Ride Or Die.

{New To Forum}

I Want To switch My BP from Frozen to live mice. I Was Wondering What Size To Get Him, He Is A Little Over A Foot Maybe A Foot And A Half. I've Seen A Lot Of Owners Put These Little Cute Mice Into There BP's Tank, I Was Kinda Looking For Those, Because I Want to Be Assured Nothing Will Eat Him.

- i Know A Few Of You May Think It Inhumane To Feed A Snake A LIve Mouse, But That Mouse Is Either Gonna Die In A Freezer Or My Snakes Mouth.:snake:

Why do you want to feed live.....? What's the reasoning?

WHats the meaning of the title? Is there like some sorta amusement park ride im missing?

I Got Him A New Tank And It has Enough Floor Space, But Its Also Really Tall, so To Feed Him Now I Would Have To Reach Into The cage where Before i Didnt, and Im just not comfortable with that.

Something smells funny here....

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It is much safer to feed frozen, live rodents are as likely to do harm to your snake as the snake is to the rodent. It can be very difficult to switch a BP to frozen so why mess that up?

Frozen rodents are not frozen alive, they are euthionized in a humane way.

You should feed the same size rodents frozen or live.

Is there a reason why you want to switch?

There is no reason to be afraid of reaching into the tank, this is part of owning a BP... What if the live rodent bites your snake? You will have to reach in and stop the rodent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

It is much safer to feed frozen, live rodents are as likely to do harm to your snake as the snake is to the rodent. It can be very difficult to switch a BP to frozen so why mess that up?

Frozen rodents are not frozen alive, they are euthionized in a humane way.

You should feed the same size rodents frozen or live.

Is there a reason why you want to switch?

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Yes Ive Heard Of How the Rodent can Harm The Snake , Thats Why I Was thinking Maybe multiple of the littler ones? and I Got Him a New Tank so I Would Have To Reach My Hand Inside To Feed Him, and Im not comfortable With That

http://www.petco.com/product/106226/...ing-Tongs.aspx

I just use giant tweezers to give my snake a frozen rat pup, i either dangle it by the tail or scruff of the neck. I assume your afraid to get bit? :P

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Originally Posted by BP_Pascal

Yes Ive Heard Of How the Rodent can Harm The Snake , Thats Why I Was thinking Maybe multiple of the littler ones? and I Got Him a New Tank so I Would Have To Reach My Hand Inside To Feed Him, and Im not comfortable With That

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Adult mice can still cause harm to your BP, and I can't imagine feeding multiple mice per feeding for an adult BP. I would leave him on F/T and get him on rats.

What was he in before you got the new tank where you were comfortable feeding F/T?

You can also get longer feeding tongs too for the F/T feeders.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mallowolf

http://www.petco.com/product/106226/...ing-Tongs.aspx

I just use giant tweezers to give my snake a frozen rat pup, i either dangle it by the tail or scruff of the neck. I assume your afraid to get bit? :P

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Yes I Am Afraid To Get Bit, I Have Those Tweezers But My BP isnt Very big so I Would Have To Reach My Arm Quite a ways In There.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BP_Pascal

Yes Ive Heard Of How the Rodent can Harm The Snake , Thats Why I Was thinking Maybe multiple of the littler ones? and I Got Him a New Tank so I Would Have To Reach My Hand Inside To Feed Him, and Im not comfortable With That

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Are you feeding by hand? that is a bad idea you need these:

http://www.reptilebasics.com/hemostat-18

Feeding multiple little ones will not work for long what happens when your BP gets bigger? are you going to feed 10 rodents at a time? The snake won't even consider those food. You need to feed an appropriately sized rodent.

Please read these threads. They are full of information that is necessary to owning a Ball Python:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ius)-Caresheet

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...04#post1845904

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BP_Pascal

Yes I Am Afraid To Get Bit, I Have Those Tweezers But My BP isnt Very big so I Would Have To Reach My Arm Quite a ways In There.

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How big is this tank?

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Originally Posted by BP_Pascal

Yes I Am Afraid To Get Bit

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Baby bp bites arn't bad at all, you'd hardly feel it if you did get bit. It's nothing to stress over, a paper cut is worse IMO :)

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Originally Posted by Daybreaker

Adult mice can still cause harm to your BP, and I can't imagine feeding multiple mice per feeding for an adult BP. I would leave him on F/T and get him on rats.

What was he in before you got the new tank where you were comfortable feeding F/T?

You can also get longer feeding tongs too for the F/T feeders.

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He Was In A 12x12x18 Exo Terra and now he is in a 27 gallon terrarium.

You can always just place the rat down in front of the snake, my boy will just eat it on his own. I really see no reason to switch over and risk harm to your snake if he is eating frozen thawed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BP_Pascal

He Was In A 12x12x18 Exo Terra and now he is in a 27 gallon terrarium.

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is that a 27 gallon tall or long?

I really don't see the issue here, just get a pair of 18" hemostats. There is no way a BP will be able to get you from that distance.

http://www.reptilebasics.com/hemostat-18

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mallowolf

You can always just place the rat down in front of the snake, my boy will just eat it on his own. I really see no reason to switch over and risk harm to your snake if he is eating frozen thawed.

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Lucky For You I Have To Hit My snake In The Face With It Or Else He'll try To Eat the Reflection Off the Glass.

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Originally Posted by BP_Pascal

Lucky For You I Have To Hit My snake In The Face With It Or Else He'll try To Eat the Reflection Off the Glass.

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Just try setting it down? If your snake is out looking for food he'll find it. I'm sure he'd eat it if he found it. Either way your gonna have to stick your hand in the cage, frozen thawed or not.

I Think That i May Just Get The Longer Tweezers as advised, But i have Another Question.
-At Night My BP makes this squeaky Noise,is it Normal or do I need To Take Him To a Vet?.

only at night? can you describe it more?

How about your set up We already know that it is a 27 gallon tank... what are you using to heat the tank, what are you using to measure temperatures? What are the current temperatures/humidity?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BP_Pascal

{New To Forum}

I Want To switch My BP from Frozen to live mice. I Was Wondering What Size To Get Him, He Is A Little Over A Foot Maybe A Foot And A Half. I've Seen A Lot Of Owners Put These Little Cute Mice Into There BP's Tank, I Was Kinda Looking For Those, Because I Want to Be Assured Nothing Will Eat Him.

- i Know A Few Of You May Think It Inhumane To Feed A Snake A LIve Mouse, But That Mouse Is Either Gonna Die In A Freezer Or My Snakes Mouth.:snake:

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The same rules apply when picking an appropriately sized rodent for your snake whether it be f/t, prekilled, live or dipped in chocolate sauce. If you're scared about your snake getting hurt, maybe you shouldn't offer live - it's a calculated risk some keepers take.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

only at night? can you describe it more?

How about your set up We already know that it is a 27 gallon tank... what are you using to heat the tank, what are you using to measure temperatures? What are the current temperatures/humidity?

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Well Im Usually Not Home For Most Of The Day so I Wouldnt Know If He Does It Then, But It sounds Kind Of Like When Your Nose Is Stopped Up and It Makes That Squeak. For Heat i Use A Basking Lamp And At night A Heat Mat Stuck On The side Of The Cage. there Are Tempature Guages on The Side ( I Need To Get New Ones Cause These SUCK) But They Stay about 81 Degrees and i Havent been able to keep Up Humidity So Its about 45

Getting bitten doesn't hurt. Also, do you really HAVE to dangle the frozen rodent around? Have you tried just dropping it in there and seeing if it's eaten?

EDIT: Capital letters go at the beginning of a sentence and for proper nouns. Please use them this way, it makes your posts easier to read.

EDIT 2: You should just use the heat mat all the time. The lamp sucks out humidity and works the same as the UTH. Be sure to use a red/black bulb instead of a white one if you keep using the lamp.

You have some serious problems with your heating that has probably caused a respiratory infection. Your snake needs to go to a vet to have a culture done.

You need a hot side temperature of 88-92 degrees and a cool side temperature of 78-82 degrees.

You should not drop the temperature at night.

You should get an infrared het bulb that can be left on 24/7

http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...uctId=11147193

Is the heating pad being controlled by a thermostat? Why is it stuck to the side? heat travels upwards not sidewise... Heat mats do not change the air temperature in the cage so if the room the cage is in gets below 75 you will need to have a heat lamp running all the time.

You need to get a probed thermometer

Please read these 2 threads through very carefully, if your snake does have RI your husbandry needs to be prefect, otherwise your snakes chances of surviving aren't very good.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ius)-Caresheet

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...04#post1845904

Quote:

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Originally Posted by apple2

Getting bitten doesn't hurt. Also, do you really HAVE to dangle the frozen rodent around? Have you tried just dropping it in there and seeing if it's eaten?

EDIT: Capital letters go at the beginning of a sentence and for proper nouns. Please use them this way, it makes your posts easier to read.

EDIT 2: You should just use the heat mat all the time. The lamp sucks out humidity and works the same as the UTH. Be sure to use a red/black bulb instead of a white one if you keep using the lamp.

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Ive read that the blacl/red are for at night, can i use it along with the heat mat during the day? And no he wont eat it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by apple2

EDIT 2: You should just use the heat mat all the time. The lamp sucks out humidity and works the same as the UTH. Be sure to use a red/black bulb instead of a white one if you keep using the lamp.

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it isn't that simple, if the room temp is too low (below 75) an additional heat source will be necessary. UTH's are great, but in many cases are not a stand alone heat source.

Black and red bulbs are for at night if you have an animal that requires a day/night cycle. BPs don't need a day/night cycle, so you can use the night bulbs all the time.

EDIT: Yes, you can use the bulbs with the mat during the day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

You have some serious problems with your heating that has probably caused a respiratory infection. Your snake needs to go to a vet to have a culture done.

You need a hot side temperature of 88-92 degrees and a cool side temperature of 78-82 degrees.

You should not drop the temperature at night.

You should get an infrared het bulb that can be left on 24/7

http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...uctId=11147193

Is the heating pad being controlled by a thermostat? Why is it stuck to the side? heat travels upwards not sidewise... Heat mats do not change the air temperature in the cage so if the room the cage is in gets below 75 you will need to have a heat lamp running all the time.

You need to get a probed thermometer

Please read these 2 threads through very carefully, if your snake does have RI your husbandry needs to be prefect, otherwise your snakes chances of surviving aren't very good.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ius)-Caresheet

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...04#post1845904

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I bought The zoo Med under tank heater, and it didnt have a thermostat? If he does have an RI are there any other signs?

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Originally Posted by BP_Pascal

I bought The zoo Med under tank heater, and it didnt have a thermostat?

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Please read this thread... it explains everything

UTH's do not come with thermostats. But they must be regulated by one if not they can easily get hot enough to kill your snake.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...04#post1845904

Other signs of RI include:

Mucus
Elevation of the head
Bubbles in mouth/throat
Wheezing

Many cases of RI are caused by tank temperatures that are too low...

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

Something smells funny here....

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

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what Could You Possibly Be talking About?

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Originally Posted by mackynz

what Could You Possibly Be talking About?

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I think she was hinting that the OP could be trolling, ie "something fishy is going on here" maybe?

BP_Pascal, I feed mostly live, and for the most part, I don't see a problem at all with responsible keepers/breeders feeding live. To me, it sounds like you are a little bit afraid of your snake, so for that reason, I would suggest you stay on the F/T. If you don't want to reach your hand in to offer it a frozen mouse, I don't think you'll want to have to reach in to retrieve a live mouse that has not been eaten. And if you think your snake may be ill, get it to a vet.

Now....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

live rodents are as likely to do harm to your snake as the snake is to the rodent.

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Really???? How many photos/videos have you seen of balls eating mice and rats? If the rodent is just as likely to harm the snake, don't you think you would be seeing LOTS more photos and videos of that? Can it happen...sure, but let's not blow things out of proportion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daybreaker

I can't imagine feeding multiple mice per feeding for an adult BP.

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Why can you not imagine it? I've been feeding a girl mice only for 8 years...she's now over 2,500 grams and will hit 6-8 mice per feeding. It's just like feeding rats, only smaller ones and more of them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Feeding multiple little ones will not work for long what happens when your BP gets bigger? are you going to feed 10 rodents at a time? The snake won't even consider those food.

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It will work just fine...please read above.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by apple2

Also, do you really HAVE to dangle the frozen rodent around?

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Not unbelievable at all. As mentioned, I feed mostly live to all my snakes. Some of the ones that get offered frozen from time to time will not touch the food unless it's dangled in front of them.

Also...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by apple2

EDIT: Capital letters go at the beginning of a sentence and for proper nouns.

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If you insist on correcting peoples' usage of capitalization, please learn how to construct grammatically proper sentences first.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daybreaker

I think she was hinting that the OP could be trolling, ie "something fishy is going on here" maybe?

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I...yes. Hence my sporadic capitalization.:P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

Something smells funny here....

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

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I Would Have To Reach Into The cage

The horror.....the horror!

[why buy a pet you're afraid to get near?]

Heck...I'd crawl *in* with my snakes, if I could fit.

;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

BP_Pascal, I feed mostly live, and for the most part, I don't see a problem at all with responsible keepers/breeders feeding live. To me, it sounds like you are a little bit afraid of your snake, so for that reason, I would suggest you stay on the F/T. If you don't want to reach your hand in to offer it a frozen mouse, I don't think you'll want to have to reach in to retrieve a live mouse that has not been eaten. And if you think your snake may be ill, get it to a vet.

Now....



Really???? How many photos/videos have you seen of balls eating mice and rats? If the rodent is just as likely to harm the snake, don't you think you would be seeing LOTS more photos and videos of that? Can it happen...sure, but let's not blow things out of proportion.



Why can you not imagine it? I've been feeding a girl mice only for 8 years...she's now over 2,500 grams and will hit 6-8 mice per feeding. It's just like feeding rats, only smaller ones and more of them.



It will work just fine...please read above.



Not unbelievable at all. As mentioned, I feed mostly live to all my snakes. Some of the ones that get offered frozen from time to time will not touch the food unless it's dangled in front of them.

Also...



If you insist on correcting peoples' usage of capitalization, please learn how to construct grammatically proper sentences first.

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An especially feisty yet small mouse kicked my Fire male's butt one night and he went off feed for 4 months.

He just started eating again but I have to really restrain the mice for him.

It put a wicked slash mark across his eye but luckily, he was due for a shed.

The Bee also insists on live but is a vicious killer so he's in no peril.

In a perfect world, all of my snakes would eat F/T but I have those 'problem children' to contend with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

BP_Pascal, I feed mostly live, and for the most part, I don't see a problem at all with responsible keepers/breeders feeding live. To me, it sounds like you are a little bit afraid of your snake, so for that reason, I would suggest you stay on the F/T. If you don't want to reach your hand in to offer it a frozen mouse, I don't think you'll want to have to reach in to retrieve a live mouse that has not been eaten. And if you think your snake may be ill, get it to a vet.

Now....



Really???? How many photos/videos have you seen of balls eating mice and rats? If the rodent is just as likely to harm the snake, don't you think you would be seeing LOTS more photos and videos of that? Can it happen...sure, but let's not blow things out of proportion.



Why can you not imagine it? I've been feeding a girl mice only for 8 years...she's now over 2,500 grams and will hit 6-8 mice per feeding. It's just like feeding rats, only smaller ones and more of them.



It will work just fine...please read above.



Not unbelievable at all. As mentioned, I feed mostly live to all my snakes. Some of the ones that get offered frozen from time to time will not touch the food unless it's dangled in front of them.

Also...



If you insist on correcting peoples' usage of capitalization, please learn how to construct grammatically proper sentences first.

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I didn't say that rodents harm ball pythons all the time I said that they have the chances of harming each other (50%/50%)

Feeding a bunch of smaller prey is not only a pain, but going by what the OP is talking about (rodents so small that they cannot hurt the BP aka Rat pups) Do you really think that an adult BP will eat rat pups its entire life? I can see adult mice but not anything smaller, which once again is what the OP is talking about.

This whole thread is just a mess...
I just hope the OP has learned something from the caresheets and links and is being more proactive in its snakes husbandry.

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Originally Posted by mackynz

I...yes. Hence my sporadic capitalization.:P

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Aha :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

Why can you not imagine it? I've been feeding a girl mice only for 8 years...she's now over 2,500 grams and will hit 6-8 mice per feeding. It's just like feeding rats, only smaller ones and more of them.

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Because feeding one rat vs 2, 3, 4...8 mice per feeding doesn't make much sense to me unless you have a snake that just will not take rats. If that's the case I can sure understand it and would do that myself if need be. Though I think if the OP's snake has such a good feeding response as they've said I don't think switching would be a problem.

If you dont wanna buy hemostats then just dangle the rodent by holding it in your mouth. Thats What I Do And Ive Never Been Bit Before!

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

If you dont wanna buy hemostats then just dangle the rodent by holding it in your mouth. Thats What I Do And Ive Never Been Bit Before!

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LMAO

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

If you dont wanna buy hemostats then just dangle the rodent by holding it in your mouth. Thats What I Do And Ive Never Been Bit Before!

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:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[this certainly is shaping up to be quite a capital thread]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BP_Pascal

Yes Ive Heard Of How the Rodent can Harm The Snake , Thats Why I Was thinking Maybe multiple of the littler ones? and I Got Him a New Tank so I Would Have To Reach My Hand Inside To Feed Him, and Im not comfortable With That

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I feed live. There's nothing wrong with feeding live, as long as you follow some guidelines.

Make sure the prey is well fed and well hydrated. Place in opposite end of the enclosure from the snake to allow the snake to ambush hunt the prey.

Feeding multiple smaller ones is not ideal, because many will kill and eat one and then have no interest in any more after that, even if the prey is smaller than what they need.

If you're going to commit to live, then commit to also providing appropriately sized prey to your animal - otherwise, stick to f/t. Buy some long hemostats to offer the food so that you don't have to worry about sticking your hand in the tank.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by apple2

Getting bitten doesn't hurt. Also, do you really HAVE to dangle the frozen rodent around? Have you tried just dropping it in there and seeing if it's eaten?

EDIT: Capital letters go at the beginning of a sentence and for proper nouns. Please use them this way, it makes your posts easier to read.

EDIT 2: You should just use the heat mat all the time. The lamp sucks out humidity and works the same as the UTH. Be sure to use a red/black bulb instead of a white one if you keep using the lamp.

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He's typing in all caps, our software then converts it that way.

Thank You To Those Who Seem To Think Im An Idiot. I Would Like To Know What An OP Is? Obviously I am Fairly new To Owning A Ball Python, and I assure You That Before I Bought Him I Did Do My share Of studying, But You Always get Different oppinions. A sincere Thank You Goes To Those who Offered Good Advice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

I didn't say that rodents harm ball pythons all the time I said that they have the chances of harming each other (50%/50%)

Feeding a bunch of smaller prey is not only a pain, but going by what the OP is talking about (rodents so small that they cannot hurt the BP aka Rat pups) Do you really think that an adult BP will eat rat pups its entire life? I can see adult mice but not anything smaller, which once again is what the OP is talking about.

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It's less than 50/50 chance when done properly. Just saying! ;)

If it's a 50/50 chance then in over 15K live prey items I've fed off, I would have had 7500 injuries in my collection. I've had probably 5 insignificant scratches that you can actually see in all that time. That calculates out to .00033333% chance of injury. Far less than even 1% chance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BP_Pascal

Thank You To Those Who Seem To Think Im An Idiot. I Would Like To Know What An OP Is? Obviously I am Fairly new To Owning A Ball Python, and I assure You That Before I Bought Him I Did Do My share Of studying, But You Always get Different oppinions. A sincere Thank You Goes To Those who Offered Good Advice.

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It's unfortunate that sometimes members here start to mock someone new who's here to learn, since we're supposed to be here to help.

Unfortunately, some members have become jaded by new members that at times will refuse to take advice offered to them, after they've asked for that advice.

I would recommend that rather than post snarky posts, they bow out of the thread and let others who are willing to help, assist that member.

OP means Original Poster - so that would be you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BP_Pascal

Thank You To Those Who Seem To Think Im An Idiot. I Would Like To Know What An OP Is? Obviously I am Fairly new To Owning A Ball Python, and I assure You That Before I Bought Him I Did Do My share Of studying, But You Always get Different oppinions. A sincere Thank You Goes To Those who Offered Good Advice.

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Its not that people think your an idiot. The people on this forum are very passionate about these animals. It honestly seemed by your first few posts that you hadn't done any research at all (not saying you didn't, just seemed that way). I do know, as many others do, that there is a lot of bad information out there. Some of this info even comes from people that seem like they should know what they are doing.

My best advice is to throw away any advice you received anywhere else and listen to the people here trying to help. If some of them seem harsh just remember they are just concerned for your animal. They may not seem like they are being nice but some will hold your hand and others will tell you what's what and be on their way. Don't take offence to it, its just their way.

Heed their warnings and pay attention to their suggestions. It isn't every day you get info from such an experienced crowd. Everyone here is trying to help, even if it sounds like they are being mean with their suggestions. Sometimes its hard to remember how it was being ignorant in this hobby. Good luck to you and your snake, hope everything turns out great and you stick around to learn all you can...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

This isn't an obvious troll?

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Originally Posted by MrLang

This isn't an obvious troll?

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No.

I'm tempted to start censoring and infracting that word due to its severe overuse on here lately.

BP_Pascal,

Im sorry for being a wiseass but i mean come on dude, theres no reason to type out everything in capitals. It doesnt make your point come across any clearer, it actually makes it ALOT harder to read. (and makes you look like a goober lol). I also read capitals as SHOUTING so it comes off as kinda obnoxious.

As others have said feeding live is perfectly fine. If you really wanna convert it to live it shouldnt be a problem. I personally would start feeding it appropriately sized rats bc then when its an adult you only need to buy 1 rat for it. As RobNJ said its fine to keep it on mice and feed multiple mice per feeding; however, price wise the mice at my local pet store are like $2 a piece. So youre looking at like $12-$16 a week for one snake unless you breed your own which is a whole other ball game lol. I personally feed mine f/t just bc its more conveniently for me not to have to drive to the pet store every week and i can stock up. Plus f/t rodents tend to be cheaper.

As for being afraid of being bit by your bp, theres really no need to be afraid. The speed of it surprises you and scares you but it does not hurt at all. Ive only been bit once. I was lifting my normal girl outta her tank and she was just in a pissy mood and whipped around and tagged my arm. I saw her head jerk outta the corner of my eye but i thought she had just pulled her head back really fast. It wasnt until i noticed the pin drops of blood that i even realized she had bit me. As long as you dont smell like food then theres a very small chance she'll wanna bite you.

If you have any more questions or concerns feel free to post more or PM if you want. (with caps lock off though please haha). :D