learn by keeping and breeding reptiles. If you decide to breed your guy down the line, think of all of the genetic's lessons alone!

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That's awesome. I get the newsletters from the Phoenix Tarantula rescue and I believe they featured a video link about your daughter at one time.

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Originally Posted by Coleslaw007

That's awesome. I get the newsletters from the Phoenix Tarantula rescue and I believe they featured a video link about your daughter at one time.

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They probably did. There are a lot of articles/stories floating around about her. I'm not trying to hijack your thread, but I think this might be genuinely helpful to her, especially if you explain to her that I was the most arachnophobic person on the planet. We tend to fear what we don't understand and what happened to me with spiders can happen to others with snakes.

Chet, show this video to your wife. My daughter was about 16 here. It might help your wife change her mind about more BPs if she sees what an educational benefit it can be:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4He2F68wCWA

and show her this link:
http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/Amazing-Animal-Updates/4