bugs or slow grower?

Now, i have been thinking my snake has been healthy but it has come across my attention that my snake is really small. Though he has grown alot since we got him in December(he was about 2 months old when we bought him) but he has only shed twice since then and i have heard that they shed like once a month. I feed him every 5-7 days with small rats. I saw a recent thread that a guy had a similar problem and said it could be bugs. I may be just paranoid, i just don't know. What do you guys think?


I'm not sure the gender, but i say 'He' anyway....

Does he put on weight or do you keep feeding him and he fails to put on weight?

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Does he put on weight or do you keep feeding him and he fails to put on weight?

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He has grown, but i feel he should be bigger for how much he eats. Like he is always hungry. so idk, maybe i should feed him every like 3-4 days?

You need to weigh him, keep track of his weight

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Originally Posted by SRMD94

You need to weigh him, keep track of his weight

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Alright, so how much averagely would a ball pythons weight be at 7-8 months?

It's too variable to give you a good answer with that. I bought a 10 month old snake that was 150g and a 3 month old snake that was over 300g.

A better question for you to ask is what a good feeding regimen is for a snake of X weight. We need to know what X weight is to give you a good answer.

What is the physical condition of the snake? When it bends, does the crease make 1 or 2 wrinkles or many? Is its body very firm all the way around or kind of flat and soft? Can we see pictures? I think they would help most, especially if you don't have a scale.

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Originally Posted by MrLang

It's too variable to give you a good answer with that. I bought a 10 month old snake that was 150g and a 3 month old snake that was over 300g.

A better question for you to ask is what a good feeding regimen is for a snake of X weight. We need to know what X weight is to give you a good answer.

What is the physical condition of the snake? When it bends, does the crease make 1 or 2 wrinkles or many? Is its body very firm all the way around or kind of flat and soft? Can we see pictures? I think they would help most, especially if you don't have a scale.

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Well, i dont have a scale..but i will be getting one soon. he makes like 2, 3 wrinkles when he bends. the body is firm

http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1339979797

http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1339979848

Well what size prey items are you feeding him? It could be that you are feeding him too small of meals. He could also just be a small guy or like you said a slow grower.

Oops I just checked again small rats... Typically I feed my ball pythons meals that are about 15% their weight in grams. Get a scale and track it.

Looks ok to me. He doesnt look bad, thats for sure. But he can just be growing at his own pace. He will get there.

He looks fine :) I have 2 snakes both fed 10-15% body weight on the same day with the only a couple refused meal from bothof them. One was hatched 9-12-11 the other 10-11-11 so just about the same age. My pied girl is a little over 800g and my Black Pewter male is about 450G so they do grow at different rates and size can vary he looks healthy. If you are worried about a parasite you can get a fecal exam done which I would recomend once a year anyway. But as for his weight he looks nice and healthy in the pic you shared :)

He might be a tiny bit on the thin side, but very little. He's just a smaller snake. His body seems well proportioned, so I doubt there is really a problem.

You mention he seems hungry all the time, can you elaborate on that ? Do you just see him out and about, or is he actively tracking movement and heat around his tub all the time ?

If he is actively tracking heat signatures, then he is actually hungry and you need to look into that. Once you get your scale, weigh him and then weigh his food. Ideally you want his food to be 10 - 15% of his weight. So if he weighs 500 grams, you want his food to be 50 grams or so. This rule changes once he hits about 1000 grams, I never feed a meal bigger than 100 grams except for the biggest of my females.

If he's eating the right size of food and he's eating every 5 days, I would consider a fecal check just to be sure.

Gale

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Originally Posted by angllady2

He might be a tiny bit on the thin side, but very little. He's just a smaller snake. His body seems well proportioned, so I doubt there is really a problem.

You mention he seems hungry all the time, can you elaborate on that ? Do you just see him out and about, or is he actively tracking movement and heat around his tub all the time ?

If he is actively tracking heat signatures, then he is actually hungry and you need to look into that. Once you get your scale, weigh him and then weigh his food. Ideally you want his food to be 10 - 15% of his weight. So if he weighs 500 grams, you want his food to be 50 grams or so. This rule changes once he hits about 1000 grams, I never feed a meal bigger than 100 grams except for the biggest of my females.

If he's eating the right size of food and he's eating every 5 days, I would consider a fecal check just to be sure.

Gale

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i just got a scale today, and it said he's 184g..is that good? and i mean, like he eats readily all the time...like hes never once rejected the food. i put him in a separate container and the second he's in there hes in ''food mode''. im pretty sure i could feed him 2 rats every meal and he would take it. would that help? but i dont want to overfeed him.

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Originally Posted by sandra

i just got a scale today, and it said he's 184g..is that good? and i mean, like he eats readily all the time...like hes never once rejected the food. i put him in a separate container and the second he's in there hes in ''food mode''. im pretty sure i could feed him 2 rats every meal and he would take it. would that help? but i dont want to overfeed him.

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If this is the case, then there is no way you are feeding small rats. Small rats range from ~50-80g.

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Originally Posted by Annarose15

If this is the case, then there is no way you are feeding small rats. Small rats range from ~50-80g.

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Lol you're right! I looked at the box, it said small mice..but it did say 45g each is that ok still?

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Originally Posted by sandra

Lol you're right! I looked at the box, it said small mice..but it did say 45g each is that ok still?

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That's 24% of his body weight, so it's still a little on the big side. I would only feed him every 7 days until he catches up a bit (percentage-wise). I'm only using my hatchlings as comparison, but 184g does seem a little small for an eight month old BP. My bumblebee was 700g at that age (on a 5-7 day schedule with rats). You might want to weigh the actual mice you are feeding him, to make sure the box is accurate. As others have said, he could just be a slow grower, but a fecal exam wouldn't be a bad idea. You should be able to take a sample in without having the pay for a physical exam (just the fecal exam). Also, I would switch him to rat pups (20-30g), if you want him on rats long-term.

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Originally Posted by Annarose15

That's 24% of his body weight, so it's still a little on the big side. I would only feed him every 7 days until he catches up a bit (percentage-wise). I'm only using my hatchlings as comparison, but 184g does seem a little small for an eight month old BP. My bumblebee was 700g at that age (on a 5-7 day schedule with rats). You might want to weigh the actual mice you are feeding him, to make sure the box is accurate. As others have said, he could just be a slow grower, but a fecal exam wouldn't be a bad idea. You should be able to take a sample in without having the pay for a physical exam (just the fecal exam). Also, I would switch him to rat pups (20-30g), if you want him on rats long-term.

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700g? wow, I'm even feeding him more than what he is supposed to eat and mine is 500g less than yours. How do i get a fecal exam? I really hope there isn't anything wrong with him :(

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Originally Posted by sandra

Lol you're right! I looked at the box, it said small mice..but it did say 45g each is that ok still?

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I have a box of 6 mice and the box says 45g on it. I weighed one and it was at about 10g. Are you sure it says each?

^

This. Chances are you are feeding the little guy waaay too small of food.

Gale

You should weigh the actual prey, most likely it is a lot smaller than you think. This happened to me except the opposite, the bag said 45 g small rat but it actually weighed closer to 70!

Here is an approximate size chart for you to use as an idea of what prey weighs what. I would try and get him on rats asap they seem to grow a little faster on rats In MY opnion :)

MICE

Sm. Pink 1-2 grams
Lg. Pink 2-4 grams
Peach Fuzz 4-6 grams
Fuzzies 5-8 grams
Hoppers 8-12 grams
Sm. Mice 11-16 grams
Med. Mice 15-24 grams
Lg. Mice 24-28 grams
XLg. Mice 30 grams+

Rats:
Rat Sm. Pink 3-8 grams
Rat Lg. Pink 5-12 grams
Rat Fuzzies 10-20 grams
Rat Pup 20-30 grams
Rat Wean 30-45 grams
Rat Sm. 40-80 grams
Rat Med. 80-150 grams
Rat Lg. 140-200 grams
Rat XLg. 190-250 grams

should i continue to use Artic mice/rats...or what frozen rats do you guys use?

Well, that depends on a lot of things. Arctic food items are not always the best quality, and they can be costly. However, ordering online from a larger dealer like Rodent Pro can be even worse by the time you add in shipping.

Some of us are fortunate enough to have local sources of frozen feeders available to us for very reasonable prices.

Some of us also have the option of buying from local shows and that is usually for a very good price.

Your best bet is to use the Arctic for now, while you investigate other options for high quality feeders at reasonable prices.

Gale

You can look on craigslist or even find your local Herp Society I am sure there is a local supplier of Frozen in your area I found several in mine when I started looking. The bigger mail order companies have better prices but shipping is expensive.

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Originally Posted by sandra

should i continue to use Artic mice/rats...or what frozen rats do you guys use?

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There is your problem right there. The prey items are NOT 45g each. That is 45g for ALL the mice in the box. You are underfeeding and that is why your ball is undersized. This is all too common and is usually just because the owner has been misled or misinformed on proper feeding. As has been said, Artic Mice is overpriced and mediocre quality. Craigslist might be worth checking into for a local breeder. Most online feeder sites like Rodent Pro, Big Cheese, Layne Labs, etc only offer in larger quantities, which wouldn't be appropriate for a single snake.

RestlessRobie nailed it. Get your snake on appropriate sized (10-15% body weight) rats now. I will also second what RestlessRobie said about rats being more nutritious and seeming to promote better growth. You said your snake weighs 184g, so you will want to feed it rats which are in the 18-28g range (give or take a gram or so). It may seem like a lot at first since you're used to feeding small meals.

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Originally Posted by AK907

There is your problem right there. The prey items are NOT 45g each. That is 45g for ALL the mice in the box. You are underfeeding and that is why your ball is undersized. This is all too common and is usually just because the owner has been misled or misinformed on proper feeding. As has been said, Artic Mice is overpriced and mediocre quality. Craigslist might be worth checking into for a local breeder. Most online feeder sites like Rodent Pro, Big Cheese, Layne Labs, etc only offer in larger quantities, which wouldn't be appropriate for a single snake.

RestlessRobie nailed it. Get your snake on appropriate sized (10-15% body weight) rats now. I will also second what RestlessRobie said about rats being more nutritious and seeming to promote better growth. You said your snake weighs 184g, so you will want to feed it rats which are in the 18-28g range (give or take a gram or so). It may seem like a lot at first since you're used to feeding small meals.

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x2 In the meantime, you can go ahead and feed him two of those Arctic mice per meal (until you find a supplier with the right sized rats).

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Originally Posted by Annarose15

x2 In the meantime, you can go ahead and feed him two of those Arctic mice per meal (until you find a supplier with the right sized rats).

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Absolutely! Waste not, want not. :gj:

I have snakes that are 1 year old that have passed up my 4 year old Ghost BP in weight. He is a pretty consistant eater but has always been on the small side - he is about 900 grams now and looks healthy but just small for his age compared to my other bps.

I guess no two are exactly alike in growth, personality!!!

In regards to the parasites - my thought is that if his poop is firm (not runny) then it is highly unlikely that he has internal parasites. But, to settle your mind - just take his next pooper into the vet for a fecal float to make sure - this usually runs about $40.

Good Luck.

Thank you soo much!! You guys are awesome! i'll get right on it :)

there is a local pet store that sells live feeder rats, they are like 3 dollars each. And now with the scale i can get the appropriate size of rats!

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Originally Posted by sandra

there is a local pet store that sells live feeder rats, they are like 3 dollars each. And now with the scale i can get the appropriate size of rats!

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:gj: Welcome to the nerdery with the rest of us.