First Deformity (Graphic)

Im posting this first for a little moral support and second to remind people that there is always the possibility that you'll have this happen to you.

I cut my pastel albino x ivory clutch yesterday and noticed that one of the babies had a kink in him. I was slightly disappointed, but still happy that the rest of the eggs looked good.

Today I checked on them today and the kinked baby had shifted and I knew that it was over. No upper lip, cyclops, and multiple other kinks. I pulled him, snapped a pic and euthanized him. All this took about 2 minutes, but it still killed me to watch him struggle. Still, the rest of the clutch seems fine so Im going to concentrate on them.

I am going to post the pic. I think its good for people to be able to see what can happen when you're in this hobby.

PIC BELOW - GRAPHIC

http://www.iherp.com/Gallery/88170/3...cnitKDoSYt.jpg

and I do feel that after that I should post a pic of why we still love this hobby, even with the risks.

http://www.iherp.com/Gallery/88170/1...jRXNyFAbyK.jpg

Good luck to you all with you're clutches! Hopefully I soaked up a lot of the bad luck.

Aww poor little thing. It is sad that things like this happen, we have an eyeless albino burm that hatched and one with a one large eye and one small one.

Thank you for sharing the photo.

Sorry for you're loss :(. It's no fun hearing or seeing these stories, but it's good to get humbled once in awhile. It show's it can happen to anyone regardless of all the precautions you can take. Great to see the rest made it tho!

I'm sorry for the little guy's loss. Still, that's amazing--I've never seen a cyclops ball python before. The condition is called holoprosencephaly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holoprosencephaly

Whenever you're breeding animals of any kind, there's always a chance for these types of things. Reproduction doesn't always go perfectly. I try to keep it in perspective--these things would happen in the wild as well as in our care, and we can end the little one's suffering quickly.

It's an example of the amazing complexity of a living thing--how many things have to go just right to produce a viable baby is astounding.

Sad part of our hobby :( sorry.

poor thing.. sorry for your loss. :(

Aww poor little thing. It is sad that things like this happen, we have an eyeless albino burm that hatched and one with a one large eye and one small one.

Thank you for sharing the photo. And congrats with the rest of the clutch!

Man that sucks...

For education's sake, what method do people typically use to euthanize hatchlings?

People use various methods of euthanasia. Personally, I believe that the most humane way is crushing the head and that is the method I used. Definitely not easy on the keeper (me) but it was instant.

Aww man . . . That is just too bad but awareness of this possibility is a must so thank you for sharing this with us. On the other hand nice looking little clutch you got there.

Sorry for your loss, noone wants this to happen but sure there are risks.

Good for you for photo documenting it. The hatchlings in your other photo sure look healthy and happy!

Good luck with the rest of your year!:gj:

**Update**

So I did end up preforming a quick autopsy. Everything looked normal on the inside besides the kinking. Actually the only interesting part was that the heart was still beating. Remember now that the head had been crushed and removed hours before, and the body stored in the fridge. I have to say, I was not expecting that.

You did the right thing by culling that animal. The rest of that clutch looks great :gj:

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Originally Posted by aalomon

**Update**

So I did end up preforming a quick autopsy. Everything looked normal on the inside besides the kinking. Actually the only interesting part was that the heart was still beating. Remember now that the head had been crushed and removed hours before, and the body stored in the fridge. I have to say, I was not expecting that.

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whoa, that's crazy :O

Thanks for sharing this sad story. We who keep animals whether as pets or breeders have a responsibility to them that extends to euthanizing them when necessary. I'm glad you did right by this hatchling, no matter how unpleasant it must have been to do so.

The rest of your babies are very lovely, congrats.

That poor baby. Thank you very much for sharing the photo. Always something to be learned, as sad as this lesson was. Kudos to you for having the strength to do right by the little guy. And congrats on the rest of the clutch! They are some very good looking babies. :gj:

I'm not all that surprised that the heart was still beating a few hours later though. From my understanding, the nerve impulses are still there in snakes for hours, which would explain the continued systemic function you saw I suppose. Very interesting though. I don't guess you took pictures of the autopsy? (I know that's an odd question, but being pre-vet I find myself highly intrigued.) If you did, I would love a PM if you feel like sharing.

So sad, sorry you had to go through that. :(

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

Ive had a few requests for pics/video so here is a link to a 10 second clip.

*Graphic*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfdG_qL1Cc8

Why does Ralph Davis freeze for euthanasia? Everyone says that it's inhumane. Anyone know why?

Cool video! Thank you for documenting it!

I feel bad for the little guy but when bad things like this happen i love to see people turn it into a positive. Congrats on the healthy babies too!

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Originally Posted by MorphMaster

Why does Ralph Davis freeze for euthanasia? Everyone says that it's inhumane. Anyone know why?

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Fill your bathtub with ice and get in it. See how long you can sit in it for. Thats what its like to freeze to death...

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Fill your bathtub with ice and get in it. See how long you can sit in it for. Thats what its like to freeze to death...

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I actually do that.....good for muscle recovery lol

The difference is you would eventually drift off and die in your sleep. Reptiles stay conscious and can literally feel their body freezing.

I just had my first deformity as well. From a fire to a normal, 10 eggs, 9 healthy babies one very kinked. I'll post pics as soon as it comes out of the egg, it looks fine and completely developed but kinked to all hell.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Fill your bathtub with ice and get in it. See how long you can sit in it for. Thats what its like to freeze to death...

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Right, but why does he still do that? Also how can anyone say the snake feels itself freezing? If you aren't the snake how do you know?

There have been studies done on this. If they are conscious do you think its safer to assume they cant feel anything? Why risk it?

By crushing the head there is no chance the animal is still able to feel pain. Why would you want to try something that risks them feeling pain?

Have you ever crushed your head?!!! I understand that I'd feel it, but you have to understand that if my head was crushed, my heart wouldn't be beating hours later. Who's to say that it still doesn't feel? I know it's a touchy subject, and I don't mean to sound insensitive. I just don't like the ignorance that's all. There is a very pronounced guy that freezes. So, for my first question, why does Ralph Davis freeze for euthanasia?

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Originally Posted by MorphMaster

Have you ever crushed your head?!!! I understand that I'd feel it, but you have to understand that if my head was crushed, my heart wouldn't be beating hours later. Who's to say that it still doesn't feel? I know it's a touchy subject, and I don't mean to sound insensitive. I just don't like the ignorance that's all. There is a very pronounced guy that freezes. So, for my first question, why does Ralph Davis freeze for euthanasia?

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If the brain matter is destroyed then there is nothing left in the body that can interpret those electrical signals as pain. It cannot still feel because the part of it that does interpret pain (the brain) has been destroyed. If your hand was cut off and someone hooked electrodes to your hand, you wouldnt feel your hand jerk because it is not connected to your brain.

As to why Ralph Davis still freezes, you would have to ask him. If you ask a herp veterinarian, you would get this:

"Unfortunately, the myth that freezing herps is a good way to put them down persists. It almost makes sense, being that reptiles and amphibians are “cold-blooded”, but in fact, this adaptation makes this procedure even worse for them. This is because as they get cold, they become torporous, that is, alert mentally but unable to move or respond. This is in contrast to mammals, which become unable to move, but also become mentally dull and comatose as they become hypothermic. As a result, reptiles and amphibians can feel their body get cold, which produces pain, but they can do nothing about it. Studies show that they can, literally, feel their cells freeze and rupture as they get further chilled, sensing pain as intensely as if they were being burned alive, but unable to move or respond."

http://www.pnwhs.org/Articles/Freezi...orm-euthanasia

Okay thank you. All I wanted was proof. Now I know and I appreciate the article. I am sorry for what you had to do, but I'm inquisitive I suppose. It's like how I don't get that dogs can't see colors. How do you truly know? It sounds like an anesthetic should be used to prevent pain though. Unless killed within a tenth of a second. Thanks for the info

Thats why I believe crushing is the best. It takes less than a second.

As for dogs being color blind, they are not 100% color blind. Cones in your eyes allow you to see color. The more cones, the better you see color. The area of a humans eye that has the most cones is 100%, a dogs highest concentration is 20%. By human standards, they are color blind.

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Originally Posted by MorphMaster

Okay thank you. All I wanted was proof. Now I know and I appreciate the article. I am sorry for what you had to do, but I'm inquisitive I suppose. It's like how I don't get that dogs can't see colors. How do you truly know? It sounds like an anesthetic should be used to prevent pain though. Unless killed within a tenth of a second. Thanks for the info

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Dogs can see colours just not in a full spectrum like we can.

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Originally Posted by Rob

I actually do that.....good for muscle recovery lol

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Thats different. Where do you get enough ice to fill up your bathtub...?

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Originally Posted by aalomon

The difference is you would eventually drift off and die in your sleep. Reptiles stay conscious and can literally feel their body freezing.

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To my knowledge this is what i thought to happen too. Not 100% positive though.

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Originally Posted by reptiliachnids

Dogs can see colours just not in a full spectrum like we can.

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Yea i heard they see like when its dusk or twilight out.

From what I recall, dogs see the color blue, primarily.

What do snakes see?

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Originally Posted by alittleFREE

What do snakes see?

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Not much I believe. They primarily use scent.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

From what I recall, dogs see the color blue, primarily.

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They also say that about deer. I'm not sure why though

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Yea i heard they see like when its dusk or twilight out.

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They can actually see blue and yellow at all times.

Bearded Dragons on the other hand believe it or not can see in the same colour spectrum as the human eye! So what we see they see!